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@keithprosser
The Creator doesn't poof things into existence, there is a methodical plan and design through a lengthly process. Why deny a Creator of apparent design in the process of executing the design??
What does un-designed look like?
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@EtrnlVw
V is asking by what criteria design is determined. Without something "un-designed" to compare suspected designed things to, there can be no legitimate declaration of design ...or a designer. In other words, Paley's watch can only be recognized as designed if the rock it is sitting on is not design.
2085 days later
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@FLRW
Good question dat.
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@zedvictor4
Yes, from post #1
Apparently the appearance of design proves the existence of a designer (god)Unfortunately the appearance of design must involve the appearance of non design as a counterpoint or it is meaningless.The claim of a designer of everything is a claim that nothing can appear designed.In that paradigm design can only mean exist and that makes the word design meaningless.
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@zedvictor4
Apparently the appearance of design proves the existence of a designer (god)
Although it is undoubtedly true that God exists and that He is a designer, I am doubtful that the mere appearance of design proves God exists. Even if such a design existence obviously proves that a designer must exist.
Unfortunately the appearance of design must involve the appearance of non-design as a counterpoint or it is meaningless.
It might be helpful if the proponent of this might explain why it must be true. Meaning is not ALWAYS derived by the absence or the opposite of a particular thing. Yes, sometimes it's helpful. For example, the absence of heat is cold. Or the absence of good is evil. The burden of proof is here on the asserter.
The claim of a designer of everything is a claim that nothing can appear designed.
What does that this even mean? who says that? I think some things look designed and some things don't. when we walk into an art museum, some art is more natural than others. Some is better presented than others. Yet, all of the art is designed by an artist.
In that paradigm design can only mean exist and that makes the word design meaningless.
You need to prove such an assertion. I don't think that design means just "exist". It means that everything that exists has purpose. And that's quite different to mere existence.
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@Tradesecret
Well Trade, nice to hear from you again.
So:
I am as doubtful as you are doubtless.
And design is a word with quite a specific meaning.
Whereby B was intentionally planned by A.
And for sure, I don't think that complexity of structure necessarily requires intentional planning by a designer.
Stalemate as ever.
Regards.
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@zedvictor4
Design might have a specific meaning. Does non-design? Is non-design for instance the opposite of design?
Design - "the process of envisioning and planning the creation of objects, interactive systems, buildings, vehicles, etc."
What is one example of something that is not designed? Would that be something natural? Whatever that might be? And how would we know?
In a system where God designed and then created, it is ipso facto, a system where everything MUST be designed. Everything must have a purpose or it wouldn't be there. Think of a Minecraft world where some kid designs it. Nothing can enter that Minecraft world without permission from the kid. Things can't randomly occur unless the programming has been set to do that - and even then - it requires the designer of the program to purposely enable that to occur.
Interestingly, the only thing that is in and outside of God's system that is not designed is God himself. Not that God doesn't have a purpose. But that God is not designed since he is from everlasting to everlasting.
But the point of this topic seems to have not considered what the actual definition of "non-design" might look like. It does create an interesting dilemma. Too bad it doesn't actually achieve anything except more dilemmas.
Nice to talk to you to Zed.
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@Tradesecret
For sure, GOD itself is a representative word.
So we could also say that GOD and NON-GOD are the same as design and non-design.
And also not achieve anything.
Hmmmmmm, hang on a mo.
When is an outcome not an achievement?
Tradesecret wrote:Design - "the process of envisioning and planning the creation of objects, interactive systems, buildings, vehicles, etc."
This will be a definition taken from "just any old dictionary" and from which definitions you do not accept, will it?
Marvellous how you will accept "man's definitions" when it suites you.
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@zedvictor4
For sure, GOD itself is a representative word.
Certainly God is used often as a representative word. But not only.
So we could also say that GOD and NON-GOD are the same as design and non-design.
Okay, if you think so. Except God is not designed and his creation is. Hmmm. Interesting. Anything that is designed is therefore NOT GOD.
Perhaps you will prove the existence of God yet???
And also not achieve anything.
Well not quite. You seem to be on a roll. Keep going.
Hmmmmmm, hang on a mo.When is an outcome not an achievement?
Yeah, not sure of this non-sequitur. But please enlighten us.
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@Tradesecret
How on Earth could you know that GODs are not designed?
Nonetheless, within the very brief context of the past few thousand years and the even briefer context of our conditioned existences.
I know that we can do nothing, other than speculate about a beginning.
Though I accept your faith for what it is and what it has become.
Have an nice day Trade.
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@zedvictor4
How on Earth could you know that GODs are not designed?
That { ex occupied space Universe } which exists eternally, cannot be designed. See the logic of that Zed.
Un-deigned really is most closely related/associated with the concept of that which is not possible to exist.
Ex there cannot exist more than five, regular/symmetrical and convex polyhedra of Universe, and since that is an eternal/absolute cosmic truth/principle, it cannot be un-designed. It can always be discovered by any creature with access to Meta-space mind/intellect/concept.
Ex there cannot exist more than five, regular/symmetrical and convex polyhedra of Universe, and since that is an eternal/absolute cosmic truth/principle, it cannot be un-designed. It can always be discovered by any creature with access to Meta-space mind/intellect/concept.
This is Fuller states that humans do not really create or invent anything, they just discover what is possible ergo, what is possible to be designed, and what is not, sometimes.
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@ebuc
I get that.
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@zedvictor4
You have a good mind Zed
Apparently the appearance of design proves the existence of a designer (god)Unfortunately the appearance of design must involve the appearance of non design as a counterpoint or it is meaningless.The claim of a designer of everything is a claim that nothing can appear designed.In that paradigm design can only mean exist and that makes the word design meaningless.
TTTMTTFWTINKM
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@ebuc
That { ex occupied space Universe } which exists eternally, cannot be designed. See the logic of that Zed.
BINGO
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@3RU7AL
BINGO
Glad three of us are on the same page there.
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@zedvictor4
How on Earth could you know that GODs are not designed?
How on earth could you not know?
The Bible indicates God is from everlasting. Eternal. Never a time before and never a time after. Hence, no time to design.
Nonetheless, within the very brief context of the past few thousand years and the even briefer context of our conditioned existences.I know that we can do nothing, other than speculate about a beginning.Though I accept your faith for what it is and what it has become.
I'm not speculating about a beginning. Beginning may well pre-suppose a design. God didn't have a beginning. Hence, no design.
Have an nice day Trade.
Thank you kindly. I hope you have a nice day too Zed.
I like picturing God placing his creations on the board.
Like a white bear a black and white bear and a brown. These thing you have to place in the correct position.
But what about god creating metors.
He builds these big like metal rock things and thinks , hummmmmm where to put these little beauties. Then he goes, oh i no. I'll put them up in air and have them Zoooooooooooom around at break neck speeds.
Buttttttttt.
To do this , you hold it above your head then wait .
( and release it )
NOW.
No, that was a bad release, that would of smash into something in 1825 years. S
Soooooo , he hold back on to it.
And releases it .
4
3
2
1
NOW. And zooooommmmm of it goes.
He did stuff up once when he wiped out half of his animals when that one struck earth.
God would of loveeedddddd his dino range of animals.
He wouldn't of wanted them wiped out by one of his BIG floating rocks.
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@Tradesecret
True.
The Bible was designed by men, and contained mythicised accounts of people, places and a hypothetical GOD man.
So in that context, a hypothetical character could potentially everlast.
Depends upon whether or not we are able to escape this solar realm before the MIGHTY SUNGOD consumes us.
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@zedvictor4
Hi zee.
All hail SUNGOD.
But , yeah.
Imagine being a sungod ummm follower if you will.
And having the knowledge of knowing the sun won't last forever.
You'd have to make a further lie up to tell yourself to combat that shit.
Good day.
I also wanna say.
A natural occurrence.
I don't know why. I was th8nking un-design.
1000 YEARS of weather, un design
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@Deb-8-a-bull
Hi Deb.
Yep, all that vitamin D.
Though we only need worry for a lifetime.
Which of course may be foreshortened by melanoma if we over-worship.
Good SUN, Evil SUN.
True sun god followers should move to the north pole.
Norway , the sun doesn't set between April 20 and August.
The sun god "appears" to work in mysterious ways.
Inventing the umbrella to keep rain from falling on you.
Buttttttttt.
It then is used for keeping sun of you.
That would of blown the inventors mind.
Un design
Side effects.
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@Deb-8-a-bull
Brown and wrinkly.
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@zedvictor4
Hey Zed.
You know how allllllll gods loveeeeee circumcised cocks ?
Your answer is . ( OH THEY SO fucking DO DEB. )
Soooo
Ya think he would of made men be born with circumcised willys.
Thusssss.
Foreskin = un-designed.
Bringing us back to the original post.
And it asks,... What dose "un designed" look like ?
A FORESKIN.
un - design looks like a foreskin.
Thank you.
Thanks.
Move along.
You do know what they do with alllll the forskin the chop off hey .?
Whats that you say. ?
Correct again Zee.
They sell it to homosexuals as ( chewing gum )
But thats Designed.
The way god made / ( DESIGNED Adam and Eve makes ya wonder how he made other stuff.
Example.
To make Zebras he rubbed rocks and green tree leaves together.
( commensense )
Giraffes are made with, one grapefruit and salt water.
Shit like that.
Welll, it makes more sense then god ( POOFING ) things into existence.
Anddddd it aligns up with what WE KNOW on how he did the Adam dude and the Eve chick.
Sooooo design is , dirt and water, and ribs and shit.
ORRRRRR, DOES IT ?
His a funny guy that god.
Now im gonna come right out and say it.
Ya ready?
He works in mysterious ways does god.
Yep.
He sureeeee does.
FULL FUCKING STOP
I was gonna make a post saying that.
Mum and Dad " designed " me .
Then i was going to elaborate on that ,
Buttttt,
I don't wanna talk about that shit.
What cant you understand about that.
i said i just dont realy want to talk about it.
For fuck sake guys .
STOP IT.
LEAVE IT ALONE RIGHT.,
End of story.
So Again.
Lets move the fuck along.
Im now putting all you guys on report.
Talking about me mum like that.
I won't have it.
Design
Nooooo,
I can't get it out of my head now.
Im now picturing my mum and dad in the act of ( designing me. )
Cue the music.
Im picturing my dad kneling down and rubbing his hand on the ground to losen up some dirt .
Yeah , and then
My mum just standing there with a bottle of water.
and just adding a little drop every now and then.
Sooooo friggen dirty.
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@Deb-8-a-bull
You're a genius Deb.
And Women might argue that child birth might have been designed with a little more thought.
Though we are talking misogyny here.
And I often wondered why the urinary tract was not plumbed into the rectum rather than the reproductive pipework.
Perhaps something to do with chemistry?
And man boobs?
Forward planning I suppose.
Transition and ladyboys and all that.
Do you think that Gabriel was a ladyboy.
Perhaps it was actually spelled Gabrielle.
Naughty GOD.
Now we know why he designed lingerie.