Who’s worse: Trump or Desantis?

Author: Double_R

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@Greyparrot
There is a clear difference. Who is objectively attempting to make the country more radical?
Its going to take radical changes for humanity to survive beyond the next 200 years, or less.

Trumpet's ' fake ' electors, or is it the change that to  ' alternative '  electors, ---in the Arizona emails--- that is the  radical ' alternatives ' aka USA insurrectionist take-over to stop valid elections.  

Orange-grey-parrot is a breaking-bad joke pretending, to offer some pseudo-logical common sense  in defending an  insurrectionist ending to fair and free democracy  in our constititutional republic. 

Wrong pathway from wrong-headed-ness.  


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@Novice_II
I think the Democratic party is much more corrupt as well. We saw this with the Russian collusion conspiracy theory spread by them just 5 years ago when Trump took office.
Trump’s campaign chairman gave their internal polling data to the Russians.

Trump’s son took a meeting with someone who represented themselves as working “on behalf of Russia and its government’s support for Mr. Trump”. When they told him they had dirt on Hillary his reply was “if it’s what you say, I love it”.

The day that meeting was scheduled to take place Trump said he would have a major announcement on the Clintons. As we now know, the meeting turned out to be a dud and coincidentally, Trump never made his blockbuster announcement.

Almost every high ranking member of the Trump campaign had multiple contacts with Russians. Almost none of those contacts were disclosed.

Trump met with Putin one on one with no Americans in the room other than a translator. Trump then personally took the translator’s notes and destroyed them. No president in our lifetimes has ever done that.

Those are just a few incontestable facts off the top of my head, there are so much more.

No one is claiming that the Trump campaign and the Russian government were having daily zoom meetings to organize their agenda. The facts indisputably show that Russia interfered with the 2016 election, the Trump campaign welcomed that help, and to some extent they organized their campaign around the help Russia was providing.

There is nothing corrupt or dishonest about acknowledging this and reasonably speculating as to how far it went.
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@Greyparrot
Well, I would say the Democrats are worse
Then you don’t live in reality. Of the two parties only one actually cares about democracy while the other is overtly hostile to it. No one with an IQ above room temperature would confuse which party is which.
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@Double_R
Then you don’t live in reality. Of the two parties only one actually cares about democracy while the other is overtly hostile to it. No one with an IQ above room temperature would confuse which party is which.
both parties serve our corporate oligarchy

neither side has any identifiable "principles"
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@Double_R
The facts indisputably show that Russia interfered with the 2016 election
11 Trump associates have now been charged with crimes. 11!

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@Greyparrot
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@Double_R
The facts indisputably show that Russia interfered with the 2016 election, the Trump campaign welcomed that help, and to some extent they organized their campaign around the help Russia was providing.

There is nothing corrupt or dishonest about acknowledging this and reasonably speculating as to how far it went.
That’s not what Saint Mueller said.

The special counsel found that Russia did interfere with the election, but “did not find that the Trump campaign, or anyone associated with it, conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in these efforts, despite multiple efforts from Russian-affiliated individuals to assist the Trump campaign.”

So you calling Bob Mueller a liar?
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@Double_R
Of the two parties only one actually cares about democracy while the other is overtly hostile to it. No one with an IQ above room temperature would confuse which party is which.
How is paying millions of dollars to destroy the opposition by getting radicals on the opposition voting ticket "caring about democracy?

Even CNN says this is evil.
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@thett3
Perhaps the US boned. It’s not guaranteed; but to debone itself politics, and peoples approach to politics must stop being about winning at all costs, that beating the other guys to achieve power is the ultimate purpose of all elections, and remove the opportunistic populism in politician discourse and replace it with a focus not on who is out to hurt or destroy you, but how to best use (or not use) government to make peoples lives better.

The problem is with the outrageous populism on the right - is that it poisons the discussion on both sides, and shifts the left to needing to beat republicans at all costs too; which has its own problems.

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@Greyparrot
How is paying millions of dollars to destroy the opposition by getting radicals on the opposition voting ticket "caring about democracy?

Even CNN says this is evil.
RCV FTW
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@Double_R
The gist of your post to summarize, and I’ll use an analogy here, is that Trump carried the Republican Party about 70% of the way before being stifled by his own incompetence, so now a capable fascistic leader just needs to carry the party the other 30%, give or take. The problem I see is that much of that 70% collapses without Trump.
I disagree.

Trumps achievement was the extreme radicalization of the Republican base. To such an extreme that they will support almost anything.

They are not going to magically become reasonable if trump disappears; and given that they are large enough that to become elected, not being an extreme radical is often detrimental to the election prospects of politicians on the right wing. 

Without Trump - what is required is simply someone to opportunistically exploit and extend that extremism.
Danielle
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@Greyparrot
The Democratic Party establishment is the problem.

Can you one thing the Republican Party is doing to radically transform this country aside from the call to erode privacy rights?

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@Greyparrot
I think the left is so fucked up with the crazy fringe people

"I'm sick of the party of crazy fringe people!" - the party of Marjorie Taylor Greene (self professed Christian nationalist), Lauren Boebart, Elise Stefanik, Jim Jordan, and Matt Gaetz et. al. 

I'm curious: what exactly do you consider crazy fringe ideas? 

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@Danielle
Can you one thing the Republican Party is doing to radically transform this country aside from the call to erode privacy rights?
Nope cause they don't do anything even when they get Congressional power. Patriot act was very bad but that was long ago.

If you can't get a coalition to reduce government power, electing retarded Republicans that won't expand government power as much is the next best worst option.
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@Danielle
I'm curious: what exactly do you consider crazy fringe ideas? 

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Trumps achievement was the extreme radicalization of the Republican base. To such an extreme that they will support almost anything.

I agree. Liberals (the media, late night television, fellow Democrat politicians and the majority of Democrat voters) are admonishing Biden, while most Republicans would still  literally eat shit if Trump told them it would upset the left... and this is even after he tried to defraud the United States, meddle in elections, and disrupt the peaceful transfer of power while publicly mocking his VP as a pussy for not doing it lol. The Republican response has been "Haha it's not a big deal - nobody cares!" as if that is somehow some kind of really deep dig at liberals (their #1 goal in life) and not a really sad and scary state of government and politics in a country that is supposedly  Leader of the Free World. 

Danielle
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@Greyparrot
I'm not watching your videos and giving revenue to whatever batshit crazy channels you follow. 
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Answer to the OP: DeSantis is a bigger threat than Trump because DeSantis can win a general election (easily, in my opinion).  
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@Danielle
So not that curious. Noted
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@Greyparrot
True
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@Danielle
I agree. Liberals (the media, late night television, fellow Democrat politicians and the majority of Democrat voters) are admonishing Biden
What if Biden isn't really a liberal?
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I like them both, especially Desantis. He saved Florida from the destruction that so many other states suffered during the fear mongering Covid BS. Told all the would be tyrants to go fuck themselves. I like that.
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@ILikePie5
The facts indisputably show that Russia interfered with the 2016 election, the Trump campaign welcomed that help, and to some extent they organized their campaign around the help Russia was providing.

There is nothing corrupt or dishonest about acknowledging this and reasonably speculating as to how far it went.
That’s not what Saint Mueller said.

The special counsel found that Russia did interfere with the election, but “did not find that the Trump campaign, or anyone associated with it, conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in these efforts, despite multiple efforts from Russian-affiliated individuals to assist the Trump campaign.”

So you calling Bob Mueller a liar?
No, because nothing Mueller said contradicts anything I said.

First all, “did not find” evidence does not = “we found evidence of innocence”.

Second, Trump never spoke to Mueller because he refused. Apparently when you’re the president the law doesn’t apply to you.

Third, when Trump practiced his testimony with his own attorneys they told him if he testified he’d end up in an Orange jumpsuit. Again; his attorneys.

Regarding what we both said, both statements affirm that Russia interfere in our election.

Welcoming help from a foreign adversary is not conspiracy.

Organizing your campaign around what you anticipate a foreign adversary is going to do is not conspiracy.

So once again, you’ve taken the intentionally high standard of beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law and are applying it to a conversation based in the court of public opinion. When you have no defense against the facts, this is what you have to stoop to.
Danielle
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@Greyparrot
Nope cause they don't do anything even when they get Congressional power. Patriot act was very bad but that was long ago.

Well they politically maneuvered to make sure they appointed judges to overturn Roe v Wade (priorities!) which was supposedly "settled law" that is supported by most of the country.  And conservatives will have a majority on the SCOTUS for years to come, so there will probably be some big changes in store regardless of what Republicans are able to do Congress. The Court's recent ruling that made federal agencies impotent to regulate going forward is pretty huge. 

So far the GOP has been able to maintain some semblance of power even when they're in a Congressional minority, especially with the filibuster. But power doesn't equal helping the working class. I agree they haven't done anything to that end even when they have a majority because that's not their goal. Their goal is to stay in power by cozying up to rich people who bank roll their campaigns, while they highlight and catastrophize culture war issues to distract voters from the fact that they've never actually done anything to improve people's lives - especially poor people in rural states. That's why those folks are so obsessed with their guns. "Come and take it over my dead body!" Yeah cuz that's all you have are your guns, Earl. Too bad you don't have a 401 K or any savings. 



If you can't get a coalition to reduce government power, electing retarded Republicans that won't expand government power as much is the next best worst option.
Right so then what is the appeal of Donald Trump? He's a police state enthusiast which no champion of liberty would celebrate, and he doesn't call for less regulating and less spending. On the contrary, he cut taxes while calling for more spending; he supports the government regulating markets antithetical to capitalism and more in line with Bernie Sanders' protectionist trade policies; and he celebrated the pandemic stimulus checks while fighting with Mitch McConnell because Trump wanted MORE money printed and added to circulation.  Crickets on Trump's role in that from the "omg inflation" crowd since they took his side over Establishment Mitch and the results were disastrous.

The only way Trump fights the Establishment is by attacking his critics via firing, or endorsing rival loyalists against detractors in their primaries. As you know he didn't reduce government in any way, shape or form and grew it instead. 

Actually I can think of one thing he did to shrink government which was to fight the renewal of the Patriot Act, but that's only because he thought it was being weaponized against him lol. He'd be  thrilled if the FBI promised to only spy on Muslims and blacks. 
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@Danielle
As you know he didn't reduce government in any way, shape or form and grew it instead. 

That's not at all what I said... I'll copy and paste it for you in case you got the skimmies today.

If you can't get a coalition to reduce government power, electing retarded Republicans that won't expand government power as much is the next best worst option.
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@Greyparrot
I never suggested that my statement was a reply to you. I  made that remark all on my own to remind you of  yet another reason why Trump is not advancing any value that you claim to care about.

Of course I wouldn't expect you to bemoan Trump for that, because some trans person somewhere that you'll never interact with in your entire life wants to pee behind a closed bathroom stall for privacy. That really gets your long johns in a bunch so you'll embrace Trump since you have to and I get it. We can't have some young girl washing her hands next to a tranny in the ladies room. Imagine if they make eye contact?! I shudder at the thought. What's next, a 5 year old learns that his friend Tommy has two moms?!  NO MA'AM, NOT ON OUR WATCH! #SaveOurKids 
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@Danielle
the next best worst option.
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@Greyparrot
@Double_R
No, because nothing Mueller said contradicts anything I said.

First all, “did not find” evidence does not = “we found evidence of innocence”.
In this nation, you are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, and Mueller didnt think he had enough evidence to convict. Cope.

Second, Trump never spoke to Mueller because he refused. Apparently when you’re the president the law doesn’t apply to you.
Apparently the President doesn’t have a 5th Amendment right according to you.

Third, when Trump practiced his testimony with his own attorneys they told him if he testified he’d end up in an Orange jumpsuit. Again; his attorneys.
5th Amendment right. Irrelevant 

Regarding what we both said, both statements affirm that Russia interfere in our election.
No one denies this.

Welcoming help from a foreign adversary is not conspiracy.
So what’s your point

Organizing your campaign around what you anticipate a foreign adversary is going to do is not conspiracy.
So what’s your point

So once again, you’ve taken the intentionally high standard of beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law and are applying it to a conversation based in the court of public opinion. When you have no defense against the facts, this is what you have to stoop to.
Court of public opinion only matters for a month. Court of law matters or the rest of your life. No one talks about Russian Russia Russia anymore except hard core progressive left wingers on the Internet like you
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@ILikePie5
"6 years of the walls closing in."

Brought to you by a party led by the son of a used auto salesman.
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@Greyparrot
New York rich white liberals never have to travel in high crimes areas. If they did, they’d know their cities are absolutely fucked
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@Ramshutu
They are not going to magically become reasonable if trump disappears; and given that they are large enough that to become elected, not being an extreme radical is often detrimental to the election prospects of politicians on the right wing. 
I'm not suggesting they will become reasonable, I'm saying Desantis will not have the ability to convince them that the sky is green the way Trump has. The thing about Trump is that they love him because he's one of them. He's a complete buffoon and an ignoramous, so when he says something stupid he gets away with it because that's already his brand and because he gives them validation. No other politician can pull that off. Desantis is too intelligent, so the level of stupidity that has to be achieved for him would come off as fake and disingenuous, the very thing Trump supporters love about him and the reason they let him get away with literally anything.

This isn't just a Desantis thing. Look around, every politician that tries to act like Trump comes off the same way, and none of them can gain any national appeal. Desantis is the closest thing, but his brand is still completely different.

So again, I'm not saying they won't vote for him, I'm just saying that he won't have the same kind of pscophantic support Trump did, which will be needed to accomplish what Trump couldn't.