How to explain real Christianity, to non-belivers.

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@ludofl3x

So if he's all powerful and all knowing, how did he fail at this goal? I mean if he can't be surprised, he'd have known that he'd view every one of his beloved creatures as disgusting filth worthy of eternal unspeakable torture.

Because he gave us free will. And we decided to do that.

THen we can agree this love is in fact CONDITIONAL, right? And if we can't believe in him the way he wants, why doesn't he provide some substantiation that he's there, that he does love us, do you think?

It's unconditional, because his love for us will never disappear, even if we are in hell.

He loves us, but can't be with us because of our sin.

So where did they go? According to the bible, I mean. Purgatory isn't in the bible, it was invented by Roman Catholicism, in response to this very problem, and is still subject to debate today. Not all Christians believe in it, specifically, Protestants largely reject the purgatory idea entirely. So, let's just use the bible, otherwise you'll end up having to explain why one tradition's addition to the bible is wrong, and others aren't. So, according to the bible ONLY, where do people who don't go to heaven end up? Where did, for example, the Native Americans end up? The ones who died through 1491.

I'll have to ask God, when I get to heaven. But purgatory, is a good explanation for it.

2 Maccabees 12:41–46, 2 Timothy 1:18, Matthew 12:32, Luke 23:43, 1 Corinthians 3:11–3:15 and Hebrews 12:29

All examples of purgatory.

#182

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@YouFound_Lxam

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YouFound_Lxam,

YOUR QUOTE THAT WENT NOWHERE IN YOUR POST #178!: "I believe that God is clear in Scripture that He welcomes into heaven each baby who dies, born or unborn (Ps 139). And this extends to young children and the mentally disabled who die before they are able to understand salvation. God is not silent on this question."

You erroneously stated that your quote above relates to Pslam 139, WRONG, BIBLE FOOL!!!

Psalm 139

1 You have searched me, Lord,

and you know me.

2 You know when I sit and when I rise;
    you perceive my thoughts from afar.
3 You discern my going out and my lying down;
    you are familiar with all my ways.
4 Before a word is on my tongue
    you, Lord, know it completely.
5 You hem me in behind and before,
    and you lay your hand upon me.
6 Such knowledge is too wonderful for me,
    too lofty for me to attain.

7 Where can I go from your Spirit?

Where can I flee from your presence?

8 If I go up to the heavens, you are there;

if I make my bed in the depths, you are there.

9 If I rise on the wings of the dawn,

if I settle on the far side of the sea,

10 even there your hand will guide me,
    your right hand will hold me fast.
11 If I say, “Surely the darkness will hide me
    and the light become night around me,”
12 even the darkness will not be dark to you;
    the night will shine like the day,
    for darkness is as light to you.

13 For you created my inmost being;
    you knit me together in my mother’s womb.
14 I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
    your works are wonderful,
    I know that full well.
15 My frame was not hidden from you
    when I was made in the secret place,
    when I was woven together in the depths of the earth.
16 Your eyes saw my unformed body;
    all the days ordained for me were written in your book
    before one of them came to be.
17 How precious to me are your thoughts, God!
    How vast is the sum of them!
18 Were I to count them,
    they would outnumber the grains of sand—
    when I awake, I am still with you.

19 If only you, God, would slay the wicked!
    Away from me, you who are bloodthirsty!
20 They speak of you with evil intent;
    your adversaries misuse your name.
21 Do I not hate those who hate you, Lord,
    and abhor those who are in rebellion against you?
22 I have nothing but hatred for them;
    I count them my enemies.
23 Search me, God, and know my heart;
    test me and know my anxious thoughts.
24 See if there is any offensive way in me,
    and lead me in the way everlasting.

Seriously, just how much Bible embarrassment are you willing to take within this Religion Forum?

WHAT JESUS' INSPIRED WORDS (1 THESSALONIANS 3:13) THOUGHT ABOUT BABIES:

"Happy the man who shall seize and smash your little ones against the rock!" (Psalms 137:9)

“Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished.” (Isaiah 13:16)

“Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.” (Hosea 13:16)

JESUS AS GOD SAID: "I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’” (1 Samuel 15:2-3)

YouFound_Lxam, do you tell your friends and family that Jesus is a serial killer BABY KILLER as shown above, barring of course where Jesus as God murdered many innocent zygotes, fetus' and babies in His Great Flood!

NEXT PSEUDO-CHRISTIAN LIKE "YOUFOUND_LXAM" THAT HAS TO RUN AWAY FROM JESUS' TRUE WORDS REGARDING HIM KILLING BABIES, WILL BE ... ?

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#183

ludofl3x

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ludofl3x

02.03.2023 04:54PM

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@YouFound_Lxam

Because he gave us free will. And we decided to do that.

Oh, okay...so god didn't know what would happen, then. But...I thought he knew everything, couldn't be surprised?

He loves us, but can't be with us because of our sin.

Curious...so there's something beyond god's capabilities! Wait, but that would make him less than all powerful....

But purgatory, is a good explanation for it.

Well, it's not really an explanation as much as it is a compromise made by the RCC because people were mad that their unbaptized babies that died, a rather common occurrence at the time, were condemned to hell, and the RCC was likely losing customers. THough it isn't in the bible, people were more comfortable with this idea than they were of a 2 day old baby roasting on a spit turned by demons for something that they didn't do. Again...research!

2Maccabees: doesn't mention purgatory. Rather it's about gathering the spoils of war and burying the dead, then making memorial offerings on their behalf. Where are you getting purgatory as a biblical idea from this?

2 Timothy 1:18:

may the Lord grant him to find mercy from the Lord on that day! —and you well know all the service he rendered at Ephesus.

Seems a bit of a stretch to say this is an example of purgatory in the bible. Are you reading these before you're posting them?

Matthew 12 :32

32:Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

Again, how is purgatory in here? Maybe it's in Luke 23:43?

43 And Jesus said unto him,Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. 43 And he said to him, "Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise." 43 And Jesus replied, “I assure you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

Hmmm....

1 corinthians 3:11-15?

11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.

Uh....

And the real kicker, Hebrews 12:29:

29 for our “God is a consuming fire.”[a]

Can you help me understand why you think purgatory is somewhere in these verses, and not, as I have explained after researching it, a post-biblical man-made addition only to certain traditions and never in the text? Not to mention why Protestants largely don't agree that it's there?

#184

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02.03.2023 08:34PM

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@YouFound_Lxam

I am claiming that there is one reality, and one truth.

Which is what , exactly?

That there is one God. And he loves us.

Does he love us unconditionally?

Yes.
Then you need to re-read your scripture.
Do we not have to believe in him as a condition of his love and entry into heaven? And what about fearing him? Is this not also a condition?

We have to believe in him, in order to enter the kingdom of heaven.

Then it is not unconditional is it?

I could go into the fear of God, in a whole other forum because it is a big topic to discuss.

Why must we fear him?

#185

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@ludofl3x

->@YouFound_Lxam
As for little children, the bible is clear about how baby's, young children, and some of the truly mentally disabled people will enter the kingdom of heaven.
If the bible is clear, why are you citing someone's blog?

Because like all devout Christians, ludo, they make it up on the hoof once they have painted themselves into a corner.

#186

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02.03.2023 11:30PM

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That's right the God of the Jews sends all the Jews to hell which doesn't even exist in the Old Testament.

#187

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Jesus did not think he was God (and he was a Jew), does that mean he went to hell?

John 7:16 Jesus answered them and said, "My doctrine is not Mine, but His who sent Me."

John 14:24 "He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word
which you hear is not Mine but the Father's who sent Me".

John 12:49 "For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who
sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak."

John 4:34 Jesus said to them, "My food is to do the will of him who sent
me, and to accomplish his work.

John 6:38 "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but
the will of Him who sent Me.

Luke 22:42 saying, "Father, if it is Your will, take this cup away from Me;
nevertheless not My will, but Yours, be done."\

John 5:30 "I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment
is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the
Father who sent Me.

John 8:42 Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me,
for I proceeded and came forth from God; I came not of my own accord,
but he sent me.

Mark 13:32 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in
heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

Matthew 24:36 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of
heaven, but My Father only.

Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the
kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

Mark 10:18 And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good
but God alone.

John 8:50 "And I do not seek My own glory; there is One who seeks and judges.

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#188

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02.04.2023 04:11PM

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@Sidewalker

God is a triune God.

Jesus was fully man, and fully God.

It's hard to explain, but think about it like this:

You have a body, right? And you have a brain.

Now your brain has a logical side to it, and an emotional side to it. That's why the phrase, facts don't care about your feelings is so true, because your emotions don't line up with your logic all the time.

So, let's say you die.

Your body is still present.

Your brain is still present.

But something must have left because otherwise, you would be alive.

You yourself are a triune entity, because you have a brain, a body, and a spirit.

You have three different aspects to yourself, but you are still one person. One human.

That's the best way that I can explain God to you.

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#189

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02.04.2023 04:36PM

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@Stephen

Then it is not unconditional is it?

It is unconditional. The act of stopping someone from entering heaven, does not mean that God does not love us. Like I said before, he even loves the people who are in hell.

Why must we fear him?

The fear of God is not being scared of him. It is understanding his strength and respecting it.

#190

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POLYTHEIST-WITCH, the ignorant Bible fool,

YOUR BIBLE STUPIDITY IN FRONT OF THE MEMBERSHIP QUOTE: "That's right the God of the Jews sends all the Jews to hell which doesn't even exist in the Old Testament."

Hey, dumbfounded of the Bible Witch, HELL does exist in the Old Testament at your embarrassment again in being totally ignorant of the Bible! LOL!

"Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. (Isaiah 14:15)

"Though they dig into hell, thence shall mine hand take them; though they climb up to heaven, thence will I bring them down:" (Amos 9:2 KJV)

QUESTION, when are you going to give us a break from your outright Bible stupidity?

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#191

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@Sidewalker

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Sidewalker,

YOUR BIBLE IGNORANT QUOTE: "Jesus did not think he was God (and he was a Jew), does that mean he went to hell?"

Yes, Jesus was a Jew, and in the following Jesus inspired passage, He says He is the serial killer Yahweh GOD incarnate!

"Jesus answered: "Don"t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? ANYONE WHO HAS SEEN ME HAS SEEN THE FATHER. How can you say, "Show us the Father"? (John 14: 9)

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#192

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@YouFound_Lxam

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YouFound_Lxam,

YOUR OXYMORONIC QUOTE OF JESUS LOVING THE CREATION THAT HE SENT TO HELL AND TORTURE FOR ETERNITY: "It is unconditional. The act of stopping someone from entering heaven, does not mean that God does not love us. Like I said before, he even loves the people who are in hell."

"The Lord your God is in your midst, a mighty one who will save; he will rejoice over you with gladness; he will quiet you by his love; he will exult over you with loud singing." (Zephaniah 3:17)

As shown in the above verse, how can Jesus as the ONE GOD in the passage above, literally quiet one as they are being tortured for eternity in the lakes of sulfur and fire in Hell? "But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.” (Revelation 21:8)

YOUR ANSWER TO THE ABOVE BIBLE NOTION IS:

YouFound_Lxam, since you are not even trying to defend your faith as Jesus tells you to do in Titus 1:9 and 2 Corinthians 10:5, then you are going directly to Hell as this Jesus inspired passage so states: "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.” (John 3:36). GET IT?

Therefore, when you don't even TRY to defend Christianity, your posts are all for naught, because the wrath of Jesus as God remains upon you as He sends you to HELL upon your demise!!!

NEXT PSEUDO-CHRISTIAN LIKE "YOUFOUND_LXAM" THAT DOES NOT FOLLOW JESUS' DIRECT WORDS, AND IS GOING TO HELL BECAUSE OF IT, WILL BE ... ?

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#193

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@ludofl3x

Oh, okay...so god didn't know what would happen, then. But...I thought he knew everything, couldn't be surprised?

He did, but stopping us from making that mistake, would be taking away our free will.

Curious...so there's something beyond god's capabilities! Wait, but that would make him less than all powerful....

No, he could but it would contradict his own teachings. If he was in the presence of sin, then he would not be pure, sinless, or omnipotent.

#194

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02.04.2023 11:01PM

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@YouFound_Lxam

That's a pretty good answer, better then I expected.

Well done.

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02.04.2023 11:47PM

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@BrotherD.Thomas

Matthew 7:1-5

“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

#196

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@Sidewalker

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Sidewalker,

Relative to your Matthew 7:5 statement where you are alluding that I am not supposed to judge, sorry, I have to correct you once again!

I can judge the Bible inept fool YouFound_Lxam all I want, because the Lord Jesus Christ commanded, "Judge righteous judgment" (John 7:24). He told a man, "Thou hast rightly judged" (Luke 7:43), and the most important judging verse is when Jesus told others; "Why even of yourselves judge ye not what is right?" (Luke 12:57).

Seriously, I should hold a Bible Class in this forum!

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#197

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Christian Petition Against Donald Trump Receives Over 20,000 Signatures (msn.com)

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@YouFound_Lxam

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02.05.2023 09:18AM

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@BrotherD.Thomas

Mark 7:6
He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.

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@Sidewalker

You know this a religion forum, right?

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@YouFound_Lxam

So, let's say you die.
Your body is still present.

And it is dead

So, let's say you die.
Your brain is still present.

And it is dead. You forgot to mention that the heart stops beating and that decay and rigor mortis starts immediately to set in.

But something must have left because otherwise, you would be alive.

So what do you believe to have left?

#201

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02.05.2023 06:09PM

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@YouFound_Lxam

You know this a religion forum, right?

Yep, and the fact that the majority of evangelical Christians sold out thier religious values to support Trump is a topical religious discussion. I'm sorry you are ashamed, but you should be, it has had a profound effect on Christianity, causing many to turn away from the Church because of the incredible hypocracy.

2 Timothy 3:2-9

For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people.

#202

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Ah Luv Trump! Trump is a true Christian.

#203

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@Sidewalker

Brother D is an atheist troll, you can pretty much avoid him

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@Polytheist-Witch

Brother D is an atheist troll, you can pretty much avoid him

Yeah, and his boyfriend Stephen too.

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@Sidewalker

2 Timothy 3:2-9 For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power.
Avoid such people

Yep Timothy, it's been happening ever since the world began and all going to god's plan, if the bible is to be believed. Tell us all something we don't know.

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@Stephen

So, let's say you die.
Your body is still present.

And it is dead

So, let's say you die.
Your brain is still present.
And it is dead. You forgot to mention that the heart stops beating and that decay and rigor mortis starts immediately to set in.

But something must have left because otherwise, you would be alive.

So what do you believe to have left?

Scientists are still studying what most people would call your soul. Something beyond your brain.

So, what ties your "soul" something that has no connection to your body, to well........your body.

When your body fails, why does your soul fail as well?

#207

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The best argument against the existence of a soul is getting knocked out or going under anesthesia.

If your consciousness isn't present then, under relatively minor trauma to the brain, how could it possibly survive death? Seems pretty obvious that the physical brain in good working condition is necessary for consciousness. Also, permanent brain damage can completely change a person's personality. Did that mess with their "soul" as well? Which is the "real" person?

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#208

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@FLRW

If your consciousness isn't present then, under relatively minor trauma to the brain, how could it possibly survive death? Seems pretty obvious that the physical brain in good working condition is necessary for consciousness. Also, permanent brain damage can completely change a person's personality. Did that mess with their "soul" as well? Which is the "real" person?

Not necessarily.

We obviously know that something ties your soul perse to your physical body in a way, but we don't know how.

#209

zedvictor4

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@Sidewalker

Bro D and Stephen.

More learned in terms of biblical knowledge than most participants on this site.

And the basis of this site is the art of trolling.

Though some trolling is more subtle than other trolling.

But some people will only respond if provoked.

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