How to explain real Christianity, to non-belivers.

Author: YouFound_Lxam

Posts

Total: 269
YouFound_Lxam
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 2,125
3
4
7
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
YouFound_Lxam
3
4
7
-->
@ludofl3x
Could god change this condition that makes him so sad that he tortures the people he never gets mad at?
God does not torture. Sin tortures. Again, God isn't doing any of these things. Man is doing it to ourselves. 

Can god have good without bad?
Yes. But then there is the inability to choose bad, which takes away free will from us humans. 

People didn't make hell, though, right? Nor did we set up the conditions that sentence people to it, right? WITHOUT believing in god, which one can I get into, heaven, or hell?
Sin created hell. 
Man fell into sin by our own accords. So God doesn't send people to hell.

Think about it like this:
There is a cliff, and everyone is blindly walking off the cliff, but there is someone at the edge of the cliff, that is reaching his hand out, trying to catch people, and the only way to save yourself, is to reach out and grab there hand. 

God gives us a way out of what we have done to ourselves. 

Please answer this question directly: does god know if you are good or bad, on the whole, before he creates you, or is he surprised?
He knows before. He knows everything that has, is, and will happen. 

You keep saying "free will" but have not yet demonstrated it can exist in a universe where god knows everything, is responsible for all things, and has seen all of time. Let's look at an example: Judas Iscariot. Did he deserve what he got in the end (a grisly death and a name synonymous with treachery)?
Free will can exist when God knows everything. 

Your overthinking what I am saying to you.

God knows everything right?
But in the end, God gave us the choice to choose. 
Just because God knows what we are going to do, doesn't mean he predestined it for us. We still chose that ourselves. 

When someone drops a bomb, you already know whats going to happen. Destruction in some way shape or form. 
That doesn't mean that you caused that to happen, does it?

You keep saying "free will" but have not yet demonstrated it can exist in a universe where god knows everything, is responsible for all things, and has seen all of time. Let's look at an example: Judas Iscariot. Did he deserve what he got in the end (a grisly death and a name synonymous with treachery)?
As for Judas, he chose to kill himself. God didn't kill him. He killed himself. 
Both him and Simon/Peter rejected God, but the difference is that Peter repented. Judas drowned in depression for what he did, and instead of doing the right thing, and asking for God's forgiveness, he killed himself in selfishness. 

Suicide is selfish. 
Polytheist-Witch
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 4,188
3
3
6
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Polytheist-Witch
3
3
6
Makes you wonder why atheists slum it by posting here.
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,258
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@BrotherD.Thomas
YouFound_Lxam, do you tell your friends and family that Jesus is a serial killer BABY KILLER as shown above, barring of course where Jesus as God murdered many innocent zygotes, fetus' and babies in His Great Flood!

He won't be doing that anytime soon, Brother D. It is the kind of thing that the theist like to ignore, and avoid.  You certainly wouldn't find a pastor or a priest stating the obvious link here. But as I have said often, this is what come of Christian's adopting a ancient god they don't understand, from a time and culture they don't understand.
It's a burden they have chosen to carry and a rod they made for their own backs. Every new excuse they come up with only gives rise to more scrutiny and more questions.
BrotherD.Thomas
BrotherD.Thomas's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,145
3
3
7
BrotherD.Thomas's avatar
BrotherD.Thomas
3
3
7
-->
@YouFound_Lxam

.

YouFound_Lxam, that is trying to be as Bible Stupid as Miss Tradesecret,


YOUR PATHETIC QUOTE IN YOUR POST #241: God does not torture. Sin tortures. Again, God isn't doing any of these things. Man is doing it to ourselves.” 

WRONG, you Bible fool! Jesus as God did imply to torture His creation in the following passage that if certain bodily appendages offend you, Jesus says to cut them off while living which is torture, so as to not be thrown into Jesus’ Hell that He created and admits exists! Understood?


JESUS STATED “And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched."

“And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched."

“And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched." ( Matthew 9: 43-48)

The irony is the biblical FACT that Jesus in being omniscient (John 3:20, Isaiah 46:9-10, Psalm 147:4-5),  knew beforehand that the pseudo-christian is going to sin in the first place! Therefore, our the blood-thirsty Jesus as God let them sin to be thrown into HELL which He created! 2+2=4!


QUESTION: Is Jesus ever loving (Romans 5:8) and forgiving (Ephesians 4:32) in His passage shown above as we are taught in church, NO HE IS NOT!  Therefore, how does the pseudo-christian like YOU accept Jesus when He DID TORTURE His creation, and in not being ever loving and forgiving as shown above?!

What is your answer to the above biblical FACTS?

BEGIN:


HOW MANY OF THE MEMBERSHIP WILL SAY THAT THE DUMBFOUNDED PSEUDO-CHRISTIAN "YOUFOUND_LXAM" WILL RUN AWAY FROM THIS POST, AND THEREFORE CANNOT CALL HIMSELF A CHRISTIAN ANYMORE, WILL BE ... ?
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 11,073
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Sidewalker
Nice to see that you've come around to the atheist way of think.


I think we've got a convert team.

Or are they just being sarcastic, because they no I'm right?

Polytheist-Witch
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 4,188
3
3
6
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Polytheist-Witch
3
3
6
Imagine spending 10 years getting a PhD in Theology only to be told that an atheist with Google is more of a Bible scholar than you, lol.
BrotherD.Thomas
BrotherD.Thomas's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,145
3
3
7
BrotherD.Thomas's avatar
BrotherD.Thomas
3
3
7

.
YouFound_Lxam, which is trying to be Bible Dumber®️ than Miss Tradesecret,


When Jesus is God (1 Timothy 4:10), His inspired words shown below state that if His creation in other countries that did not know Him to begin with, Africa, South America, etc., they are to be punished with ever lasting destruction!  Is Jesus an ever loving and forgiving God towards the peoples that didn’t even know Jesus existed in the first place because of where they lived, NO, IT IS NOT!

He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might.” (1 Thessalonians 8-9)

What is your answer to the above bibilical FACT?

BEGIN:

.
BrotherD.Thomas
BrotherD.Thomas's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,145
3
3
7
BrotherD.Thomas's avatar
BrotherD.Thomas
3
3
7
-->
@YouFound_Lxam

.
YouFound_Lxam, which is trying to be Bible Dumber®️ than Miss Tradesecret,

Here is your response to your outright Bible Dumbness for today, ready?

YOUR BIBLICAL IGNORANT QUOTE AGAIN!!!!!:  “Just because God knows what we are going to do, doesn't mean he predestined it for us. We still chose that ourselves.“

JESUS H. CHRIST, WRONG BIBLE FOOL!  In the following inspired by Jesus passages, Jesus DID PREDESTINE the pseudo-christian in what Jesus wants them to do at any given time, therefore again, NO FREE WILL Bible Dumb Ass!

1. “He predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,” (Ephesians 1:5)

2. “In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,” (Ephesians 1:11)

3. “For truly in this city there were gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place.” (Acts 4:27-28)

4.In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,” (Ephesians 1:11) 


How can you remain upon this esteemed Religion Forum for being as dumbfounded of the Bible as Miss Tradesecret is?  Can you tell us why you should remain upon this forum in being so Bible stupid, where you are giving Christianity and this Religion Forum a bad name?!

BEGIN: 

.
BrotherD.Thomas
BrotherD.Thomas's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,145
3
3
7
BrotherD.Thomas's avatar
BrotherD.Thomas
3
3
7
-->
@YouFound_Lxam

.
YouFound_Lxam, which is trying to be Bible Dumber®️ than Miss Tradesecret,

Seriously, to save yourself from further embarrassment in front of Jesus (Hebrews 4:13), and the membership, why don't you contact the moderators and have them close this thread down for good, okay?  Listen, as it is already shown, you will be known upon DEBATEART Religion Forum for being really Bible stupid as seen throughout YOUR THREAD herein!  

Therefore, stop your madness that you make in not following Jesus' scriptural words, but in contrast, you are trying to REWRITE the Bible and where you are guilty of the following Jesus inspired passage: "For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths." (2 Timothy 4:3-4)

YouFound_Lxam, do the right thing for Jesus and have the moderators shut down this thread of yours post haste to save additional embarrassment to you because of your Bible stupidity runs rampant in this thread where you can't stop it!
.

YouFound_Lxam
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 2,125
3
4
7
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
YouFound_Lxam
3
4
7
-->
@BrotherD.Thomas
You know that no one takes you seriously right?
BrotherD.Thomas
BrotherD.Thomas's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,145
3
3
7
BrotherD.Thomas's avatar
BrotherD.Thomas
3
3
7
-->
@YouFound_Lxam


.
YouFound_Lxam, which is trying to be Bible Dumber®️ than Miss Tradesecret,

YOUR PITIFUL QUOTE OF DESPAIR ONCE AGAIN IN BEING SO BIBLE STUPID: "You know that no one takes you seriously right?"

Wake up Bible fool!  When I give actual biblical axiomatic words from the Bible inspired by Jesus as God to show your Bible Stupidity, then in turn, you are specifically saying that Jesus is not to be taken seriously which is BLASPHEME, and now you have committed the dreadful Unpardonable Sin as shown in the passage below!  

“Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come” (Matthew 12:31-32) 


YouFound_Lxam, you spoke against Jesus' Holy Spirit within the Triune Doctrine, therefore guess what?  You will never be forgiven as the passage in question so states, therefore, you will be taking a one way E-Ticket ride to HELL upon your demise!  Do you want to call Jesus' words in Matthew 12:31-32 as LIES to further your position within the hottest place in the sulfur lakes of HELL? Huh?


YOUFOUND_LXAM IS NOW DONE WITHIN THIS RELIGION FORUM, WHERE HE HAS NO PLACE IN IT ANYMORE BECAUSE AS SHOWN ABOVE, HE IS GUILTY OF JESUS' UNPARDONABLE SIN, IT'S OVER FOR HIM. THEREFORE SAY YOUR GOODBYES TO HIM, SAD INDEED :(


Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,258
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@BrotherD.Thomas
@YouFound_Lxam




YouFound_Lxam wrote:  “Just because God knows what we are going to do, doesn't mean he predestined it for us. We still chose that ourselves.“

BrotherD.Thomas wrote: JESUS H. CHRIST, WRONG BIBLE FOOL!  In the following inspired by Jesus passages, Jesus DID PREDESTINE the pseudo-christian in what Jesus wants them to do at any given time, therefore again, NO FREE WILL Bible Dumb Ass!

1. “He predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,” (Ephesians 1:5)

2. “In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,” (Ephesians 1:11)

3. “For truly in this city there were gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place.” (Acts 4:27-28)

4. “In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,” (Ephesians 1:11) 
Deary, deary me.
They just cannot help themselves, Brother D. And he has the brass neck to tell others to read  and learn the bible!

Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,258
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
You know that no one takes you seriously right?

WRONG! 

 Jesus replied, “You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures" .Matthew 22:29
BrotherD.Thomas
BrotherD.Thomas's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,145
3
3
7
BrotherD.Thomas's avatar
BrotherD.Thomas
3
3
7
-->
@Stephen

Stephen,

As is unfortunately shown in my post #251, and without any doubt, YouFound_Lxam has committed Jesus' Unpardonble Sin!

Therefore, not only is YouFound_Lxam an embarrassment to his own thread herein, but to Christianity as well in saying that you shouldn't take Jesus seriously within the scriptures, which goes directly against Jesus' Holy Spirit of the Trinity Doctrine in Matthew 2:31-32!

We all knew that this day would come for the Bible fool YouFound_Lxam, and we can only hope that his remaining days upon earth are fulfilling and be rewarded with great pleasure, because where he is going upon this demise, won't be!
.




Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,258
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@BrotherD.Thomas
We all knew that this day would come for the Bible fool YouFound_Lxam

What can I say? I didn't ever dream that anyone could be as bible stupid as the Reverend Tradesecret, Brother D.. they may as well be twins.
BrotherD.Thomas
BrotherD.Thomas's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,145
3
3
7
BrotherD.Thomas's avatar
BrotherD.Thomas
3
3
7

.
TO THE MEMBERSHIP OF DEBATEART RELIGION FORUM

As is specially shown in my post #251, let us say our "goodbyes" to the sinner YouFound_Lxam because of him committing the Unpardonable Sin!

In reference to Jesus, he should get in touch with the moderators to close this thread of his down ASAP!  Since he is hell bound upon this demise for committing the Unpardonable Sin, he no longer should preach Jesus' TRUE words, because he went against them as shown in not setting an example to follow.

UNPARDONABLE SIN: “Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come” (Matthew 12:31-32) 

What is sad for YouFound_Lxam, is the FACT that the Forgiveness Doctrine doesn't apply towards the Unpardonable Sin because it states with specificity that in part: “every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, ..... Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him;"  but as shown herewith: "but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come” (Matthew 12:31-32) 

The simple math is the biblical FACT that Jesus as God didn't create the Unpardonable Sin relative to the Trinity Doctrine, as in the Holy Spirit, and not expect to follow through with it!  2+2=4.


YouFound_Lxam, you might as well pack up your bags and leave this forum, I am so sorry for you, goodbye. :(

.
BrotherD.Thomas
BrotherD.Thomas's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,145
3
3
7
BrotherD.Thomas's avatar
BrotherD.Thomas
3
3
7
-->
@Stephen


Stephen,

YOUR QUOTE OF THE TRUTH: "What can I say? I didn't ever dream that anyone could be as bible stupid as the Reverend Tradesecret, Brother D.. they may as well be twins."

Yes, I call Miss Tradesecret and YouFound_Lxam the "Dynamic Duo of Bible Stupidity" because they are always trying to outdo each other in who is the #1 Bible fool upon this forum, and this is the ONLY thing that they are known for!
.
BrotherD.Thomas
BrotherD.Thomas's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,145
3
3
7
BrotherD.Thomas's avatar
BrotherD.Thomas
3
3
7
-->
@Stephen
@YouFound_Lxam

.
YouFound_Lxam, which is trying to be Bible Dumber®️ than Miss Tradesecret, AND HAS NOW COMMITTED THE UNPARDONABLE SIN!!!

Do you want to hold a "cyber going away party" at your expense since you should never post upon this forum again because you ungodly committed the Unpardonable Sin in setting a very bad example of being a pseudo-christian? 

We could set a time and date for this festivity, to show us "toasting" with a link,  with drink in hand to your ungodly removal from this esteemed Religion forum as we say goodbye to you!  Okay?

In closing, do you smell the sent of sulfur yet?  “But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.” (Revelation 21:8)


.



10 days later

b9_ntt
b9_ntt's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 275
0
2
5
b9_ntt's avatar
b9_ntt
0
2
5
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
... there are no contradictions in the Bible.

The above is from your post #30 above.
I disagree with that, so I'd like to get your take on one seeming contradicton that I'm sure you are familiar with: the two genealogies of Jesus (Matt. 1:1-16 and Luke 3:23-38). I think there are many problems with these genealogies, but let's start with the most obvious one. From Abraham to David, the two genealogies agree. After that, Matthew shows 28 generations from David to Jesus and Luke shows 42. Of those, only three names appear in both lists: (Zorobabel, Salethiel, and Joseph). That leaves 64 names not common to both. How do explain this?
YouFound_Lxam
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 2,125
3
4
7
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
YouFound_Lxam
3
4
7
-->
@b9_ntt
Mom and dad have different sides of the family. 
b9_ntt
b9_ntt's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 275
0
2
5
b9_ntt's avatar
b9_ntt
0
2
5
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
But there's nothing in the text  to suggest that one is a different side. 
That is made up by apologists to preserve inerrancy.
I need a better reason to believe that there is no contradiction.
YouFound_Lxam
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 2,125
3
4
7
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
YouFound_Lxam
3
4
7
-->
@b9_ntt
That is the answer. 

The bible might not explicitly say Mary is the descendants of these people, and joseph of these, but using some common sense, we can work out that both Mary and joseph had sides of the family. And those sides of the family were read aloud in the bible.

It's just basic common sense.

The bible doesn't explicitly say you must not watch porn, but it implies it. 
Same goes for this. 
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,258
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
The bible might not explicitly say Mary is the descendants of these people, and joseph of these......It's just basic common sense.

The bible doesn't explicitly say that Jesus survived the crucifixion, but he did.
The bible doesn't explicitly say that Jesus and John the Baptist were rivals, but they were.
The bible doesn't explicitly say that Jesus was conceived out of wedlock, but he was.
The bible doesn't explicitly say that Jesus and John the Baptist were half brothers, but they were.

etc,etc.etc etc.etc.

There are many things the bible doesn't explicitly say but this doesn't give you -the apologist - literary licence to throw in any old bullshite that you believe will get you out of the tight corners that you and other bible dunces here often paint yourself into. And when all fails, you start screaming CONTEXT!!! 
BrotherD.Thomas
BrotherD.Thomas's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,145
3
3
7
BrotherD.Thomas's avatar
BrotherD.Thomas
3
3
7
-->
@YouFound_Lxam


YOUFOUND_LXAM, CEASE AND DESIST NOW!  ENOUGH, YOU MINION OF SATAN!

Jesus does not want you to even think about spreading His inspired words within the scriptures, simply because you created the UNPARDONABLE SIN by directly going against His Triune Doctrine as explicitly shown in the following link:  https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/8791/posts/371467

Since you are guilty of the Unpardonable Sin, your presence within this Religion forum is directly going against Jesus as God as this passage so states: Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves." (Matthew 7:15)

NOW, LEAVE!

.
b9_ntt
b9_ntt's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 275
0
2
5
b9_ntt's avatar
b9_ntt
0
2
5
--> YouFound_Lxam

That is the answer. 
The bible might not explicitly say Mary is the descendants of these people, and joseph of these, but using some common sense, we can work out that both Mary and joseph had sides of the family. And those sides of the family were read aloud in the bible.
It's just basic common sense.
One problem, as I see it, is that both genealogies show Joseph as the father of Jesus. Why would the author write Joseph if they meant Mary?
And secondly, if you are correct, since both say Joseph, how do we know which one is the real Joseph and which one is supposed to be Mary?
Thirdly, how do we know when to take a text literally, when to take it metaphorically, and when to use common sense to decide what the text was supposed to say?

I need help here to understand who is who and whose interpretation to believe, not to mention that some say all the text is literally true.



Melcharaz
Melcharaz's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 780
2
5
8
Melcharaz's avatar
Melcharaz
2
5
8
true christainity isnt explained with words or examples. knowledge is given to those who obey God. whose minds arent blinded by satan the god of this world.

That being said. search for those who seem open to the word of God. not the rebellious hellbound who oppose it. they are hellbound until they repent and obey God.
b9_ntt
b9_ntt's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 275
0
2
5
b9_ntt's avatar
b9_ntt
0
2
5
-->
@Melcharaz
Well, the Bible is supposed to be the word(s) of God. When sentences contradict each other, I need some explanation. You expect me to be open to words which make no sense to me? If that is what your god requires, then I reject the words and the god.
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,980
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8

Based on worshipping ,throughout recorded history, we can count anywhere from 8,000–12,000 gods who have been worshiped.
BrotherD.Thomas
BrotherD.Thomas's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,145
3
3
7
BrotherD.Thomas's avatar
BrotherD.Thomas
3
3
7
-->
@b9_ntt


.
--> @b9_ntt,

YOUR QUOTE RELATING TO MY SERIAL KILLER JESUS AS GOD: "Well, the Bible is supposed to be the word(s) of God."

It is not supposed to be, but is the word of the brutal serial killer Jesus the Christ as God:

And we also thank God constantly for this, that when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God.” (1 Thessalonians 2:13)


I would suggest that you don't deal with the non-christian Melcharaz anymore because he IS NOT a Christian because he could not even try to defend the faith of Christianity as the link below explicitly shows:

.