Floyd and the fatal effects of fentanyl when mixed with other illegal substances

Debates: 11

Posts: 169

02.22.2023 02:13AM

-->

@TWS1405_2

I’m also not concerned about my prose on this website, if it was for a paper I’d be more careful.

Also you yelling and typing in bold about me being on a debate website with no credibility is comical considering you’re in the exact same boat.

Topic's author

#33

Debates: 4

Posts: 2,186

02.22.2023 02:24AM

-->

@Mps1213

I’m done with your insolence and ignorance for this evening. Back to COD DMZ. I’ll debunk your nonsensical drivel and patent lack of reading comprehension skills tomorrow.

Until then …

Please keep showing your insecurities with multiple superfluous retorts.

#34

Debates: 11

Posts: 169

02.22.2023 03:14AM

-->

@TWS1405_2

You can say anything you’d like to say. You are a hypocrite, as you jump down my throat for saying people who have more credibility than you should be taken more seriously than you, then type a paragraph as to why your credibility is important for this topic, even though it had literally nothing to do with it.

I’m sorry that you consider thoughts and articulation as insecurity. I’m also sorry you feel the need to unnecessarily force a weird vocabulary to make yourself feel smarter. Have a good night man.

Using your own logic what you just said = me winning the debate. I’m glad you’re such an unscientific person, with no science background trying to talk about deeply scientific things. At least I’m a chemistry and geoscience major that actually works in the field of environmental science, while my line of work isn’t directly related to this, my education and endless hours of studying pharmacology is. I have devoted more time to this topic than you would ever consider doing. So have the many scientists who disagree with you, that you hold no value towards.

#35

Debates: 117

Posts: 8,689

02.22.2023 05:31AM

And yet it goes beyond that with the other very real and complicated health factors Floyd was afflicted with that contribued directly to his death: heart disease, hypertension, Covid-19, excited delirium, AND speedballing.

No medical expert agrees with your wishful thinking. Floyd's enlarged heart and hypertension may have reduced the amount of time Floyd could survive Chauvin's attack but the question is strictly academic since few humans could survive 8+ minutes of oxygen deprivation. All 5 experts, including Chauvin's paid expert, specifically refute your baseless assertion that COVID-19 caused Floyd's death, no expert accepts your lies that drugs or excited delirium directly contributed to Floyd's death. Your irrational, unwarranted claims are strictly faith-based artifacts from your irrational fear of black people.

PS. He consumed the speed ball right there in the car just before police made contact.
No testimony supports that claim. You are just making up lies.
It's on the body cam video, which was introduced at trial. Floyd can be heard saying he was having trouble breathing as the initial officer approached his car on the driver's side.

Thomas Lane was that initial officer, on the job less than week after falsifying his own prior criminal record, and here is that body cam video.

https://www.fox9.com/video/838956

Please identify the timestamp that shows Floyd consuming a speedball, as you claim
Please identify the timestamp that shows Floyd saying that he is having trouble breathing, as you claim.

Topic's author

#36

Debates: 4

Posts: 2,186

02.22.2023 05:37AM

-->

@oromagi

All strawman fallacies. I never claimed Covid alone was the cause of his death. I never claimed video showed him using a speedball. Reading comprehension matters.

It’s not academic regarding his enlarged heart and hypertension being a contributing factor. It was a contributing factor.

Your just as annoyingly wrong as Mos1213 is with his banal retorts.

Topic's author

#37

Debates: 4

Posts: 2,186

02.22.2023 05:44AM

-->

@Mps1213

I’m glad you’re such an unscientific person, with no science background trying to talk about deeply scientific things.

The more you keep using this credentials fallacy, the more you solidly yourself a poster child for the Dunning Kruger effect.

Having a background and/or education in a subject matter only ensures a measure of working knowledge. It doesn’t ensure truth. You need logic, reason and evidence.

Given your utter lack of linguistic skills and penchant for the Dunning Kruger Effect, anyone in their right mind would be correct to think you’re not as educated as you claim to be. Especially when you cannot even grasp simple concepts like the use of an analogy. Which you so clearly failed to do in your follow up retort. I will be pointing that out tomorrow.

Until then…

#38

Debates: 117

Posts: 8,689

02.22.2023 06:43AM

-->

@TWS1405_2

I never claimed Covid alone was the cause of his death.

No, you claimed COVID contributed directly to Floyd's death. No rational opinion agrees with your faith-based assessment.

I never claimed video showed him using a speedball. Reading comprehension matters.

So try harder to comprehend what you wrote.

You made up a fucking lie out of thin air when you claimed Floyd "consumed the speed ball right there in the car just before police made contact."
I pointed out that you are a fucking liar.
You claimed "It's on the body cam video"
I said, here's that exact video, show me where
You claimed, "I never claimed video showed his him using a speedball."
Thus establishing you a coward as well.

It’s not academic regarding his enlarged heart and hypertension being a contributing factor. It was a contributing factor.

If Chauvin's unwarranted assault had only lasted for a minute or two and Floyd' heart still stopped, perhaps. It is only academic because everybody's dead after being strangled for 8 minutes.

Your just as annoyingly wrong as Mos1213 is with his banal retorts.

Your feelings are not relevent here. Please supress them and focus on your problem with facts.

#39

Debates: 11

Posts: 169

02.22.2023 11:49AM

-->

@TWS1405_2

I’ll be honest you’re just as much of a poster child for the dunning Kruger effect. You’re the one who has 0 back ground in this are, you’re the one who can’t find any way to change your mind, you’re the one who is making claims that sent be proven, you’re the one that doesn’t know how to interpret evidence, you’re the one who probably didn’t even know what an LD50 is before I explained it to you, you’re the one who says anyone who thinks George Floyd was likely killed by the officer is brain washed, youre the one disagreeing with gold standards in toxicity sciences with drugs, you’re the one disagreeing with toxicology 101 with post mortem blood concentrations, you’re the one who thinks writing in better prose makes the argument more true, you’re the one being a hypocrite and not allowing others to make appeals to authority while you attempted to do it for yourself, you’re the on who has no education background In this trying to disagree with people who have studied it for years and years of their life.

You’re the guy who thinks he’s smarter than everyone because he knows some fancy debate phrases. You have shown it time and time again that you’re more interested in reinforcing your political beliefs than looking at this scientifically, which is why I asked you what it would take to change your mind and you had no answer. Also, i don’t car enough about this to write it as if I’m writing a paper for a journal a thesis, it’s a forum on a website no one will read. That doesn’t mean you’re right because you’re taking it more seriously and bring more careful with your wording.

Also do you realize how many times the DEA, addiction recover websites, etc have been straight up wrong about pharmacology? Like all of the drugs they say have no medical benefit that do? Or all of the times they’ve made claims about drugs being immensely toxic and dangerous while the drugs are being used in hospitals? They are not pharmacologists either, I know people in the DEA and FBI, I know people who work in addiction rehabilitation as well. Most of them are social science majors, hell I know someone in drug enforcement who has an art major. The people who work with addiction are usually social workers with psychology degrees. They almost never know anything drugs, they certainly won’t know the mechanisms of drugs, the half life of drugs, the duration of activity, the receptor affinity, the signaling biases, the toxicity patterns, etc. they’re not experts, so quoting their 2mg lethal dose stuff and extrapolating it to everyone on earth is simply foolish. Especially when the gold standard of lethal dose determination, done by actual pharmacologists, show a completely different measurement and way of determining things.

Usually when someone starts abusing the dunning-Kruger effect argument they’re doing it themselves. Because it’s requiring you to say someone is over estimating their own knowledge and experience, which would assume that you think you know more than the person you are saying it to. Which is why you don’t argue the man; you argue the matter. Instead of lazily just typing bs debate phraseology you actually try and combat the things they are saying with actual evidence that holds up to scrutiny. Nothing you have said has convinced me that my evidence needs to be re examined.

#40

Debates: 32

Posts: 2,125

02.22.2023 12:29PM

-->

@Mps1213

This is true, blood chokes do cause death with no apparent physical injury.

But after about 10 seconds of this blood choke, George Floyed would have already been unconcise.

Yet for about 5 minutes while being pressed down on, George continues to yell and speak.

Can you explain that?

#41

Debates: 11

Posts: 169

02.22.2023 01:18PM

-->

@YouFound_Lxam

If I had to guess it would be: the choke wasn’t tight enough to make him go unconscious quickly, but still was right enough to cut off circulation. Like a tight tuner band around your leg would do.

I’m not an expert in the way chokes can kill people, but I also understand enough that life threatening injuries don’t have to be observed for a choke to kill somebody. And that cutting blood circulation doesn’t always make the person go unconscious before damage is done. Blood clots work this a lot of the time.

#42

Debates: 32

Posts: 2,125

https://www.dea.gov/sites/default/files/2020-06/Fentanyl-2020_0.pdf

02.22.2023 01:25PM

-->

@Mps1213

Ok well with a cut off of circulation, at the absolute longest, it would take about 30 - 45 seconds until the victim goes unconscious. At the longest.

Yet George Floyd is heard and seen concise for about 5 minutes.

As for George Floyds trouble with breathing, I think he actually couldn't breath. But not from the officers knee on the neck.

Too much fentanyl can cause these respiratory problems as well.

stupor, changes in pupillary size, cold and clammy skin, cyanosis, coma, and respiratory failure leading to death.

#43

Debates: 11

Posts: 169

02.22.2023 01:42PM

-->

@YouFound_Lxam

Yes of course fentanyl can cause those issues. All opioids can. So can Covid though, especially if your airway isn’t fully open. Do you have any evidence fentanyl was active in his system at the time of arrest? You also can’t look at post mortem drug concentrations with any degree of certainty.

“Quantitative analysis is subject to error in itself, and because post-mortem concentrations vary in largely unpredictable ways with the site and time of sampling, as a result of the phenomenon of post-mortem redistribution. Consequently, compilations of ‘lethal concentrations’ are misleading. There is a lack of adequate studies of the true relationship between fatal events and the concentrations that can be measured subsequently, but without such studies, clinical pharmacologists and others should be wary of interpreting post-mortem measurements.”

it’s not that the officer completely cut off his blood supply. It’s that he was inhibiting it enough to cause problems because he did it for so long.

He was not really showing any behavior that is indicative of a high dose of opioids. He was more fidgety, speaking quickly, and stimulated. People usually do not act that way.

#44

Debates: 11

Posts: 169

02.22.2023 01:43PM

-->

@YouFound_Lxam

Drugs could’ve easily played a role, but that’s not the best course of an argument.

#45

Debates: 32

Posts: 2,125

https://nida.nih.gov/publications/drugfacts/fentanyl#:~:text=has%20been%20added.-,Fentanyl%20works%20by%20binding%20to%20the%20body's%20opioid%20receptors%2C%20which,unconsciousness%2C%20coma%2C%20and%20death.

02.22.2023 02:14PM

-->

@Mps1213

He was not really showing any behavior that is indicative of a high dose of opioids. He was more fidgety, speaking quickly, and stimulated. People usually do not act that way.

I would beg to differ.

"Fentanyl works by binding to the body's opioid receptors, which are found in areas of the brain that control pain and emotions. Its effects include extreme happiness, drowsiness, nausea, confusion, constipation, sedation, tolerance, addiction, respiratory depression and arrest, unconsciousness, coma, and death."

https://www.dea.gov/factsheets/fentanyl

"Similar to other opioid analgesics, fentanyl produces effects such as: relaxation, euphoria, pain relief, sedation, confusion, drowsiness, dizziness, nausea and vomiting, urinary retention, pupillary constriction, and respiratory depression."

Fentanyl puts the victim into somewhat of a confused relaxed state, even though they are dying from the inside, which in the police cam video, George Floyd seems pretty calm up until he is removed from the car. Then he is in a confused and sick state. Then he becomes unresponsive and is failing to breath.

Also lets not forget that the main reason for death when someone takes fentanyl, is respiratory failure, which is how George Floyd died.

Yes of course fentanyl can cause those issues. All opioids can. So can Covid though, especially if your airway isn’t fully open. Do you have any evidence fentanyl was active in his system at the time of arrest?

Mass amounts of evidence of fentanyl was found in the car they found George Floyd in.

Fentanyl did play a role in his death for sure.

it’s not that the officer completely cut off his blood supply. It’s that he was inhibiting it enough to cause problems because he did it for so long.

That's not how blood circulation works.

The cops in this video used the least amount of force that they could and according to law enforcement, they could of used even more force, and it would have been considered ok.

You have to understand that police officers are trained to be ready for any type of situation. They didn't know if he might of been on drugs and unstable. They didn't know if he had a concealed weapon on him, and they didn't know if he was perfectly fine. They have to be ready for any situation, and with the level of resistance that George Floyd showed, the officers had to use more force to bring him down.

Let's also not forget that George Floyd himself asked to be laid down on the ground. He was not pinned.

George was a big guy and when a big guy is resisting arrest, you are going to need to use excessive force for your safety and others.

Drugs could’ve easily played a role, but that’s not the best course of an argument.

I think it is a perfectly rational argument.

Fentanyl was found at the scene, and George Floyd died from respiratory failure (which is an big effect of fentanyl).

#46

Debates: 11

Posts: 169

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-george-floyd-overdose-death/fact-check-no-evidence-drug-overdose-was-main-cause-of-death-for-george-floyd-in-2020-idUSL1N3241XJ

02.22.2023 03:02PM

-->

@YouFound_Lxam

I agree with most of what you said, however as far as I can tell only one pill was found, and it was a half pill. My main concern is 1: you can’t prove it was active in his system. 2: he wasn’t appearing to be in his way to death when the officers arrived.

Just because fentanyl has these side effects when overdosed doesn’t necessarily mean that George Floyd overdosed. He was understandably panicked, which makes it hard to breath and stresses your heart, he also had Covid. Which does the same thing. I’m also convinced that coroners ruled his cause of death with something to do with his heart I’m at work or I’d tell you exactly what it was.

There are so many experts in this field who know the subject better than anyone, including myself who do not see the drug overdose as likely as him dying from the officer kneeling on his neck. That doesn’t mean they didn’t contribute, just means it’s hard to nail down the drugs as the sole cause.

#47

Debates: 32

Posts: 2,125

https://www.kare11.com/article/news/local/george-floyd/new-court-docs-say-george-floyd-had-fatal-level-of-fentanyl-in-his-system/89-ed69d09d-a9ec-481c-90fe-7acd4ead3d04

02.22.2023 04:29PM

-->

@Mps1213

Just because fentanyl has these side effects when overdosed doesn’t necessarily mean that George Floyd overdosed. He was understandably panicked, which makes it hard to breath and stresses your heart, he also had Covid.

It only takes about 2 mg of fentanyl to kill a person.

Now George did not have this much in his system, but that, and combining him having Covid (as you claimed) and his pre-existing heart conditions, along with the fact that he was resisting arrest (putting a lot of strain on himself) has the right combination to kill a man.

A combination of Covid, Fentanyl, pre-existing heart conditions, and the resistance is more evidence of his death, than a report where he couldn't breath, and the officer had his knee on his neck.

There was absolutely no injury to the neck, and if there were circulation cut off, then it wouldn't of taken 9 minutes for George to be unconscious, it would only take 30 seconds.

#48

Debates: 11

Posts: 169

02.22.2023 04:38PM

-->

@YouFound_Lxam

This is an improper way of viewing lethal doses, as I have pointed out a few times. That lethal dose can’t be extrapolated to anything. The lethal dosages for drugs are always measured in the form of an LX50 mg/kg meaning the lethal dose will increase as weight increases. It’ll also increase as tolerance increases. I have calculated what the LD50 would be for Floyd above. Even my calculation will likely be lower then it would have been for Floyd, because I used the LD50 for IV fentanyl. The bioavailability will increase when using IV drugs, this will lower the LD50, when compared to other routes of administration. The evidence is that he took it orally, which has lower bioavailability which will increase the LD50. It’s not as simple as saying 2mg has killed people because there are lot’s of explanations. Like being a small person, a baby, being allergic to the substance. Etc.

#49

Debates: 32

Posts: 2,125

02.22.2023 04:47PM

-->

@Mps1213

2 mg of fentanyl can kill people though.

Fentanyl is a very deadly drug.

And that along with all of Georges other conditions makes it likely that it was his cause of death.

#50

Debates: 11

Posts: 169

02.22.2023 04:58PM

-->

@YouFound_Lxam

2 mg has killed people but that is very different from saying 2mg will always kill people. There’s usually a lot of factors from a dose that low killing people, usually it is mixing other substances.

Fentanyl can be deadly, if used improperly, that doesn’t mean anyone who uses fentanyl is going to die from it.

#51

Debates: 32

Posts: 2,125

02.22.2023 05:44PM

-->

@Mps1213

I am not saying 2mg always kills people.

But with the fentanyl and the other conditions that he had, its safe to say that fentanyl played a role in his death.

#52

Sir.Lancelot

Debates: 182

Posts: 807

Sir.Lancelot

02.22.2023 05:49PM

-->

@oromagi

Oromagi, what subjects are you most knowledgeable in?

Was wondering if you’d be down to debate sometime. I can be Pro or Con.

Topic's author

#53

Debates: 4

Posts: 2,186

George Floyd Couldn't Breathe Before He Was Pinned Down by Cops, Prosecutor Says (newsweek.com)

02.22.2023 06:13PM

-->

@oromagi

>
@TWS1405_2
I never claimed Covid alone was the cause of his death.
No, you claimed COVID contributed directly to Floyd's death.

Thank you for admitting you were wrong.

No rational opinion agrees with your faith-based assessment.

My assessment isn't faith-based! It's logical, reasonable and common sense (knowledge).

I never claimed video showed him using a speedball. Reading comprehension matters.
So try harder to comprehend what you wrote.
You made up a fucking lie out of thin air when you claimed Floyd "consumed the speed ball right there in the car just before police made contact."

NO! You need to try harder to comprehend what I wrote. Nowhere in that sentence did I state, categorically or otherwise, that Floyd was seen on video consuming a speed ball. The only one "making up a fucking lie" here is you, troll.

Did you ever once stop to think and ask yourself why Floyd's drug dealer never ever gave either a statement or testify at Chauvin's trial!?! Think on that.

I pointed out that you are a fucking liar.

Psychological projection.

You claimed "It's on the body cam video"

Floyd saying, he ate too many drugs, yeah; and that he complained of respiratory problems while sitting in the car heard on the body cam video.

I said, here's that exact video, show me where

That's not the video I saw back when it happened being shown on either Officer B. Tatum's YouTube channel or ABL's either. I will have to try and find the video I saw,

You claimed, "I never claimed video showed his him using a speedball."

Fact.

Thus establishing you a coward as well.

Non sequitur and ad hominem.

It’s not academic regarding his enlarged heart and hypertension being a contributing factor. It was a contributing factor.
If Chauvin's unwarranted assault had only lasted for a minute or two and Floyd' heart still stopped, perhaps. It is only academic because everybody's dead after being strangled for 8 minutes.

Floyd was not "strangled."

"Baker testified that he told prosecutors on the day of Floyd’s autopsy that there was no physical evidence of asphyxia, or insufficient oxygen. Prosecutors put that information in their initial complaint against Chauvin, and listed existing health conditions, police restraint and potential intoxicants as contributing factors."

"The preliminary findings in the Hennepin County Medical Examiner's autopsy of Floyd "revealed no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation." The prosecutor's complaint noted that Floyd first said he could not breathe several times before he was restrained under officer Chauvin's knee as video footage has shown."

"George Floyd told police he was claustrophobic and struggling to breathe even before he ended up face down on the Minneapolis pavement..."

George Floyd told police he was struggling to breathe before an officer put a knee on his neck (nbcnews.com)

"Transcript of officer's body camera shows George Floyd told officers 'I can't breath' before being restrained."

Your just as annoyingly wrong as Mos1213 is with his banal retorts.
Your feelings are not relevent (sic) here. Please supress (sic) them and focus on your problem with facts.

My facts are sound; and facts do not care about your feelings.

All you have been doing here is parroting the leftist narrative. Parrot it enough and people like you and Mps1213 fall into its trap, and you believe the lies. Sort of like the Russian Collusion hoax that people still believe today DESPITE all the evidence that has come out to the contrary. Same for Hunter's laptop. Everyone like you believed it to be Russian disinformation because that was what you were told by so-called "experts" and "professionals" like the FBI and MSM platforms, not to mention social media who colluded with the FBI to suppress any and all fact-based information about it. Since then, more and more evidence has come out proving it was not Russian disinformation but rather fact based and it's connecting the dots between the Biden family and the CCP, not to mention Ukraine.

The difference here is no one is truly interested in or invested in finding the truth despite the evidence being out there.

It's no secret that black men suffer cardiovascular and hypertension diseases greater than any other population. Add Covid-19 and ARDS to that along with his drug usage and you get a heart attack as a result. And I will repeat this to my dying day...no one but Chauvin knows exactly how much pressure he truly applied to Floyd's neck/shoulder area. No one.

Given the decades of scientific findings gathered from coroners across the country, the CDC, hospitals, et al... when it comes to deaths related to Covid, ARDS, and all the interrelated comorbidities often experienced by black males, compounded by drug use, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to connect the dots to the actual cause of Floyd's death. You and everyone else arguing it was the knee and parrot the so-called experts (appeal to authority fallacy) are just in fucking utter denial.

#54

Debates: 117

Posts: 8,689

02.22.2023 06:53PM

-->

@Sir.Lancelot

Oromagi, what subjects are you most knowledgeable in?

I know a little about a lot of different topics. I tend to get very interested in a specific topic and go deep. I studied history, Eng literature, technical writing in college.

Was wondering if you’d be down to debate sometime. I can be Pro or Con.

Probably not. I don't think I could win another debate on this site except for full forfeits, whatever the relative quality of arguments.

Topic's author

#55

Debates: 4

Posts: 2,186

02.22.2023 06:54PM

-->

@Mps1213

Again (sic) you can use all of these fancy debate terms, there is a reason scientists, (sic) who are completely separate and independent of George Floyd (sic) or anything related to him have come to a different conclusion than yourself.

And I've already explained why that is. They are invested in one form or another to proliferate the leftist narrative despite it not being the truth. Lying comes easy, telling the truth is much harder.

It has nothing to do with me appealing to authority...

Yes, it does! In addition to the credential fallacy as well.

I don’t want to have a heated and condescending debate.

And yet that is exactly what you are facilitating.

LOL! Yeah, the CDC, DEA, et al don't know nutt'in compared to Mps1213...some anonymous pseudo know-it-all user hiding behind a sock puppet account in an online forum with absolutely ZERO FUCKING CREDIBILITY!!! And you expect everyone to take YOUR word over those credible agencies? WOW!” If you would read what I said you would see I didn’t say that at all. I said that I trust the gold standard for determining lethal dosages for drug use, and this mechanistic studies for determining said factors

Please use the " feature in order to keep the discussion more organized.

And yeah, you did say that. I quoted you saying that.

And no you have not won this debate, this is how I know you’re not scientifically minded, you were an MP for Christ sakes and you worked in social sciences, that doesn’t impress me in terms of arguing about science. Just because you were a police officer for the military, doesn’t mean you’re an expert in pharmacology and toxicology. The reason I know you’re not thinking about this objectively is because you couldn’t give me anything that would change your mind. When that is the case you’re dealing with an ideology, not objective reasoning.

The readers will decide who prevailed with the better argument in this debate/discussion.

I don’t know what the fuck you think statutory law, being a paralegal, etc has to do with toxicology and pharmacology.

The point of disclosing my background completely flew over your head. It was meant to demonstrate that I possess the mental faculties to read, interpret and understand (objectively) that which I research/read. I am no simpleton lay person.

Also you simplifying it to 2+2=4 is honestly just insane.

*FP* It's called an analogy, Mps1213; and it was an apropos use of said analogy. Too bad it flew over your head like a 747.

Sure you can read the literature the DEA puts out, but you are not applying it correctly. They didn’t publish that 2mg can be lethal so it can be extrapolated to everyone on earth, meaning that doesn’t mean anyone who takes more than more 2mg will die immediately with no question.

No shit sherlock, and I never made such a claim as you assert here. Which demonstrates your utter lack of reading comprehensions skills.

I’ve been a sick to you, you’ve been a dick to me, that doesn’t bother me.

Uh, no I have not. When you act like a jerk, I respond accordingly. That's not being a dick. But hey, if you need a tissue...

I understand why you’d Still be aggressive.

An all-too-common misunderstanding of passion, it's incorrectly labeled as being aggressive.

However, what does bother me is your inability to concede that drugs may not have been the main cause of his death or that there were any other possible variables that led to his death.

This is further evidence of your lack of reading comprehension skills. I have made it clear, in more than one posting, that drugs alone didn't kill Floyd. It was a combination of his drug use that day, his Covid-19 and most likely ARDS, in addition to his other comorbidities that were the cause of his death (and NOT the knee).

It also bothers me you can’t come up with something that’ll make you change your mind.

It's painfully obvious what it would take to change anyone's mind: a better, more well-grounded argument.

That’s what I’m saying man I don’t feel like you’re truly considering why people may disagree with you, instead you’re just calling them sheep and brain washed, and that is just insulting to your own intelligence.

The reason people disagree with me is defined by their proffered rebuttals. The rest of your statement is just drivel.

I’m also not concerned about my prose on this website, if it was for a paper (sic) I’d be more careful.

You should be. It's hard to take anyone seriously if they won't even take the time to write cogent well-thought-out arguments.

Also (sic) you yelling (sic) and typing in bold about me being on a debate website with no credibility is comical considering you’re in the exact same boat.

Wow. Your lack of reading comprehension skills is boundless. Yet again another 747 flying over your head.

You can say anything you’d like to say. You are a hypocrite, ...

Psychological projection.

I’m sorry that you consider thoughts and articulation as insecurity.

Articulation? ROTFLMAO!!! You're anything but articulate. You cannot even use the quote function correctly when replying so as to maintain the integrity of the discussion. Add to that your obvious lack of reading comprehension skills and own admission that you are not concerned about how you wrote your retorts.

I’m also sorry you feel the need to unnecessarily force a weird vocabulary to make yourself feel smarter. Have a good night (sic) man.

The apropos use of vocabulary is neither weird or indicative of making myself look smarter. I just am.

Using your own logic what you just said = me winning the debate.

Delusions of grandeur and a sophomoric use of the "I know you are, but what am I" retort.

At least I’m a chemistry and geoscience major that actually works in the field of environmental science...

Easy to claim, harder to prove.

Topic's author

#56

Debates: 4

Posts: 2,186

02.22.2023 07:02PM

-->

@Mps1213

-->
@TWS1405_2
I’ll be honest you’re just as much of a poster child for the dunning Kruger effect.

Oh look, yet another sophomoric use of the "I know you are, but what am I" banal retort. *FP*

You’re the one who has 0 back ground (sic) in this are, (sic)

Credentials fallacy

you’re the one who can’t find any way to change your mind,

Not my responsibility.

you’re the one who is making claims that sent (sic) be proven,

Wrong.

you’re the one that doesn’t know how to interpret evidence,

Easy to claim, harder to prove.

I mean really, all my years of experience in law enforcement, the criminal justice system, and academic background just leaves me so deficient in the ability "to interpret evidence." LOL!

you’re the one who says anyone who thinks George Floyd was likely killed by the officer is brain washed,

They are. Just like many still believe BLM wasn't founded upon a lie ("Hands up, Don't Shoot")

you’re the one who thinks writing in better prose makes the argument more true, (sic)

Never made such a claim.

you’re the one being a hypocrite and not allowing others to make appeals to authority while you attempted to do it for yourself,

Wrong.

you’re the on who has no education background In this trying to disagree with people who have studied it for years and years of their life.

Credentials fallacy

You’re the guy who thinks he’s smarter than everyone because he knows some fancy debate phrases.

Strawman fallacy, as I never made such a claim. That's just your insecurity showing.

Also, i (sic) don’t car (sic) enough about this to write it as if I’m writing a paper for a journal a thesis, it’s a forum on a website no one will read. That doesn’t mean you’re right because you’re taking it more seriously and bring more (sic) careful with your wording.

That's obvious you could care less about how you present yourself and any measure of credibility through your words.

Also do you realize how many times the DEA, addiction recover websites, etc have been straight up wrong about pharmacology?

Same can be said for people like you.

To be human is to err. Being able to admit it is something else. When people cannot admit that they are wrong, or even the possibility that they are wrong, is the definition of intellectual cowardice.

Usually when someone starts abusing the dunning-Kruger effect argument they’re doing it themselves.

You clearly don't understand what that effect means, let alone how to spot it correctly let alone use it in its identification thereof.

#57

Debates: 11

Posts: 169

02.22.2023 10:38PM

-->

@TWS1405_2

Look man I’m enjoying the debate, but I just got news that my company’s plane went down and killed everyone on board, lost a buddy so I’m prolly not gonna continue this much longer.

There is still one thing I’d like to say. “I mean really, all my years of experience in law enforcement, the criminal justice system, and academic background just leaves me so deficient in the ability "to interpret evidence." LOL!”

You’re back ground and law enforcement and criminal justice has nothing to do with pharmacology and doesn’t mean that alone is gonna make you able to interpret evidence properly when it comes to that specific subject.

That’s all, I probably won’t respond for a while? But I will eventually.

#58

Debates: 11

Posts: 169

02.22.2023 11:43PM

-->

@TWS1405_2

Actually this will be the last thing I’ll say. You’re a fucking hypocrite dude. Talking shit to everyone else for using the “appeal to authority fallacy 🤓” while you do it yourself.

That’s the last thing I’ll say before I get a serious response back to you after everything that happened today passes over.

Topic's author

#59

Debates: 4

Posts: 2,186