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@badger
Can come with any measure of cogent intelligent thought to add to the discussion, so personally attack. Not surprised. Typical intellectual cowardice.
Opinions on black-washing anime characters?
Posts
Total:
63
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@PREZ-HILTON
I half think him and Roosevelt are the same people. Their mentality is exactly the same. They both pretend to be former government one a cop and one pretending to be former military and I believe they both claimed that despite having 2 digit IQs they worked hard to be millionaires.
Clearly you’re not thinking very hard, or much at all to make that asinine comparison. Not to mention insulting questioning my intercity, my honorable service in both the military and civil service; and I never claimed anything about my IQ. I’m hugely disappointed in you, and lost pretty much any and all respect for you.
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@Bella3sp
Agreed. The fandom can be good at times, but also somewhat upsetting. The different settings, plot, (added) characters, all that can be cool, yeah. However, changing the original characters skin tone is a bit disappointing.
Why is it that creative license is ok for everything but skin tone, on the surface it looks like bigotry, if that's not it, then please explain what makes skin tone a problem.
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@TWS1405_2
Clearly you’re not thinking very hard, or much at all to make that asinine comparison. Not to mention insulting questioning my intercity, my honorable service in both the military and civil service; and I never claimed anything about my IQ. I’m hugely disappointed in you, and lost pretty much any and all respect for you.
If this is some sort of weird attempt to get in my pants, you should know it is barely even working.
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@PREZ-HILTON
You just proved my point.
I can't believe you've broken TWS's little heart like that, Wylted.
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@Bella3sp
Why the fandom in particular?
I suppose 'comments and interpretations of motive and meaning, annoy me at times,
But derivative art's never bothered me.
And why skin color?
Art of characters as animals, or as Humans, seem a bigger change than race.
Hm, why one but not the other?
Comments and interpretations irritate me at times,
Because they're illogical (To my view) In their complaints about the work.
I suppose fan art can be of a different appreciation or taste,
That I don't care for it myself,
. . .
'Would I be bothered by a Cars remake of Star Wars?
Hm, I don't think so. . . Might not watch it,
But there's a difference between parody and remake.
. . .
Maybe I should be less bothered by changes, but still not watch them,
Still I don't like some remakes,
Some changes seem unnecessary to me,
Or take from the style I liked in originals.
. . .
Hm, is it because I put the art and my nostalgia on a pedestal sometimes?
Makes it sacred?
Like a flag to a nationalist,
Or religious Icons, to religions.
. . .
Then again, some original works have bothered me,
So why not derivative works?
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@Lemming
What is you're question? Why does the fandom get upsetting? Why does the fandom specifically black-wash?
The fandom in particular causes these changes to the characters, when you are part of the fandom and draw these changes on the character you are the problem. Well, contributing to the problem. In this case, I talked about Izuku Midoryia, Deku. He is not black and that is evident. However, people keep taking their own representation and making him black. Though if that doesn't answer, i'm not sure what you're really asking, elaborate.
Comments don't bother me, they're trying to find the real intention or motives of the artist. I'm not by any means saying that derivative art bothers me. In fact, I draw similar copies to another's art, without drastic change. Derivative art is cool. But derivative art is different from what i'm talking about. Derivative art is imitating another's artwork but when you change the skin tone that was intended for the character, that is different. By all means you can have derivative art, or custom expressed art in your own style, sure. But once again, you're taking the representation of the character away.
Art of characters as animals, or as Humans, seem a bigger change than race.
Had to specifically quote this one. In the world of anime, they are technically humans. Though I am assuming you mean making them in realistic form? This is what you call an artist style. Imitating the artist but having the version realistic versus cartoon. Art as the character being an animal.. I wasn't quite sure about this one to be honest, but is this taking someones character and black-washing their face?
If I had made the only black person in the anime white, or even if they weren't the only one, how would viewers react?
--
As for the last parts of your comment, you mention yourself, so, i'm not quite sure who you are directing that comment towards.
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@Bella3sp
Well, take this art for example,
My thought is, ooh, that's kind of cool.
I don't think noo, they're supposed to be X ethnicity,
Though you mention a 'single character,
Eh, I still feel a bit about it.
Animal Avengers
If people want to imagine it a bit different,
Maybe imagine a character more as themself, I dunno 'reason people might change race of a 'single character.
I'd mind someone damaging an 'official American flag,
But don't have strong opinions about America flag design boxers,
I wonder if I should though.
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@Lemming
Usually I look at more headshots rather than full bodies. When you look at a headshot, it completely stands out to you. That's not the only thing, sometimes they don't even create art. They just use a tool that quickly changes the skin tone. Basically, they get the original image from the show and use a color tool. This depends, does it completely stand out to me? Even if it doesn't stand out at first, is it still wrong? It's not about what you see at first, it's about what they're doing.
I don't have current thoughts about the American flag, however, it's still a representation. I think their was an accident with the world cup, the same thing applies.
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@Bella3sp
I don't understand why what they're doing is wrong,
Even if some people airbrushed an entire cast.
Though now I'm reflecting on my past posts,
But I find myself consistent in my views, so whew.
. . .
Do you like Fate/Stay Night?
(Never seen it or read it myself)
Do the changes to historical/mythical figures, bother you in that?
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@TWS1405_2
You just proved my point.
Maybe you aren't Roosevelt but the fact people think you are should tell you how stupid you look in just about every interaction.
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@PREZ-HILTON
You just proved my point.Maybe you aren't Roosevelt but the fact people think you are should tell you how stupid you look in just about every interaction.
That speaks directly to their low self-esteem, weak constitution, and lack of skill in online communications (e.g., reading comprehension); but most of all it screams paranoia!!
You are the first and only so-called person that I have read state the patently false comparison. Speak for yourself, and let others speak for and make fools of themselves.
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@Sidewalker
Delayed response..
if that's not it, then please explain what makes skin tone a problem.
When you take someones original representation in the case i'm talking about, they're Asian, that is discrimination towards them.
Like i've stated, you will most likely not see someone post someone who originally was a black character being turned into a white character. If they did, two of two things would happen:
- Get multiple comments of hate
- Somehow find a way for the video/photo to be taken down
If this was the company, this would be different. They would most likely go down in a 'bad name' or I guess what it's called 'canceled' . Nonetheless this doesn't matter at least mostly for this topic. I'm talking about the artists, not the company making the original character.
Now, understand this, it would be considered discrimination towards people of color, wanting the character to become white because 'its better' or 'white people need more representation'. But regardless if you most likely wouldn't hear this, people would definitely get upset. The same thing should apply Black, Asian, etc. While yes not everyone thinks the same, in the end, what is it doing? Still taking away someones representation.
This relates to what I have recently seen. The creators who are black-washing characters state 'i'm showing black representation'.But what they don't realize is they are taking away the characters representation.
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@Bella3sp
Delayed response..if that's not it, then please explain what makes skin tone a problem.When you take someones original representation in the case i'm talking about, they're Asian, that is discrimination towards them.Like i've stated, you will most likely not see someone post someone who originally was a black character being turned into a white character. If they did, two of two things would happen:
- Get multiple comments of hate
- Somehow find a way for the video/photo to be taken down
If this was the company, this would be different. They would most likely go down in a 'bad name' or I guess what it's called 'canceled' . Nonetheless this doesn't matter at least mostly for this topic. I'm talking about the artists, not the company making the original character.Now, understand this, it would be considered discrimination towards people of color, wanting the character to become white because 'its better' or 'white people need more representation'. But regardless if you most likely wouldn't hear this, people would definitely get upset. The same thing should apply Black, Asian, etc. While yes not everyone thinks the same, in the end, what is it doing? Still taking away someones representation.This relates to what I have recently seen. The creators who are black-washing characters state 'i'm showing black representation'.But what they don't realize is they are taking away the characters representation.
The question was why you are OK with all changes except skin tone, why does that change bother YOU. How does telling me about how you think it would bother others explain why it bothers you?
I’m serious here, I find this culture war mysterious. I’m an old white guy, this white identity politics is a new thing in my lifetime, and I really don’t understand it. I’m sincerely trying to figure out this thought process, it seems that people can only tell you who they are by telling you what they think about who they aren’t. I just don’t get it. Is it that you are defined by opposition to the “them” of your “us/them” thinking? If “Not them” the answer to the question “Who are you”, then perhaps you should reconsider who you are?
I will tell you that it’s clear to me that people who can’t explain themselves aren’t in control of themselves, if you don’t know why you are doing what you do, it’s probably because somebody else is pulling the strings.
Roger Ailes said he could make Fox news the biggest news network because other networks tell people what to think, and Fox is going to tell them what to feel. He made it very clear that doing so would translate into control and power. I never would have believed that selling outrage would work to control people.
It seems the demagogues own people and those people are OK with being owned because “their” demagogues own “them”. That just isn’t a reason to let someone own us rather than thinking for ourselves.
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@TWS1405_2
Can come with any measure of cogent intelligent thought to add to the discussion, so personally attack. Not surprised. Typical intellectual cowardice.
I see "intellectual cowardice" is the new "Dunning Kruger Effect".
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@Sidewalker
🥱
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@Sidewalker
I would think the farther back in time one went, the 'more color/ethnicity/race politics there'd be.
Bus protests, separate drinking fountains, KKK was bigger, Martin Luthor King got shot, race riots, blackface Al Jolson.
Not that I'm saying generations were worse,
It's just slavery existed before the Civil War (Though that's further back than anyone alive I think)
Then when it was gone, there was a large influx of identifiable people appearance/culture.
. .
Though I don't mean that 'just as a race issue,
I think there's clashes in society whenever 'any group is sudden,
Oklahoma Dust Bowl, as an example,
Grapes of Wrath,
. . .
Then again, lot of locations, eras, social movements, in history.
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@Sidewalker
The question was why you are OK with all changes except skin tone, why does that change bother YOU. How does telling me about how you think it would bother others explain why it bothers you?
I didn't get that impression, my bad. Yes, I did use a lot of examples of others getting mad for such things. However, my opinion is there.
- There shouldn't be a difference in the discrimination status
- Artists shouldn't take away someones representation
Usually you don't see major changes except for the skin tone. I can't actually think of anything as of right now that i've seen someone change the character drastically excluding skin tone. So, I don't bother. Now if there WAS a change to the character, it depends? What can you say that is discrimination on the character besides skin tone?
But, you're not looking for that are you? So, in short, it's because this can be considered racist or discrimination.
- It bothers ME because its genuinely crazy how others seem to think you can only direct racism or discrimination towards people of color.
- It bothers ME because the representation of another was taken all because you wanted to direct it towards a different representation.
- It bothers ME that things can be taken so lightly against this type of racism but the others can be dearly hated.
In the end, if you're trying to get the reaction "I don't want to see a black character in any anime series", that's not anywhere close. I'm fine with black characters. Though if you want me to say, "I don't want to see an Asian character be replaced by someone of color because its discrimination", then sure, use it that way.
it seems that people can only tell you who they are by telling you what they think about who they aren’t.
Not completely sure how this relates. Though this is usually how it goes for everyone even if you're matured now.
I will tell you that it’s clear to me that people who can’t explain themselves aren’t in control of themselves, if you don’t know why you are doing what you do, it’s probably because somebody else is pulling the strings.
I am assuming this was directed towards me. It's not that I can't explain myself, in fact, I did. I explained why black-washing should be considered wrong. In all realness, that is MY opinion. Take my entire comment and turn some of my sentences in, it bothers ME because "When you take someones original representation in the case i'm talking about, they're Asian, that is discrimination towards them."
Everyone or most are influenced in some way, small or big way, matured or not. Yeah, I can agree. Most are mindless puppets that form their opinions by others. But isn't this common? Isn't this what happens when others are influenced? There's a problem, they agree. Or am I getting the wrong impression? I believe you mean something else but i'm not sure.
In short, I don't want to see someone's representation taken away. I don't want someone to be proud they are bringing another representation to cover another.
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@Lemming
I would think the farther back in time one went, the 'more color/ethnicity/race politics there'd be.
No doubt, my earlies memory of the
Bus protests, separate drinking fountains, KKK was bigger, Martin Luthor King got shot, race riots, blackface Al Jolson.
I was born in 1955, recall seeing a whites only drinking fountain, watched the civil rights movement, most of the things you mentioned were in my lifetime, and I always saw progress in time. I never thought we would go far enough to elect a black President in my lifetime, was proud to see how far we had come when Obama was elected, and then wham, the first black President resulted in a giant step backwards, decades of progress evaporated overnight..
Not that I'm saying generations were worse,
To say that there was continuous progress is to say the farther you go back the worse it was, so it’s fair to say that previous generations were worse.
It's just slavery existed before the Civil War (Though that's further back than anyone alive I think)Then when it was gone, there was a large influx of identifiable people appearance/culture.
There were two separate cultures under slavery, black culture didn't influx really, it just became identifiable and "separate but equal" (at least theoretically and legally).
Though I don't mean that 'just as a race issue,I think there's clashes in society whenever 'any group is sudden,Oklahoma Dust Bowl, as an example,Grapes of Wrath,. . .Then again, lot of locations, eras, social movements, in history.
Yes, we are polarized in a lot of ways, race, economics, especially politics, intolerance is on the rise across the board.
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@Sidewalker
'Real easy for those who never saw something achieved, to take it for granted, I know I do.
Though maybe I should more often try 'not to, and rather recall how 'recent many changes are,
Or how times were, how they were achieved.
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@Bella3sp
The question was why you are OK with all changes except skin tone, why does that change bother YOU. How does telling me about how you think it would bother others explain why it bothers you?I didn't get that impression, my bad. Yes, I did use a lot of examples of others getting mad for such things. However, my opinion is there.
- There shouldn't be a difference in the discrimination status
- Artists shouldn't take away someones representation
We are talking about fictional characters, right? It's not like thier feeling get hurt or they are offended. If it's the originating artist that makes the changes, then it's his representation that he's changing, I don't see how anybody is taking anything away from anybody.
Usually you don't see major changes except for the skin tone. I can't actually think of anything as of right now that i've seen someone change the character drastically excluding skin tone. So, I don't bother. Now if there WAS a change to the character, it depends? What can you say that is discrimination on the character besides skin tone?
I don't see skin tone as discriminary against a fictional character.
But, you're not looking for that are you? So, in short, it's because this can be considered racist or discrimination.
Now you're telling me how I feel about it?
- It bothers ME because its genuinely crazy how others seem to think you can only direct racism or discrimination towards people of color.
- It bothers ME because the representation of another was taken all because you wanted to direct it towards a different representation.
- It bothers ME that things can be taken so lightly against this type of racism but the others can be dearly hated.
In the end, if you're trying to get the reaction "I don't want to see a black character in any anime series", that's not anywhere close. I'm fine with black characters. Though if you want me to say, "I don't want to see an Asian character be replaced by someone of color because its discrimination", then sure, use it that way.
I'm not asking how I feel about it, I know how I feel. I'm trying to understand the phenomenon of so many who can't tell what they stand for, they can only tell what the stand against. It doesn't sound healthy to me, I wonder if it a matter of projecting internal conclict outward.
it seems that people can only tell you who they are by telling you what they think about who they aren’t.Not completely sure how this relates. Though this is usually how it goes for everyone even if you're matured now.I will tell you that it’s clear to me that people who can’t explain themselves aren’t in control of themselves, if you don’t know why you are doing what you do, it’s probably because somebody else is pulling the strings.I am assuming this was directed towards me. It's not that I can't explain myself, in fact, I did. I explained why black-washing should be considered wrong. In all realness, that is MY opinion. Take my entire comment and turn some of my sentences in, it bothers ME because "When you take someones original representation in the case i'm talking about, they're Asian, that is discrimination towards them."Everyone or most are influenced in some way, small or big way, matured or not. Yeah, I can agree. Most are mindless puppets that form their opinions by others. But isn't this common? Isn't this what happens when others are influenced? There's a problem, they agree. Or am I getting the wrong impression? I believe you mean something else but i'm not sure.
The, older I get, the more confused I get by social issues, especially the current culture war and identity politics, just trying to understand. I'm on the outside looking in, and I just don't get it.
In short, I don't want to see someone's representation taken away. I don't want someone to be proud they are bringing another representation to cover another.
In short, that is more confusing, not less.
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@Lemming
'Real easy for those who never saw something achieved, to take it for granted, I know I do.Though maybe I should more often try 'not to, and rather recall how 'recent many changes are,Or how times were, how they were achieved.
I suppose it better than being an old guy that just doesn't get it, it feels like i'm trapped on a Felini movie.
Your brother still doing well?
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@Sidewalker
He hasn't done any drugs,
Still delusional of a number of his past experiences and some current,
Some odd beliefs, doesn't understand society as a normal person would.
Still, he's much better than where and how he was.
Say's he's going to leave in July, as there is something he thinks he has to do back in our hometown,
I hope he doesn't leave yet,
There's still a lot that he needs, like talking to a counselor, therapy, which he has refused thus far.
I'm sure one of the reasons he hasn't done drugs here, is he hasn't been around 'certain 'friends and connections.
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@Lemming
Glad we're continuing this conversation. Thanks.
I don't understand why what they're doing is wrong,Even if some people airbrushed an entire cast.Though now I'm reflecting on my past posts,But I find myself consistent in my views, so whew.
I think its a consistent repeat in one summary: Changing another's skin tone because you like it or want more representation for you're or a different race is discrimination. Such as changing one's character who was originally black into being white.
If some people airbrushed the entire cast, that's even worse. At that point you're not even trying to bring more representation to another race but now it's just about covering the characters representation all together.
Do you like Fate/Stay Night?(Never seen it or read it myself)Do the changes to historical/mythical figures, bother you in that?
I've read some of the novels, however I don't think I actually completed all of the volumes (vols) but I understand enough. One of the most known characters that were based on a historical figure was Saber who was based on King Arthur. If you don't already know, how is an art style formed? An art style is formed based on inspiration from others, everyone gets inspiration from somewhere even if you're self-taught.
No, they don't bother me. They aren't representing the actual person. If the design was the same and they were actually trying to make them the exact same, sure. There's a difference. The fans making the art are drawing the actual character, the manga creators got inspiration from them, the historical figures. They, the artist(s), aren't trying to draw the historical people. Now if the fans got inspiration from Deku and made their own character I wouldn't have any problem.
When I say inspiration I mean not remaking him in your art style, I mean making an entirely new character.
This might be confusing, so let me confirm something. In the manga they aren't King Arthur. When the artists draw, they are Deku (or King Arthur for your example). See the difference? I appreciate you mentioning this, I might have to think harder about this one, maybe i'll change my mind on this response. I think I might..
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@Sidewalker
We are talking about fictional characters, right? It's not like thier feeling get hurt or they are offended. If it's the originating artist that makes the changes, then it's his representation that he's changing, I don't see how anybody is taking anything away from anybody.
But we're not talking about their feelings? We're talking about what the artists are doing to change their representation, not what if they're sad, hurt or upset about it.
If it's the originating artist that makes the changes,
But we're not talking about the original artist. We're talking about the fandom that makes the art.
As said, I don't think I have seen the original artist change the skin tone of a character midway through the show.
I don't see skin tone as discriminary against a fictional character.
When you change it, yes.
Now you're telling me how I feel about it?
No? Based on your previous response I assumed that wasn't the answer you were looking for from me. Hence I decided to extend my comment further.
I'm not asking how I feel about it, I know how I feel. I'm trying to understand the phenomenon of so many who can't tell what they stand for, they can only tell what the stand against. It doesn't sound healthy to me, I wonder if it a matter of projecting internal conclict outward.
I'm not saying how you feel about it? Nowhere does it say you feel or should feel a certain way. If you're basing it on my comment "In the end, if you're trying to get the reaction .." that was explaining something that could've been asked ahead of time and also my inference on how your message was sent.
I'm trying to understand the phenomenon of so many who can't tell what they stand for, they can only tell what the stand against.
If this is directed towards me, I already told you what I stood for I haven't told you something I don't stand against.
I stand for equal treatment with every race.
It doesn't sound healthy to me, I wonder if it a matter of projecting internal conclict outward.
Not sure how you're saying its unhealthy? Everyone has something they're against, whatever they say, you can easily think about it. "I don't believe in sexism" in other words, "I believe all genders should be treated equally."
The, older I get, the more confused I get by social issues, especially the current culture war and identity politics, just trying to understand. I'm on the outside looking in, and I just don't get it.
I relate to this to an extent. I've been reading about the social issues specifically the identity politics and sometimes I don't seem to understand them to the fullest.
In short, that is more confusing, not less.
At this point, I don't know what to tell you anymore..
Simply, I don't believe someones representation should be covered for the sake of representing another race.
--
Lemming,
Original text: "..Changing another's skin tone because you like it or want more representation for you're or a different race is discrimination."
Correction: Changing another's skin tone because you like it or want more representation for your race or someone else's race is discrimination.
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@Bella3sp
I kind of ramble below,
Main point I'm curious on,
Why does this discrimination matter?
. . .
So if I understand your view correctly,
X group is identifiable in X character,
Changing X character to no longer be identifiable with X group is disrespectful, because it takes away from the public perception of the character as part of X group,
Which lessens X groups influence in society?
. .
I don't think I'm understanding right though,
As I don't think fandom have enough power to do that,
I return to my thoughts on Flags and Religion,
The 'act of changing the character, is itself objectionable, because it takes away from the characters identity in X group,
Which is seen as disrespectful to X group,
Ramifications and consequences not important, it's a matter of the act being wrong in itself.
. .
That sounds the most right to me,
I'd also suppose you mean hard to change X group,
Such as race, rather than group of people with shaved heads.
. ..
I've heard that people like to 'project themselves sometimes, in media,
A character 'looking more like them, can make this easier I would think,
I don't say this to make it right or wrong,
But as interesting piece of possible reason why for some people.
Some people I imagine just like seeing different variations of a theme/character.
. . .
Of discrimination,
I'd figure there are different 'types and 'degrees,
I discriminate all the time, from a certain point of view.
If I look at athletic people more,
Or look at one race more than another,
One hair color more than another.
. . .
A fictional character 'is fictional though,
'They are not harmed,
Though I suppose the people they are 'based on, 'might be be harmed, or feel disrespected.
Author might feel irritation,
I can understand desire to possess one's intellectual creation, copyright,
Though once it's out there, people treat it all pretty fair game.
Minus making money off the concept, until copyright expires (Usually)
. . .
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@Bella3sp
We are talking about fictional characters, right? It's not like thier feeling get hurt or they are offended. If it's the originating artist that makes the changes, then it's his representation that he's changing, I don't see how anybody is taking anything away from anybody.But we're not talking about their feelings? We're talking about what the artists are doing to change their representation, not what if they're sad, hurt or upset about it.
If anartist wants to make changes to their fictional characters, isn’t that their creativeright? Who is hurt by it? If theaudience rejects it, then they are hurting themselves, but they are free to dothat if they want. We are suboptimizingif we try to limit or suppress an artist’s creativity, I will always come downon the side of freedom for artists, anything less smacks of censorship and/or violationof 1st amendment rights.
If it's the originating artist that makes the changes,But we're not talking about the original artist. We're talking about the fandom that makes the art.
Theword “fandom” has changed dramatically in my lifetime, there were always fan clubsand the like, but the fandom you are talking about is a completely newphenomenon for me, I know about it but I’m not sure I really understand it. Nevertheless, or maybe consequently, I don’tknow what you mean by “the fandom that makes the art”. To my understanding, the artists create theart, the fans appreciate the art, where does the fans “make the art” come in?
As said, I don't think I have seen the original artist change the skin tone of a character midway through the show.
That’s what I thought we were talkingabout, now I see that we are talking about something else, that you are goingto have to explain to me. As far as I know, artistsown the character’s they create, there are copyright laws that protect theartists rights, but I’m thinking that’s not what we are talking about here. Generallyspeaking, outside of copyright infringement, if fans are making art, then the firstamendment guarantees their freedom in doing so.
I don't see skin tone as discriminary against a fictional character.When you change it, yes.
You’vegot to be kidding me, the artist’s freedom should be limited because thecharacter’s they create have rights? Really? See, thisis what I’m talking about. When peoplesay things like what got my attention, I ask them to explain, and the answer isalways “I don’t know” disguised as something else. I’m going back to my theory that the culturewar demagogues are in control people’s feelings, and the controlled don’t evenknow how to explain those feelings. Trust me, the artists should offend the fictional characters they createdoes not explainyour feelings. Perhapsyou should explore the possibility I could be right through introspection. I don’t think you can explain it to me untilyou can find a way to explain it to yourself. If you can’t do that without recognizingsomeone else’s control, then you have already lost your freedom, and you can andshould take it back.
Now you're telling me how I feel about it?No? Based on your previous response I assumed that wasn't the answer you were looking for from me. Hence I decided to extend my comment further.I'm not asking how I feel about it, I know how I feel. I'm trying to understand the phenomenon of so many who can't tell what they stand for, they can only tell what the stand against. It doesn't sound healthy to me, I wonder if it a matter of projecting internal conclict outward.I'm not saying how you feel about it? Nowhere does it say you feel or should feel a certain way. If you're basing it on my comment "In the end, if you're trying to get the reaction .." that was explaining something that could've been asked ahead of time and also my inference on how your message was sent.I'm trying to understand the phenomenon of so many who can't tell what they stand for, they can only tell what the stand against.If this is directed towards me, I already told you what I stood for I haven't told you something I don't stand against.
Irecall the first post in our discussion as mostly saying “it upsets me becauseit would upset them even more”, at least it seemed that way to me.
I stand for equal treatment with every race.
Good,me too, and I am not questioning that about you. But I do think there are others who do notstand for that, and they are controlling or influencing how a lot of peoplefeel.
It doesn't sound healthy to me, I wonder if it a matter of projecting internal conclict outward.Not sure how you're saying its unhealthy? Everyone has something they're against, whatever they say, you can easily think about it. "I don't believe in sexism" in other words, "I believe all genders should be treated equally."
I dotoo, I have no idea how many genders there are, but whatever we’re up to, I believepeople should be treated equally, and as individuals.In today's world, anything else would be too complicated.
The, older I get, the more confused I get by social issues, especially the current culture war and identity politics, just trying to understand. I'm on the outside looking in, and I just don't get it.I relate to this to an extent. I've been reading about the social issues specifically the identity politics and sometimes I don't seem to understand them to the fullest.In short, that is more confusing, not less.At this point, I don't know what to tell you anymore..Simply, I don't believe someones representation should be covered for the sake of representing another race.
Are yousure that comes 100% from you, speaking freely? I just think we all need to look behind the curtain, make sure nobody backthere is pulling our levers and strings, and if they are, collectively declareour freedom. The “them” of our us/themthinking, needs to become the ones behind the curtain, not each other.
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@Lemming
He hasn't done any drugs,
Great.
Still delusional of a number of his past experiences and some current,Some odd beliefs, doesn't understand society as a normal person would.
That takes time, may never go away completely, but you will get him back if he stays clean.
Still, he's much better than where and how he was.Say's he's going to leave in July, as there is something he thinks he has to do back in our hometown,
That's a terrible idea if that's where his triggers are.
I hope he doesn't leave yet,There's still a lot that he needs, like talking to a counselor, therapy, which he has refused thus far.
That's not good, but when he's done brooding I'll bet he'll engage with the help available. Is he going to meetings?
I'm sure one of the reasons he hasn't done drugs here, is he hasn't been around 'certain 'friends and connections.
Absolutely, and it's critical that he stays away. That's what makes it so hard, he can't go back to the people from the road he went down, and he can't be alone, that's why he should be going to meetings, everybody needs a community, he can't really beat it without one. Are these friends and connections back in your hometown? I certainly hope not,
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@Sidewalker
He's not going to meetings unfortunately,
And he's resistant to putting down roots in the place we currently are.
He never really lived anywhere long term 'but our hometown,
So it ended up being where he's made most his drug connections I'm sure.