Opinions on black-washing anime characters?

Author: Bella3sp
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#61
Bella3sp
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@Lemming
Main point I'm curious on,
Why does this discrimination matter?
... because it's discrimination..

So if I understand your view correctly,
X group is identifiable in X character,
Changing X character to no longer be identifiable with X group is disrespectful, because it takes away from the public perception of the character as part of X group,
Which lessens X groups influence in society?
X group = racial status?

If so, yes, it is disrespectful because it takes away the original characters racial look.

Influence? What do you mean by  influence?

I don't think I'm understanding right though,
As I don't think fandom have enough power to do that,
I return to my thoughts on Flags and Religion,
The 'act of changing the character, is itself objectionable, because it takes away from the characters identity in X group,
Which is seen as disrespectful to X group,
Ramifications and consequences not important, it's a matter of the act being wrong in itself.
The fandom doesn't have enough power to do what?

Most of what you say from the rest seems like you're agreeing with me?

That sounds the most right to me,
I'd also suppose you mean hard to change X group,
Such as race, rather than group of people with shaved heads.
I think shaved heads and race are a bit different, so yes.

I've heard that people like to 'project themselves sometimes, in media,
A character 'looking more like them, can make this easier I would think,
I don't say this to make it right or wrong,
But as interesting piece of possible reason why for some people.

Some people I imagine just like seeing different variations of a theme/character.
So, project themselves with their own character? Pretend to be that one character?
Or do you mean taking away someone's representation and projecting them in a drawing to look like them?

If you like 'different' variations maybe create your own character? Or you know, just keep imagining.

Of discrimination,
I'd figure there are different 'types and 'degrees,
I discriminate all the time, from a certain point of view.
If I look at athletic people more,
Or look at one race more than another,
One hair color more than another.
I think there's a difference.

A fictional character 'is fictional though,
'They are not harmed,
Though I suppose the people they are 'based on, 'might be be harmed, or feel disrespected.
Yes, that's somewhat my point. Not only, but they shouldn't be congratulated like " Wow! Black Deku they changed him!". This is me mostly saying, it shouldn't be changed even if the fictional character is affected or not. 

Take for example if I graffiti on someones artwork and ruin it completely. Take if this was an artwork that was supporting black lives matter or whatever the artwork might be. Just because the artwork doesn't have feelings and they aren't harmed doesn't mean it should be done. 

Topic's author
#62
Bella3sp
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@Sidewalker
I thought I posted my response...

If anartist wants to make changes to their fictional characters, isn’t that their creativeright?  Who is hurt by it?   If theaudience rejects it, then they are hurting themselves, but they are free to dothat if they want.  We are suboptimizingif we try to limit or suppress an artist’s creativity, I will always come downon the side of freedom for artists, anything less smacks of censorship and/or violationof 1st amendment rights.  
Creativity? I can hardly call this creative when all you're doing is grabbing/clicking a different brush color. If anything, the only thing that is creative is making you're own character.

Theword “fandom” has changed dramatically in my lifetime, there were always fan clubsand the like, but the fandom you are talking about is a completely newphenomenon for me, I know about it but I’m not sure I really understand it.   Nevertheless, or maybe consequently, I don’tknow what you mean by “the fandom that makes the art”.  To my understanding, the artists create theart, the fans appreciate the art, where does the fans “make the art” come in?
My bad, fandom = fans or in other words, the viewers. Its the artist from the community that watches the show.

In other words, "the artist who watches the show (or maybe in some cases they don't even watch the show) that makes the art". 

That’s what I thought we were talkingabout, now I see that we are talking about something else, that you are goingto have to explain to me.  As far as I know, artistsown the character’s they create, there are copyright laws that protect theartists rights, but I’m thinking that’s not what we are talking about here. Generallyspeaking, outside of copyright infringement, if fans are making art, then the firstamendment guarantees their freedom in doing so.

I think some people are getting confused on this topic. This topic is about the artists black-washing the characters not the original artists of the anime/manga. 

Yes, every artist is free to do whatever they want that protects their rights. Which would mostly be called "fan-art" if its making the character based on the show. However, that doesn't mean its right, which is what i'm getting at.

You’vegot to be kidding me, the artist’s freedom should be limited because thecharacter’s they create have rights?  Really?  See, thisis what I’m talking about.  When peoplesay things like what got my attention, I ask them to explain, and the answer isalways “I don’t know” disguised as something else.  I’m going back to my theory that the culturewar demagogues are in control people’s feelings, and the controlled don’t evenknow how to explain those feelings.  Trust me, the artists should offend the fictional characters they createdoes not explainyour feelings.   Perhapsyou should explore the possibility I could be right through introspection.  I don’t think you can explain it to me untilyou can find a way to explain it to yourself. If you can’t do that without recognizingsomeone else’s control, then you have already lost your freedom, and you can andshould take it back. 
Hm? I have already agreed that people influence our opinions, feelings, thoughts and actions. 

Besides, i'm not talking about if someone has influenced my opinion or not.

-- 

Woah, slow down. I never said the characters had rights, I think people are making stuff up. This isn't about if the character has feelings, rights, opinions, etc. I'm talking about what shouldn't be done. Just because you aren't personally affected of someones death because of a murder you never knew doesn't mean intentional murder should be done.  

I haven't said anything along the lines of "I don't know" or "I can't defend my opinion, you know what? Ahh, I don't know!". 

Please, tell me, how have I not explained my feelings/opinion thoroughly? 

Nobody is in control. Are they influencing? Can I be influenced? Of course, I can't deny this. I could be against the whole world with my opinion but i'll still hold it.

Irecall the first post in our discussion as mostly saying “it upsets me becauseit would upset them even more”, at least it seemed that way to me.
Good,me too, and I am not questioning that about you.  But I do think there are others who do notstand for that, and they are controlling or influencing how a lot of peoplefeel.  
My bad, this wasn't supposed to be included in my response. I mean't to completely take this out after cutting out a few of my words. If you can, disregard this.

I dotoo, I have no idea how many genders there are, but whatever we’re up to, I believepeople should be treated equally, and as individuals.In today's world, anything else would be too complicated.
Agreed, however that was just an example.

Are yousure that comes 100% from you, speaking freely?  I just think we all need to look behind the curtain, make sure nobody backthere is pulling our levers and strings, and if they are, collectively declareour freedom.  The “them” of our us/themthinking, needs to become the ones behind the curtain, not each other
Can I be 110% sure while also being 0.01% sure?




#63
Lemming
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@Bella3sp
X group, I think I just meant as any identifiable group.

Of influence, I think I meant cultural impact of the character.

I don't think a fandom (little works) has enough power to change popular perception of a character.
That thought is just me trying to figure out what you dislike about the action.

I wouldn't say 'agree with you,
Just trying to figure out your thoughts on the matter.

Jah, people like immersing themselves into characters sometimes I think,
Take silent protagonists, or protagonists with hidden features in video games,
The lack of character allows players to use their imagination to flesh out the character in their mind.
. .
Take customizable characters in video games,
Lot of people customize the character to look a bit like them,
Sometimes as near as possible,
Though not always.
. . .

I can understand being upset for a person ruining an 'original piece of 'physical artwork,
Such as the original Mona Lisa,
But if people edit 'copies of the Mona Lisa,
Outrage doesn't really come to my mind, currently.

I can understand being upset about copyright being violated,
Someone making money off a character they did not make.

I suppose it can be irritating if people make gross or weird art. (Subjective)
People might feel the person make-shifting their version of a character isn't a 'true fan.

@NoOneInParticular