The problem I have with Jesus

Author: PREZ-HILTON

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@Best.Korea
Again, mostly issues belied by scriptures.

I do agree on overall goodness and forgiveness and that is why I show why there is no such thing as hell.

A real God would not need it in his evolving perfect reality.

Do you see that evolving reality or are you lost to some supernatural fantasy?

You seem quite lost, given your putting so many lies out that are refuted by scriptures.

We will not last long with such poor apologetics.

Regards
DL 

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@Best.Korea
We can read.

If that is your best, we are done here.

Regards
DL
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@GnosticChristianBishop
You seem quite lost, given your putting so many lies out that are refuted by scriptures.
Okay, if you are not interested in debating, just say so. No need to cause drama.
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@Best.Korea
Thanks for ending with a lie.

Regards
DL
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@GnosticChristianBishop
I find it interesting to hear/read people say how a God should and should not act, as if they have been a God before and look at the Biblical God and say "A real God would not need it in his evolving perfect reality. - GnosticChristainBishop".  How do we define what God is and is not, what should and should not be in this case?  It's as if you play a game and tell the game master that he should of made it different.  He's the game master and you are the player, so I guess you abide by his rules if you want to play.  We did not create this world, but we try our best to explain it.  So for a "why this and that" question can only be explained in what our minds can handle and really should be asked of God.  You may be surprised how he will answer.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but God never defends himself, but just asks if you will believe.

In the argument of the scapegoat, people never forced Jesus to the crucifixion, knowing that he would be the payment for our sins, through baptism.  God did this in his foreknowledge before the world began.  He knew that we were flesh and that our abilities can only go so far.  Yes, he hates and condemns sin, but he also loves humankind.  If there is a chance of redeeming, God will make a way for us to be redeemed.  So the offer was given, not demanded by us.  So those of you that want to try to walk a high moral road stating that you would never leave someone else to clean up your mess, why don't you just take him up on the offer?

As for morals, if God created them, are we not bound to live by them?  If he didn't create them, then who is to say that murder is not wrong if society allows it?

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@DavidAZ
Yahweh uses murder quite a bit.
Check the stats on babies having their heads smashed against boulders.

"Correct me if I'm wrong, but God never defends himself, but just asks if you will believe."

Ok.

You are wrong, and a liar, unless you can tell us when you heard God ask you.

Regards
DL
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@GnosticChristianBishop
God is the creator of all life. I will pray for you, atheist.
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@GnosticChristianBishop
Whooboy.  We've got a live one here.

Well, I was hoping for a banter of ideas, but just got the usual insults.  

Yahweh uses murder quite a bit.
I suppose God can use whatever method he wants, he is God after all.  Next time you get the chance to run a universe, let me know how it goes.

Why the liar?  I never said "God personally asked me", but here you are playing word games.  I was referring to scriptures of God stating:

Joshua 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

Now, can we have a civil discussion?
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@Best.Korea
Not an atheist, but ks for just another lie.
Thanks for showing you are a chronic liar with yet another lie.

See a doctor. 

Regards
DL
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@DavidAZ
Sure, if we see good and evil close enough to judge Gods.

You say, "he is God".

Who/what is your God? The endogenous Yahweh or some other?

Regards
DL

 
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@GnosticChristianBishop
Who/what is your God? 
I believe the God of the old testament (Yahweh as you call him), took on a body and died for humanity.  So I guess the correct name would be Jesus.

You said in the post above the one addressed to mine that you are not an atheist.  Tell me your God.

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@GnosticChristianBishop
Not an atheist
Not an atheist? Well, you are obviously not a Christian. Plus, you seem very upset about God being the creator of all life for all eternity therefore God being ultimatelly beneficial to life, so I am gonna go with atheist on you.
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@PREZ-HILTON
1. It's fucked up that he would be sacrificed for my sins. The guy was perfect, he doesn't deserve that. Literally slaughtering an innocent person. I don't want that on my conscience and so I must reject forgiveness.
The whole point of the sacrifice was to give you a chance for forgiveness. You not accepting that, is not only going to not change his suffering, but will make his suffering meaningless to you. 

Imagine your in the middle of a swamp with your father, and an alligator is about to attack you. You father fights to get you to land, and you survive, but your father doesn't. Now imagine after all of that, you jump back in the lake with the alligator. 

The father represents Jesus. 
The alligator represents sin.

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@YouFound_Lxam
Do you think that an Alligator could eat two humans in one sitting?

Perhaps is was one of those Alligator V Food challenges.


And was it a swamp or a lake?

This was sort of scripturally inconsistent.

A bit like that other book.
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@YouFound_Lxam
This is different. If I steal candy from a baby, I don't want to get off Scott free. I would rather buy them 2 pieces of candy and make up for my crime. 

I just think we should all work to undo or make up for the damage we caused on a daily basis.l, not be allowed to just do whatever we want and dispensing with the ideal of justice
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@DavidAZ
My God is the best rules and laws that I can find.

I hold no supernatural beliefs as that leads to your idol worship of an evil God.

You believe in a God who is immortal, yet can die. Explain your contradiction.

Regards
DL

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@Best.Korea
Ok. Ignore what I say for your own opinion.

Nice pathetic way to debate.

Your God is creating a lot of LGBTQ+.

Why?

Regards
DL
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@YouFound_Lxam
What did you do that was evil enough to earn you hell, from which you need saving?

Why would Jesus ask us to do something immoral and why would you do it?

-----------

On Jesus dying forChristians, from a moral perspective.

It takes quite an imagination and ego to thinka god would actually die for us, after condemning us unjustly in the firstplace.

Christians have swallowed a lie and don’t carehow evil they make Jesus to keep their feel good get out of hell free card.

It is a lie, first and foremost, because, likeit or not, having another innocent person suffer or die for the wrongs you havedone, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- isimmoral.

To abdicate your personal responsibility foryour actions or use a scapegoat is immoral.

Christians also have to ignore what Jesus, asa Jewish Rabbi, would have taught his people.

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shalldie. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall thefather bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shallbe upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shallnot be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put todeath because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Psa 49;7 None
of them can by any means redeem his brother, norgive to God a ransom for him:

There is no way that Christians parents wouldteach their children to use a scapegoat.

Good morals and Jesus speak against themessianic concept and bids us pick up our crosses and follow him.

Regards
DL


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@GnosticChristianBishop
Your God is creating a lot of LGBTQ+.
Why?
Sorry, you are just moving into different topic. Pick one topic. I have no plan to answer your infinite number of questions. Bible already answered them.

God allows evil because God is omnibenevolent.

Bible says "God is good to all". Therefore, God is good to evil. God gives life to the evil person, knowing that the person will be evil.

Besides, God rewards good people with infinite joy once they die.

Everyone benefits from God, both good and evil people.
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@Best.Korea
I will leave you to your childish supernatural fantasies and outright lies.

When all you have is lies -----

Regards
DL
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@GnosticChristianBishop
Good arguments lol
DavidAZ
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@GnosticChristianBishop
My God is the best rules and laws that I can find.
Who made up those rules and how do you know that you are not skewing them to meet your own way of thinking?  Why is it that your rules are so much better and who is to say which is better?  Who is the judge?

You believe in a God who is immortal, yet can die. Explain your contradiction.
A quick answer is that the immortal God dwelled in a body of flesh, known as Jesus Christ.  The body died, the spirit (God) lives.  We all know that we have a soul and a body.  Cut our bodies down to just a torso and we do not become less within ourselves.  Our soul is who we are and when the body dies, it releases the soul (for lack of a better term).

There is no way that Christians parents would teach their children to use a scapegoat.
You must be kidding about this.  The old testament law was all about substituting one for a scapegoat.  As for those scriptures you used, it is talking about punishing the one responsible only and not having go on to others just because they are relatives.  Also, you are pulling psalms way out of context to fit your ideals.  

The biggest difference here is that the "scapegoat" was freely offered.  It was not demanded by us.  God gave us an opportunity for help, not that I selfishly demanded God to make me saved and he die instead.  Look at the intent.  It was on God, not us.  If God wanted to suffer and die for us, I suppose that's his business. 

It takes quite an imagination and ego to think a god would actually die for us, after condemning us unjustly in the firstplace.
Again, you spout off these points as if they are facts.  Who says it's immoral or wrong?  You?  How do you know how a God should act?  How do you know what is unjust or not?      
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@DavidAZ
"How do you know what is unjust or not? "

??

I know the same way you do. I judge.

Regards
DL
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@GnosticChristianBishop
I know the same way you do. I judge.
But how can you declare your judgement correct?  What standard do you judge by?

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@DavidAZ
Like you. My own.

I follow that good scriptural advice.

Do you not know how you think morally and make choices?

Many Christians do not, given their choice of God.

Regards
DL

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@GnosticChristianBishop
Do you not know how you think morally and make choices?
I have been given a code of conduct portrayed in the Bible.  It does not give every circumstance so I have to utilize the concepts.

I did not decide what was good and what was evil.  God did. So I have to follow his guidelines in determining my choices.

You say most Christians don't know.  Tell how you think morally and make choices?  Does it stem from a higher power or only yourself that makes sense in your world or your circumstance at the time?
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@DavidAZ
Gen3;22 Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowinggood and evil;
1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what isgood.

Your higher power is telling you to put your/our brains into gear and guide ourselves.

The idol worship of the evil Yahweh/Jesus twins is not a good idea.

Are you thinking that they are somehow good, given past genocides and the pending Armageddon mass murder?

Regards
DL
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@GnosticChristianBishop
Your higher power is telling you to put your/our brains into gear and guide ourselves.
I would say so.  So there are also parameters to use that brain.  I get the feeling that you think I am a "brainless zombie for Christ".  Can't think on my own, can't decide without some sort of divine answer.  In a way, yes but mostly no.  We all need direction and input, but I decide to follow His rules rather than devise my own.

Are you thinking that they are somehow good, given past genocides and the pending Armageddon mass murder?
I know that HE is good.  For one, "they" are the same person.  There is only one God, no else.

For two, you seem to think that judgement suddenly turns into genocide and murder.  How are you thinking this?  You really think God just wakes up one day and decides to mass murder a group of people?  Do you not realize that all of God's wrath has to do with judgement?  I am starting to doubt your ability to love if you don't hate some things.  If you love your family, then you will hate murder, robbery, assault and the such like.  You will also want to see those crimes not happen again, so if the perpetrator will not repent, then it's best to "do away" with them, hence capital punishment or life long prison time.

What is so hard to see the obvious fact that God hates sin and will punish those who refuse repent?
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@DavidAZ
God hates sin?????

Christians venerate sin.

Do you not sing in your own Exsultet hymn, that Adam's sin is a happy fault and necessary to God's plan?

Your bible says that God created evil for his pleasure. Read your lousy book.

Regards
DL
DavidAZ
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@GnosticChristianBishop
You have such a twisted view of the scriptures that it's disgusting.  

As for the Exsultet hymn, do you think that everyone is a catholic?  The Catholics are not the authority on God or the bible or Christianity.  

God hates sin?????
Uh, yeah.  Show me otherwise.

Your bible says that God created evil for his pleasure. Read your lousy book.
Really?

Psalms 5:4 For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee. 

I found this by reading. 

Can you find your passage that God created evil for his pleasure?