Something that I thought about

Author: TheUnderdog

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#1
TheUnderdog
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Lets say your driving above the speed limit when you don't have too for pleasure (like people have sex when they don't have too for pleasure).  Lets say that you end up accidentally running someone over while driving above the speed limit and the only way they will survive is if you give them a kidney.  Lets say they were in a cross walk so they were crossing the street legally.

This analogy presents the fact that if you didn't screw up, somebody wouldn't be needing you for help (just like with pregnency/recreational sex/abortion).  If I did this to someone and they needed my kidney, I would absolutely oblige since I screwed them up, I would feel a personal obligation to save their life since I caused them to be dependent on me.  However, forcing OTHERS to oblige if they are in a similar situation seems too authoritarian to me.  You SHOULD save the person that you caused to be dependent on you, but it's not an obligation.

I have to treat an unborn baby the same way up until the moment of birth.  I'm not proud of this, but I have to be consistent.
#2
Best.Korea
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Caring for others is actually not in human nature.

Thats why it has to be taught.

Plenty of us say: "I care about others".

However, plenty of us break the speed limit for pleasure.

Women dont actually benefit from freedom to abortion. The abortion is a slippery slope, since it allows a woman to be reckless with her life, but that leads to more problems. 

Even if we completely ignore that abortion is killing of an unborn human, can we ignore that having an abortion negatively impacts women?

Isnt it better when a woman is not allowed to have sex with plenty of men?

Isnt it better when a woman has one good relationship compared to plenty of bad ones?

Abortion encourages the destruction of relationships.

Returning to the topic.
The unborn baby is powerless. It is not the baby's fault that the mother decided to have sex. Its not the baby's fault that mother doesnt want her. However, baby pays the greatest price, despite being the least guilty for the situation that happened.
#3
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@Best.Korea
 If abortion absolutists are to be taken seriously, then all cases of murder will have to be dealt with equally, including self defense.
#4
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@Greyparrot
I believe that depends on the standpoint.  Certain standpoints are better than others.

Mine being "the increase of life", which makes abortion bad. It also makes self defense good, because killing a killer actually increases life.
#5
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@Best.Korea
My point is that if exceptions are allowed to exist, then bans on exceptions cannot be allowed to exist if you are morally consistent.
#6
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@Greyparrot
True. But one must be careful with moral consistency. Sometimes its better to abandon the standpoint than try to be consistent with it.

Sometimes trying to be consistent results in slippery slope where people end up justifying all sort of nonsense to maintain position.
#7
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@Best.Korea
Caring for others is actually not in human nature
I am going to have to disagree with you on that.  Caring for others is seen in all cultures, even those uncontacted tribal cultures around the world.  We are not solitary animals.  There is a natural urge for us to care for others, because we work better in groups instead of alone.  
#8
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@Slainte
Caring for others is seen in all cultures
True. Not caring for others is also seen in plenty of cultures. So there is some "care, dont care" mix.
#9
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@Slainte
@Best.Korea
 Caring for others is seen in all cultures, even those uncontacted tribal cultures around the world.  We are not solitary animals. 
This is scientifically true. There is no "culture" as I understand the term that as a whole doesn't care about its members, otherwise it wouldn't be a culture at all. Humans are, like all primates and I would imagine all mammals at least, social creatures that are evolutionarily inclined to care for each other, for exactly the reason Slainte points out. Yes, there are many exceptions on a specimen to specimen level but to say "Some cultures care, some cultures don't care," that's just inaccurate.

True. Not caring for others is also seen in plenty of cultures. So there is some "care, dont care" mix.
What's your example of a culture that, as a whole, doesn't care about other people at all?
#10
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@ludofl3x
What's your example of a culture that, as a whole, doesn't care about other people at all?
Well, sure, every culture cares a little? Not much, but little.
#11
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@Best.Korea
Well, sure, every culture cares a little? Not much, but little.
Okay, which culture cares only a little, as compared to which culture that cares a lot then?
#12
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Giving up ya kidney .
And a jail sentence. 
Fuck that .   
No one seen shit
 
This analogy has now turned into
A HIT N RUN. 

Wich is a analogy for rooting a chick you meet in the streets and never seeing them again. 
Aka ( stray dog sex ) 

This opens the " unknown "  and sometimes,  only sometimes.   
What you don't know won't hurt you works. 

Please remember. 
Its only illegal if you get caught. 
#13
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@ludofl3x
which culture cares only a little
American culture.
#14
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@Best.Korea
Oh, okay, got it, good call. 
#15
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@ludofl3x
I was gonna say afganistan, but America seems worse.
#16
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@TheUnderdog
you could also take the stance, that if a person causes another person to need an organ, then they should be required, by law, to provide it. i know civilized society wouldn't think of it, but who cares. if you cause someone to need a kidney, you should be required to give it to them. it's only fair. id say it's only fair, even if your life ends by giving the organ. 
#17
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@TheUnderdog
I have to treat an unborn baby the same way up until the moment of birth.  I'm not proud of this, but I have to be consistent.
Your attempting to compare a kidney to organism of the pregnant woman for 9 months of fetus/baby maturation and not yet a born out breathing baby.

Lets twist the scenario and say the speed for pleasure runs over a pregnant woman, who has been pregnant for 6 hours. The list of weird scenarios never ceases.


#18
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First of all, you have an ethical obligation to give that kidney if the accident is in any way your fault. Second of all, murder is a bit different than just allowing somebody to die, and certainly allowing a stranger to die is less of a moral problem than allowing your child to die due to inaction.
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#19
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@Best.Korea
Caring for others is actually not in human nature.

Thats why it has to be taught.
If YOU want to take care of others, go for it.  Don't tread on liberty.

Even if we completely ignore that abortion is killing of an unborn human, can we ignore that having an abortion negatively impacts women?
Women benefit from abortion; it's why they do it.

Isnt it better when a woman is not allowed to have sex with plenty of men?
Women SHOULDN'T have promiscuous sex.  But it's not a requirement.

The unborn baby is powerless. It is not the baby's fault that the mother decided to have sex. Its not the baby's fault that mother doesnt want her. However, baby pays the greatest price, despite being the least guilty for the situation that happened.
The same applies for someone who needs your kidney from an accident you caused.  Should we mandate organ donation of living people?  I don't think so.
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#20
TheUnderdog
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@n8nrgim
 that if a person causes another person to need an organ, then they should be required, by law, to provide it. i know civilized society wouldn't think of it, but who cares. if you cause someone to need a kidney, you should be required to give it to them. it's only fair. id say it's only fair, even if your life ends by giving the organ. 
I just can't agree with this statement.  And I definitely think abortion should be legal if the woman will die without one.
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#21
TheUnderdog
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@ebuc
What's your point?  I'm agreeing with you here, so you should be giving me credit here.  Instead, you think I'm the bad guy so no matter what I say, woke people like yourself are always going to find a way to complain.
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#22
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@PREZ-HILTON
First of all, you have an ethical obligation to give that kidney if the accident is in any way your fault. 
I don't agree with this.
#23
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@TheUnderdog
1. You don't believe that if you hurt somebody that you have some responsibility to make them whole?

2. Or you do but this is an exception?

If the answer is number 2 I would be curious why this exception?

If the answer is number one than the burden is on me to argue why you are wrong, which I may not be willing to do, because it can get tedious. 
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#24
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@PREZ-HILTON
You don't believe that if you hurt somebody that you have some responsibility to make them whole?
If you hurt someone from an action you deliberatly directly did (beating someone up, raping someone), then yes.  If what you did was produced from something accidental (making someone's kidneys not work via something you accidentally did to them or aborting from a pregnancy you accidentally created), then no.  Otherwise, if I bought 100,000 iPhones and one child died on average making these due to how dangerous working conditions are for iPhones, I would be guilty of murder for buying 100,000 iPhones.  But I'm not because I did not deliberatly kill the child, it just came as a side effect of something I bought.
#25
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@TheUnderdog
If I knew a child died making the iphones I bought, I would at the very least donate to a charity or political organization that fights against the exploitation of children
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#26
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@PREZ-HILTON
I would at the very least donate to a charity or political organization that fights against the exploitation of children
You can do that if you want, but it doesn't make you guilty of murder if the iPhone you bought happened to be made with a child that died from making it.
#27
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@TheUnderdog
When you know that your actions will kill someone and you still choose to do those actions because you find it fun, you are a killer. You had a choice not to kill.

Its not like the responsibility magically disappears just because you wish it does.
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#28
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@Best.Korea
So would you jail someone for the rest of their life if they caused someone to need a kidney from a car accident and refused to give a kidney?  I think that's very authoritarian.  Granted, your an authoritarian, so you may be fine with taking that stance and I'm not knocking you for it.  But I lean more libertarian so I wouldn't want to support that.
#29
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@TheUnderdog
I imagine people get sued, often,
For running people over, especially if they were reckless or drunk.
Does that not imply obligation?

Maybe not their 'kidney, (In current society)
But a price is still paid.
#30
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@TheUnderdog
So would you jail someone for the rest of their life if they caused someone to need a kidney from a car accident and refused to give a kidney?
No, I would execute people for that. If you caused someone to lose kidneys and they are about to die due to the lack of a kidney, the least you can do is pay for one kidney or donate one of yours. I believe there are already laws regarding similar situations. Freedom is a good thing, but sacrificing lives of others for some fun isnt exactly good, even if labeled as freedom.