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@Sidewalker
Hollyweird making anything remotely entertaining also goes against science.
The transgenderism debate
Posts
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673
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@Greyparrot
Hollyweird making anything remotely entertaining also goes against science.
It starts with Mermaids, and then Smurfs, is nothing sacred, when will it all end?
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@Sidewalker
I blame will Smith for letting Robin Williams upstage his Genie.
Guy was better at boxing and slapping.
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@timjohnston
I guess I'm not sure what we're arguing about here. People were men and women long before there was paperwork to prove or determine it.
But paperwork is important for people like medical staff, and law enforcement, to identify you.
It is included to help identify individuals and ensure that the identification matches the person claiming that identity. It can also be used for statistics, such as tracking gender demographics. Some government agencies or businesses may need to know an individual's gender for specific reasons. Reasons being, providing appropriate medical treatment, determining eligibility for certain services or benefits, or complying with legal requirements.
Why would I agree to that? Most do if not consciously, then unconsciously and it's not necessarily a bad thing. I'm of the school that it's better to teach kids how to think, not WHAT to think, but the nature of humankind is to pass down ideas and concepts. Were it not so, we'd all still be living in caves.
Well, I assumed that you would have agreed to that, because earlier, you said, and I quote:
"I agree that trans parents shouldn't push their sexuality on kids, but then again, I feel the same way about straight parents."
Here is my thinking: I believe that kids should be taught facts. This means that in government systems that teach kids (schools) should only teach facts. That means biological, scientific, mathematical, and historical facts. Other than that, parents should have the right to teach their values to their children. Now, here is the problem with the Transgender ideology. I am 100% fine with parents teaching kids this ideology and promoting it in the household, as long as nothing illegal is going on. But if the schools are teaching facts, and this ideology teaches the opposite of those facts, then you're going to have a lot of either kids who are confused, or kids who deny the facts.
I do believe people who are gay or trans are just following their true nature and for most people it doesn't come without a fight and a resistance.
How many transgender identifying people have you seen throughout history? How many people in power throughout history have you seen identify as the opposite gender? Biologically, this claim you have made is entirely inaccurate. Have you ever heard of the term, selective evolution? Selective Evolution is how evolution works. Any part of a species or animal, physical or mental, that is not required for survival will be left behind. This means that Transgenderism, wouldn't exist in most humans, because it is unneeded for survival. Now it would in a small percentage, and that is what we call Gender Dysphoria, a mental illness.
You should try having this conversation with a person who's actually gay or trans and see if you can at least come to appreciate that they aren't faking it and that this is a real thing that people feel and are.
I am not claiming that people who are attracted to the same sex, and people who feel as if they are the opposite sex are faking it. That is not what I am claiming at all.
I have talked to gay people who are actually devoted Christians in my church, and suppress the urge, because to act on it is a sin. I have seen interviews with people who suffer from (real) gender dysphoria and feel as if they are the opposite sex. These are real feelings and drives that do exist, but for one, do not exist in the vast majority, and two to not change any of the facts.
Biology doesn't intend anything. Do you mean evolution? It's a nuanced process tempered by time and the human evolution of ideas and concepts of morality. There's a reason we don't only practice might makes might. Compassion, empathy, and forgiveness are strategies for success.
Well, assuming that not everyone is a narcissistic psychopath and people do nice things because its right, you are incorrect in this assessment of morality. You might do good things because it helps you to succeed. Most others do it though because it's nice. Thats what the west has fundamentally forgotten. Not all nice deeds come at a price. But we can talk about morality another time. This is about Transgenderism.
Being a good or loving parent has nothing to do with being gay or straight.
Being a good or loving parent, means doing what is best for your child, and a child raised in a home with a father figure, and a mother figure is the best way by far to raise your kid. But this is beside the point. We are discussing Transgenderism, and not Homosexuality.
there have always been gay and trans people. Some cultures throughout human history have tolerated and included them. Others exclude banish or kill them.
Have you ever considered the fact that these cultures were looked down upon, because the ideas that they pushed were harmful for society?
Also, just because something has existed doesn't make it right. You wouldn't be saying this, if the topic was cannibalism. You wouldn't be saying:
There have always been Canabals. Some cultures throughout history have tolerated and included them. Others exclude banish or kill them.
Some kids starve themselves to death to fit in or dress rebelliously, etc. Some of what we are seeing as nonbinary may be a part of that.
I agree. I think not only with the "non-binary" identifying kids, but with the whole LGBTQ+ movement as well. I think that it has become popular for kids (especially kids who are going through puberty) to identify as something that they are not, because of feelings of loneliness, body dysmorphia, gender dysphoria, depression, anxiety, and a bunch of other reasons as well. I also think that pretending to be something that you are not, is not good for you as well.
Most straight men come to realize as they get older than being a man is more than biology. How much sense does it make for a man to throw his life away in war? It makes a lot of sense depending now how that man views himself in society and who he is as a person.
You obviously either are not a man, or don't understand men at all by saying that bolded part.
Being a man, and being a boy are different, but they are the same gender. The way you act, and the physical being that you are, are very different, but the way you act doesn't determine the physical being that you are.
Immature adult males would be considered boys. But they are still biological men.
Stop there a second. Has it become a big deal? My life hasn't changed at all in anyway since gays were legally allowed to marry.
If you give a mouse a cookie..............
Is there rioting in the streets?
Yes.
Are kids from gay parents turning out to be horrible people?
Gay parents biologically can't have kids.
Is Jesus raining down lighting bolts?
Not literally, but in other ways, yes.
Pedophilia is not at an all time high, but even if it was, there's no connection with being gay or being trans and pedophilia.
Open up YouTube Kids and look up LGBTQ+.
You will be astonished.
Gay, straight, and trans people are all capable of being horrible persons. People had the same concerns about black men becoming free or voting and then the same things were said about women getting the vote. Same thing was said about democracy and religious tolerance and yet we got over it. We'll get over trans people too. Your kids or your grandkids won't care the same way you don't really care that women have the right to vote or that your neighbor doesn't belong to your church.
Yes, they are. So is every single person on this planet. Again, I do not have a problem with you identifying as something, as long as you don't force me to use your pronouns, teach my kids about it, and ridicule everyone who disagrees with you.
Also, Christianity is something that by this bolded section you obviously don't understand. Everyone belongs to the church, whether your Gay, Straight, Trans, or whatever. But Love is not acceptance of sin. Love is acceptance despite sin. You still have sin, but you will be accepted.
I don't want to get off track here, but I think the real problem behind the bathroom issue is that society has a twisted and sexist perception of "men" in general. People seem to think that men are going to grope and rape women most any time when no one's looking. It's the sexist view society has of men that make this a big issue, but no one ever talks about that.
I think that men who are truly masculine have less of a chance of acting on their biological desires, because they have learned maturity.
But men who are not masculine (men pretending to be women) are more inclined to act upon those desires.
Strong men aren't the ones to fear. It is the weak men that will attack.
That is why we need strong men to protect women from the weak men.
So, to rephrase the question, are you seeing a lot of problems with transmen preying on women in womens' bathrooms?
So, am I seeing problems with women preying on women in women bathrooms? Not really, because they are all women.
That means some 800,000 transwomen are using mens' bathrooms right now.
Again, men using men's bathrooms is not a surprising thing.
I don't know what you are trying to prove here.
That said, I'll grant you that abuse of women is more common, sexually or otherwise.
And what is the most common place a man will try and prey on a woman?
A place where she undresses.
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@timjohnston
First it's not a kids decision any more than a kid can decide to get his tonsils removed. Parents are involved.
I think you mean; they should be. Look at the laws in Washington State regarding this. The government doesn't have to report runaway kids to their parents.
In most cases, in those very rare cases where kids engage in drug therapy or puberty blockers, it's usually a positive outcome beneficial to their mental health in a big way.
................brother it does in fact not end well for their mental health. It in fact does the opposite in most cases.
Do you know the attempted suicide rate in the transgender community by any chance? It is larger than slaves during slavery in the U.S. and Holocaust victims in Nazi camps. And most of those cases are after the fact or during medically transitioning.
But also, kids who transition, will never experience an orgasm. Just let that sink in.
Also, there rarely any study's that suggest bullying = suicide. There are actually a lot of study's that claim otherwise.
I appreciate your honesty here, but again, who's pushing their ideology/agenda now? I agree that if someone drives drunk they should lose their drivers license. I agree that if someone assaults someone else they should have their freedom taken away (for a while), but when it comes to people making choices that essentially don't affect others, that's their business.
Do you think that adults who act like kids and destroy their bodies because of that should receive help? These people are mentally ill and we are promoting it. It is not right, and these people need help.
You don't have to like transpeople. In fact, I think you have a right to hate them. But you don't have a right to tell them they can't exist when their existence does you no harm.
I don't, but the majority does, and if the majority finds it harmful to others, and themselves, then I agree with it.
Also, I know a couple of these people who identify this way, and don't hate or dislike them. I just disagree with them.
The reason the Right is so obsessed with transpeople is because you're being manipulated by the GOP and those who want to use our democracy to gain power. The Ds do the same thing through different means and methods, but you guys on the Right are really really good at the fear stuff and you've got the whole judgy religious thing which goes way back.
Who says that the fear of God is bad? It actually isn't.
You know what kind of fear is bad though. Fake fear. Fear like climate change killing us in the next 10 years, Fear like Republicans trying to take away everyone's rights, fear like Trump being Hitler.
We got along fine without mental health for children for thousands of years too, if getting along fine means committing suicide or an unhappy life.
Dude, the suicide rate in kids now, is higher than they have ever been.
Mental health wasn't even a consideration back then, because you didn't have thousands of kids offing themselves, because someone called them the wrong name.
Another thing too. The Lefts position is:
If you don't condone the LGBTQ+ ideology, then mass amounts of children are going to off themselves.
It is blackmail and I won't stand for it. Suicide is horrible but if you think for a second that you can use suicide as a means to control how I think then you are dead wrong.
So when you were a prepubescent child and you saw a pretty girl and then you say an handsome boy, how long was it until you decided that the girl was pretty and you were attracted to her and didn't see the boy that way? Did you ponder it for days and weeks? How long did it take for you to decide to be straight?
I didn't because I was a child. I was too busy picking my nose.
I don't think you understand kids very well.
Most kids say eww to love because they are immature kids, and don't understand it.
Also, all the paragraphs that I didn't reply to were just reptations of the parts I took out of the main point.
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@timjohnston
Schools are just a reflection of society. Is it indoctrination to teach kids to share or stand in line and take turns? Who are you so say that selfishness is wrong? Is it indoctrination to require that girls and boys wear shoes? Who are you to say that being barefoot is wrong? Is it indoctrination to have them pledge allegiance to the flag or learn the rules of grammar or have boys go to shop while girls go to home ec? Schools used to teach from the bible. Schools used to teach that blacks were inferior to whites. The question of women's sufferance used to be a political issue. The concept of people owning other people used to be a political issue. There are no hard clear answers to what is right and wrong and what's a religious and political agenda. People on the Left and Right disagree. I respect that there are differences, but what I don't respect are people like you who think they get to be the moral authority on what's right or wrong and then act as if it's an obvious truth. There are people on the left who do the same thing. At least recognize what you are doing and stop being a hypocrite. Have whatever view you want, but stop pretending that YOU know what the moral truth is and that everyone else is wrong. At least have the humility to admit you are just fighting for your ideas the same as everyone else. Schools are in an impossible situation and are caught in the middle.
That literally has nothing to do with what I presented to the table.
I said that schools should teach facts. That is all I said.
What does that response have to do with this.
Morality and Other things as such can be found in other forums, but this forum is to argue TRANSGENDERISM, and nothing else.
Blind, deaf, and crippled people get along fine in our society.
Yes, but it is a small percent of the population. Also, these people by nature are going to be treated differently and have to adjust to society either way. It's not their fault and it's not society fault. It is nature's fault. People are going to look at these people differently from normal people. It is a human characteristic, not everything is discriminatory.
When I said it's natural, I meant that gay and trans people exist and are part of human kind. That's a fact. You can hate them or deny their existence, but that doesn't change reality.
People with Gender dysphoria exist. But they are looked at differently. No one's fault but natures, and they are going to have to adjust.
People who are homosexual exist. But they are looked at differently. no one's fault but natures, and they are going to have to adjust.
Also, if your ideal world is no one is discriminatory then the world you are looking at is where everyone is identical. Humans wont like other humans and there is nothing you can ever do ever to change that fact.
Beyond that, what I'm asking you is why can't you just tolerate them?
I can tolerate people. What I can't agree with is their ideology.
Your guy's argument always goes back to," How does it affect you" or "Why can't you just tolerate them."
And my answer to that is, that I can tolerate them, and they as humans don't affect me. It is the ideology that they push on top of my own that I disagree with. It is the pushing of the ideology I don't agree with. That plus the ideology itself.
1.) I don't agree with their ideology.
2.) I believe that based on substantial evidence that their ideology is not good or healthy for society.
3.) I believe that I have the right to my own opinion and their ideology calls my opinion bad.
4.) I don't have to agree with them. Not agreeing with them is not a moral wrong.
See your using words to manipulate and I do not like that.
You are saying that since I don't agree with these people, and since I don't like their beliefs that I am a bad person. Yet, if I were to do the same thing to these people and say if you aren't a Christain then you are a bad person, they would freak out.
I am a Christain. I hate no one. I disagree with many. Disagreeing with these people does not make me a bad person.
And if these people decide to mass genocide themselves simply because I don't agree, then that is on them.
Even if you think trans people are making it up or just fooling themselves, what does it hurt you to tolerate them?
See. Its sentences like this that really piss me off, because your wording makes it sound like since I don't agree with them, then I am a bad person.
If the LGBTQ+ community did not push their agenda on kids, invade women's spaces, call disagreeing people Nazis and all of the other stuff, then I wouldn't be having this conversation right now, because it truly wouldn't matter. But it is happening, and it is happening a lot. I disagree with it and I am going to call it out. That does not make me a bad person.
I think people who think Jesus will come back and rescue all the Christians in Revelations style are delusional. I think people who think everyone should own a gun are delusional.
I agreed with everything else you said except these two. And that is fine. I am not going to call you a bad person for this. But I am going to disagree with you.
People have a right to believe stupid things.
They don't have the right to push stupid things into policy's that effect everyone else, and kids at that.
You just don't like trans people and don't think they should be tolerated. That's the real problem with people like you.
You are assuming and I would call that idiotic of you.
I don't dislike people who agree with this ideology.
Again, I think that the IDEOLOGY shouldn't be tolerated, not the people that take part in it.
I am not a bad person; I just have my own opinions. I don't want harm to anyone one.
But you don't really want have that talk. You don't just want to stop trans people from limiting your freedom. You want trans people to not have freedom even in cases where it doesn't affect your freedom.
Again, assuming. An idiotic thing to do.
I do want to talk. That is why I literally created this forum. I don't want people who think they are the opposite sex to not have freedom. I never said that and will never say that.
I believe that the ideology that these people promote is not healthy for society, and the ideology should be irradiated, not the people who stand by it.
That is my position.
That's what makes YOUR agenda the most sinister and corrosion society and democracy itself.
Ok, so let me get this straight:
I want my own opinion, and I think it is wrong and unhealthy for an ideology that calls my opinion genocidal to be pushed into the law, and onto kids.
That is sinister?
See you can try to take away my freedoms, but you won't. You don't agree with me, and I don't agree with you. That is fine. I couldn't care less. But if you were to go into my kids' school and teach them the opposite of my values, then I would have a big problem with you.
This is what the left does. The left claims that all people are good, therefore socialism would work. Then they say that all people are bad, therefore we need to restrict guns. In almost every aspect of leftism they find themselves in a corner that they can't get out of.
They want inclusion for all, except for Christians. They call people bad and promote gun laws, then call them good and promote socialism. They say men can become women, then say men are hurtful to society. They say women's rights, then let men beat them in sports. They say stop black genocide, then kill all of the black babies with abortions. They say racism is still prominent, then say our society is the best there ever was. They say the right to bodily autonomy yet try and force everyone to take vaccines and wear masks. They say blackface is bad, then promote transgenderism.
And there are many more.
But for you to come along randomly, argue for two seconds then conclude I am a horrible, sinister person is absolutely idiotic.
You incorrectly guessed my viewpoint. You incorrectly guessed my opinion. And when you finally did guess it correctly, you did not represent it correctly at all.
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@TWS1405_2
Being credentialed doesn’t mean shit! That’s merely an appeal To authority fallacy.
Greatest hits!
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@Kaitlyn
This is pseudoscience genius. Do you ever bother to research the authors of these quack studies you cite?
Rushton's work has been heavily criticized by the scientific community for the questionable quality of its research,[2] with many academics arguing that it was conducted under a racistagenda.[3] From 2002 until his death, he served as the head of the Pioneer Fund, an organization founded in 1937 to promote eugenics,[4][5] which has been described as racist and white supremacist in nature,[6][7][8] and as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center.[9] He also published articles in and spoke at conferences organized by the white supremacist magazine American Renaissance.[10]
That's why we have notions like 'non-practicing Jew'.
No, it’s not. If that were true, what is a non- practicing Christian or non-practicing Catholic. It’s someone who claims a certain religion but doesn’t put any time into it. You are not smart Kaitlyn.
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@Kaitlyn
You're being very silly.
No, just calling out a racist for her stupid ideas.
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@Kaitlyn
Only in relation to some activities, such as sport.
Ya, women are physically inferior in relation to activities that are physical in nature.
Do you have any evidence?
Does it have to be real evidence or can it be the kind of pseudoscience you use to claim as evidence?
Math and investing, both academically and professionally are fields dominated by men.
Forbes, Bloomberg, JP Morgan, Peter Lynch, Archimedes, Euclid. All men
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@YouFound_Lxam
The government doesn't have to report runaway kids to their parents.
Ya, if a teenaged girl runs away because her father rapes her and her mother is a drunk, obviously the authorities should immediately contact the parents and return the girl home.
Eugenics would cull the heard of idiots like these , along with all the others riding the gender ideological trans-___ train. As well as the other 🦇 💩 😜 people who end up being a hindrance to humanity than a positive productive member of human society.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
So, do you think all human races are perfectly the same?Yes. All races are human. Cranial shapes and politics do not vary by race. Nobody, not even you, is born a stupid racist right winger.Cranial volumetric capacity varies from race to race Brain size, IQ, and racial-group differences: Evidence from musculoskeletal traits - ScienceDirect . Craniometry uses the phenotypic traits of racial skulls to determine someone's race (often used in forensic science) Racial variations in different skulls (researchgate.net)Politics vary by race. The proportion to which a race is individualistic/collectivistic can be accounted for by a great deal of the allele frequencies at A118Gand MAOA-uVNTR gene locations (see Figure 1 and 2) Wayback Machine (archive.org)I could provide plenty more data/examples for both. All of this proves that divergent human evolution is happened and that humans races exist.You just have no idea what you are talking about and are completely wrong.[ad hom attacks of *some* of the study's authors; other study/argument I presented was dropped by IWantRooseveltAgain]
Do you want to try again to address this properly?
That's why we have notions like 'non-practicing Jew'.No, it’s not. If that were true, what is a non- practicing Christian or non-practicing Catholic. It’s someone who claims a certain religion but doesn’t put any time into it. You are not smart Kaitlyn.
You're being very silly.No, just calling out a racist for her stupid ideas.
There's nothing racially hateful in what I wrote.
Only in relation to some activities, such as sport.Ya, women are physically inferior in relation to activities that are physical in nature.
Not all activities. For example, women can see more colors than men: The Science of Color: Do Women See More Colors Than Men? - Color Meanings (color-meanings.com)
Do you have any evidence?Does it have to be real evidence or can it be the kind of pseudoscience you use to claim as evidence?Math and investing, both academically and professionally are fields dominated by men.Forbes, Bloomberg, JP Morgan, Peter Lynch, Archimedes, Euclid. All men
Prove it.
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@Double_R
If the issue with transgender people was merely that they were bullied/harassed, we would expect 100%, not sub-50%.We would never expect 100% of anything.The claim was never that bullying is the only difference, the point is that there's nothing odd about the fact that a group which has been largely ostracized by society (which the bullying statistics support) would have a higher suicide rate. It would be absurd to expect any other result.
Yes, it's not only not the "only difference", but it's not even the big difference (seeing that most transgender people don't cite bullying/harassment for suicide ideation/attempts).
In other words, this "largely ostracized" group doesn't appear to be killing itself because of the ostracization -- this contradicts your argument.
I'm not interested in appeals to authority. Authority used to think that the Earth was flat.I'm interested in data and interpretation of it. That's how good, logically valid arguments are constructed.If it's not an appeal to authority fallacy (appealing to something that's not an authority) then dismissing it out of hand is the opposite of being rational.If you go to a doctor and he tells you that you need surgery to live, then unless you have expertise in the field yourself you are being irrational to dismiss his assessment. If you go to 9 other doctors and they all tell you that you will live without it, you are on clear solid grounds to reject the first doctor's assessment.Appeal to authority is not about validity, it's about strength. When you disagree with the majority of experts in a field, that weakens your case.
We're not talking about medical advice which I don't know a whole lot about, wherein I have to trust others because I don't understand much. We're talking about the highly politicized topic of transgenderism and the fact that I think the narrative from the "experts" doesn't fit the data. We don't need to go into who said what. We can just look at the arguments and data to decide for ourselves. We don't need "authorities" to make our thoughts for us when we can look at and understand the data/arguments.
I'm certainly not an expert on schizophrenia, but from what I'm reading, a lot of schizophrenics seem to be able to live normal lives 10 Facts You Should Know About Schizophrenia | Mental Floss . Would you not consider that dignified?I don't see how any of this matters with regards to the topic we are addressing.You asked me if we should treat trans people liked schizophrenics, now you're showing me extremely mild cases that have no harmful impact. If there's no harm involved or not enough harm to warrant intervention then I fail to see your point.
The issue was of dignity and whether we treat people with mental illness with dignity, to which I showed you that it was possible.
I don't see why there is a impactful different between the harm schizophrenics experience due to mental illness, and the harm transgender people experience due to mental illness.
Analogically, both schizophrenia and transgenderism are mental illness. It's possible to treat schizophrenics with dignity without appeasing their impulses that extend from mental disorder. Therefore, it should be possible to treat transgender people with dignity without appeasing their impulses that extend from mental disorder.
We only had some data to establish that they were the most bullied in post #287. You were making a lot of unsupported claims until then.Have you never heard of hyperboli?
I don't believe this for a second lol. You got caught out and are trying the whole 'my argument was intentionally bad'.
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@YouFound_Lxam
@TWS1405_2
We have asked again and again, what are you proposing as a solution? You do not answer the question. You aren't arguing for anything but intolerance and bigotry, you are simply hatemongering, with the only apparent goal to be recruitment, spreading fear, resentment, and hatred. Is that about it? That's all we see, there is nothing of substance to your argument, just bigoted rants...
...or do you propose a solution, given full authority, how do you resolve the so called "problem"? You said the transgender "ideology will bring about the end of civilization, are you just saying we can save the world if we all just hated more, is that what you are going for?
Tell us what you want to do about it, solve the problem, save us from the fall of civilization, what's the plan?
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@Sidewalker
It's possible to treat schizophrenics, alcoholics, drug addicts, depression, suicide, anorexia, bulimia with dignity without appeasing their impulses that extend from mental disorder. Therefore, it should be possible to treat transgender people with dignity without appeasing their impulses that extend from mental disorder.
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@Kaitlyn
We're not talking about medical advice which I don't know a whole lot about, wherein I have to trust others because I don't understand much. We're talking about the highly politicized topic of transgenderism and the fact that I think the narrative from the "experts" doesn't fit the data. We don't need to go into who said what. We can just look at the arguments and data to decide for ourselves. We don't need "authorities" to make our thoughts for us when we can look at and understand the data/arguments.
You don’t know a whole lot about Transgenderism either. You just think you do.
Your data is garbage. Your ability to understand real data if you had some, is questionable at best.
Reminds me of the “I did my own research on Covid” crowd.
You do the same thing on race. You find these quack, pseudoscience reports, skim them, and declare, “ya I agree with that”. You fail to exercise critical thinking skills because you don’t examine the credibility of the data or the people offering it. Conservatives are notorious for this. They accept opinions on climate science from people who are not climate scientists.
You admit here there are experts in medicine whose advice you would accept if you were ill. The only difference on Transgenderism is you want a different answer than the experts are giving you.
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@Sidewalker
>@YouFound_Lxam@<<<TWS1405_2>>>We have asked again and again, what are you proposing as a solution? You do not answer the question.
First, who is “we”? And second, no one asked me to propose a solution. Perhaps Lxam, but not I.
Regardless, had you watched the suggested de-transitioner panel I linked to you would have heard solutions to the problem.
But NO!!! You failed to review it, just like you failed to click on the interview with Kaitlyn Jenner that I linked to.
You aren't arguing for anything but intolerance and bigotry, you are simply hatemongering, with the only apparent goal to be recruitment, spreading fear, resentment, and hatred. Is that about it? That's all we see, there is nothing of substance to your argument, just bigoted rants...
That’s your emotively driven subjectively given opinion.
Providing facts (=substance) in identifying the problem =/= bigotry, hatemongering, spreading fear and/or hatred.
You just cannot come back with anything to the contrary, and just like all libtards you retort with this drivel quoted above.
...or do you propose a solution, given full authority, how do you resolve the so called "problem"? You said the transgender "ideology will bring about the end of civilization, are you just saying we can save the world if we all just hated more, is that what you are going for? Tell us what you want to do about it, solve the problem, save us from the fall of civilization, what's the plan?
The solution is obvious, so obvious that none of the panelists on the de-transitioning interviews said anything that surprised me (ie - it was all common sense).
Here are more de-transitioning stories that explains not only the social contagion that lead to these poor souls mutilating their bodies, regretting it, and going back to reality.
The obvious solution is to do as Michael Knowles said at a speech, completely eradicate the gender/transgender ideology from humanity. Get back to a classical liberal education and actually teach what kids need to know to succeed in life. Let kids be kids. Encourage the nuclear family and the three things for success: graduate high school, get a good job, and get married before having children. And put your foot down with your elected representatives and demand they stop pushing this trash that’s destroying our youth. It’s abuse. It’s an assault on their bodies and minds.
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@Sidewalker
We have asked again and again, what are you proposing as a solution? You do not answer the question. You aren't arguing for anything but intolerance and bigotry, you are simply hatemongering, with the only apparent goal to be recruitment, spreading fear, resentment, and hatred. Is that about it? That's all we see, there is nothing of substance to your argument, just bigoted rants......or do you propose a solution, given full authority, how do you resolve the so called "problem"? You said the transgender "ideology will bring about the end of civilization, are you just saying we can save the world if we all just hated more, is that what you are going for?Tell us what you want to do about it, solve the problem, save us from the fall of civilization, what's the plan?
If you have been paying attention, I have already answered this question in this foreum.
My answer is simple. Don't promote this ideology in schools. Don't promote this ideology in legislation. Don't promote this ideology to kids. Don't let men go into women's bathrooms. Don't let men play in women's sports.
That will help abundantly. That way, if you want to live your life that way, you can, but you still have to abide by reality.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
So, do you think all human races are perfectly the same?[ignored by IWantRooseveltAgain]
That's why we have notions like 'non-practicing Jew'.No, it’s not. If that were true, what is a non- practicing Christian or non-practicing Catholic. It’s someone who claims a certain religion but doesn’t put any time into it. You are not smart Kaitlyn.[completely dropped by IWantRooseveltAgain]
Only in relation to some activities, such as sport.Ya, women are physically inferior in relation to activities that are physical in nature.Not all activities. For example, women can see more colors than men: The Science of Color: Do Women See More Colors Than Men? - Color Meanings (color-meanings.com)[completely dropped by IWantRooseveltAgain]
Do you have any evidence?Does it have to be real evidence or can it be the kind of pseudoscience you use to claim as evidence?Math and investing, both academically and professionally are fields dominated by men.Forbes, Bloomberg, JP Morgan, Peter Lynch, Archimedes, Euclid. All menProve it.[completely dropped by IWantRooseveltAgain]
So why don't they have that civil right?For the same reason women are allowed on golf courses. Progress.If non-marginalized groups were allowed to create segregation laws it would be a mechanism to keep marginalized people marginalized.The well off would keep all the good stuff for themselves and leave the crumbs for the marginalized.What good stuff you ask? The good real estate, schools, water, air, police protection, hospitals, sidewalks, streets, power grid etc…I understand your what you're saying.White people should have their own segregated spaces in Nigeria, Chad and the Central African Republic, seeing that they are the marginalized minority group there. White people should have good real estate, schools, water, air, police protection, hospitals, sidewalks, streets, power grid etc. White people should be granted quotas to that they have equal representation in Black country parliaments, as well as quotas for all jobs. White people should be granted land in those countries to build White only churches. White people should be able to build White only neighborhoods.If you disagree with this, you are a bigot and racist supporting Black supremacy.[completely dropped by IWantRooseveltAgain]
You don’t know a whole lot about Transgenderism either. You just think you do.
You completely dropped my arguments against transgenderism about 90 posts ago The transgenderism debate (debateart.com):
Roosevelt won't address all of my argument I made here The transgenderism debate (debateart.com) .
I don't think there is a point in responding to him on this topic anymore.
If I don't know a whole lot about transgenderism and you're failing to respond to what I say, what does that say about you?
Your data is garbage. Your ability to understand real data if you had some, is questionable at best.
You either attack my authors or completely drop points where I present data. The most recent example is wherein you dropped points about measuring skull size (by attacking the author and never the data), and you completely dropped a data point I made about human races and differences in attitudes to political ideas: The transgenderism debate (debateart.com) . I point this out and you still ignore it.
You do the same thing on race. You find these quack, pseudoscience reports, skim them, and declare, “ya I agree with that”. You fail to exercise critical thinking skills because you don’t examine the credibility of the data or the people offering it. Conservatives are notorious for this. They accept opinions on climate science from people who are not climate scientists.
Again, you don't do anything to disprove them. You either attack the author or ignore the research completely.
You admit here there are experts in medicine whose advice you would accept if you were ill. The only difference on Transgenderism is you want a different answer than the experts are giving you.
Firstly, you haven't proven "expert" consensus on this at all.
Secondly, even if you did, the arguments are still wrong. A lot of American anthropologists still believe that human races don't exist. Experts used to think that the Earth was flat. Lots of "experts" thinking the same thing doesn't prove it right.
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@Kaitlyn
Again, you don't do anything to disprove them. You either attack the author or ignore the research completely.
I disprove them by showing you that real scientists dismiss them as pseudoscience. Do you understand that for any subject to be considered studied scientifically, it has to go through a rigorous process? A scientific process that is very structured and agreed upon by other scientists in that field of study.
Then any studies and conclusions have to be peer reviewed and evaluated to see if they meet the standards of scientific study.
Google it dummy! But you should have learned this in high school
“The scientific method is an empirical method for acquiring knowledge that has characterized the development of science since at least the 17th century
It involves careful observation, applying rigorous skepticism about what is observed, given that cognitive assumptions can distort how one interprets the observation. It involves formulating hypotheses, via induction, based on such observations; the testability of hypotheses, experimental and the measurement-based statistical testing of deductions drawn from the hypotheses; and refinement (or elimination) of the hypotheses based on the experimental findings. These are principles of the scientific method, as distinguished from a definitive series of steps applicable to all scientific enterprises.”
The scientific method is often represented as an ongoing process. Although procedures vary from one field of inquiry to another, the underlying process is frequently the same from one field to another. The process in the scientific method involves making conjectures (hypothetical explanations), deriving predictions from the hypotheses as logical consequences, and then carrying out experiments or empirical observations based on those predictions. The process of peer review involves evaluation of the experiment by experts, who typically give their opinions anonymously. Peer review does not certify the correctness of the results, only that, in the opinion of the reviewer, the experiments themselves were sound.
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@Kaitlyn
Firstly, you haven't proven "expert" consensus on this at all.
Bullshit. That is what scientific associations do.
The American Psychologist Assc and the American Psychiatry Association have a view on Transgenderism. Those are the experts. Not the quacks you have been reading
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@IwantRooseveltagain
You keep dropping 85% of the arguments I make, and I have to point them out to have a chance at you defending what you said, so you're not worth my time anymore.
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@Kaitlyn
Secondly, even if you did, the arguments are still wrong. A lot of American anthropologists still believe that human races don't exist. Experts used to think that the Earth was flat. Lots of "experts" thinking the same thing doesn't prove it right.
If by experts you mean religious leaders, yes. But they weren’t scientists or they were practitioners of pseudoscience
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@Kaitlyn
Ok, just remember you’re a dummy who can’t exercise critical thinking skills.
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@Kaitlyn
You have to watch MSNBC like Fanchick if you want to become truly intelligent.
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@Kaitlyn
You either attack the author or ignore the research completely.
And for good reason.
“Rushton spent much of his career arguing that average IQ differences between racial groups are due to genetic causes, a view that was controversial at the time and is now broadly rejected by the scientific consensus.[1][37][38] His research areas included studying brain size and the effects of racial admixture.[39][40]
In a 2020 statement, his former department at Western Ontario University stated: "Rushton's works linking race and intelligence are based on an incorrect assumption that fuels systemic racism, the notion that racialized groups are concordant with patterns of human ancestry and genetic population structure."[1]Furthermore, they stated that Rushton's work on the topic is "characterized by a complete misunderstanding of population genetic measures, including fundamental misconceptions about the nature of heritability."[1]
In summary, you are a dummy Kaitlyn for citing this guy to support your stupid ideas.
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@YouFound_Lxam
but you still have to abide by reality.
Coming from you that’s a real classic
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@YouFound_Lxam
We have asked again and again, what are you proposing as a solution? You do not answer the question. You aren't arguing for anything but intolerance and bigotry, you are simply hatemongering, with the only apparent goal to be recruitment, spreading fear, resentment, and hatred. Is that about it? That's all we see, there is nothing of substance to your argument, just bigoted rants......or do you propose a solution, given full authority, how do you resolve the so called "problem"? You said the transgender "ideology will bring about the end of civilization, are you just saying we can save the world if we all just hated more, is that what you are going for?Tell us what you want to do about it, solve the problem, save us from the fall of civilization, what's the plan?If you have been paying attention, I have already answered this question in this foreum.
No, you havent, all you have done is say you don't like the way the world is and that is a problem, and you say the solution to the problem is for the world to not be that way. That;s not a solution, it's a wish from someone that is detached from reality.
My answer is simple.
Only a simpleton would think that is an answer.
Don't promote this ideology in schools. Don't promote this ideology in legislation. Don't promote this ideology to kids. Don't let men go into women's bathrooms. Don't let men play in women's sports.
The problem is people are doing the things you listed, and your solution is to imagine that they aren;t doing these things? That's the plan? OK, but how do you implement this amazing plan, magic? Wishful thinking? Totalitarianism perhaps?
That will help abundantly.
Imagining the problem doesn't exist will not help.
That way, if you want to live your life that way, you can, but you still have to abide by reality.
When I said imagine you have complete authority and give us a solution, I did not mean that you should imagine you are God. Imagining the problem isn't happening and then saying the people have to "abide by reality" confuses your imagination with reality. Maybe if you are pretending to be God that you can just think realityinto existence, and everyone has to "abide by reality".
It's becoming more and more unlikely, but nevertheless, let's say you get a job someday, If your boss comes to you and says "X is happening and that's a problem, I want you to come to me with a solution tomorrow morning". If you go back tomorrow morning and say, "The problem is X is happening, the solution I've come up with is for X to not be happening". He is going to think you are a fucking idiot, and your new problem will be finding another job.
How about some reality adjusted thinking, given full authority (with the caveat that you don;t get to be God), how do you propose that we solve the problem?
Are you proposing a totalitarian state?
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@Sidewalker
It's possible to treat schizophrenics, alcoholics, drug addicts, depression, suicide, anorexia, bulimia with dignity without appeasing their impulses that extend from mental disorder. Therefore, it should be possible to treat transgender people with dignity without appeasing their impulses that extend from mental disorder.