Is it okay to be White? A lot of Black Americans don't think so

Author: Kaitlyn
race
Racism
black
white
racist

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#31
Sidewalker
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@Kaitlyn
I don't believe in races. 
Lol.
Race is only a social construct, it is not a biological attribute or a category of human genetic  variation.

Humans races exist whether you "believe" in them or not.
Racism exists whether you admit it or not.

#32
zedvictor4
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@Kaitlyn
Cognitive biases.

Yep that exactly what I was referring to previously.

Yet you labelled it as debunked continuum fallacy.

Have you read 1984 by George Orwell?
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#33
Kaitlyn
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@zedvictor4
It's reasonable to assume that humans exist.
Yes.

Though race is an abstract concept derived from subjective processing in response to varying incoming stimuli. So it's just as reasonable for Platypi to not believe, as it is for you to believe.
You could say that for virtually everything and end up not believing in anything.

You could say that for colors, ice-cream flavors, job titles etc.

This hyper-reductionist 'you can never truly believe in anything; everything is subjective' is a dumb 7th grader argument that should remain in 7th grade.

You do not have the monopoly on thought labelling.
But I appear to have the monopoly on reasonable arguments that 7th graders don't make, at least with you.

Have you read 1984 by George Orwell?
Yes.
#34
Sidewalker
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Racists are stupid.

Empirical evidence hasconsistently linked low intelligence with prejudice.

Lower childhood intelligence clearly predicts right-wing ideology and attitude, which in turn predicts prejudice in adulthood.

Prejudice, racism and intolerance are more likely to be present in individuals with greater cognitive rigidity, less cognitive flexibility and lower integrative complexity.

The research finds that children with low intelligence are more likely to hold prejudiced attitudes as adults.
#35
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@Kaitlyn
I do not believe in anything.

Belief implies uncertainty.

One either knows, assumes or hopes.

And colours...If ever there was an incoming signal converted into an assumption.




And if one thing has become apparent from discussions with American students is that they were taught to think inside boxes.

Which to be fair, is the nature of formative education.

Wisdom comes with age.

Wise old men as the saying goes.

And wise old women.

And of course not forgetting wise old any sort of other gender.


And so you know all about Thought Police.
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#36
Kaitlyn
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@Sidewalker
I don't believe in races. 
Lol.
Race is only a social construct, it is not a biological attribute or a category of human genetic  variation.
You're extremely wrong.

Human populations separate throughout history, and thus evolve into physically and genetically distinguishable groups (i.e. "races") due to adapting to different environments and interbreeding. When you say race is "only" a social construct, you are denying that this divergent evolution happened in humans. You're arguing that despite being separated, adapting to different environments and also interbreeding within the group, all of those separated groups of humans ended up *precisely* the same. You really expect us to believe that?

Skin color is first determined at birth by genetics/hormones (inherited through your parents). Unless you want to argue that skin color doesn't exist or everyone paints it somehow before they're born (wtf), differing skin colors clearly demonstrates genetic variation as a racial phenotype (i.e. human race).

I won't go hard into the science, but there's enough genetic variation within humans to have subspecies (Read Table 2 from this source comparing fst values of humans to other species who do have subspecies): Is Homo sapiens polytypic? Human taxonomic diversity and its implications (wordpress.com) ) , and genetic clustedness separates humans into distinct racial groups (even at rather low SNP/loci totals (100-160) with K only being set to 3 -- Asian, African and European): Human Population Genetic Structure and Inference of Group Membership - PMC (nih.gov) .

So, hopefully you have a better idea of how extremely wrong your sentence was.

Humans races exist whether you "believe" in them or not.
Racism exists whether you admit it or not.
Racial hatred exists, yes. I never denied that.

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#37
Kaitlyn
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@zedvictor4
I do not believe in anything.
You believe in the meaning of words and my ability to read them, hence why you wrote that sentence.

Easy dunk.
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#38
Kaitlyn
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@Sidewalker
Racists are stupid.
I agree. I too think the Black Americans who don't think it's okay to be White are stupid.
#39
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@IlDiavolo
I've just seen in the news that a black boy was shot in the head by a white old man just for knocking his door.
That's the news perpetrating racist stereotypes. Dude has black ups drivers dropping off packages at his house. This isn't likely a case of "black guy on porch let me shoot him"

This is the case of somebody being told they have the wrong address when knocking, chimping out and getting shot or of an attempted knock knock robbery (Google it) or the case of an overly paranoid old man. In situation 1 and 3 he deserves to go to jail though in scenario 1 the boy is partially at fault. None of these situations would imply any sort of racism and it's stupid to assume racism based merely on the skin color of the shooter. 
#40
Best.Korea
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@zedvictor4
And if one thing has become apparent from discussions with American students is that they were taught to think inside boxes.
Well, yes, the education system isnt there to make you critical of government, but to make you obedient to the government.

Thats why the school teaches you that you must sit down when you are told to, stand up only when you are commanded to, speak only when you are allowed to. You know, like a good dog.
#41
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@Kaitlyn
Nope.

One either knows or  one doesn't know.

So within the context of written English communication I know how to sequence words appropriately enough.

And I assume that you are similarly acquainted with the English language,  well enough to interpret my narrative.

No believe required.

Just appropriately relative knowledge and a optimistic assumption based upon appropriately relative data.

Otherwise I might just write Rhubarb Rhubarb Rhubarb and you would stare gormlessly at your screen.


Believe is simply a qualifier of uncertainty.
#42
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@Best.Korea
Depends where one is conditioned I suppose.

Certainly in the U.K. criticism of government is seen as a positive.

And for sure, formative indoctrination is unavoidable. It's the nature of society.
#43
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@zedvictor4
And for sure, formative indoctrination is unavoidable. It's the nature of society.
Yes. Thats why your society behaves the way they were taught in school.
#44
Platypi
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@Kaitlyn
Traditional superstitions held within the United States became obsolescent for common people sometime between around 160 and 60 years ago.  It's pretty normal for someone below the age of retirement not to have formed belief in such notions in the 21st century, and it's not unheard of among the elderly.

#45
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@Kaitlyn
Do you think I am hateful or something?
#46
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@Sidewalker
Empirical evidence hasconsistently linked low intelligence with prejudice
The op who proved at least 27% of African Americans are racist, likely agrees with this conclusion. 
#47
Platypi
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@PREZ-HILTON
I don't doubt a significant percentage could be proven, but it was not done by the OP.

It says black people, so some people who's family immigrated from Africa aren't going to answer it because black and African American mean different things, and different people will perceive it differently as well.  That's going to mess with the percentage because the poll doesn't properly define whatever the pollster intended to communicate.  On top of that, there's not enough options to select from.  

Also, twitter is kind of a cesspool.  It's not a representative sample of the American populous.
#48
Platypi
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I guess the poll is from Rasmussen and posted to twitter.  So, scratch that part, but I stand by my statement that twitter is a cesspool.
#49
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@Platypi
It says black people, so some people who's family immigrated from Africa aren't going to answer it because black and African American mean different things
That is the stupidest argument I have ever heard. I promise you they only had one option when it came time to click for race, which lumped both groups together, and common sense will tell you that African born black people are generally less racist than African Americans born in the United States. 

Take whatever group you think wouldn't answer the question about whether it is ethical to be white and you still have an alarming statistic, so this pilpul is a red herring and pointless. 


#50
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@Best.Korea
Formative indoctrination starts at home and sometimes in churches.

And then moves on to schools and possibly churches again.

So don't blame the government for everything

Blame your parents and the priest.

And then blame the government.

#51
Platypi
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@PREZ-HILTON
I've never been the best at anything before, so I appreciate the gesture toward my compelling argument.  There isn't a surviving word in our current language for the ethnic connotation of black or African American to differentiate it reliably from a racial one, so you're always going to have some confusion and you can't get around that with a general audience.  Even if it's only several people out of a hundred that is quite significant, so more descriptive language is definitely warranted.

There's another problem that was overlooked, because you don't understand why they're saying something.  It could be their whole family isn't racist, and that's what they draw from.  Maybe they feel passionate about the subject, and it's hyperbolic, so to say "how could they possibly do such a thing?".  Are they saying "we experienced racism and we don't like it" or "my race is immune to racism"?  There's no way of knowing.

Even if the sampling method is adequate, the poll is flawed.  There isn't any line of questioning that actually cuts to the chase.  

Do you believe in races?  Yes or no
Which ones?  Check all that apply
....
Do you think the white one has these special qualities?




If you're forced to revert to drawing from your experience, then the poll is pointless.  
#52
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@zedvictor4
So don't blame the government for everything
Blame your parents and the priest
Well, one spends more time in school than in church.

So yes, I gonna blame decade of school for what it produced: a society of obedient dogs.

Sure, sometimes people criticize the government.

Sometimes dog barks at the owner. Still sits down when told to sit down, like a good doggie 🐕 
#53
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@Best.Korea
Ah, but the power of indoctrination lessens the older one gets.

So by the time one gets to school one is already doomed.
#54
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@Platypi
They literally just asked the people if it was ethical for people to be white. I am not sure what you are on about
#55
Platypi
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@PREZ-HILTON
I gave you an example that makes sense so that you'd be able to see what a useful poll might look like.

We don't have a reliable way of knowing how people perceived what was presented to them, or why they answered it.
#56
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@PREZ-HILTON
Rhetorical question.

Is it ethical for black people to not be African.
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#57
Kaitlyn
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@Platypi
Traditional superstitions held within the United States became obsolescent for common people sometime between around 160 and 60 years ago.  It's pretty normal for someone below the age of retirement not to have formed belief in such notions in the 21st century, and it's not unheard of among the elderly.
You can say all this drivel that anyone can makeup, but the fact is that you're: (1) deny evolution happened in humans, (2) denying skin color is genetic, (3) denying that humans have sufficient genetic variation between groups, despite their fst values matching or being greater than other animals who have sub-species, and (4) SNPs/loci analysis doesn't comfortably fit humans into races, despite doing so at relatively low levels (low SNP/loci; low number of divisions).

I've explained it in terse detail to the other race denier here: Is it okay to be White? A lot of Black Americans don't think so (debateart.com) 

Do you think I am hateful or something?
No, I just think that your denial of human races is really stupid.
#58
YouFound_Lxam
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@Sidewalker
Race is only a social construct, it is not a biological attribute or a category of human genetic  variation.
..................so black people don't exist?
#59
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@YouFound_Lxam
True.

No-one is black.

Just varying levels of melanin.

Most people range from very light, to swarthy and through to very dark.

The classification regarded as black is very misleading.

Very swarthy people can end up in either category, white or black.

Even some people with albinism are referred to as black.

And some people with melanism can be referred to as white.


Such is the imprecision of overthink relative to anatomy, physiology and changing demographics.

I wonder what colour GOD is.

It would be f**king brilliant if it was green. 


Are Asian, Oriental and Hispanic, separate categories or what?

Do we need to rethink the whole human categorising system?

We're  doing that with gender categorisation.

Hey, what about race dysphoria and transrace. A white person who was born into a black body, or vice versa.
#60
Sidewalker
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@YouFound_Lxam
Race is only a social construct, it is not a biological attribute or a category of human genetic  variation.
..................so black people don't exist?
Oh yeah, that's what that says, dang gum it boy, youse really good at that philosophy thang.

Plue, it aint black people, it's thier ideology, it don't benefit society, it goes against science, society will collapse, Hitler, etc.