The Bell Curve - book proving blacks in America suck at education

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05.07.2023 01:20AM

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@TWS1405_2

"Education and intelligence ARE related. " I believe a unbiased education environment allows what already exists to be better articulated. A biased educational environment breeds irreversible confirmation bias and stupidity that did not exist otherwise. Education can destroy the minds otherwise intelligent people depending on where they get their education. Education environments can be very oppressive, indoctrinative and cruel to the human sole and mind. Not all but more than not.

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#32

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Posts: 2,186

05.07.2023 01:41AM

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@sadolite

Okay, true. Presently and as of late (last 10-15 years), the “public” education system has gone to shit.

BUT prior to that and going back decades, public education was serving its intended purpose.

That being said, I spoke on the failing education system around 2005 with friends and acquaintances that even at that time I saw the impending “Dumbing Down of America” within the next decade. And sure shit enough, it came to fruition.

#33

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05.07.2023 02:00AM

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@TWS1405_2

I find nothing to disagree with in your response. We both agree that education can be very harmful or helpful. Currently overall insidiously harmful.

#34

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05.07.2023 04:54AM

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@TWS1405_2

Did you listen to Green Day?

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#35

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05.07.2023 08:47AM

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@Reece101

No. Only reason I know the name AND one song of theirs I’ve heard of, 21 Guns, is because of it being on the soundtrack for Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen.

64 days later

#36

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07.11.2023 07:59AM

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@TWS1405_2

I have not read this book and likely won’t because it’s of no interest to me. I just want a clarification. Are you claiming that blacks in America don’t present good education? Are you saying that blacks don’t learn as well? if you’re saying either of these things, what is the supposed cause of this disparity you’re claiming exists?

#37

Greyparrot

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Greyparrot

07.12.2023 12:31AM

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@TWS1405_2

Dr. Thomas Sowell in his book "Black Rednecks" claims the bell curve exists because of cultural disparities between Blacks in the South and Blacks in the North. It has nothing to do with genetics.

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#38

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07.12.2023 12:41AM

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@Mps1213

You can Google it and fine the answers yourself. Also, Dinesh D’Souza wrote “End of Racism” in 1995, I think, that spells it all out. It’s a good read. Check it out.

#39

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07.12.2023 12:45AM

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@TWS1405_2

I know Of and have met him. Back in my days of being on the far right. He’s a known fraudster and has been sentenced to prison for his fraudulent money donations. That alone doesn’t discredit his opinions, but I don’t think he’s someone really worth listening to anymore. I’ve been there and done all that. I was a 3rd degree proud boy before Gavin Left the fraternity and it turned into something bad. I learned my lesson with putting faith in political commentators (not Gavin necessarily) but just that type of person and social square. It usually only leads to negative, whether it’s the left or the right. I got my proud boy tattoo covered and started a new life devoted all of my intellectual energy into science and have left the political stuff behind me. So I probably will not engage with Dinesh’s book.

#40

ADreamOfLiberty

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ADreamOfLiberty

07.12.2023 01:55AM

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@Greyparrot

Dr. Thomas Sowell in his book "Black Rednecks" claims the bell curve exists because of cultural disparities between Blacks in the South and Blacks in the North. It has nothing to do with genetics.

DoubleR likes to find experts to trust in based on a track record of "results". Results are easy to find when people are producing a functional object, but the results of philosophers and most scientists are arguments.

Upon that criteria I trust Thomas Sowell more than almost anyone else, in the same league with Ayn Rand.

He simply does not say things without a good argument that he's happy to relate (as far as I know)

In this case though, that's only the start of the story. I think recent times are better explained by one simple phrase: "I'm with the government and I'm here to help"

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#41

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07.12.2023 04:07AM

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@Mps1213

Fraudster? Oh please. Give me a break. So he spent some money outside the box that got him into hot water. None of which detracts from the research and fact-based truthfulness of a book written long before that spurious allegation.

As for the rest of your life, that’s all on you and you alone. None of which debunks the fact based truths well-researched and written of in the book referenced.

Need another reading suggestion? John McWhorter, Woke Racism. His previous works include Losing the Race and Winning the Race. How about Larry Elder, Stupid Black Men: How to play the race card and lose.

#42

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07.12.2023 04:23AM

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@TWS1405_2

“Dinesh D’Souza attempted to illegally contribute over $10,000 to a Senate campaign, wilfully undermining the integrity of the campaign finance process. Like many others before him, of all political stripes, he has had to answer for this crime – here with a felony conviction.”

That is quite literally the definition of fraud.

And I agree that doesn’t necessarily prove him wrong on everything. Attack the ideas not thr man. I agree. However I just have very little interest in politics of any kind besides drug policy. So I stay out of it and let you guys we’d through all the bullshit.

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#43

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Posts: 2,186

07.12.2023 04:29AM

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@Mps1213

The book I referenced was published in 1995.

1995.

What year was all that nonsense you’re whining about?

You asked about the subject matter and I referenced a well researched book on point that is a great read.

Trying to discredit his book from 1995 with an act some two decades later is an inherent logical fallacy.

And if you have no interest in subjects other than drugs and drug policies…why did you even comment herein in the first place???

#44

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Posts: 169

07.12.2023 04:37AM

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@TWS1405_2

Mate I don’t know if you can’t read or are just willfully trying to be annoying. I have said both time i brought the following both times I brought it. “That doesn’t necessarily prove everything he did wrong, argue the ideas not the man” you’re literally arguing with the wind.

The only reason I brought it up was to explain that I know about this man, I have met this man, I have had long conversations with this man. He isn’t necessarily a shining beacon of light in the political realm. I read one of his books long ago, can’t remember which one, I’m sure if I look I can find it. I just don’t value him much, that doesn’t mean his wrong, it means I don’t find it valuable to me to read the book.

I’m also not whining I’m stating a fact. You seem like you’re in a bad mood or are just in a weird state of mind at the moment. So I will leave this thread alone for a while lol. I’m not saying the book is poorly researched, I’m not even saying the book is wrong.

I asked you to clarify what exactly you’re talking about in this thread and you said “read this book” I don’t want to read the book I just want you to clarify your position on a thread you voluntarily started. It’s like if I started my drug education thread and said “go read this textbook” that just defeats the purpose of engaging with you

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#45

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Posts: 2,186

07.12.2023 04:55AM

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@Mps1213

My reply wasn't “just read the book.”

This was my reply:

You can Google it and find the answers yourself. Also, Dinesh D’Souza wrote “End of Racism” in 1995, I think, that spells it all out. It’s a good read. Check it out.

Appears the failure in reading comprehension here is all on you, pal.

And what you claim to know of/about the man and citing it as The reason to have no desire to even look into the book (or any blips, feedback, cliff notes, etc) based on his current standing, politically or otherwise (as if politics have anything to do with race and black culture), is nothing short of a genetic fallacy. You said argue the ideas and not the man, yet you have done the latter.

And don’t even try to condescend me on reading comprehension whereas you have and continue to do with Rational_Madman. I won’t tolerate it. On that note, it appears it’s to YOU who is in a bad mood or off state of mind. Best check yourself before attempting to check others.

Yes, it would be best if you checked out of this thread. You clearly got off on the wrong foot and continued to stumble. Best try another day when you’re walking with the right foot and of sound mind.

Good night. Sir.

#46

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Posts: 169

07.12.2023 05:21AM

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@TWS1405_2

“I won’t tolerate it” lol you gonna do something about it mate. Through the internet gonna act like a tough guy.

Also You’re saying im arguing the man, even though I have clearly said nothing about discrediting him or his opinions. I just said I don’t have interest in him, I was hoping you had the ability to clarify your opinion. Which is why I clearly asked “Are you claiming that blacks in America don’t present good education? Are you saying that blacks don’t learn as well? if you’re saying either of these things, what is the supposed cause of this disparity you’re claiming exists?” I was asking what exactly you were claiming. You said google it as if google would tell me what you meant. That’s why I’m confused. I was asking what you though and what you were trying to say because it’s not abundantly clear.

Also that’s another reason I brought up reading comprehension because I’ve said the same thing literally 4 times now and you’re still trying to claim I’m discrediting him by bringing up his fraud, even though I’ve clearly stated that Im not.

I wasn’t even trying to argue with you. I was just genuinely curious what you were trying to say so I could decide on whether or not I wanted to engage with you on the topic. You have yet to clarify your position and instead are defending someone you don’t know and trying to minimize the illegal activity he committed. And I don’t even care about the illegal activity I just brought it up as something in passing “yeah I know him, I’ve met him, I’ve talked to him, I also know he committed fraud” that doesn’t mean, even though I’ve said it three times it seems like it needs repeating, that his ideas are immediately wrong or discredited because of that. I just am not a fan of him, and don’t care to read his books. So I was asking for your opinion on the thread that you yourself started, and have never clarified. If you would’ve answered my question with your opinion (which is what I was getting after) we could be talking about that. I’m beginning to believe you don’t have an opinion or answer and just parrot whatever is in the book because you can’t form your own opinion. That may not be true, but someone who can form their own opinion would’ve stated it clearly when first asked about it.

So “don’t tolerate it” all you want (whatever the hell that means on the internet) if you want to get aggressive and honestly just exhibit sad person behavior, I will have no want to engage with you any further. However if you want to clearly state your opinion we can discuss them, if I even disagree with them.

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#47

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07.12.2023 05:59AM

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@Mps1213

For someone who accused another member of not being all that intelligent, ridiculing him in fact, damn dude!!! You really need to look in the fucking mirror. The Dunning Kruger Effect is strong with you, as is the obvious intellectual cowardice. 👏🏻 Bravo!! You win the 🥇 tonight with that superfluous whiny retort. 👏🏻 Bravo!!!

#48

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Posts: 169

07.12.2023 06:12AM

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@TWS1405_2

Ah, someone calling another person unintelligent but can’t even clarify their opinion on a topic. Call me whatever you please mate. At least when someone asks me a question about my own beliefs I have the intelligence to say something other than “google it or read this book.” As if the book or google will tell me your opinion on it…

You’re the king of just saying random shit like “dunning Kruger” “genetic fallacy” etc without ever actually combatting anything anyone says. You hide behind a facade of intelligence using complex vocabulary that is almost always unnecessary. Can’t even state your opinion clearly, and then just insult someone and call them an intellectual coward even though I’m actively trying to engage with your ideas.

Like I said I apologized to RM for being a douche. So I don’t know what else you want me to do I admitted i was wrong and apologized. You on the other hand can’t even have a conversation without spinning it completely out of control and not answering questions. So call me unintelligent all you please. I have openly admitted that outside of pharmacology and neurochemistry, I am not well versed And usually don’t even engage in the conversation. And of course the one time I try to the person I’m attempting to engage with can’t even state their own opinion on the topic.

#49

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07.12.2023 06:15AM

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@TWS1405_2

I love how any time anyone says something you don’t agree with, you have to insult or call them whiny lol. I haven’t whined about anything, I’ve asked questions you can’t answer and brought up a persons fraud charges and it set you off in a tirade. You literally can’t even tell me your opinion. I’ve asked for it 3 times now and haven’t heard one. That’s a little weird don’t you think?

You are a perfect example of a right wing snowflake man.

#50

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Posts: 169

07.12.2023 06:30AM

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@TWS1405_2

I have actually discovered, thinking about it more, you’re also a perfect example of a person who isn’t worth engaging worth in 99% of conversations. I tried to engage with your ideas on this one and I never even found out what exactly they were lol.

You’ve also said stuff such as “anyone liberal is brain washed” or something very close to that. Essentially saying anyone who disagrees with you is dumb and brain washed. So you’re really just a snowflake who likes to call others snowflakes. I fuck with people here and there, but even I said RM is intelligent, I just said he’s not as intelligent as he thinks he is. So you didn’t even comprehend that part of what I was saying.

So I’m gonna go ahead and not talk to you ever again lol. Although I do truly love the “I won’t tolerate it” that almost makes you worth engaging with just for the laughs and stupidity. take it easy man, hope your life is good and you’re happy, truly. No point in us really conversing anymore. I’m sure you’ll wave a flag of victory even though you didn’t even state your opinion, but that’s fine. I’ll let you have your moment lol. Take it easy man.

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#51

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Posts: 2,186

07.12.2023 10:50PM

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@Mps1213

Ah, someone calling another person unintelligent but can’t even clarify their opinion on a topic.

I never called you unintelligent.

I have made my position clear on this subject and provided a citation(s) that substantiates it.

At least when someone asks me a question about my own beliefs (sic) I have the intelligence to say something other than “google it or read this book.”

You joined this topic a day late and dollar short. You also clearly did not read all of my comments, my opinion is crystal clear from the OP forward.

You’re the king of just saying random shit like “dunning Kruger” “genetic fallacy” etc without ever actually combatting anything anyone says.

Are you wearing waders or galoshes? The shit you're spewing is so deep you better be wearing waders.

Making an observation and describing said observation of another's behavior, attitude and/or demeanor =/= random shit. It's fact-based. It's observed. It's duly noted and identified with the description. And I will make any observation that I like in the wake of the piss poor behavior, attitude and demeanor of another.

ou hide behind a facade of intelligence using complex vocabulary that is almost always unnecessary. Can’t even state your opinion clearly, and then just insult someone and call them an intellectual coward even though I’m actively trying to engage with your ideas.

I hide behind nothing. I am very direct and in your fact about my opinions, subjective and objective. I sugarcoat nothing. Complex vocabulary? LOL!!!

Again, my opinion was stated clearly and made quite plain in fact.

No, you were not trying to engage with my ideas. Not at all. You were being just as pompous as you were with RationalMadman.

I didn't call you an intellectual coward; I said the intellectual cowardice is obvious...it's an observation of your behavior, attitude and demeanor.

You on the other hand can’t even have a conversation without spinning it completely out of control and not answering questions.

Liar.

So call me unintelligent all you please.

Never called you unintelligent.

I have openly admitted that outside of pharmacology and neurochemistry, I am not well versed And usually don’t even engage in the conversation. And of course the one time I try to the person I’m attempting to engage with can’t even state their own opinion on the topic.

I did state my opinion, you just chose to ignore it.

I love how any time anyone says something you don’t agree with, you have to insult or call them whiny lol.

Any time (= all the time)? Wrong!! You're reaching for straws and coming up incredibly short.

You really need to learn the difference between a noun and an adjective used in the context in which they are given (i.e., reading comprehension matters).

I haven’t whined about anything, (sic) I’ve asked questions you can’t answer and brought up a persons (sic) fraud charges and it set you off in a tirade. You literally can’t even tell me your opinion. I’ve asked for it 3 times now and haven’t heard one. That’s a little weird don’t you think?

Again, I have given my opinion on the subject I started, you just ignored it...multiple times now, which makes you and your behavior truly weird here, "don't ya think!"

There was no rhyme or reason to mentioning D'Souza's fraud charges. None. It was nothing short of a red herring and a genetic fallacy where the introduction of his book(s) on topic are concerned.

You are a perfect example of a right wing (sic) snowflake man.

Awesome psychological projection there, pal.

I have actually discovered, thinking about it more, you’re also a perfect example of a person who isn’t worth engaging worth in 99% of conversations. I tried to engage with your ideas on this one and I never even found out what exactly they were lol.

I'm clearly living rent free in your head right now. Three posts back-to-back instead of one thought out cogent reply. "The lady doth protest too much, methinks"

Read post #1, #7, #28, and #30

You’ve also said stuff such as “anyone (sic) liberal is brain washed” or something very close to that.

Strawman fallacy.

Essentially saying anyone who disagrees with you is dumb and brain washed.

Strawman fallacy.

So (sic) you’re really just a snowflake who likes to call others (sic) snowflakes. I fuck with people here and there, but even I said RM is intelligent, I just said he’s not as intelligent as he thinks he is.

Strawman fallacy. Ad hominem fallacy.

So (sic)I’m gonna (sic) go ahead and not talk to you ever again lol.

I won't lose any sleep over it.

Although I do truly love the “I won’t tolerate it” that almost makes you worth engaging with just for the laughs and stupidity.

Oh, boo-hoo. I'm quacking in my boots over here.

take it easy man, hope your life is good and you’re happy, truly. No point in us really conversing anymore. I’m sure you’ll wave a flag of victory even though you didn’t even state your opinion, but that’s fine. I’ll let you have your moment lol. Take it easy man.

But I did state my opinion, you just refused to read it.

You oft repeat yourself, sounding much like a broken record or a parrot. Need some saltines, perhaps? Yes. Perhaps.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

#52

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Posts: 1,905

07.14.2023 01:36PM

Blue states subsidise red states in many ways.

#53

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07.15.2023 12:56PM

Studies only matter if they promote a confirmation bias or social/political agenda, otherwise they will be cherry picked apart and ignored. This thread is proof of that. It is highly unlikely anyone who has commented has even read the book. And even if they did would it even matter? The subject matter trigger factor alone. I have no opinion as I haven't read the book. I transcended the whole race thing decades ago. All races are fucking stupid.

#54

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Posts: 11,251

07.16.2023 06:35AM

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@sadolite

I have observed that certain "ethnic groups" have very poor range of general knowledge.

Poor memory skills or just disinterest in unnecessary facts?

#55

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07.16.2023 11:38AM

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@zedvictor4

I've noticed the same thing in all of humanity.

#56

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Posts: 11,251

07.16.2023 11:50AM

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@sadolite

Is that everyone else, excluding you and me?

#57

Athias

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Posts: 3,192

Athias

07.17.2023 07:08PM

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@sadolite

Studies only matter if they promote a confirmation bias or social/political agenda, otherwise they will be cherry picked apart and ignored. This thread is proof of that. It is highly unlikely anyone who has commented has even read the book. And even if they did would it even matter? The subject matter trigger factor alone. I have no opinion as I haven't read the book. I transcended the whole race thing decades ago. All races are fucking stupid.

Well stated. And just to supplement your point, whenever these sorts of studies are conducted, they often lack sufficient controls to substantiate the conclusions talented provocateurs infer. Not to mention, if one believes that the I.Q. actually measures intelligence--the abuse of which even its creator foresaw--and not the coincidence with the standards dictated by its administration, then it's all the more reason to question the integrity of and reliance on the I.Q.

#58

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07.18.2023 11:34AM

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@zedvictor4

Ya, and a few thousand other people. The vast majority will believe and do whatever they are told and poses 0 critical thinking skills. The covid BS is proof of that.

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#59

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