Choice is clearly a factor in determining sexuality

Author: Vegasgiants

Posts

Total: 325
#31
ADreamOfLiberty
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,099
3
2
2
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
ADreamOfLiberty
3
2
2
-->
@Best.Korea
Yes but there are no brownie points for sympathizing with you. It's much easier to pretend the people with constant parades and their own month are oppressed. Nothing is quite as courageous as loudly applauding the most popular thing according to every large corporation and government.

It's so nice that the power helps you speak truth to power these days.

Ok I'll stop, but the sarcasm continues to flow through me.
#32
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 277
Posts: 8,135
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@ADreamOfLiberty
I feel oppressed by God as I cant understand why God made me this way. Sympathizing with me is unnecessary, I agree.
#33
ADreamOfLiberty
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,099
3
2
2
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
ADreamOfLiberty
3
2
2
-->
@Best.Korea
Sympathizing with me is unnecessary, I agree.
I didn't say that.

I said it doesn't bring social credit.

Those roleplayers pretend they are courageous for doing what brings praise and popularity when that is the least courageous thing one can do. I'm not a fan.

#34
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 277
Posts: 8,135
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@ADreamOfLiberty
My courage is not very high. I am afraid to speak my opinion sometimes. I dont care much about social credit, since I am not a very popular person anyway. Most people who spend some time with me end up hating me because I say weird things.
#35
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 3,247
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
Nature and nurture is my view.

Some people like the other sex,
Some people like the same sex.

Some people have sex with the other sex, and enjoy it,
Some people have sex with the same sex, and enjoy it.

Some people have sex with the other sex, and don't enjoy it,
Some people have sex with the same sex, and don't enjoy it.
. . .
#36
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 277
Posts: 8,135
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@Lemming
My nurture was very poor. I am really suprised that I turned out this well.
#37
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 3,247
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@Best.Korea
Keep up the good luck then,
Even better with introspection, determination, your own choices to nurture yourself.
#38
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 277
Posts: 8,135
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@Lemming
My determination is rather bad. I would even make pact with the devil so that I could rule the world. Sadly, the devil doesnt make such pacts anymore.
#39
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 3,247
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@Best.Korea
No worries,
'Many people, myself included would act selfish in many situations.

I just encourage you and me not make 'stupid selfish choices,
Like smuggle phones to prisoners in jail,
Not worth the risk.
. . .

Maybe I also tiny bit happy I not in selfish situation opportunity,
Fair part of me 'wants to do good by others,
Even if part wants bad/selfish choice.

'Many bad/selfish choices I'd not make though,
Would feel bad about,
But still, still others, I could see myself making selfish choice, despite feeling bad about.
. .

Maybe better still if I 'try, 'practice virtue,
But eh, maybe.
#40
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 277
Posts: 8,135
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@Lemming
Oh, I wouldnt be selfish. I would make pact with the devil so that I can rule the world to make the world a better place. I am just not sure what would I have to give to the devil so devil would let me do that.
#41
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 3,247
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@Best.Korea
Something to their, not your or worlds advantage, I imagine.

Though even if I were Christian again,
I would not believe in Hollywood Devil,
To me,
Looks misinterpretation of Christianity.
#42
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 277
Posts: 8,135
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@Lemming
Well, if I have to offer something to the advantage of the devil, it might not work out well, depending on what it is. If its just my soul, I would agree to trade my soul to improve the world.
#43
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 3,247
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@Best.Korea
'Does sound very selfless,
Very considering of others.

But I often question how far 'ought a person sacrifice.
Think it right people be 'little bit selfish.
. . .

Or maybe 'lot selfish,
Or 'complete selfish,
My view on question varies.
#44
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 11,480
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Vegasgiants
Recreational sex is simply the relief of procreational tension.

Doesn't matter what one does with ones bits. 

Or what form ones accompanying internal imagery takes.

Ejaculate......All good for now.....Piss and a shower......Go to sleep.

Until the next time.
#45
swordburial17
swordburial17's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 15
0
0
5
swordburial17's avatar
swordburial17
0
0
5
Yes choice is a factor in sexuality. But it should not be confused with gender. Have the clarity to say you are a man but you have sex with men.
#46
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 4,379
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@Vegasgiants
If you actually care to read on the issue...

"As Bailey et al. have noted,Footnote35 this evidence is amenable to differing interpretation. On the one hand, it can be confidently said that a minority of people develop a homosexual orientation as adults for reasons that might largely be referred to as “nature” rather than “nurture”. That is, genetic, hormonal and intra-uterine influences seem to be important, and social environment, during childhood and adolescence, does not influence adult sexual orientation. On the other hand, the lack of good scientific evidence to the contrary allows the possibility of continuing to claim that social environment, whether in family or wider society, may influence adult sexual orientation. It is always harder to prove the negative than the positive, and in general the science appears to support the former interpretation more soundly than the latter. Those who do adopt the latter account generally do so for non-scientific reasons."

I doubt you have any interest though, I don't really because the very notion that sexual attraction is a choice is just stupid. Sexual attraction is preceded by arousal, so if you claim attraction is a choice than arousal is a choice. And if that's the case then perform the following experiment... Decide to become aroused by your pillow. If it works, then you don't need to be in a relationship. You don't need to take anyone out on a date, you have all of your sexual needs met right before you. Half the world's problems would be solved right there. I wonder why people don't just make that choice.
#47
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 4,379
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@ADreamOfLiberty
lol leave it to you to jump right into the muck of authority pokemon. Have fun.
WebMD? Would you be more convinced if I quoted Info Wars?
#48
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 277
Posts: 8,135
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@Double_R
I used to fuck pillow when I was a kid. Not really much fun.
#49
Kaitlyn
Kaitlyn's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 857
3
3
5
Kaitlyn's avatar
Kaitlyn
3
3
5
-->
@Double_R
No scientific agency says homosexuality is not a choice.
"Experts agree that sexual orientation isn’t a choice and can’t be changed. Some people who are homosexual or bisexual may hide their sexual orientation to avoid prejudice from others or shame they may have been taught to feel about their sexuality."
I haven't read into much of the homosexual literature, but I don't understand how a self-deleting genetic expression (i.e. homosexual sex engage procreate) would be so prevalent amongst humans. In an evolutionary sense, it should be selected against because homosexual sex can't procreate, thus the genes won't be passed on.

Unless it's epigenetic and thus activates in certain conditions, how is biological deterministic homosexuality so prevalent? 
Topic's author
#50
Vegasgiants
Vegasgiants's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 1,327
3
3
2
Vegasgiants's avatar
Vegasgiants
3
3
2
-->
@Double_R
Even your evidence uses seems to be important or allows the possibility 


People who claim it can't be a choice do so out of political agenda not science 
#51
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 277
Posts: 8,135
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@Kaitlyn
If I could choose to be a homosexual, I would choose so. Then I could blame the world for oppressing me while waving the pride flag.
#52
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 4,379
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@Best.Korea
I used to fuck pillow when I was a kid. Not really much fun.
It would have been more fun if you chose to be aroused. Next time choose differently.

#53
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 277
Posts: 8,135
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@Double_R
Choosing to be aroused doesnt really work. Its like choosing not to feel pain. At best, you can drink to try and lower sexual arousal. 
#54
ADreamOfLiberty
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,099
3
2
2
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
ADreamOfLiberty
3
2
2
-->
@Double_R
lol leave it to you to jump right into the muck of authority pokemon. Have fun.
WebMD? Would you be more convinced if I quoted Info Wars?
No, stop retweeting (because that's all you're basically doing) third party assertions. I've explained to you why you're doing it (social reasoning) all wrong in detail before.


It would have been more fun if you chose to be aroused. Next time choose differently.
Not everyone is as strong in the force as the OP.
#55
ADreamOfLiberty
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,099
3
2
2
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
ADreamOfLiberty
3
2
2
-->
@Kaitlyn
No scientific agency says homosexuality is not a choice.
"Experts agree that sexual orientation isn’t a choice and can’t be changed. Some people who are homosexual or bisexual may hide their sexual orientation to avoid prejudice from others or shame they may have been taught to feel about their sexuality."
I haven't read into much of the homosexual literature, but I don't understand how a self-deleting genetic expression (i.e. homosexual sex engage procreate) would be so prevalent amongst humans. In an evolutionary sense, it should be selected against because homosexual sex can't procreate, thus the genes won't be passed on.

Unless it's epigenetic and thus activates in certain conditions, how is biological deterministic homosexuality so prevalent? 
1.) Read the selfish gene by Richard Dawkins, a gene isn't self-deleting if it can help reproduce itself. It doesn't need to do that using the exact organism of expression. For example drone hymenopterans don't reproduce, but they help reproduce the genes that created them.

2.) I am not convinced this hypothesis is correct for human sexual deviancy even if it is theoretically possible, and even if it was true the sexual deviancy would be a secondary trait; not the one selected for.

3.) oromagi has formed conclusions about this matter, however I found it nearly impossible to confirm anything related to genetics due to paywalls (I really hate the idea of paywalls protecting scientific literature)

#56
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 277
Posts: 8,135
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@ADreamOfLiberty
I simply dont have enough force power to choose to be sexually aroused and satisfied by a pillow. If I did, that would be great.

#57
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 4,379
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@Kaitlyn
I haven't read into much of the homosexual literature, but I don't understand how a self-deleting genetic expression (i.e. homosexual sex engage procreate) would be so prevalent amongst humans. In an evolutionary sense, it should be selected against because homosexual sex can't procreate, thus the genes won't be passed on.
There is no evidence that homosexuality stems from a gene that can be passed on, or at the least that it's not something carried only in certain groups which could be selected against like height or skin color. Personally, I just don't see it as any different from asking why one person likes cars while another likes motorcycles. Pretty sure no one would suggest there's a gene for that.
#58
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 277
Posts: 8,135
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@Double_R
There is a false idea that something must be made by genes or by nurture or by choice.

If we assume that the last two options are obviously excluded, false idea suggests that sexual attraction is made by genes.

The reason it is false idea is due to no evidence that person is only defined by these 3: genes, nurture or choice.
#59
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 277
Posts: 8,135
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
The proper way would be:

1) Person is homosexual from birth

2) Person is not homosexual from birth

1 means its not nurture.

2 means it is nurture.

Very simple. Even if homosexuality displays later in life, it does not automatically mean its nurture, since person can contain homosexuality from birth and only display it later in life.

However, none of the two options imply that it is a choice.
#60
ADreamOfLiberty
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,099
3
2
2
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
ADreamOfLiberty
3
2
2
-->
@Double_R
There is no evidence that homosexuality stems from a gene that can be passed on, or at the least that it's not something carried only in certain groups which could be selected against like height or skin color.
Debate @oromagi, you're so interested in third party information you might actually pay to get the studies. (yea right, you'd just find a bunch of blogs)