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@Stephen
There are currently 3.3 million Muslims living in the UK, 0.007% are supposedly not nice, that must prove the religion unpeaceful."UK home to up to 25,000 Islamist extremists who could pose threat, EU official warns"
Think Islam is a religion of peace? Think again.
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293
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@Stephen
Why would I try to defend it? All I want to do is avoid turning the UK into Saudi Arabia, the Balkans or Rwanda.You have no defence or excuses for this violent barbaric ideology ,
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@keithprosser
I really, really don't want to see Britain Islamicised.
Why not? What is wrong with Islam? What is so, so wrong with the "religion of peace" that you don't want it to take over Britain?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>If you believe I am only showing the bad side of Islam, please feel free to show me the good side.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
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@Stephen
What is wrong with Islam? What is so, so wrong with the "religion of peace" that you don't want it to take over Britain?
I am opposed to theocracy. I don't think a Christian theocracy would be any better than an Islamic one. What islam shows us is what happens when religion - any religion - breaches the division between church and state. You get social, artistic and scientific stagnation; logic and reason play a secondry role to doctrine and dogma. You can't even get a decent drink!
For all that and more which it would be superfluous to catalog theocracy has to be opposed. I do not believe in appeasing extremists but neither do i believe in riding rough shod over people's religious sensitivities. Britain is a small crowded island. We won't learn to share it by spreading inte-community distrust.
Of course some people don't want to share. But Britain aways been a melting pot - long my it remain so.
Before you ask, No, not all the wrong is not on our side but on DA I a can only addressing 'our side'.
I am opposed to theocracy.
And millions of muslims are not. Are you going to deny them their right to live in a theocracy if they choose. You don't seem to want to deny them of anything else.
I don't think a Christian theocracy would be any better than an Islamic one.
And are we a "Christian theocracy"?
What islam shows us is what happens when religion - any religion - breaches the division between church and state.
And you have the nerve to call myself and others "ignorant of Islam"?
I do not believe in appeasing extremists
That would be ISLAMIC extremist. Tell me, what is it makes these ISLAMIC extremist carry out these atrocities such as the beheadings of two Scandinavian girls very recently? The Muslims who actually committed this atrocious murder say they did it because " they [the girls] were enemies of god" : that would be the Allah of the Quran .. So what is it, do you think makes these ISLAMIC extremist carry atrocities such as these?
neither do i believe in riding rough shod over people's religious sensitivities.
Whereas Islam makes no bones about and has no problem with "riding roughshod over other "people's religious sensitivities" that are not Islamic.
Britain is a small crowded island.
It is. I have said many times now, that there are only so many places around a table, but this hasn't stopped you calling me a racist bigot and "islamophobe, has it?
Of course some people don't want to share.
We have already shared everything we have and know with the world and more! Britain has more charities that serve overseas countries than any other nation. If I had my way I wouldn't send any Islamic country a penny until they got their house in order.... but they can't, can they, keith? because they already believe their house is in order don't they?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>If you believe I am only showing the bad side of Islam, please feel free to show me the good side.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
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@Stephen
If you believe I am only showing the bad side of Islam, please feel free to show me the good side
I Did in post #211
If you believe I am only showing the bad side of Islam, please feel free to show me the good sideI Did in post #211
#211 "There are currently 3.3 million Muslims living in the UK, 0.007% are supposedly not nice, that must prove the religion unpeaceful".
It doesn't prove it is peaceful does it. You can keep going around in circles all you wish but you quoting percentages will not prove that Islam is a religion of peace. Many muslim scholars,researchers and authors simply disagree with you. this one considers you "witless".
Ayatollah Khomeini who had devoted his entire life to the study of Islamic doctrine and became the spiritual and religious leader of the Islamic Republic of Iran and the foremost religious authority, who said:
“But those who study Islamic Holy War will understand why Islam wants to conquer the whole world. Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those(who say this) are witless.”
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@Stephen
Tell me, what is it makes these ISLAMIC extremist carry out these atrocities such as the beheadings of two Scandinavian girls very recently?
ISIS/islamist propaganda?
Tell me, what is it makes most muslims not carry out any atrocities such as the beheadings of two Scandinavian girls very recently? I don't suppose the killers were arrested by the Morroccan cops to collect a medal from the president.
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@disgusted
Islam is not passive, pacifist religion in the way Christianity is. Christian teaching is to accept - even welcome - persecution because it was assumed new world order was imminent.
Islam does not teach 'turn the other cheek' - Muslims should fight in defence of their faith. It is clear that is open to a wide range of interpretations!
Radical Islamists - and Stephen - prefer to interpret it as mandating unlimited war against the infidel, but Muslims and Muslim scholars are not in unanimous agreement with that! Some of the complexity of the issue can be gleaned from the wikipedia article on jihad.
I haven't spent months researching this - but I can tell I need to and what Grugore, Stephen et al offer up is superficial and - one suspects - agenda-driven.
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@Stephen
If this is proof of Islam being unpeaceful, as you say:
“But those who study Islamic Holy War will understand why Islam wants to conquer the whole world. Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those(who say this) are witless.”
Then this is proof that christians are blood thirsty savages.
Added: 12.21.18 12:48AM--> @StephenSeveral times, Palestinians have used children as suicide bombers. And what was a child doing there in the first place? I would have shot him too.
1.4billion peaceful people and you can't see it.
Tell me, what is it makes these ISLAMIC extremist carry out these atrocities such as the beheadings of two Scandinavian girls very recently?ISIS/islamist propaganda?
So, in your opinion, it has nothing to do with Islam.
I read your link. It only appears to be telling any recruits how great a caliphate will be. More or less promising paradise here on earth and the hereafter. This does not prove Islam is a religion of peace. So what is you point.
Tell me, what is it makes these ISLAMIC extremist carry out these atrocities such as the beheadings of two Scandinavian girls very recently? The Muslims who actually committed this atrocious murder say they did it because " they [the girls] were enemies of god" :Tell me, what is it makes most muslims not carry out any atrocities such as the beheadings of two Scandinavian girls very recently?
Attempting to answer a question with questions of your own (1) is not answering the question and (2) lt does not make islam a religion of peace. (3) The only reason those muslims gave for killing those two white western girls was because " they were offence to Allah".
Islam is not passive, pacifist religion in the way Christianity is.
It was only a post or so ago that you believed christianity would be the same as Islam under a theocracy. here>
keithprosser Wrote:I don't think a Christian theocracy would be any better than an Islamic one.
Islam does not teach 'turn the other cheek' - Muslims should fight in defence of their faith.
And muslims are taught to spread Islam by the sword, which they have done and are still doing. They are taught to hate all non believers and the evidence for this is insurmountable.
Radical Islamists - and Stephen - prefer to interpret it as mandating unlimited war against the infide.
Correct, This is what the quran actually teached, you know. And I am still waiting for you to give your interpretation of the vile and telling verse that teaches IMO, perpetual was (jihad) until the whole world is converted to Islam. you keep avoiding this . why?
Quran 8:39
And fight them until there is no fitnah and[until] the religion, all of it, is for Allah. And if they cease - then indeed,Allah is Seeing of what they do.
I haven't spent months researching this -
I would never have guessed. this is probably the reason you defend it so fervently. But my guess is that your simply being contrary for the sake of it. You have no intentions of listening to or reading the words of Islamic scholars and historians; those who DO actually know what islam is about.
Such as Ayatollah Khomeini who had devoted his entire life to the study of Islamic doctrine who said:
“But those who study Islamic Holy War will understand why Islam wants to conquer the whole world. Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those(who say this) are witless.”
That ^^^^^^ will be you by admission, Keith.
but I can tell I need to
You do. Try reading The Biography of Muhammad for starters as I have recommended you do as does Dr Wafa Sultan: who says
"Islam has never been misunderstood. Islam is the problem. But no one is stating the truth. No one is taking a hard look at the root of terrorism which is the brain washing machine called Islam. Islam is not up to me, is not up to any Muslim – man or woman. Islam is exactly what the prophet Muhammad did and said. In order to understand Islam you have to read the biography of Muhammad. It is very traumatising. It is very shocking".
A God Who Hates: The Courageous Woman Who Inflamed the Muslim World Speaks Out Against the Evils of Radical Islam Hardcover – 2 Dec 2009
I suppose this Dr, in your opinion put her life on the line simply "to collect a medal from the president". Maybe a Pulitzer Prize?
and what Grugore, Stephen et al offer up is superficial and - one suspects - agenda-driven.
Attacking the person again. Are all these Muslim scholars of ISLAM "offering up superficial works" when they have studied Islam for much longer than you. Some have made it a life's work?
You have admitted above and shown yourself to be "ignorant of Islam" while calling others ignorant of Islam. This is typical of an apologists such as yourself, to judge others by your own lack of research and understanding of this Barbaric ideology.
If this is proof of Islam being unpeaceful, as you say:“But those who study Islamic Holy War will understand why Islam wants to conquer the whole world. Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those(who say this) are witless.”Then this is proof that christians are blood thirsty savages.Added: 12.21.18 12:48AM--> @StephenSeveral times, Palestinians have used children as suicide bombers. And what was a child doing there in the first place? I would have shot him too.1.4billion peaceful people and you can't see it.
(1) the Palestinian quote is not mine, so please correct that. . Though there is a point i.e tit for tat strikes between Jews and Arabs. (2) non of what you have quoted goes to prove that ISLAM is a religion of peace. Like I have said, you will keep saying the same thing while not proving islam is a religion of peace.
And I asked you AT POST 188 above for more information of the Israeli sniper deliberately targeted 4 year old palestinian child. Could you post that story up for me please.
So, in your opinion, it has nothing to do with Islam.
Is it your opinion it is only Islam?
In my view religions have no intrinsic qualities - all of them can be used to open soup kitchens or justify massacres.
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@keithprosser
So, in your opinion, it has nothing to do with Islam.Is it your opinion it is only Islam?
It is Only Islam. What else can it be? And It's not just my opinion as you have been made well aware of. But in the face of all the evidence from ISLAMIC muslim sources, you have absolutely no intention of finding out for yourself.
Listen, those muslims who murdered those two white western girls may well have been brainwashed, but you have to admit what they are brainwashed by. They say so themselves that these girls are killed for being " an offence to allah". This does not make Islam a religion of peace. does it?
And you really are struggling with this one, aren't you Keith? Surely with all the knowledge you admit to not having on this subject, you can explain a few things that are good about islam.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>If you believe I am only showing the bad side of Islam, please feel free to show me the good side.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
So show us all the good side!!
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@disgusted
"There are currently 3.3 million Muslims living in the UK, 0.007% are supposedly not nice, that must prove the religion unpeaceful".
If what you state above is correct, then I agree with you, it proves the "religion" to be "unpeaceful". But I don't think you meant to say that , did you.
The 93% that you are suggesting are peaceful, simply means that 93% of muslims in the UK are living in peace because they want and prefer peace CONTRARY to their so called religion.., It doesn't mean ISLAM is a peaceful religion.
Islam doesn't teach peace, it is as simple and clear as that. The slightest hint of "peace" in the quran is the command that MUSLIMS treat ONE ANOTHER peacefully and with kindness. UNLESS of course they decide they have had enough of the submission then:
the Prophet Muhammad said: Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then killhim."
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@Stephen
If what you state above is correct, then I agree with you, it proves the "religion" to be "unpeaceful". But I don't think you meant to say that , did you.
EVER HEARD OF SARCASM? If you think that proves an unpeaceful religion you nee to visit reality.
The 93% that you are suggesting are peaceful, simply means that 93% of muslims in the UK are living in peace because they want and prefer peace CONTRARY to their so called religion.., It doesn't mean ISLAM is a peaceful religion.
That's 99.993% 0f the Muslims in the UK are peaceful, you not only need to visit reality but a maths teacher could help.
Islam doesn't teach peace, it is as simple and clear as that. The slightest hint of "peace" in the quran is the command that MUSLIMS treat ONE ANOTHER peacefully and with kindness. UNLESS of course they decide they have had enough of the submission then:
The bible does not TEACH peace either so it is no more peaceful than the Quran. Wake up and understand that religions aren't for peace.
the Prophet Muhammad said: Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then killhim."
Neither you nor anyone else knows what the camel fucker said.
Grow up, religion is poison, religion is dangerous. Not just the one someone has told you about.
Grow up, religion is poison, religion is dangerous. Not just the one someone has told you about.
I agree. I have never denied it.
Neither you nor anyone else knows what the camel fucker said.
By that I take it, you mean Allah's messenger and perfect role model prophet Muhammad. Well muslims believe they do know what their perfect prophet said., so why don't YOU just tell them how wrong they are for a change instead of "singling out " christians and the bible? You seem you have absolutely no problem with attacking Christians and christianity, You have been doing that almost every single post you make.
I have grown up and you childishly (not very grown up that. is it) insulting the muslims perfect prophet and role model that way doesn't help the "religion of peace " get any more peaceful does it? People have lost their lives just for creating cartoons of the Prophet PBUH!!
Not a single thing you have said goes to prove ISlAM is a religion of peace. I said, you will keep going around in circles and you have.
That's 99.993% 0f the Muslims in the UK are peaceful,
Yes and? This simply means, as I have already stated that, "93% of muslims in the UK are living in peace because they want and prefer peace ".
What is your point? It goes absolutely nowhere in proving anything, least of all the Islam is a religion of peace.
you not only need to visit reality but a maths teacher could help.
Why? A maths teacher will probably agree with you on the figures, figures that I myself have not disputed. But as far as proving Islam is a religion of peace it has no bearing whatsoever. It just means that a large proportion of muslims living in the U.K are peaceful, it doesn't mean ISLAM is peaceful.
You keep going around in circles as if YOU have proved something, You haven't.
You just carry on knocking yourself out because doing so won't prove Islam is a religion of peace , either.
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@Stephen
You continue to claim 93% of British Muslims are peaceful and that is a lie, according to your statistics it's 99.993%.Why? A maths teacher will probably agree with you on the figures, figures that I myself have not disputed. But as far as proving Islam is a religion of peace it has no bearing whatsoever. It just means that a large proportion of muslims living in the U.K are peaceful, it doesn't mean ISLAM is peaceful.
What religion do those 99.993% belong to? I'm sure I could find similar percentages in most of the world, 99%+ followers of a religion are peaceful but according to numpties they are actually not peaceful. You sound like the Black Knight, it's only a scratch.
It's still not clear what 'religion of peace' means. If we clear that up it will be easier to say if Islam is one or not.
You continue to claim 93% of British Muslims are peaceful and that is a lie, according to your statistics it's 99.993%.
Ok. Forgive me. I won't dispute that figure either. So FKN WHAT??? This still doesn't prove that Islam is a religion of peace. As I have already stated this simply means that a percentage of the worlds population of muslims are living peacefully in the U.K.
What religion do those 99.993% belong to?
This percentage you are are quoting is the UK percentage isn't iT ? and you say muslims. yes here we are:
disgusted post # 211 There are currently 3.3 million Muslims living in the UK, 0.007% are supposedly not nice, that must prove the religion unpeaceful.
So that will be 99.993% of UK Muslims that belong to Islam. So a small percentage of the worlds population of muslims are living peacefully here in the UK. Ok, so? WHAT'S YA POINT? do you actually believe that by posting some percentages that you have proven Islam is a religion of peace? YOU HAVEN'T. The Home Office claims that there are between 26 and 30 THOUSAND!!!!!!! muslim jihadis roaming the streets of Britain.
You sound like the Black Knight, it's only a scratch.
Which still doesn't and won't prove anything and certainly does not prove that Islam is a religion of peace. All Circular. You are like one of those puppies who don't realise that it is it's own tail that it is chasing.
And I asked you AT POST 188 above for more information of the Israeli sniper deliberately targeted 4 year old palestinian child. Could you post that story up for me please. You have fell very silent on this issue. Is there a reason you won't back up this story?
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@Stephen
@Steven: "The Home Office claims that there are between 26 and 30 THOUSAND!!!!!!! muslim jihadis roaming the streets of Britain."
And most of the remaining rag heads support them.
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@keithprosser
It's still not clear what 'religion of peace' means.
That's just another one of those meaningless terms of endearment created by Muslims to defend their faith, like "Islamophobia"
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@Goldtop
We come in peace. Shoot to kill. We come in peace, shoot to kill. Shoot to kill men. :)
The Home Office claims that there are between 26 and 30 THOUSAND!!!!!!! muslim jihadis roaming the streets of Britain."
Aren't all Muslims "jihadis"?
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@Plisken
According to their own sacred texts, Jihad is the sacred duty of every Muslim.
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@Goldtop
I hope you woudn't say that blacks invented racism or Jews invented anti-semitism! Racism, anti-semitism and islamophobia are different faces of 'xenophobia'.
I am perfectly aware the literal meaning of 'islamopobia' is not 'anti-muslim bigotry' but it's the word that has stuck in English - unfortuntely. tt's unfortunate because now there's no good word for 'analysis and criticism of Islam in the abstract'. But however imperfect th available vocaulary is, we have to do our best with it!
Islam is not ultra-pacifist as quakerism is. Almost all muslim scholars agree that it is a duty to defend the faith and the faithful, but holy war must b defensive, not aggressive. Is islam a religion of peace or not? Yes and no.
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@keithprosser
Racism, anti-semitism and islamophobia are different faces of 'xenophobia'.
- intense or irrational dislike or fear of people from other countries.
Islam is not a person from another country, it's an ideology that we are free to criticize any way we wish, however to do so is Haram, so Muslims call it Islamophobia. Its complete bs.
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@Grugore
So says the christian who wants to kill children. What a hero.
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@Stephen
I'm not going back to find it but what you cited said the EU claimed there ere 25,000 Muslims in the UK who may pose a threat.The Home Office claims that there are between 26 and 30 THOUSAND!!!!!!! muslim jihadis roaming the streets of Britain.
In your ignorance you would not understand the difference.
Given the choice atheist would have theist children taken to camps and programmed to hate theists including their parents. What is the difference.