Merit as an aspect of Whiteness

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07.24.2023 07:18PM

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@Double_R

This doesn’t mean every white person who uses the term is racist, it means that anyone who cares about the very thing they’re preaching (merit) should understand the full connotations to the words they are using.

Only a racist thinks (or will tolerate) the idea that racial labels have connotations of virtue or vice.

Only a racist thinks (or will tolerate) the idea that concepts of virtue or vice have racial connotations.

End of story.

#32

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https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/07/acting-white-charge-origins/594130/

07.24.2023 07:19PM

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@Double_R

Do you think race resembles a theory rather than a fact?

#33

TWS1405_2

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TWS1405_2

07.24.2023 08:01PM

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@Double_R

Political paranoia nonsense. That right there is exactly what a white guilt liberal progressive would say. Or just a liberal progressive propagating the victimhood mentality. Absolutely pathetic. And racist too. Just another excuse in a litany of excuses to encourage the continued proliferation of the culture of victimhood.
So… you don’t believe there are racists out there. Is that right?

Strawman fallacy. Never said or implied any such nonsense as your asserting via a loaded question.

What I said stands uncontested.

No one is trying to co-opt “merit” for any reason. It has meant exactly what it means since the word was created. No one race owns it.

In fact, if anyone has tried to twist the meaning of the term ‘merit,’ it’s been black people. Merit was and still is presently associated with “acting white.” A well known accusation derived from black culture in their revulsion for anything white people do. An accusation you just put forth in your quoted statements I used (well, actually the entirety of your ridiculous comment).

“Sure, white kids get made fun of for being nerds, too. But as Kimberly Norwood has deftly gotten across in her study of the “acting white” charge, it’s one thing to be called a nerd, another to be told you are disqualifying yourself from your race. That lends a particular sting.”

#34

Barney

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Barney

07.25.2023 04:18AM

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@cristo71

If you were or are an educator, would you be fine with working at a school which would expect you to align with that explanation of merit in your curriculum?

For a college level class titled "Diversity, Equity, Inclusion, and Accessibility Glossary ofTerms" sure. It's how racists can twist 'merit' to be anglocentric.

If I was teaching basic English in high school, then no.

There's a big difference between common usage, and specific usage within an area of study. The second does not negate the first, it's more an expansion on how something innocent seeming can be misused. Trump's and Biden's adult-sized-children being in the white house due to their 'merit' would be an example.

I believe what they are more accurately trying to describe is nepotism, under the guise of 'merit.'

This actually reminds me of the common corruption/treason high up in the military. Having served in Iraq not long after the Dragon Skin body armor fiasco, I can fairly say the merit of the shit they forced us to use, was not in alignment with the reality of combat; rather it was in alignment with bribes from the makers of said garbage. I call it treason, because it gets people killed.

This is more commonly seen with weapon systems, where the merits they are testing for is not which is the best weapon but rather which is the pre-selected weapon they'll be paid bribes to select. They also have a magical place to test said systems, free from dust, heat, cold, etc. So the shit the jams if not cleared obsessively frequently, passes muster because they had no way to know it would be used on planet earth.

#35

Intelligence_06

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Intelligence_06

07.25.2023 05:58AM

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@ADreamOfLiberty

Well, mostly everyone is for the most part at least a little bit racist. The opposite of "racist", the absense of racism, would be a colorblind approach. I think letting race be a determinant even though not the most prevalent one is definitely better than if there is absolutely none.

#36

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07.25.2023 06:56AM

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@Intelligence_06

Well, mostly everyone is for the most part at least a little bit racist.

The kind of racism you're referring to has a lot in common with the flying spaghetti monster and is an instance of a general fallacy of appealing to bias, also known as circumstantial ad hominem.

Note also that bias is limited subjectivism, total subjectivism being the claim that reality itself has no concrete existence and thus perception is entirely biased. Subjectivism is the favored sand of those without an argument to support their opinions.

Long story short the possibility of bias has never defeated an argument and never will. If the nebulous concept of bias has no place in truth-finding then it has no use at all. So sure call me racist and think it's fine because you confess yourself, I see it no differently than a religious zealot (like BrotherD or who he pretends to be) telling me I am a pawn of the devil.

The opposite of "racist", the absense of racism, would be a colorblind approach.

Correct, and therefore the only coherent definition of "anti-racist" is someone who opposes anything but colorblindness.

I think letting race be a determinant even though not the most prevalent one is definitely better than if there is absolutely none.

Not sure what that means.

Anyway back in the day the white supremacists would and did define "whiteness" by merits (and a few vices). I was just rereading some of the leatherstocking tales and was again struck by the endless racist musings of Hawkeye. That is no doubt the way people thought in 1823: no particular malice, thinking themselves fair and objective, but disgusting racists regardless.

The only possible reason to revive virtue-race association is to lay a trap. A trap to ensnare good people into racism. Any course but complete rejection of the terminology leads to civilization crushing disaster. For a non-white to accept the terminology is to give license to reject virtue and claim all judgement based on that lack of virtue is racism. For a white to accept the terminology is to choose between valuing merit and becoming a white supremacist or rejecting merit and becoming an "ally" or in other words a self-immolating, self-hating, racist, coward.

Besides the enormous emotional damage this will cause, the only people embracing virtue in this scenario are the white supremacists. They will be the only ones producing anything or accomplishing anything. How convenient then that the doctrine of communism is so often given hand in hand with these racist psy-ops.

What does communism tell you to do? Eat the rich (basically). Kill the white supremacists that were manufactured for the purpose of having a target class, take their stuff; except communism fails because now nobody has virtue and nobody is producing anything.

This is evil, and evil must be opposed. Therefore if a "person of color" decides to be punctual, I'm not going to accuse that person of internalized racism or being a race traitor and nobody can make me.

Topic's author

#37

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Posts: 1,094

07.25.2023 12:04PM

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@Barney

For a college level class titled "Diversity, Equity, Inclusion, and Accessibility Glossary ofTerms" sure. It's how racists can twist 'merit' to be anglocentric.

To clarify, this isn’t about a specific class; this glossary is for all teachers of all subjects in the California Community College system. A history teacher is currently suing the college over it.

If I was teaching basic English in high school, then no.

So, you realize the problem, then.

I believe what they are more accurately trying to describe is nepotism, under the guise of 'merit.'

If you mean an entrenched, irreparable, white supremacy based, global scale “nepotism”, then yes, that is what they’re describing. If you mean good old fashioned nepotism, then I disagree.

This actually reminds me of the common corruption/treason high up in the military. Having served in Iraq not long after the Dragon Skin body armor fiasco, I can fairly say the merit of the shit they forced us to use, was not in alignment with the reality of combat; rather it was in alignment with bribes from the makers of said garbage. I call it treason, because it gets people killed.

This is more commonly seen with weapon systems, where the merits they are testing for is not which is the best weapon but rather which is the pre-selected weapon they'll be paid bribes to select. They also have a magical place to test said systems, free from dust, heat, cold, etc. So the shit the jams if not cleared obsessively frequently, passes muster because they had no way to know it would be used on planet earth.

When it comes to ideals, virtually none are fully realized, free from imperfections and hypocrisy. That doesn’t mean the ideal should be dismissed and replaced with something more cynical… or merely a completely different ideal.

#38

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https://uniteforchange.com/en/blog/racism/unconscious-racism/

07.25.2023 03:35PM

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@cristo71

If you mean an entrenched, irreparable, white supremacy based, global scale “nepotism”, then yes, that is what they’re describing. If you mean good old fashioned nepotism, then I disagree.

This is only the logical progression after the public was sold on the idea of "unconscious racism"

As if simply breathing air is a clear sign of racism whether you know it or not.

#39

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07.25.2023 03:48PM

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@ADreamOfLiberty

Only a racist thinks (or will tolerate) the idea that racial labels have connotations of virtue or vice.

Only a racist thinks (or will tolerate) the idea that concepts of virtue or vice have racial connotations.

All words have connotations based in their historical usage.

It’s not the concept of virtue or vice that comes with racial connotations, it’s the usage of words meant to convey virtue or vice being used to imply one race is better than another that gives it its connotation.

#40

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07.25.2023 03:48PM

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@Greyparrot

Do you think race resembles a theory rather than a fact?

I already explained what race is

#41

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07.25.2023 04:19PM

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@Double_R

I already explained what race is..

That's not answering my question.

Do you think the modern concept of race resembles a theory rather than a fact? I want to know how you view your explanation. Is it a theory or a fact?

Topic's author

#42

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Posts: 1,094

07.25.2023 06:52PM

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@Greyparrot

Ultimately, the only remotely coherent solution (and even that is giving it too much credit) is for government to put its thumb on the scales until the desired social outcomes occur— intersectionality based Marxism, in other words.

#43

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07.25.2023 08:16PM

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@cristo71

So this is why government has a motive to create a problem because the solution justifies Marxist control.

Topic's author

#44

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Posts: 1,094

07.25.2023 09:33PM

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@Greyparrot

“Never let a good crisis go to waste” strategy, yes. It doesn’t so much require that a problem be created, but it does encourage that a problem be well publicized and exploited. I think this is why issues which should ideally be bipartisan are instead highly polarizing, such as the pandemic.

#45

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07.26.2023 12:19PM

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@Greyparrot

I already explained what race is..
That's not answering my question.
Do you think the modern concept of race resembles a theory rather than a fact? I want to know how you view your explanation. Is it a theory or a fact?

First of all, your question is incoherent. “Theory” has a meaning in science which is essentially no different than a fact. Colloquially, it means hypotheses, which makes no sense in this context. Calling race a fact on the other hand, also makes no sense. Race is observable, what would it even mean to say race is (or is not) a fact? What are you talking about?

I already explained what I think of race as. Why you are trying to parse between theory or fact is beyond me and irrelevant to everything I’ve said.

In case you need the reminder;

Are there physical characteristics clearly apparent within human beings that combined with our social nature makes perfect sense to group and study the impact of throughout our history resulting in our present state… yes of course.

#46

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Posts: 22,940

07.26.2023 01:05PM

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@Double_R

Theory” has a meaning in science which is essentially no different than a fact.

They are quite different. Do you want the Chatgpt explanation as if you are explaining it to an 8 year old? It is a bit funny!

I do find it strange you are unwilling to call your beliefs on race a "theory"

Topic's author

#47

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Posts: 1,094

https://www.britannica.com/topic/race-human/Race-and-the-reality-of-human-physical-variation

07.26.2023 05:46PM

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@Greyparrot

Recently, I read somewhere the claim that “The concept of race didn’t cause racism; rather, racism preceded the concept of race.” In other words, the subordination of foreigners by colonizing nations preceded categorization according to physical traits. Here is a good Britannica article on “The history of the idea of race” if you’re interested, but it is quite lengthy:

#48

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07.26.2023 05:57PM

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@Greyparrot

They are quite different. Do you want the Chatgpt explanation as if you are explaining it to an 8 year old? It is a bit funny!

I do find it strange you are unwilling to call your beliefs on race a "theory"

I find it difficult to tell whether you are really being serious or just trolling. In my perpetual optimistism I’ll assume the former and take your comments seriously.

Since you seem to be struggling with English let me assist; whether we're talking about the scientific or the colloquial usage of the term theory, either way it is a framework for which a given set of facts are explained within.

In science it is not called a theory until that framework is accepted as fact, whereas in the colloquial sense it used far before that point more in line with the term "hypothesis".

So when you assert that race is a theory, you're asserting that race is a framework for which a given set of facts are explained.

This is incoherent as race is categorically different from a framework of any kind. Race is a categorization of people based on observable physical characteristics passed down through their lineage. That's an entirely different thing, you might as well be asking me whether the color green is small or large.

#49

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07.26.2023 06:38PM

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@Double_R

race is categorically different from a framework of any kind.

This reads like postmodern gobbledygook where facts can never be defined.

#50

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Posts: 4,246

07.27.2023 01:17PM

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@Greyparrot

Do you find the statement "race is framework for explaining a given set of facts" to be a coherent statement? Yes or no?

#51

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07.27.2023 02:00PM

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@cristo71

After reading this, I can't help but feel baited into reading something I already knew....the entire entry reads like a Dr. Sowell book!

Although.... the part about where the English thought the Irish were a different race was interesting when discussing the origins of racism.

We still regularly dehumanize people today, even though globally, the religion of racism itself is almost all but dead. How else are we going to sell the idea of war to the common people?

#52

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qb3dYaIx9t8

07.27.2023 02:32PM

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@cristo71

Here is a recent story about a rare race worshipper. They are actually mostly in Universities where they can be shielded from scrutiny.

A broken place of learning is where professors can't questioned. In a good school, we ask the hard questions and make sure our teachers are doing a good job. When they can't be checked, it feels like they can do whatever they want, and there is no pushback. Where is the challenge that spurs growth and progress? Evil thrives when good men do nothing.

Topic's author

#53

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Posts: 1,094

07.28.2023 12:05PM

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@Greyparrot

Douglas Murray observed that white is the one skin color that is studied from a perspective of negativity in universities.

A broken place of learning is where professors can't questioned.

Universities are one of those places where you can be wrong a lot and still keep your job.

30 days later

Topic's author

#54

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Posts: 1,094

08.27.2023 01:43PM

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@Greyparrot

From the memoir of American writer Thomas Chatterton Williams:

“… the most shocking aspect of today’s mainstream antiracist discourse is the extent to which it mirrors ideas of race— specifically the specialness of whiteness— that white supremacist thinkers cherish. “Woke” antiracism proceeds from the premise that race is real— if not biological, then socially constructed and therefore equally if not more significant still— putting it in sync with the toxic presumption of white supremacism that would also like to insist on the fundamentalists of racial difference. Working toward opposing conclusions, racists and many anti racists alike eagerly reduce people to abstract color categories, all the while feeding off of and legitimizing each other, while any of us searching for gray areas and common ground get devoured twice.”

#55

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