14th Amendent Bans Trumpet

Author: ebuc

Posts

Total: 71
ebuc
ebuc's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,270
3
2
4
ebuc's avatar
ebuc
3
2
4
14th amendment bans Trumpet from running or holding office.

.."...The provision they studied is Section Three of the 14th Amendment, which states that any person who took an oath to support the U.S. Constitution and then “engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof,” is prohibited from holding any government office.

.....The ban can be lifted only by a two-thirds vote by each House of Congress, according to the provision.
The 14th Amendment was adopted in 1868, in the wake of the Civil War, and is most noteworthy for extending civil and legal rights to formerly enslaved people."...
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 22,962
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@ebuc
When is Trump going to be charged for insurrection?
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 5,122
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8
-->
@Greyparrot

The trial starts January 2, 2024.
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 5,122
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8
-->
@Greyparrot

An armed but limited rebellion is an insurrection.
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 5,122
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8
-->
@Greyparrot

President Donald J. Trump continued pressuring Vice President Mike Pence to go along with a plan to unilaterally overturn his election defeat even after he was told it was illegal, according to testimony laid out in extensive detail by the House committee investigating the Jan. 6 attack.
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 5,122
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8

Lock him Up!   Lock him Up!   Lock him Up!    Lock him Up!    Lock him Up!
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 269
Posts: 7,568
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@FLRW
Trump doesnt believe in democracy. He wants to be dictator.
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 22,962
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@FLRW
When is Trump going to be charged for insurrection?
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 22,962
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@Best.Korea
Can you name one person that was convicted for insurrection due to Jan 6?
IwantRooseveltagain
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,121
3
3
6
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
IwantRooseveltagain
3
3
6
Can you name one person that was convicted for insurrection due to Jan 6?
There have been 14. Trump will be the 15th. Insurrection and sedition are essentially the same crime. It’s a distinction without a difference, but you keep declaring that you see different if it makes you feel better after voting for that moron.

“Prosecutors have now secured seditious conspiracy convictions or guilty pleas for 14 Jan. 6 defendants — five associated with the Proud Boys and nine associated with the far-right Oath Keepers — the gravest charges arising from the assault on the Capitol”

“Generally, sedition is conduct or speech that incites individuals to violently rebel against the authority of the government. Insurrection includes the actual acts of violence and rebellion. In a monarchy, sedition might refer to actions instigating the removal of a king or queen. In a constitutional democracy, sedition and insurrection refer to inciting or participating in rebellion against the constitutionally established government, its processes and institutions, or the rule of law. In other words, in the United States’ democracy, violently overthrowing the government or its institutions is overthrowing the Constitution itself. One cannot commit sedition or insurrection to “overthrow a government” while still claiming to uphold and defend the Constitution. The U.S. government, the rule of law, and the Constitution are inextricably linked, and violent attacks on any of the three are not protected actions”


FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 5,122
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8


     OMG, is Greyparrot really Rudy Giuliani?
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 22,962
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@FLRW
Can you name one person that was convicted for insurrection due to Jan 6?
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 22,962
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@Best.Korea
I find it odd that exactly zero people have been charged for the crime under Title 18 U.S. Code 2383. Much less convicted.
IwantRooseveltagain
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,121
3
3
6
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
IwantRooseveltagain
3
3
6
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 22,962
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@FLRW
I find it odd that exactly zero people have been charged for the crime under Title 18 U.S. Code 2383. Much less convicted.
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 22,962
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@FLRW
An armed but limited rebellion is an insurrection.
What about unarmed trespassing in the Capitol? Is that insurrection? Why hasn't a single person been charged for insurrection?
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 5,122
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8
-->
@Greyparrot
After months of smearing election administrators in predominately African American cities, Trump took the mic at the rally just before the Capitol siege to issue a similar, if less articulate, plea to his disciples: “If we allow this group of people to illegally take over our country because it’s illegal, when the votes are illegal, when the way that they got there is illegal, when the states that vote are given false and fraudulent information.”
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 22,962
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@FLRW
Why hasn't a single person been charged for insurrection?
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 269
Posts: 7,568
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@FLRW
That sounds like Trump was ordering his supporters to overturn fair elections. Trump still today claims that elections were rigged and that he won.
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 4,246
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@Greyparrot
I find it odd that exactly zero people have been charged for the crime under Title 18 U.S. Code 2383. Much less convicted.
Do you think the fact that no US President has ever incited an attack on the US Capitol might have something to do with that?
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 269
Posts: 7,568
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
Title: Trump's Guilt in Attempting to Overturn Elections: A Disregard for Democracy
Introduction
The peaceful transition of power lies at the core of democratic societies. It ensures that the will of the people is respected and that those elected to serve govern in the best interests of their constituents. However, the events that unfolded during Donald Trump's presidency have raised serious concerns about his guilt in attempting to overturn the 2020 elections. This essay will delve into the evidence and arguments surrounding his actions, highlighting the detrimental impact they have on democracy.

Body:
1. Subverting the Electoral Process
Donald Trump's guilt in attempting to overturn the election results is evident in his relentless efforts to undermine the electoral process. Despite no substantial evidence of widespread voter fraud, he persistently propagated baseless claims that the election was rigged. Trump's refusal to concede and his relentless legal battles aimed at overturning the results were clear attempts to delegitimize the electoral outcome and sow doubt among his supporters.

2. Encouraging Insurrection
One of the most egregious displays of Trump's guilt was his role in inciting the deadly insurrection at the United States Capitol on January 6, 2021. In a speech prior to the attack, he urged his supporters to march on the Capitol, repeating unfounded claims of election fraud. This act not only endangered the lives of lawmakers and law enforcement officers but also struck at the heart of democracy, as it sought to overturn the will of the people through violence.

3. Abuse of Power
Trump's guilt is further compounded by his abuse of power in pressuring state and local officials to overturn election results. Phone calls to Georgia's Secretary of State, Brad Raffensperger, where he urged him to "find" enough votes to change the outcome, exemplify his disregard for democratic norms. Such actions not only violated ethical standards but also undermined public trust in the electoral process, eroding the very foundation of democracy.

4. Undermining Institutions
Throughout his presidency, Trump consistently attacked democratic institutions, including the judiciary, the media, and even his own administration. His relentless assault on the legitimacy of these institutions contributed to a growing distrust among his supporters, ultimately laying the groundwork for his attempts to overturn the election. By undermining these pillars of democracy, he sought to consolidate power and maintain control, even at the expense of the nation's democratic ideals.

Conclusion
The evidence overwhelmingly suggests that Donald Trump is guilty of attempting to overturn the 2020 elections. His relentless efforts to undermine the electoral process, encourage insurrection, abuse his power, and undermine democratic institutions demonstrate a clear disregard for the principles upon which democracy is built. These actions not only erode public trust but also threaten the very fabric of American democracy. It is imperative that such attempts to overturn elections are condemned and that steps are taken to reinforce democratic values and protect the integrity of the electoral process.
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 22,962
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@Best.Korea
I apologize for any misunderstanding. As of my last update in September 2021, no one had been formally charged with the specific crime of "insurrection" in relation to the events of January 6, 2021. While many individuals were charged with various offenses related to their actions during the storming of the U.S. Capitol, the use of the term "insurrection" might be a matter of legal interpretation and propaganda strategy.
ebuc
ebuc's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,270
3
2
4
ebuc's avatar
ebuc
3
2
4
-->
@Greyparrot
I apologize for any misunderstanding.

Hey OGP, your on a roll.

As of my last update in September 2021, no one had been formally charged with the specific crime of "insurrection" in relation to the events of January 6, 2021. While many individuals were charged with various offenses related to their actions during the storming of the U.S. Capitol, the use of the term "insurrection" might be a matter of legal interpretation and propaganda strategy.
Ok, so what part of your above relates or not, to post #1  in this thread?

."...The provision they studied is Section Three of the 14th Amendment, which states that any person who took an oath to support the U.S. Constitution and then “engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof,” is prohibited from holding any government office.

Was and is Trumpet engaged in insurraction or  rebellion?

Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 22,962
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@ebuc
Was and is Trumpet engaged in insurraction or  rebellion?
If he was, I would have hoped a competent Judicial system would have arrested him on that very day (Jan 6) and charged him with insurrection.

Instead, we have corruption and incompetence.
TWS1405_2
TWS1405_2's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 2,186
3
3
7
TWS1405_2's avatar
TWS1405_2
3
3
7
-->
@ebuc
Oh joy, a bunch of pseudo constitutional law legal experts posting their non-legal uneducated subjective opinions. Now I have to correct all you on your TDS commentary.

14th Amendment, Section 3 Disqualification from Holding Office:
"No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability."

First key legal term in that criteria is "shall": Shall is an imperative command, usually indicating that certain actions are mandatory, and not permissive. 
Second key term here is "engaged": involved in activity; involved especially in a hostile encounter
Third key term, and its legal definition thereof is, "insurrection":  rebellion of citizens or subjects of a country against its government.
  • Rebellion: The taking up arms traitorously against the government and in another, and perhaps a more correct sense, rebellion signifies the forcible opposition and resistance to the laws and process lawfully issued.
The final legal term (phrase) in that criteria is "giving aid and comfort to the enemy": SECTION 3. Clause 1. Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open court.

"The two branches of treason, "levying war," and "adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort," are distinct, and do not embody synonymous actions."

"The term 'enemies,' as used in the second clause, according to its settled meaning, at the time the Constitution was adopted, applies only to the subjects of a foreign power in a state of open hostility with us. It does not embrace rebels in insurrection against their own government."

"...whereas giving aid and comfort is generally committed in connection with a war waged against the United States by a foreign power."

President Donald J. Trump did NOT (shall have) directly engage in an armed insurrection "in a hostile encounter" against the United States Constitution for which he gave oath to support. Equally, President Donald J. Trump did NOT give aid and comfort to the enemy since there was no enemy (a foreign power) to give aid and comfort to on January 6, 2020. More importantly, the United States Government via the F.B.I. emphatically declared that J6 was NOT an insurrection. Nor was President Donald J. Trump charged with inciting a riot and/or directly engaging in said riot that was facilitated by FBI agents placed within the J6 crowd and Capitol Police who aided in the breach of the Capitol. 

"The FBI has found scant evidence that the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol was the result of an organized plot to overturn the presidential election result, according to four current and former law enforcement officials."

No insurrection, as such no rebellion either.
No enemies (agents of a foreign power) were present at the events of J6 either. Therefore, no enemies for anyone to give aid and comfort thereto. 

The 14th Amendment, Section 3, does not apply where President Donald J. Trump is concerned. 
He can and will likely serve another term as POTUS.

Vegasgiants
Vegasgiants's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 1,327
3
3
2
Vegasgiants's avatar
Vegasgiants
3
3
2
To convict someone of insurrection they must be indicted tor insurrection 


That has not happened to this day
ebuc
ebuc's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,270
3
2
4
ebuc's avatar
ebuc
3
2
4
-->
@Greyparrot
@Vegasgiants
Instead, we have corruption and incompetence.

Likely this 14th amendent concern will go before SCOTUS? I think so.

TWS1405_2
TWS1405_2's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 2,186
3
3
7
TWS1405_2's avatar
TWS1405_2
3
3
7
-->
@ebuc
->
@Greyparrot
@Vegasgiants
Instead, we have corruption and incompetence.

Likely this 14th amendent concern will go before SCOTUS? I think so.
Not until a case is filed and concluded, then a writ of certiorari is filed in its aftermath. 
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 22,962
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@ebuc
TWS1405_2
TWS1405_2's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 2,186
3
3
7
TWS1405_2's avatar
TWS1405_2
3
3
7
-->
@Greyparrot
Great song.