3RU7AL's avatar

3RU7AL

A member since

3
4
9

Total posts: 14,582

Posted in:
TeacherOfPhilosophy
-->
@fauxlaw
The first rule of GNOSIS is,

DO NOT TALK ABOUT GNOSIS.
Created:
0
Posted in:
TeacherOfPhilosophy
-->
@fauxlaw
hardly. just been around the block a few more tours than you have. Not omniscient, just observant.
I thought you said you are "without limits" - - something like, "...so can we be endless. No limits, my friend. Try it."

How can your knowledge be "without limits" unless you're OMNISCIENT?
Created:
0
Posted in:
The SWIFT DEATH of QANON
-->
@oromagi
the collapse of QAnon came less than three weeks after YouTube bans and 3 months after Twitter bans.
MORE CENSORSHIP PLEEEEEEEEEEEZ.
Created:
0
Posted in:
The SWIFT DEATH of QANON
-->
@oromagi
I've never met a true believer who really stopped believing anything and I'm sure there is some core membership that will mutate and persist if only for fellowship.  The new Russian security/domainname ought to cut deep into the old Q's reputation but perhaps somebody can recreate a new version of 8kun with a new version of Q.  Q's access becomes a lot harder to pretend in a Biden administration.  So not the end of believing, no, not in the short term anyway but the steady increase in believers that has surged pre-election is a tide we might hope has turned.
Same song, new remix.

From 1993, in 7 minutes and 4 seconds, [LINK]
Created:
0
Posted in:
The SWIFT DEATH of QANON
-->
@ebuc
Is that a mental issue?
ANY DISTRUST OF ABSOLUTE GOVERNMENT AUTHORITY IS OBVIOUSLY CAUSED BY SEVERE BRAIN DAMAGE.
Created:
0
Posted in:
The SWIFT DEATH of QANON
-->
@MisterChris
While I understand the intention is to take down harmful conspiracy theories before they become an issue, it ends up backfiring.
That's the funny thing.

We only hear about the RARE EXCEPTIONS when censorship ends up "backfiring" (sample-bias/confirmation-bias/Streisand-effect).

They keep doing it because it WORKS PERFECTLY MOST OF THE TIME (that's why China is currently the envy of every government on the planet).
Created:
0
Posted in:
Morality - Is Atheism More Reasonable than Theism?
-->
@Amoranemix
Without a reference moral standard moral claims cannot be (dis)proven.
Try this,

Imagine for a moment that there is an "objective" "fixed-moral-standard", a "one true and universal good" (OFMSOTAUG) so to speak.

Let's call this AXIOM ONE.

Now, (ONTOLOGICALLY) this OFMSOTAUG is 100% real.

Let that sink-in for another second or two.

NOW the "problem" is, NOBODY KNOWS EXACTLY WHAT THAT OFMSOTAUG TELLS US WE SHOULD ALL BE DOING.

Ok, ok, that makes things a little too problematic.

Let's imagine @PGA2.0 KNOWS THE OFMSOTAUG.

So, as of this moment, @PGA2.0 is our ULTIMATE MORAL TEACHER.

The real question at this point seems to be, "why won't @PGA2.0 tell me what to do????"

pLEASE @PGA2.0, why won't you tell me what to do??

I mean, I know you said "ten (9) commandments + love thy neighbor" but what about EVERYTHNG ELSE??
Created:
0
Posted in:
TeacherOfPhilosophy
-->
@fauxlaw
...beyond the limits of perception or of logical proof,
Don't be a LOGICZOMBIE!!!

A logiczombie is someone who blindly follows logic no matter how ridiculous the conclusions may be.

For example, you can't just blindly follow logic into idiotic beliefs like determinism and solipsism. These are obviously intellectual black holes with no utilitarian value whatsoever.

A logiczombie is just a person who can't face reality and who won't be honest with themselves.

A logiczombie is someone who never takes personal responsibility for their actions and instead blames logic for their moronic and misguided attacks on well established and incontrovertible truth.

You can't depend on logic for everything. People know deep down what is right and what is wrong. You know the truth. You just need the courage to face the facts.
Created:
0
Posted in:
TeacherOfPhilosophy
-->
@zedvictor4
It simply boils down to trust I suppose....Sometimes we just have to have trust in things....
What if your "trusted experts" give you contradictory "answers"? - [LINK]

Otherwise, how would we ever get anything done.
100% confidence is not prerequisite to action.

A general in the fog-of-war is not paralyzed.

You simply gather the best reconnaissance available and make the best plan of attack based on your experience.
Created:
0
Posted in:
TeacherOfPhilosophy
-->
@fauxlaw
So, argue for your limitations; they'er yours.
I guess I'm lucky to have the honor of speaking to the only OMNISCIENT HUMAN ON EARTH.
Created:
0
Posted in:
TeacherOfPhilosophy
-->
@fauxlaw
"the capacity to spiritually apprehend divine truths, or realities beyond the limits of perception or of logical proof, viewed either as a faculty of the human soul, or as the result of divine illumination."
You're describing GNOSIS.
Created:
0
Posted in:
Morality - Is Atheism More Reasonable than Theism?
-->
@PGA2.0
You exclude that these claims can be true because you believe these ancient people cannot tell the truth or are not authorities in the matters they speak of and appeal to.
Well, it's not really so much that "they CAN'T be true" as it is that "the claims are unverifiable and NOT logically necessary".

Any assumed validity you lend to "The Bible" must apply equally to other ancient stories (like The Epic of Gilgamesh and The Vedas).

Also, you might enjoy, [LINK]
Created:
0
Posted in:
Morality - Is Atheism More Reasonable than Theism?
-->
@PGA2.0
Although beauty is not a moral value, I would still argue that its ideal is God. He is again the fixed reference point.
Wait a minute, does this mean that all the most beautiful things in the world are mirror reflections of "YHWH"?
Created:
0
Posted in:
Using the terms "racism" and "racist" makes you look stupid
-->
@Athias
Historically, these indications were used to euthanize "undesirable" demographics in the early twentieth century if I'm not mistaken.
BbbbBBbbBBbbbut it's "science"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Created:
0
Posted in:
Using the terms "racism" and "racist" makes you look stupid
-->
@Athias
This was an "interesting" watch. I'm not sure what a sample of six black women is supposed to help elucidate,
Part of what I'm trying to highlight is that there is no utility in believing that all people of similar skin-tone think and act in any sort of uniform way.
Created:
0
Posted in:
TeacherOfPhilosophy
-->
@fauxlaw
What might those be? Who says there are limits to what can be known.
THE PHANERON.
Created:
0
Posted in:
TeacherOfPhilosophy
-->
@fauxlaw
I'll give you one I know you to which youi have opposition, but I'll wager it has never been tried. Try it, honestly, completely, and without doubt. Faith.
FAITH is not a "sense".

FAITH is a simple matter of pretending a HYPOTHESIS is an AXIOM (treating a "premise" as FACT).
Created:
0
Posted in:
Morality - Is Atheism More Reasonable than Theism?
-->
@PGA2.0
A revelation God supplies those values.
But even people who call themselves, "true Christians" can't seem to agree on what these (fixed standard) "values" entail.
Created:
0
Posted in:
Morality - Is Atheism More Reasonable than Theism?
-->
@zedvictor4
So...Would believing any of this actually CHANGE how you acted in-real-life?........No.
I tend to agree.
Created:
1
Posted in:
TeacherOfPhilosophy
-->
@zedvictor4
It simply boils down to trust I suppose...
If you can't validate a source, then you can't determine if their story is factual.

The BEST you can possibly say is, "it seems likely to me personally".

It is important to maintain a constant awareness of and vigilant respect of our epistemological limits.
Created:
0
Posted in:
Morality - Is Atheism More Reasonable than Theism?
-->
@PGA2.0
You special plead for the universe causing itself, or that something was before it, or that it is eternal, depending on which stance you take.
Not necessarily.

The only "correct" answer is, "I don't know".

It is important to maintain a constant awareness of and vigilant respect of our epistemological limits.
Created:
1
Posted in:
Morality - Is Atheism More Reasonable than Theism?
-->
@zedvictor4
The GOD principle is a logical concept and worthy of consideration....But theistic belief in an unproven, specific deity, is illogical.
I'd go a step further and say that EVEN IFF something like "YHWH" was accepted as an AXIOM (ONTOLOGICAL FACT), that even then, following the supposed teachings of such a thing would be immoral (logically incoherent).

In other words, "YHWH" is a FACT and "The Bible" is 100% TRUE, now what?  Do you want everyone to stop mixing their fabrics and stone all divorcees to death?

And I would suggest that Axiom and ontology are not compatible...And similarly, ontology and fact are not compatible.
Ok, by AXIOM I meant "premise" (treated as FACT) and by ONTOLOGICAL FACT, I meant "premise" (treated as FACT).

Try to imagine.

Just for a brief moment.

That you're convinced "The Bible" is 100% TRUE.

Would you decide to follow ALL the Levitical Laws?  Or would you rather "burn in hell"?

And if you simply "trusted in Jesus" to "save you", would you bother following any of the Levitical Laws?

I mean, apparently it doesn't matter what you actually do, ALL your "sins" will be forgiven if you simply "repent" at some point.

Would believing any of this actually CHANGE how you acted in-real-life?
Created:
1
Posted in:
TeacherOfPhilosophy
-->
@fauxlaw
i had not necessarily included them, but, why not? All I'm saying is that limiting our perception of reality to 5 senses is nonsense.
Please explain what you consider a valid "sense" (that can be used to validate data).
Created:
0
Posted in:
TeacherOfPhilosophy
-->
@zedvictor4
If I feel that I cannot accept data at face value, I would have to verify utilising a reputable reference source.
How do you determine if a reference source is reputable?
Created:
0
Posted in:
Morality - Is Atheism More Reasonable than Theism?
-->
@PGA2.0
I'd like to just note here that I am a HUGE FAN of your work.

I really am.

I'm extremely impressed with your tenacity and clear thinking.

But I'm going to ask you for a big favor.

Try to imagine something.

Just for like, two minutes.

Try to imagine you are born into a remote village.

You don't know what time-period you're in and you don't know what part of the planet you're living on because you're a baby.

Now try to imagine growing up, getting older.

You learn to herd your family's goats and gather grains and carry water.

You fall in love.

You have a child.

You've never seen a book.

Is your life meaningful?
Created:
1
Posted in:
Morality - Is Atheism More Reasonable than Theism?
-->
@PGA2.0
Your worldview does not have what is necessary for the knowledge of origins. 
And neither does yours.

You've simply built a framework that re-labels the words "I don't know" (replacing them with "YHWH").
Created:
1
Posted in:
Morality - Is Atheism More Reasonable than Theism?
-->
@PGA2.0
Perhaps my favourite evidence for the existence of God is the prophetic argument. I have not found an atheist on this forum (or any other) that understands the evidence's complexity and proofs.
A book's predictive power is no measure of its infallibility.

A meteorologist can still lie to you.
Created:
1
Posted in:
Morality - Is Atheism More Reasonable than Theism?
-->
@PGA2.0
The Christian worldview already has what is necessary, an omniscient, omnipotent, omnibenevolent, immutable, eternal Being [OOOIEB]. 
Your OOOIEB is logically incompatible with human agency.
Created:
1
Posted in:
Morality - Is Atheism More Reasonable than Theism?
-->
@PGA2.0
I am saying that without a reasoning being who created the universe, the universe is without reason for its existence.
Oh boy.

Is that what you're hung up on?

The teleological fallacy?
Created:
2
Posted in:
Using the terms "racism" and "racist" makes you look stupid
-->
@MgtowDemon
You might enjoy this, [LINK]
Created:
0
Posted in:
Using the terms "racism" and "racist" makes you look stupid
-->
@Athias
And what does taking the "average I.Q." and juxtaposing them among your so-called "races" intend to indicate?
Great question.
Created:
1
Posted in:
Using the terms "racism" and "racist" makes you look stupid
-->
@Athias
I do know. I know intelligence is abstract. And that intelligence is informed by definition only.
Imagine for a moment that a tribe of Yalyuwara were to evaluate your "general intelligence" and or "general fitness".

I think most of us might look like complete idiots to them.

I think most of us might be unable to find our way back to camp by ourselves.

I think most of us might be unable to find water on our own.

I think most of us might be unable to avoid common predators and poisonous plants and insects, if left to ourselves.

When "evaluating" something (or someone) 99.99% of the "problem" is predetermined by the selection of the measuring method itself (and the creator of the measuring method).
Created:
1
Posted in:
Using the terms "racism" and "racist" makes you look stupid
-->
@Athias
We're not writing research papers. We're having a discussion. Had you read your own source, you would've noticed where it was from, rather than accuse me of "plagiarizing" it from a source, which, by the way, you failed to identify correctly. Furthermore, if I had intended to "plagiarize," then quoting the content would've been unnecessary. I would've simply passed it off as my own unaltered.
COPYRIGHT = CENSORSHIP
Created:
1
Posted in:
Using the terms "racism" and "racist" makes you look stupid
-->
@Athias
Appropriate is substantiated in that, for example, lumping all Japanese, Chinese, Malaysians, Koreans etc. into Asian, isn't as accurate as dividing them further. Of course, there is infinite regression until the individual has his/her group, but the same logic applies to colours, and we take no issue calling things red, orange, yellow etc. (i.e. what is considered to be appropriate).
Argumentum ad antiquitatem. The trends and traditions one indulges (i.e. parsing colors) does not provide substantiation to "appropriate."
Excellent point.
Created:
1
Posted in:
Using the terms "racism" and "racist" makes you look stupid
-->
@Athias
What I attempted to convey to you is that skin colour alone doesn't determine race all that well. It's fine for Europeans and Africans. It's not fine for Africans and Australian Aboriginals.
So "Black" is not a race.
BINGO.
Created:
1
Posted in:
Using the terms "racism" and "racist" makes you look stupid
-->
@Athias
First, objectivity is irrational; Second, regardless of the source you cite, it will be biased.
100% THIS.
Created:
1
Posted in:
Using the terms "racism" and "racist" makes you look stupid
-->
@MgtowDemon
Voting is difficult, has a high degree of accountability, and it time-consuming.
100% THIS.

My "self-moderated" debate proposal solves this "problem".
Created:
0
Posted in:
Using the terms "racism" and "racist" makes you look stupid
-->
@HistoryBuff
"the belief that different races possess distinct characteristics, abilities, or qualities, especially so as to distinguish them as inferior or superior to one another."
When you say "race" do you actually mean "skin-color"?
Created:
0
Posted in:
Using the terms "racism" and "racist" makes you look stupid
-->
@Conway
Only a racist can have racial hatred, but not all racists are hateful.  There is an obvious distinction.
Please present your personally preferred definition of "racist".
Created:
0
Posted in:
Morality - Is Atheism More Reasonable than Theism?
-->
@zedvictor4
Atheists  believe in atheism .....That is a contradiction in terms....Atheists lack belief in concepts.
I'd say more specifically, they simply do not identify themselves as "THEISTS" (regardless of any specific belief or non-belief).

Atheists might accept logical concepts as worthy of consideration....But they do not believe in them.
I'm not sure this particular statement applies to "ATHEISM" specifically (maybe you're thinking of "SKEPTICISM").

The GOD principle is a logical concept and worthy of consideration....But theistic belief in an unproven, specific deity, is illogical.
I'd go a step further and say that EVEN IFF something like "YHWH" was accepted as an AXIOM (ONTOLOGICAL FACT), that even then, following the supposed teachings of such a thing would be immoral (logically incoherent).

In other words, "YHWH" is a FACT and "The Bible" is 100% TRUE, now what?  Do you want everyone to stop mixing their fabrics and stone all divorcees to death?
Created:
1
Posted in:
Morality - Is Atheism More Reasonable than Theism?
-->
@PGA2.0
In a meaningless universe where you are a biological bag of atoms and derive your morality from genetic and environmental factors, why is it wrong to torture or kill innocent human beings?
Have you ever heard of Kant's categorical imperative? - - [LINK]
Created:
1
Posted in:
Morality - Is Atheism More Reasonable than Theism?
-->
@PGA2.0
2) If a psycho-killer takes an innocent life (allows evil people to take the life of an innocent child, for instance) because of the sins of others and their barbarity, that life will be restored to a better place, a place free of moral corruption and evil.

This statement basically exonerates the slaughter of every single "innocent".
Created:
1
Posted in:
ATHEIST =/= CREED
-->
@amandragon01
A logically-coherent god (like Spinoza's god) cannot be ruled out.

According to your personally preferred definitions, can someone be a DEIST & an ATHEIST at the same time?
Created:
0
Posted in:
TeacherOfPhilosophy
-->
@fauxlaw
prevent "geocentrism" style mistakes 
wrong question. Is there inherent prevention in any definition of any word?  No.
The only reason to define a word is to prevent misunderstanding.

If you can't explain how "geocentrism" DOES NOT qualify as a "FACT" (based on your personally preferred definition) THEN your claim carries no weight.
Created:
1
Posted in:
TeacherOfPhilosophy
-->
@fauxlaw
Do you deny that we may have more senses at our disposal than five?
Are you including "proprioception" and "logic"?
Created:
1
Posted in:
Scientific Racism
-->
@secularmerlin
Created:
0
Posted in:
Morality - Is Atheism More Reasonable than Theism?
-->
@PGA2.0
I'm afraid that rights are mostly granted by mob democracy. A man's right to life and liberty can be taken away by any group larger, better armed and/or better organized than his. The mechanism is and always has been concerned citizens fighting against the status quo for the betterment of the status quo. [**]
Created:
1
Posted in:
TeacherOfPhilosophy
-->
@ebuc
I have no idea what  you are actually intending to communicate, in regards to anything Ive stated in last post.
Space is not infinitely (or indefinitely) divisible.

There is a smallest possible denomination.

It's called a planck-length. [**] & [**]
Created:
1
Posted in:
TeacherOfPhilosophy
-->
@zedvictor4
Facts exist irrespective of unknowns.
How do you personally distinguish a FACT from a LIE?
Created:
1
Posted in:
ATHEIST =/= CREED
-->
@amandragon01
Do you believe a god or gods exist? 
A logically-coherent god (like Spinoza's god) cannot be ruled out.

A logically-incoherent god (like "YHWH") is impossible.
Created:
0