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3RU7AL

A member since

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Total posts: 14,582

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Hunter coverup getting scary.
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@oromagi
I am still fuzzy on the term, but when we talk about cancellation "culture" I am seeing a lot examples (like Trump above) calling for boycotts & protests but very little action.  Actual censorship seems to be a very tiny subset of the behavior people are calling cancel culture.
I believe it's the idea that if someone crosses-the-line, they should be unemployable and all of their "work" should be taken off the shelves and disavowed (like Charlie Rose).

Just imagine what would happen if Steven Spielberg and Tom Hanks got canceled?  Like half of netflix would disappear!

### CANCEL TOM HANKS AND STEVEN SPIELBERG
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Flat Earth...
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@FLRW
Around 350 BC, the great Aristotle declared that the Earth was a sphere (based on observations he made about which constellations you could see in the sky as you travelled further and further away from the equator) and during the next hundred years or so, Aristarchus and Eratosthenes actually measured the size of the Earth!
What you call "history" is just a retcon brainwashing campaign orchestrated by teh NASA!!!
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Flat Earth...
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@zedvictor4
...the Earth was known to be spheroid long before  the U.S.A. or N.A.S.A. were first thought of.
That's what NASA wants you to think!!

Don't you know they control all the history textbooks!!

It is actually quite impressive they've managed to pull off this massive brainwashing scam on a shoe-string budget of only 0.5% of the federal budget. [**]
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Hunter coverup getting scary.
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@ILikePie5
From your link,

"While Hunter has been accused of using his family name to help with deals with Ukrainian and Chinese firms, there is nothing on the laptop to implicate Joe Biden in any wrongdoing." [**]

So...
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@oromagi
Impressive "rush-to-disqualify".
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Hunter coverup getting scary.
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@Conway
The reality in my observation is that many Americans see the flag as representing the shared ideas which bring us together as a nation,
Maybe not so much.

The sort of (white) people who clamber to distinguish themselves as the True Americans have weaponized the flagmanipulating it to antagonize those they believe to be less American. [**]
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Hunter coverup getting scary.
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@Conway
...hundreds of thousands of reasonable people are invalidating the impeachment proceedings...
Citation please.

And, I'm pretty sure you know that impeachment procedures are 100% the sole discretion of the sitting congress.

Republicans can impeach Clinton for ANY REASON THEY SEE FIT.

Democrats can impeach Trump for ANY REASON THEY SEE FIT.

That's the hilarious thing about DEMOCRACY.

DEMOCRACY = MOB RULE

LAW = CODIFIED MOB RULE
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Debate Resolution: "The United States ought to institute a federal jobs guarantee"
Debate Resolution: "The United States ought to institute a federal jobs guarantee"

PRO:

Speaking from a purely economic perspective (culturally we conflate money with morality), homeless people and prisoners cost the state roughly $20,000.00 per person per year.  School children in the USA receive a subsidy of roughly $15,000.00 per child per year.  Homeless people & prisoners & school children are unproductive members of society (jobless).  It would be a great boost to the economy (culturally we conflate money with morality) if we found some jobs for these individuals (since we also tend to conflate laziness with immorality).

Of course a "jobs guarantee" probably doesn't mean "mandatory labor camps".

CON:

Speaking from a purely economic perspective (culturally we conflate money with morality), a deep, primal fear of becoming homeless and a deep, primal fear of being sent to prison contributes immensely to economic productivity.  This fundamental and essential primal fear is what keeps the working class (80% of the country) going to jobs they hate, overlooking safety violations, taking verbal abuse from customers and managers, and accepting extremely low wages (keeping consumer prices competitive).

If these workers were "guaranteed a job", then they would walk away from these wretched, dead-end, often physically dangerous jobs (with no retirement or health guarantees) and the nation's entrepreneurs would go out of business.  These businesses would probably be replaced by government-run replacements because the government would have a huge surplus of employees due to their "jobs guarantee".  This would lead to a totalitarian state, and everybody knows that totalitarian state = teh evil.

Therefore, "The United States ought to institute a federal jobs guarantee" = "totalitarian state" = evil.
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Need some help with running a moral skepticism kritik at an LD Debate Event
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@Username
Hume's Guillotine: you can NEVER logically derive an "OUGHT" from an "IS".

There's your kritik.
I think I know what you mean, but elaborate?
Examples of "IS" statements,

"Snow is cold"
"It snowed yesterday"
"The sun will rise tomorrow"

These can be deduced by pure logic (based on ontological definitions).

Examples of "OUGHT" statements,

"You should put on a coat"
"Murder is wrong"
"Everyone deserves to be happy"

These can NEVER be deduced by pure logic (although many people strongly and even sincerely believe these examples of "ought" statements are "facts" they are OPINIONS).

For example,

Most people intuitively think you can make the apparently "logical" statement,

(IFF) snowing (THEN) it's cold outside (THEREFORE) you ought to put on a coat

But as a logical statement, it actually relies on some hidden assumptions.

Without assuming at least one ought statement, you can't derive another ought statement based on pure logic.

This is the core of the "IS"/"OUGHT" problem.

You can never derive an "ought" if you are restricted to only (ONLY) factual ("is") statements.

B: you "ought" to put on a coat.
A: why should I put on a coat?

B: because it "is" snowing.
A: why does snowing = coat?

B: snow "is" cold.
A: why does cold = coat?

B: (IFF) cold outside (AND) you go outside without a coat (THEN) you will also become cold
A: why should I take action to avoid becoming cold?

B: (IFF) you get too cold (THEN) you will die
A: why should I take action to avoid my own death?

B: I want you to live (this is an opinion, not a fact) and you "ought" to also want to live (this is an opinion, not a fact).
ALL -PRESCRIPTIONS- ("OUGHT" STATEMENTS) ARE (FUNDAMENTALLY) OPINIONS.
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Hunter coverup getting scary.
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@oromagi
Noam Chomsky Gets "Canceled" For Signing Letter Alongside Hypocrites

Noam Chomsky on the Harper's Letter and Cancel Culture

Noam Chomsky Gets Canceled for Being Against Cancel Culture
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Hunter coverup getting scary.
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@Greyparrot
Cancel culture is disgusting, uncivilized, and EXTREMELY democratic.
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Should We Wear Masks?
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@FLRW
On the other hand, the risk of the healthy person contracting COVID-19 from a masked, infected person is 5 per cent.
The diagram in the illustrations makes the following claims: There is a 70% contagion probability between a COVID-19 carrier not wearing a mask and a non-carrier wearing a mask; a 5% contagion probability between a COVID-19 carrier wearing a mask and a non-carrier not wearing a mask; and a 1.5% contagion probability between a COVID-19 carrier and a non-carrier both wearing masks.

This claim is not substantiated. Although some health authorities recommend the use of masks to help limit the spread of COVID-19, Reuters could not find any evidence to back up these percentages.

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) told Reuters via email that wearing masks is recommended as a way of strengthening social distancing, but they do not have data to measure how this affects the risk of transmission.

“CDC can’t confirm the accuracy of the numbers reflected in this image. Currently we are not finding any data that can quantify risk reduction from the use of masks”, a CDC spokesperson told Reuters.

The CDC has publicly said that cloth face coverings are “not intended to protect the wearer, but **may** prevent the spread of virus from the wearer to others” ( here ). [LINK TO SOURCE]
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@Greyparrot
Elite politicians cant be allowed label and censor everything they don't like as a "theatrical fire"
I love the term "theatrical fire".

And I agree with you.
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Should We Wear Masks?
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@FLRW
There is  a 1.5% contagion probability between a COVID-19 carrier and a non-carrier both wearing masks
I'd love to see some data comparisons.

Do you have any links?
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Hunter coverup getting scary.
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@oromagi
Reporter reports, "I found a smoke machine!!"

Panicked partisans yell, "just because you found a smoke machine doesn't mean there's not ALSO a real fire!!!"
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Hunter coverup getting scary.
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@Conway
I still can't tell exactly what anyone's supposed to "investigate".

Go to the source?

The source is already spouting off full-bore, no need to "interview" them.

Go to the "evidence"?

Well apparently the "evidence" is unverifiable.
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Hunter coverup getting scary.
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@Greyparrot
In your opinion, what's the worst-case-scenario IFF Hunter = Criminal?
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@oromagi
To clarify, Guiliani  is shouting FIRE! in a crowded fire house. 

The moviegoers look around, see no fire, and tell Guiliani to shut the fuck up.   

Guiliani stands on his chair and weeps " I will not be censored!  I myself saw a picture of the fire on a friend of a friend's laptop!" 

The moviegoers say "well, where's this fire now?"

Tucker Carlson stands up and says, "It's true! I found an ember that proves there is a fire!"

The moviegoers say, "well, what ember"

Tucker screams, "It's gone!  Somebody stole my ember!  I am being censored by movie theater management!"

The moviegoerslook around again, see nothing,  yell  "sit down and shut up, please."

Greyparrot posts to DART, "Wow, this fire at the movie theater is getting out of control!"
I'm going to get this framed.
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Hunter coverup getting scary.
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@Greyparrot
...and calls were made to censor Chomsky over this.
This is priceless.
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Should We Wear Masks?
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@sadolite
Prove they help showing irrefutable science.
Let's start with ANY science.
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Should We Wear Masks?
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@BearMan
Ok lets try the piss test.

First, both of us are naked, I pee into a vaporizer and then vaporize the pee, you smell the full pee and you choke because you're allergic.

Second, you have a mask on, I pee into a vaporizer and then vaporize the pee, you can still smell the full pee and you still choke because you're still allergic.

Last, both of us have masks on, I pee into a vaporizer and then vaporize the pee, you can still smell the full pee and you choke because you're allergic.


Boom.
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Should We Wear Masks?
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@BearMan
Viruses always travel together, there is no such thing as a singular virus infecting you. Masks help.
A virus particle is smaller than a smoke particle.

Does your mask protect you from smelling smoke?

Well then, your mask CAN'T protect you from a virus.
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Should We Wear Masks?
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@sadolite
It's as though people think the mask works in one direction and not the other. Mind boggling.
Nice.
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@oromagi
It helps if you read the article while imagining hearing it in a monotone whisper.
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Should We Wear Masks?
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@BearMan
and the main point isn't even to protect you, it's to protect others.
Until when?

Why don't we wear masks all the time in order to prevent the 10,000+ seasonal flu deaths every year?

Why don't we outlaw all (non-essential) scented deodorants and perfumes and air-fresheners that can trigger life threatening asthma attacks?
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Should We Wear Masks?
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@BearMan
I don't want to get into this discussion again, it's just too obvious that we should wear masks.
Simply claiming that something is "obvious" does not magically make it "fact".
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Jousha Bach > AI > Nukes > Finite Automata > Subtrata
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@ebuc
Since all our institutions tend to decline until they fail and get replaced, I think we must limit ourselves to technologies that have an acceptable cost of failure."...
Modular microreactors have an "acceptable cost of failure".  [LINK]

Nuclear produces (by orders of magnitude) much LESS waste (and environmental impact) per unit of energy produced than any other energy production method.
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Jousha Bach > AI > Nukes > Finite Automata > Subtrata
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@ebuc
2} integrity, not only of the institution but of the individual, ex we have the institution { CIA or Israel or both }
An easy solution to this "problem" is to place all governmental systems on a public (decentralized) blockchain with 100% transparency.
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Should We Wear Masks?
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@BearMan
And almost every source besides that says it does.
Citation please.
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Hunter coverup getting scary.
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@Greyparrot
“If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all.”
100% THIS.
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Should We Wear Masks?
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@BearMan

Surgical masks are made in different thicknesses and with different ability to protect you from contact with liquids. These properties may also affect how easily you can breathe through the face mask and how well the surgical mask protects you.

If worn properly, a surgical mask is meant to help block large-particle droplets, splashes, sprays, or splatter that may contain germs (viruses and bacteria), keeping it from reaching your mouth and nose. Surgical masks may also help reduce exposure of your saliva and respiratory secretions to others.

While a surgical mask may be effective in blocking splashes and large-particle droplets, a face mask, by design, does not filter or block very small particles in the air that may be transmitted by coughs, sneezes, or certain medical procedures. Surgical masks also do not provide complete protection from germs and other contaminants because of the loose fit between the surface of the mask and your face.
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Hunter coverup getting scary.
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@HistoryBuff
This entire "story" is meaningless. I don't understand why the right thinks this is some huge scandal. 
Yep.
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@oromagi
In 1913, somebody falsely yelled "fire" at a packed Christmas Party in Michigan and 73 people were crushed to death in the panic.
It still feels like you're missing the point.

What if there really was a fire.

Would yelling "fire" cause the same number of deaths (as not-yelling fire)?

Exactly like this "HUNTER BIDEN" "problem", it's the individuals who PANIC that are "the problem" that need to be solved.
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@oromagi
The shouting FIRE analogy originates from a Supreme Court argument adjudicated by Oliver Wendell Holmes, who used the analogy as an example of speech that First Amendment does not protect.
And that's exactly why I always hate that analogy.

The patrons should be smart enough to look around and see if there's any smoke or anything without flying into a panic.

ALSO,

Do people typically panic and trample each other when their fire-alarm/smoke-alarm system is unexpectedly tripped?

Wouldn't this "danger" kind of make all fire-alarm/smoke-alarms counter productive??
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Hunter coverup getting scary.
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@oromagi
"Where there's smoke, there's fire" is the relevant aphorism.
Have you ever tried to start a fire from an ember?

You get a lot of smoke, but technically you only get fire if you know what you're doing.

Also, you can burn pop-corn in a microwave and get a lot of smoke with no fire.

Also, sometimes you can mistake clouds of dust for smoke (without fire).

Even a smoke machine doesn't need fire in order to generate an alarming amount of smoke.

Also, dry ice.

Basically, SMOKE =/= FIRE
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Should We Wear Masks?
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@BearMan
The literal problem is that people still refuse to wear masks that ARE DESIGNED to filter COVID-19.
I am very interested in purchasing a mask specifically DESIGNED to filter COVID-19.

Please let me know where I can find one.

This is urgent.
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Should We Wear Masks?
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@sadolite
The literal problem you state is complete BS. There is not one credible scientific study that shows wearing masks that do nothing to filter a virus does anything. You are told it does and you believe it. I defy you to show any scientific study that shows definitively that masks not designed to filter viruses in fact have any effect at filtering them. You walk around people without  masks all the time, if what you say was true you would have gotten sick by now. The absurdity of what you and the CDC call reducing the spread is laughable. People sitting in the same room while  others standing ten feet away, some wearing a mask  and the others not is absolutely laughable. Any virologist would just look at you like you were insane. Just because you repeat something over and over does not make it true nor does someone telling you something over and over. The real science and the real controls are in SWEDEN. Sweden's approach blows everything you say to shreds. Don't even try to dismiss Sweden. That is a control study of over 10 million people. There is no difference in infection rates and they do no lockdowns and don't require masks. Again that is a control sample of 10 million people. I will wait for your definitive scientific proof that wearing masks that do nothing to filter a virus reduces the spread of a virus. Oh and your attempts to totally dismiss Sweden.
Well stated.
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@oromagi
Remember when McCarthy waved a piece of paper that he claimed had a list of 205 communists working for the State Dept. ? The fact that the paper was never submitted into evidence or ever seen again was irrelevant, the McCarthyists were required to believe in red panic and so the witch hunt proceeded.
All smoke and no fire.
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Need some help with running a moral skepticism kritik at an LD Debate Event
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@oromagi
Isn't much of the point of govt to carry out efficient, profitable measures that would be considered immoral if conducted without govt sanction?
Nailed it.

Govt is fundamentally hypocritical.
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Need some help with running a moral skepticism kritik at an LD Debate Event
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@Username
Debate Resolution: "The United States ought to institute a federal jobs guarantee"

PRO:

Speaking from a purely economic perspective (culturally we conflate money with morality), homeless people and prisoners cost the state roughly $20,000.00 per person per year.  School children in the USA receive a subsidy of roughly $15,000.00 per child per year.  Homeless people & prisoners & school children are unproductive members of society (jobless).  It would be a great boost to the economy (culturally we conflate money with morality) if we found some jobs for these individuals (since we also tend to conflate laziness with immorality).

Of course a "jobs guarantee" probably doesn't mean "mandatory labor camps".

CON:

Speaking from a purely economic perspective (culturally we conflate money with morality), a deep, primal fear of becoming homeless and a deep, primal fear of being sent to prison contributes immensely to economic productivity.  This fundamental and essential primal fear is what keeps the working class (80% of the country) going to jobs they hate, overlooking safety violations, taking verbal abuse from customers and managers, and accepting extremely low wages (keeping consumer prices competitive).

If these workers were "guaranteed a job", then they would walk away from these wretched, dead-end, often physically dangerous jobs and the nation's entrepreneurs would go out of business.  These businesses would probably be replaced by government-run replacements because the government would have a huge surplus of employees due to their "jobs guarantee".  This would lead to a totalitarian state, and everybody knows that totalitarian state = teh evil.

Therefore, "The United States ought to institute a federal jobs guarantee" = "totalitarian state" = evil.
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Need some help with running a moral skepticism kritik at an LD Debate Event
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@Username
Lol how do you get moral skepticism from that topic? I think I'm missing the angle
"ought" is in the resolution. If we don't ought do do anything, we don't ought to institute a jobs guarantee. My impression is that it'd work the same with any normative topic. 
You've already solved it.

Hume's Guillotine: you can NEVER logically derive an "OUGHT" from an "IS".

There's your kritik.

It never really made sense for me until I watched this, [LINK]
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Morality - Is Atheism More Reasonable than Theism?
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@PGA2.0
P.S. Magnetic north isn't a fixed reference point - it moves. 
True north or the North Pole is.
Does your compass point to "true north"?

No.  It points to magnetic north.

Does magnetic north change by hundreds if not thousands of miles without warning?

Yes.  Yes it does.

Does this mean that your compass is unreliable & utterly useless?

No.  Of course not.
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Morality - Is Atheism More Reasonable than Theism?
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@PGA2.0
What practical value is an abstract "truth" if nobody knows what it is?
Why do you think no one knows and how do you know that?

God is able to say what He means. 
(IFF) "the ("objective") truth" is so crystal clear (THEN) why are there literally thousands of flavors of Christianity?

(IFF) theological variation is so slight & unsubstantial (THEN) why did competing denominations historically slaughter each other?

Why can't the Catholics, Baptists, Lutherans, Unitarians, Eastern Orthodox, Methodists, Presbyterians, Anglicans, Calvinists, Seventh-day Adventists, Mormons, Jehova's witnesses, Anabaptists, Hussites, Quakers, Pentecostals, Messianic Jews set aside their slight & unsubstantial differences of opinion and UNITE under one cohesive and "objective" truth?

Even iff someone was actually convinced that there was an "objective" moral code, which flavor of Christianity holds the "one true and perfect interpretation"?
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Morality - Is Atheism More Reasonable than Theism?
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@BrotherDThomas
And if they give birth, I will slaughter their beloved children. (Hosea 9:11-16)
I'll just save this for later...
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I am about to become a monk ama
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@Mopac
Wise words of wise wisdom.
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Morality - Is Atheism More Reasonable than Theism?
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@PGA2.0
Why can't Christians agree?
First off, do you believe truth is discernable? 

The problem is that way too often we collapse passages, ignore context, ignore the relevant audience of address, ignore time statements, misunderstand the difference between biblical culture and our own, and a whole host of reasons. Having said that, Scripture makes it clear there is a correct way i=of interpreting God's word. You have to understand what the Author is saying to get His meaning. That means not reading into His words something He has not said or does not convey. You also have to build line upon line, precept upon precept. An isolated passage can very often lead to a pretext.
If all Christians are reading the same book and speaking to the same "YHWH" shouldn't they all come to exactly the same "objective" conclusions?

Are all Christians who disagree with you less moral and or less intelligent than you?
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Morality - Is Atheism More Reasonable than Theism?
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@PGA2.0
Did morality exist before Abraham?
Yes.
Great.

So, we don't need all this special literature in order to be moral.
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Morality - Is Atheism More Reasonable than Theism?
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@PGA2.0
You used your own reasoning and moral instinct to VALIDATE "the gospel message".
You have to believe that God exists before you will come to Him.
You can only believe if you are CONVINCED.

You and you alone VALIDATE "the gospel message".
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Morality - Is Atheism More Reasonable than Theism?
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@PGA2.0
Do subjective standards meet what is necessary? If you think so, explain how. 
Each individual is the arbiter of their own moral instinct.
Then I say what is say is morally wrong!
Yes.  For you and those you are responsible for.

You never explain why your relative standard is or can be better than anyone else's?
You never explain why your "objective" standard is or can be better than anyone else's?

Is it because you believe it?
Is it "objective" because you believe it?

Does that make something good?
Does your OPINION that it is "objective" make something good?

Then two opposing and contrary standards (a logical absurdity) can both be right depending upon who holds what view?
(IFF) you have a son, and you call this son "son" (THEN) should everyone on earth call your son "son"?

Is one language "objectively wrong" and another language "objectively right"?

Without a fixed identity for a moral prescription, what makes it good/right?
The exact same thing that makes your moral prescription good/right (4 U).

Your moral instinct.

Is it force? If you force me to believe 'it' does that make it good/right?
Good luck trying to force someone to believe something.

That's not how belief works.

If Kim Jong Un kidnaps you and forces you..., is that then good/right? He believes so. Why is your belief any 'better' than his? 
Because it's mine.

I am the ultimate authority over my own body and mind.
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Morality - Is Atheism More Reasonable than Theism?
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@PGA2.0
We are to drive out sinful practices or deeds from our lives so that they do not rule over us so we can have a close relationship with God.
Sounds good.

So you have absolutely no concern about what consenting adults do with and or to each other in the privacy of their own homes?
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