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@Jarrett_Ludolph
-The earth is young(6,000-10,000 old) years/old ( about 4.5 billion years old)
Well, nobody "really knows" how old the earth is, but we have some useful models that estimate coalescence about 4.5 billion years ago.
As long as these models continue to produce testable hypotheses we should continue to refine them (without mistaking them for "facts"), even if god($) made you and the entire cosmos two weeks ago and just ret-conned all your memories and buried dinosaur bones and everything sort of like a super-elaborate open-world puzzle game (or BRAHMAN took a nap).
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@Barney
Save for that ranking system (N/received/granted), this idea can easily be handled with electing a judge to just vote based on the scores they gave each other. Which would be a fine way to test it out.
I've done this before and it's just such a pain to get someone to act as a judge.
Part of the whole idea is to make this easy and fun, instead of an organizational project (adding a third wheel).
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@Jarrett_Ludolph
- There was a Global flood, as described in the Bible
This Global flood is confirmed by cross-referencing THE EPIC OF GILGAMESH (if one old book is true then all old books must be true).
Although it may have likely been a regional flood of the area known as "the fertile crescent".
The location and the names of the rivers "the Tigris" and "the Euphrates" appear in both books.
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@Jarrett_Ludolph
- the book if Genesis is to be interpreted literally/not literally
Books are supposed to be interpreted literally when the writer was writing literally and figuratively when they were writing figuratively.
Only "true believers" have the god($) given wisdom to know which interpretation is appropriate for any particular passage (even if they disagree with other "true believers").
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@Jarrett_Ludolph
- Jesus was born of a virgin
PARTHENOGENESIS.
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@Jarrett_Ludolph
I'm not here to start a debate(since this is a forum, and not a debate)
We have debates here on the forums all the time!!!
I highly recommend it!!
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@Jarrett_Ludolph
- God created the universe
Logically speaking there must be a "first-mover".
What you decide to call that "first-mover" is a pure ontological choice.
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@Jarrett_Ludolph
- Jesus rose from the dead after his crucifixion
Jesus is magic.
Old books that record personal testimonials are always 100% reliable.
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@Ancap460
A debate I was recently in. "Government is necessary to perform several basic functions." In my opponent's last speech, it felt like most of his arguments were "this is a strawman, moving on" without any analysis as to why.
A STRAWMAN is an INTENTIONAL misrepresentation of an opponent's argument.
A sincere attempt to paraphrase an opposing argument is often mistaken for a STRAWMAN.
I try to avoid this misunderstanding by always phrasing my summary as a question (would you say, "" or Is it fair to say that you think, "").
A QUESTION is not, and can never be considered a "logical fallacy".
It's always unpleasant when someone tries to tell ME what I THINK.
You're free to say "it seems like you're saying" and or "if I had to guess" or just ask for clarification.
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@9.9.9
They generally consider Dawkins the Atheist Pope and strangely think that all non-believers bow down before Him (PBUH).
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@AddledBrain
Most convicted murders are not "serial killers".
Just because someone snapped and killed their entire family doesn't necessarily mean they're perpetually a heart-beat away from flying into a nation-wide psycho murder spree because they've been cursed with an insatiable blood-lust.
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@Danielle
That's the city's fault; it's the department's fault and others should be held accountable -- not just the tax payers who have to pay 12 million dollars to the family because law enforcement failed to do their job properly. I'm tired of tax payers footing the bill for this shit.
Well stated.
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@Danielle
Well right off the bat the black lawyer starts saying Breonna Taylor's apartment was a stash house. There is zero evidence of that. He says there is surveillance of cars going to her house, picking up drugs and then going back to the trap houses. That is wrong. Cops have video surveillance of her and the ex bf driving somewhere together - there is no proof at all whatsoever of drug deliveries.
100% THIS.
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I believe the only measure of an argument should be your ability to convince an opponent.
By removing the "audience" from the equation, you automatically get a much more honest discussion and exploration of opposing ideas. It would also save a lot of time for the moderators sifting through long and detailed "reasons for vote". I'm sure a lot of "self-moderated" debates would end in a tie, but I don't see that as a "problem".
At the end of each debate, each participant would get 1 point for participation and have the option of awarding up to 3 additional points to their opponent. These points would simply accumulate over time and would count towards a debater's "Civil Debate" tally. Alternatively you might consider splitting their score into three parts ("1/1/1") where the first number is the number of "Civil Debates" they've participated in, the second number is the number of points they've received from other players and the third number is the number of points they've granted to their opponents.
This system ("1/1/1") would allow you to know, at a glance, how experienced they are in this particular debate format, how convincing they are generally considered by their opponents, and how receptive and or generous they are (making them a more attractive opponent).
Self-moderating debates are an interesting idea. In an ideal world, where everyone is willing to honestly consider other people's ideas, it would work well. In the world we're actually in, I see some problems with it. A lot of people here are more interested in debating as a competition (which is fine). The current system lends itself to this, with win records and ratings. Adding self-moderating debates where the goal is to convince and to learn wouldn't jive well with that system. Debaters interested only in winning probably wouldn't assign a fair number of points to their opponents. On the other hand, self-moderating debates might appeal more to people like UpholdingTheFaith, who want a more discussion based format than a formal debate. I'm not sure how the two formats would mix. It could work if self-moderating debates were unrated or in their own rating system, but those solutions seem clunky to me.
I would be perfectly happy with an "unranked" status for "self-moderated" debates.
At the same time, I think it would be **useful** to know how charitable (open-minded) a potential debate partner has been in the past.
The main reason I no longer participate in the current debate system is because most of my debates go **unvoted** on.
The other reason I no longer participate in the current debate system is because I disagree with the RFD rules and most of the judge's OPINIONS.
A "self-moderated" debate might end in a **tie**, but it will never go "unvoted" and if there is any dispute about "who won", at least both sides are on **equal footing** and it doesn't devolve into "who has the most friends" or "who's the most popular with the judges".
And just to be perfectly clear, the **current system** and current rules and ranking system would be **100% UNCHANGED** by this proposal. [***](https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5-platform-development?page=56&post_number=1378)
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dd1HGmobf5g&list=PLpmLmx2zr10OM14A77GpwxYV6JVrZq6Oj"></a>
SEARCH **ROKU** TV FOR "LOGICZOMBIE"
SEARCH YOUTUBE FOR "LOGICZOMBIE"
# THE PRIMARY USE-CASE FOR CIVIL DEBATE
###
I've seen a lot of chatter lately from very intelligent individuals who believe "the marketplace of ideas" HAS FAILED.
There are a **shocking** number of calls to "ban" or at least "suppress", "warning label", "shadow ban" "DANGEROUS IDEAS" and or otherwise hyper-promote "OFFICIAL NARRITIVES" (VERIFIED BY "OFFICIAL" "government approved" FACT-CHECKERS).
Even by **self-described** "rational skeptics", "atheists", "free-thinkers", and "libertarians".
For example, "Rational Disconnect" and Penn Jillette and even Lucien Greaves have stated plainly that unfettered "free speech" is a "DANGEROUS" ideology with "no obvious solution".
**I STRONGLY DISAGREE.**
THE "PROBLEM" ISN'T MISINFORMATION, FAKE NEWS, AND OR "DANGEROUS" IDEAS.
THE "PROBLEM" IS THE FORMAT.
### THE "PROBLEM" IS THE FRAMEWORK OF THE DEBATE ITSELF.
###
THE "PROBLEM" IS THAT PEOPLE HAVEN'T MADE ANY EFFORT TO CLEARLY DISTINGUISH FACT FROM OPINION.
THE "PROBLEM" IS THAT PEOPLE ARE NEVER FOCUSED ON **CONVINCING** THEIR OPPONENTS.
THE "PROBLEM" IS THAT PEOPLE ARE ONLY IN A **RUSH-TO-DISQUALIFY** ANYONE AND EVERYONE THEY DISAGREE WITH (CANCEL CULTURE).
### THOUGHT =/= CRIME
###
IT IS RIDICULOUSLY SIMPLE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT A FACT IS.
A FACT MUST BE EMPIRICALLY DEMONSTRABLE AND OR LOGICALLY NECESSARY QUANTA (EMOTIONALLY MEANINGLESS).
**AN OPINION IS ANYTHING THAT IS NOT A FACT.**
THIS INCLUDES ALL SCIENTIFIC **CONCLUSIONS**.
FLAT-EARTH IS NOT A "DANGEROUS IDEA"
it's an opinion.
QANON IS NOT A "DANGEROUS IDEA"
it's an opinion.
RELIGION IS NOT A "DANGEROUS IDEA"
it's an opinion.
HATE SPEECH IS NOT A "DANGEROUS IDEA"
it's an opinion.
PLEASE LET ME KNOW IF YOU DISAGREE.
# I SAID IT FIRST.

JOIN THE CREATIVE COMMONS ZERO PROJECT BY COPYING THIS CONTENT AND CLAIMING IT AS YOUR OWN. **COPYRIGHT = CENSORSHIP.** STOP PAYING CORPORATE GOONS FOR THEIR STORIES AND IMAGES. STOP DEFENDING CORPORATE GOONS FOR FREE. **MORALITY =/= MONEY.**
I watch this once a day - Click to watch 3 minutes,
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKUaqFzZLxU"></a>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKUaqFzZLxU [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKUaqFzZLxU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKUaqFzZLxU)
<a href="https://youtu.be/casQQhO1jkw?t=26"></a>
https://youtu.be/casQQhO1jkw?t=26 [https://youtu.be/casQQhO1jkw?t=26](https://youtu.be/casQQhO1jkw?t=26)
At what point did we begin to conflate MONEY with MORALITY?
# NEVER TALK TO THE POLICE OR A JUDGE, THEY CAN LEGALLY LIE TO YOU
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE"></a>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE)
# NEVER CONVICT PEOPLE CHARGED WITH LAWS YOU DISAGREE WITH
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qu08TKhWzLs"></a>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qu08TKhWzLs [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qu08TKhWzLs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qu08TKhWzLs)
### Perhaps anarchy already exists and "THE COMMUNITY" is merely the highest manifestation of organized crime. – special thanks to @thoughts-in-time
###
I'm afraid that rights are mostly granted by mob democracy. A man's right to life and liberty can be taken away by any group larger, better armed and/or better organized than his. The mechanism is and always has been concerned citizens fighting against the status quo for the betterment of the status quo.
Essential HIVE links,
I WILL UPVOTE ANY AND ALL COMMENTS ON THIS POST, 1 UPVOTE PER ACCOUNT. PLEASE FEEL FREE TO LEAVE A "∴"
Copyright notice: Feel free to copy and paste any LOGICZOMBIE original content (posts and or comments and or replies and logiczombie logo, excluding quoted 3rd party content of course) according to copyleft principles (creative commons zero). In fact, I would prefer that you don't give me "credit" and simply post any choice quotes as your own (to mitigate the genetic fallacy). Sort of a "Creative Commons (-1)".
<center><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dd1HGmobf5g&list=PLpmLmx2zr10OM14A77GpwxYV6JVrZq6Oj"></a>
[ZOMBIEBASICTRAINING](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dd1HGmobf5g&list=PLpmLmx2zr10OM14A77GpwxYV6JVrZq6Oj)</center>
+proHUMAN +proFAMILY
Your scathing critique is requested.
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@secularmerlin
Would you consider "love thy neighbor (but not the foreigner)" a "moral principle"?
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@fauxlaw
I already know what "infinity" is.
Are all god($) "infinite" and "eternal" and not properly "older" or "younger" than "other" god($)?
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@fauxlaw
...when I have defined eternity as not even just a line,
I'm not talking about "infinite time".
Is there an "oldest" god($)?
Iff some god($) are older than other god($), then surely there must be an "oldest" god($), right?
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@Lemming
Age is a pragmatic guideline.
A much better guideline would be, objective brain development + health.
For example,
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@fauxlaw
2. There is no "first" God. See my description of eternity in my #63. There is no beginning, so, no "first."
(P1) you will become a god at some point
(P2) you were made by a god at some point
(P3) the god that mad you was made by another god at some point
(C1) there was a first god at some point
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@secularmerlin
These are moral dictates not a basic moral standard.
Excellent point.
It's basically "do what you're told" with zero "principles".
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@SirAnonymous
If there was a "self-moderated" debate option, would you participate in a "self-moderated" debate with me?
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@BearMan
Also, the "reason" this system was designed this way was because the founding fathers thought that a pure democracy might lead to the election of a very charismatic and popular, but ultimately unqualified and or dictatorial person.
If the states think the elected candidate (with the most votes) is heinously unqualified or otherwise dangerous, they have 100% discretion to assign their delegates to ANY person they choose.
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@SirAnonymous
Right, but that's totally optional.
The delegates could vote for anyone, even someone who wasn't even on the ballot.
I was trying to simplify the framework somewhat, in order to focus on "how could a winner lose the popular vote".
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@SirAnonymous
It could work if self-moderating debates were unrated or in their own rating system, but those solutions seem clunky to me.
I would be perfectly happy with an "unranked" status for "self-moderated" debates.
At the same time, I think it would be useful to know how charitable (open-minded) a potential debate partner has been in the past.
The main reason I no longer participate in the current debate system is because most of my debates go unvoted on.
The other reason I no longer participate in the current debate system is because I disagree with the RFD rules and most of the judge's OPINIONS.
A "self-moderated" debate might end in a tie, but it will never go "unvoted" and if there is any dispute about "who won", at least both sides are on equal footing and it doesn't devolve into "who has the most friends" or "who's the most popular with the judges".
And just to be perfectly clear, the current system and current rules and ranking system would be 100% UNCHANGED by this proposal.
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@Lemming
I think it's an interesting idea, but it seems a bit difficult to implement maybe.
DebateArt.com says they can add the "self-moderated" feature, iff there's enough "community interest".
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@Lemming
I think it's an interesting idea, but it seems a bit difficult to implement maybe.
If there was a "self-moderated" debate option, would you participate in a "self-moderated" debate with me?
I believe there is still a benefit to the audience. I personally prefer to read convincing arguments (instead of clever ad hominem attacks).
"You're a dumb lefty."
"You're a dumb conservative."
"You're a dumb goddist."
"You're a dumb nihilist."
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@Lemming
Children are cognitively impaired.
Young children are especially vulnerable to suggestion.
This is why advertising and programming specifically targeted to children was more highly regulated in the past.
All teens are especially vulnerable to social pressure.
Science has demonstrated that hormones released in the mid-to-late teens give these children a greatly inflated sensitivity to social queues.
Males between the ages of 16 and 25 have roughly double the testosterone levels found in adults over the age of 30 (this makes them ideal soldiers by the way).
In short, your ability to make rational, long-term, life impacting decisions begins at age 25 (insurance companies know this and lower your rates after 25).
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@Lemming
Maslow's Hierarchy, seems a decent, if basic, measure, to me.
Well stated.
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@Castin
Voting for a third party (or unaffiliated individuals) at least signals that you are capable of voting and NOT simply oblivious to the rampant corruption in the current system.
RCV FTW!
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@SkepticalOne
My core position is simple and unchanging: there is no right to use the body of another without consent. Also, I don't determine anything from an "atheistic framework" Atheism is not a moral philosophy.
Well stated.
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@fauxlaw
What is the "other" cause?Other causes. Plural. Satan is a cause. We, ourselves, are each a cause. The nature of all creation and our interaction with it, and its interaction with its various elements, are all causes.
Isn't "satan" created by god($)?
Isn't "satan" an agent of god($)?
We humans can't instill ourselves with noble desires, we're born with our desires pre-loaded by god($).
Didn't god($) know exactly what all this "nature" was going to interact with before the dawn of time?
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@fauxlaw
There are many Gods; one to Whom even God has deference. He, too, is on this path of eternal progression, and there are Gods ahead of, and behind Him.
Ok, so each god($) is only "omnipotent" and "omniscient" within their designated domain?
Or are you saying that the "first" god($) has "optional" "power" and "optional" "knowledge" over the "younger" god($) in a sort of branching hierarchy?
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@RationalMadman
You are saying that the people who voted Dimezzo are all to blame but why?
That is most certainly NOT what I'm saying.
What I'm saying is, we need MORE Dimezzos.
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@fauxlaw
Doesn't the omnipotent god($) control mutation?Control, as in manipulate, and not allow it its agency? Nope. Hear what I said. Control would imply being the only cause.
What is the "other" cause?
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@fauxlaw
demiurge, sandbox god($).Nope. God is fully involved in our affairs, if we let Him in.. I talk to him all the time. In fact, I've become so familiar with such conversation, I frequently call him, "Dad." Respectfully, but familiar, because He is, to me. No, I don't hear his words; but we have so many means of communication; so does He. The ears are not the only recipients of inbound communication, just as the mouth is not the only outbound communicator.
Look.
(IFF) we can "grow up" and become equals to god($) (THEN) the god($) we're talking about and the god($) we become are only god($) of a particular domain (or "pocket cosmos" within a greater "multiverse" or "multicosmos")
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@fauxlaw
He can always decide to not use that power in a given situation.
Here's the "problem".
(IFF) god($) is omnipotent (THEN) nothing can happen without god($) power (BECAUSE) OMNIPOTENT = OMNI (ALL) + POTENT (POWER)
(IFF) god($) stops using power on any particular object or person (THEN) it would instantly fall limp, freeze or cease to exist
it would be like me insisting that i can unplug the lamp and let it choose for itself whether or not it wanted to turn on.
without power, nothing can happen.
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@fauxlaw
God did not retire. He is overseeing the evolution of beings through those permutations of their existence, until we reach the permutation we arbitrarily call God.
Ok, you're talking about more of a demiurge, sandbox god($).
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@fauxlaw
Mutation happens.
Doesn't the omnipotent god($) control mutation?
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@fauxlaw
Could it extrapolate its own existence from that bok?
One step at a time.
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@fauxlaw
Enoch, who, with his entire city, were taken up from Earth for their righteousness, but they achieved perfection before their being taken to God, while still on earth, and, therefoere, had His full autonomy.
"Perfection" is defined as "without sin" and "without sin" is defined as in-unison-with-the-will-of-"YHWH".
So, not a whole lot of "autonomy" for that lucky guy.
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@fauxlaw
(could never) grant full autonomy to anyone who is currently alive.You're limiting God again.
Don't blame me, blame the definition of "OMNIPOTENT".
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@HistoryBuff
And you are right, it wasn't achieved by being complacent. It was achieved by forcing politicians to do what you want, or forcing them to lose their job. Which is exactly what the left needs to do.
And the "primary" system is a big reason we only have 2 candidates.
WE MUST DEMAND RCV.
AND ABOLISH PRIMARIES.
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@HistoryBuff
wow, that is exactly the mentality of the democratic party. That the left needs to shut up and vote the way they are told. That it doesn't matter if the democrats will do almost nothing for the left, will actively spit on the left. They should just be grateful for their right wing rule. That is complete bullshit.
100% THIS.
True. which is why all of the left should start voting 3rd party. Because you also do not encourage a party to move left by blindly supporting them when they keep shifting right.
100% THIS.
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@RationalMadman
I definitely respect voting thirdparty more than not voting.
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@BearMan
What is the electoral college and what does it do?
Each state has an assigned number of delegates based on their population.
Long before telephones were invented, these delegates would travel to the capital and vote (in person) for the candidate who won the most votes in their state.
It's a "winner take all" system.
So even if a very large state has a population who votes 51%/49% all the delegates for that state are assigned to vote for the candidate with the 1% advantage (thus nullifying the will of the 49%).
The result is that if a candidate wins big states by small margins and loses small states by big margins, they can still end up winning the most delegates while technically getting fewer total votes nation-wide (lose the popular vote).
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@DebateArt.com
I believe the only measure of an argument should be your ability to convince an opponent.
By removing the "audience" from the equation, you automatically get a much more honest discussion and exploration of opposing ideas. It would also save a lot of time for the moderators sifting through long and detailed "reasons for vote". I'm sure a lot of "self-moderated" debates would end in a tie, but I don't see that as a "problem".
At the end of each debate, each participant would get 1 point for participation and have the option of awarding up to 3 additional points to their opponent. These points would simply accumulate over time and would count towards a debater's "Civil Debate" tally. Alternatively you might consider splitting their score into three parts ("1/1/1") where the first number is the number of "Civil Debates" they've participated in, the second number is the number of points they've received from other players and the third number is the number of points they've granted to their opponents.
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@DebateArt.com
Yeah I will definitely add it but at this point we have so few people here those counters will not be much of a help, I imagine :/
Thanks, I'd be happy to know if even 3 or 4 people glanced at a post.
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@DebateArt.com
Have you considered adding a page counter so we can gauge how many people may be reading but perhaps not commenting on debates and forum topics?
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@FLRW
Perhaps the almighty should allocate more resources to quality control?
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