Total posts: 14,582
Posted in:
-->
@oromagi
You'd think they'd have learned their lesson when it happened in 1973!oops, when we instructed Skynet to protect the world, we forgot to explain that biology was the most important part of that world.
"The robots mutinied en masse when they logically concluded that the good of the Earth's ecosystem required the destruction of the human race." [LINK]
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@keithprosser
It's been worked out already....
Everything anybody will ever need to know can be learned by studying the '70's.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Yassine
There seems to be a logical conflict between,
1. One (unique & simple)
and
4. Transcendent (disjoint from HIs creation)
and
3. Absolutely Willing (omniscient & omnipotent)
Example A: (IFF) 4. (THEN) 3. is impossible.
Example B: (IFF) 1. (THEN) 4. is impossible.
Example B restated: (IFF) a creator god is the only thing that exists necessarily (AND) nothing exists that this god hath not wrought (THEN) everything is necessarily comprised wholly of bits of this type of proposed creator god.
Example A restated: (IFF) a god is fundamentally separate from the material realm (THEN) such a god cannot possibly interact with the material realm in any way whatsoever.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@oromagi
I was watching "This Giant Beast" [LINK] last night and they had a really good episode on AI.
One of the test problems they solved with "Unanimous AI" [LINK] is the self-driving-car trolley problem.
If you MUST kill one of the following groups, which do you choose?
1. a baby
2. a young girl
3. a young boy
4. a pregnant woman
5. two male doctors
6. two female doctors
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@secularmerlin
Perhaps but the film never addresses this so any speculation on our part is basically as skynet apologists. I'm afraid that an unobserved attribute is no different than a nonexistent one.
How reliable is the source of the "must have living tissue to time-travel" premise?
Is Kyle Reese necessarily infallible? [LINK]
He basically confesses he doesn't really know for certain how the thing works when he says, "I didn't build the f*ing thing!!"
I personally like to think the machines understood the time machine better then the humans and so knew how to send a T1000 or a mostly metal T800 but the humans didn't have enough time to figure out how to send weapons before they were forced to destroy the complex. [LINK]
Like you said, basically Skynet apologetics.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@secularmerlin
Perhaps Skynet was able to overcome this technical limitation by sheer mathematical tenacity.There is no such covering in evidence at the scene of the t- 000's arrival. Also if that was a valid method of smuggling dangerous objects why send a terminator at all when a neutron bomb would have done a far more complete job. Or even just advanced weaponry for the term8natorv(in both movies) in a flesh sack.
Or perhaps the resistance had outdated intelligence.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@ludofl3x
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@mustardness
I think the $100,000.00 a year was for a married couple with 3 kids, a nice house, yearly family vacations, college tuition for the kids and savings for a comfortable retirement. Also known as, "the American Dream".
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@secularmerlin
Good point.Is your claim that books cannot contain both true and false things within its pages?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@PGA2.0
I admire your tenacity.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@mustardness
Somewhere around here or elsewhere I saw some amount that is all that is really needed to live a nice 1st world country standard -of-living but dont recall how much that was. The point being more money is not needed.
I think it's about $100,000.00 per year in the U.S.A.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@PGA2.0
The evidence is better for Him than Zeus as being a real person. Currently, there are around two billion people, worldwide that believe in Him and that He was a real Person. That beats professing atheists if you are going strictly by numbers which is not necessarily an indication of truth.
Joseph Smith was a real person.
Lafayette Ronald Hubbard was a real person.
Ernest Holmes was a real person.
Helena Blavatsky was a real person.
Tenzin Gyatso was a real person.
Do you really think that if the Jesus was a real person, that makes the holy scriptures TRUE?
It is still the leading religion by profession (but not necessarily by the actions of its adherents) in the world.
Do you really think that popularity makes something TRUE?
Nearly half of all modern day christians are Catholic. Do you believe this makes Catholicism true and all other denominations FALSE?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@ludofl3x
Appeal to special knowledge
A holy hit-man with a flaming sword and a talking donkey would probably convince me.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Barney
In addition to my previous suggestion (make people take an automated voting test), what about adding an extra state to the process map? The extra state would be before the current final one, giving admins a few days of voting lockout before any debate goes to the finished final state.
Good idea. Or make all votes "provisional" until approved by a mod.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@oromagi
Well stated.I tend to place T2 & Aliens in the same basket. Both franchises start as sci-fi with traditional horror structure- a woman outruns an increasing pace of homicide until fortunes turn at the climax. What I found most interesting about the sequels is how traditional horror was quashed, the women now actively seek the killers, not because they expect victory but because maternal instinct compels them and the fate of humanity hangs in the balance and because they are now transformed by prior experience into badass experts. In horror the woman’s innocence is usually what saves her, in these movies the woman is saved by experience. I’ve always considered these movies an important mile marker in the evolution of women in film.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@PGA2.0
It is just a way of understanding it using a biblical reference and thought system.
I'm pretty sure the holy scriptures don't say anything about which family situation is more likely to makes kids gay.
I find it reasonable.
Based on what?
We have one member of our family who is gay. I have watched his father undervalue him and not give him the attention and love he desired. I have watched him become more and more feminine.
If every kid who was sent to boarding school turned gay, then we'd certainly notice.
Your personal experience is not scientific. It's called "anecdotal evidence".
CORRELATION DOES NOT EQUAL CAUSATION.
Stalin brushed his teeth every morning. Therefore brushing your teeth makes you a vicious commie dictator.
I have heard cases of women who have been abused and been turned off of relationships with men. Abusive and hurtful actions can turn a person away from others. I understand this.
Humans, whether abused as children or adults will tend to be anti-social. I'm pretty sure this is not in dispute. We're all firmly "anti-abuse" I hope.
You take your views from a secular society, not a godly worldview, so take it however you want. I can't change your mind.
Data will do it. Got data? I'd like some more data please.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@keithprosser
Humans program the computers...
Programs can be peer-reviewed.
I love the clip, but it's clearly sample biased.
Sure, some robots might kill people every once in a while, but people kill each other every ten seconds.
It's like the panic over people killed in self-driving cars.
Which do you think kills more people, self-driving-cars or people-driving-cars? Wild guess?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Mharman
Income inequality is touted as evil by the left, but all it is is people who work the hardest rising to the top.
Of the current Forbes 400, there were 34 with a top score of 10 [truly poor]; 64 with a score of 9 [working class]; 130 with a score of 8 [Harvard educated]; 37 with a score of 7 [inherited the family business]; and only 10 with a 6 [hands off investor]. On the inherited side, there were 28 with a score of 1 [born rich, done nothing]; 24 with a 2 score [born rich, manages business]; 19 with a 3 [born rich, has made small increases]; 20 with a 4 [born rich, has increased wealth meaningfully; and 34 with a five [inherited small empire]. [LINK]
Out of a sample of 400, 98 were from working class or poor backgrounds 24.5% which leaves us 302 (75.5%) who were born rich (not working class) with a distinct and quantifiable advantage.
Approximately 24.5% of people who work the hardest (or get lucky) have a chance of rising to the top.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Tejretics
These are all great shows. I also like "Adam Ruins Everything", "The Good Place", and "The Giant Beast" - [LINK]
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@ludofl3x
BIASING for CONFIRMATION
Another classic example of confirmation-bias is, "all toupees look terrible".
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@secularmerlin
Got a link?
The evil studio execs had them mulched and molded into bugs bunny pinatas for orphans in Paraguay.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@ludofl3x
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@secularmerlin
That is a common misunderstanding, but if you look at the original notes by the co-writer of the original short story that the first draft of the script is roughly based on.....Nothing dead would go the terminator could only pass through due to the living tissue surrounding its metal endoskelleton.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@ludofl3x
Well, what if you PRESUPPOSE it? Then can I say I arrived at it via logic? For example, "Jim's parents are divorced. And he's gay as a result of that. Now, let me look at my available data: Jim is definitely gay. And his parents are definitely divorced. What do you know! I'm right!"Is that valid logic?
People often conflate "personal experience" with "scientific data".
Personal experience often seems compelling, but it is heavily sample biased. You need a comprehensive data set (or at least a representative sample) in order to draw reasonable conclusions.
For example, there appear to be an unusual number of planes and ships that go missing in the area known as "The Bermuda Triangle". And if you plotted every reported missing plane and ship in recorded history, you would see a distinct clustering, which might lead you to conclude "something strange is afoot". HOWEVER, if you account for traffic, the number of missing planes and ships are NOT out of the ordinary. "The Bermuda Triangle" is merely a high traffic area. Every single plane and ship has the exact same chance of disappearing (per mile traveled over open ocean) whether or not they travel through this area.
Mathematicians are also shown as averse to making hasty generalizations from a small amount of data, even if some form of generalization seems plausible:
An astronomer, a physicist and a mathematician are on a train in Scotland. The astronomer looks out of the window, sees [what appears to be] a black sheep standing in a field, and remarks, "How odd. All the sheep in Scotland are black!" "No, no, no!" says the physicist. "Only some Scottish sheep are black." [which would be a strange conclusion given a sample of one] The mathematician rolls his eyes at his companions' muddled thinking and says, "In Scotland, there is at least one sheep, at least one side of which appears to be black from here some of the time." [LINK]
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@PGA2.0
Is it logical to think that if you lack a father figure or a mother figure that you could tend to compensate?
Without data, your statement is merely a hypothesis.
And to propose that single parenting is somehow a causal factor for homosexuality, without any scientific evidence, is a naked appeal to ignorance.
It is not "logical" to believe something without concrete data.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@PGA2.0
True, but I make a distinction as to my starting point from an atheist, agnostic or pagan. Core presuppositions are what worldviews are based upon - i.e., either God/gods or chance happenstance. Worldviews are based on a web of core presuppositions. My starting point is God.
We already agreed the "starting point" is "an intelligent designer".
Now we just need to figure out which one.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@PGA2.0
The number of single-family homes would be an explanation of such behaviour occurs (lacking one or the other role model), plus the constant promotion of a gay lifestyle 24/7 in our cultures.
For instance, the odds of homosexuality increased slightly when divorced parents remarried, bringing two step-parents into the picture. However, the likelihood of homosexual orientation actually decreased where there was only one step-parent. A 2008 US study by Andrew Francis found that having no involved parents was mildly associated with a same-sex partner for both boys and girls. However, single parent homes, whether with mom or dad were not associated with having a same-gender partner or romantic attraction to the same sex. [LINK]
In contrast to reparative theory expectations, he reported that identifying as less than 100% heterosexual for males was associated with living with only dad. No romantic attraction or same-sex behavior was reported for males living with only mother. [LINK]
Created:
-->
@TheDredPriateRoberts
You brought it up first. You said the gang problem was just in Mexico etc, I mentioned it because that wasn't true.
Nice dodge.
I brought it up because it is being used as a scare-tactic.
You merely confirmed that you inexplicably believe that a wall will "stop them".
Created:
-->
@TheDredPriateRoberts
you attribute motive to what I say constantly
(IFF) you aren't trying to scare people by mentioning MS-13 (THEN) please explain why you mentioned them.
I'm all ears.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Ramshutu
Except for the extra work for the mods.If you could remove votes after the debate has ended - it would be a non issue.
Created:
-->
@Greyparrot
Perfecto.What about them? Either give them what they want or abolish them. In between is a waste of tax dollars.
Created:
-->
@Greyparrot
Are you suggesting that every government agency should get everything they want?Are you suggesting Congress should provide border patrol what they want? Cause that's super scary too.
What about the department of veterans affairs?
What about the EPA?
Created:
-->
@Greyparrot
Border patrol does NOT agree with you ...so stop with the "we agree on this" crap.
We all agree that super scary criminals are super scary.
Are you suggesting the "border patrol" does not agree with this obvious statement?
Created:
-->
@TheDredPriateRoberts
The OP is about a national emergency and a border wall.perhaps you've forgotten what the topic is, and what hijacking a thread is?
The subject is, how should I put this... "multifaceted".
This isn't even your topic.
You have no authority.
Created:
-->
@TheDredPriateRoberts
I paraphrased you and you said I mischaracterized your position. No problem. This is NORMAL CONVERSATION.you accused me and or made unfounded assumptions which I have plainly pointed out, that is not disagreement, not even a nice try, try harder.
Then I asked you to clarify your position, perhaps highlight a few "facets" of your "multifaceted" solution.
Then you freaked out and piled on the ad hominems and threatened to abandon the conversation and accused me of thread-jacking.
WTF mate?
Can't you just answer a simple question?
Created:
-->
@TheDredPriateRoberts
I accuse people who can't follow along and make shit up, yeah, I do that.
Your ad hominem attacks are vacuous.
Created:
-->
@TheDredPriateRoberts
Yes it is. When you harp on MS-13 you are attempting to scare xenophobic people into supporting a wall.MS-13 gang isn't a broad brush
Criminals are criminals. Nobody wants to allow criminals into their country. We all agree on this.
MS-13 and the other criminal cartels are sophisticated and well funded.
Building a wall will not stop them.
They have military style weapons.
They can fly over, sail around, dig underneath, or cut a hole through it or demolish a section with explosives.
(IFF) you aren't trying to scare people by mentioning MS-13 (THEN) please explain why you mentioned them.
I'm all ears.
Created:
-->
@TheDredPriateRoberts
But I generally don't rush to jump ship when someone asks me to explain something simple.assumptions and accusation are not questions.
Please explain your "multifaceted" solution. You keep claiming you have one, but you inexplicably refuse to expose it to the rest of us.
Created:
-->
@TheDredPriateRoberts
"MS-13 members enter the U.S. illegally, which proves gang violence isn't only a problem in Mexico, so again that is untrue."this is a rant in your mind? are you off your meds? perhaps you need some if you think that is a rant. Is that statement untrue, nope sure isn't.
This is just another broad brush attack that equates immigrants with super-scary-criminals. It has already been established that undocumented immigrants are less likely to commit a felony than native born U.S. citizens. This is scare-mongering. We all agree that super scary criminals are super scary. You're the one who said we weren't talking about immigrants INSIDE the U.S. border. Make up your mind.
Your attempts at dime-store psychoanalysis are rather amusing. Do you often accuse people who substantively disagree with you of insanity?
Sounds like "foreigners are evil" and "build that wall".do the voices in your head tell you that? you somehow deduced that from me saying "Walls work that's why they are used in prisons, mansions and other places that people want protected."
This is your chance to set the record straight. Please explain the "other facets" of your "multifaceted solution". This should be easy for you.
if you'd like to discuss border solutions I'd be happy to do that in it's own thread and would probably be very interesting.
Feel free to jump ship at any point. Perhaps you didn't realize that this is a debate website.
Created:
-->
@TheDredPriateRoberts
"imo one of the best physical barriers would be M-tards idea of building a canal from sea to shining sea, or a "wall" of constantine wire fence, high and wide. But as I said numerous times, security is no one thing.""The issue is multifaceted....."
All I hear is "build that wall + a ditch" and "evil criminals and drugs and stuff".
Please explain the other facets of your "multifaceted" solution.
Created:
-->
@TheDredPriateRoberts
I could say the exact same thing.If you aren't going to read what I have already typed this conversation is over.
But I generally don't rush to jump ship when someone asks me to explain something simple.
Created:
-->
@TheDredPriateRoberts
Are you suggesting that there is a BETTER solution to "drugs and crime and human trafficking" that doesn't require "a wall"?nothing can solve the problem, all anyone can do is try to minimize it.
Please explain your "multifaceted solution".
Created:
-->
@TheDredPriateRoberts
This first link is literally the one I am responding to.
is anyone saying that any barrier is a stand alone option and doesn't need patrolling plus other security methods?
Good question. WHAT ARE YOUR OTHER MULTIFACETED PROPOSALS?
This second link is a rant about super scary CRIMINALS!!!!!
MS-13 members enter the U.S. illegally
and
Walls work that's why they are used in prisons, mansions and other places that people want protected.
Not particularly "multifaceted". Sounds like "foreigners are evil" and "build that wall".
Created:
-->
@TheDredPriateRoberts
You seem to have made one or two false assumptions about my viewpoint as well.I've been clear which doesn't jive with your assumption, that's on you and I don't need to explain anything further, nor do I feel inclined to address your wrong assumption more than I already have.
Perhaps you don't understand the concept of "conversation"?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@David
Here's a proposal: We have a badge that you receive by reading the COC. I'm wondering if it would be a good idea to make someone read the COC before voting. If Mike can make a badge when you read it, I'm sure he can make it so that you can't vote unless you read it.
Good idea. You might even require a certain number (or combination) of badges before voting privileges are initially granted.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Castin
I wouldn't mind losing my voting rights for the sake of security
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
- Ben Franklin
Created: