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@Tarik
how can you know ?or, who do you think can know ?Let me just stop you while you’re ahead, if you think asking me these redundant questions is gonna lead to me conceding that morality is subjective, then you got another thing coming.
how do you know "there is a standard" when you can't describe "the standard" ?
is it some kind of secret ?
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@Avery
The more prudent approach is to yield to police officers and let them do their jobs. You can always sue after-the-fact.
after you've spent four years "awaiting trial" ?
after your house has been destroyed and you've lost your job ?
after your bank account has been frozen or seized ?
yeah, no big deal
i'm sure a $50 to $600 an hour lawyer will be more than happy to take your case and string it out for several more years
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@Tarik
if you can't know what god wantsI never said you can’t know, I said I don’t know.
how can you know ?
or, who do you think can know ?
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@Tarik
That makes no sense because in regards to what you think there’s nothing to figure out, whether or not what you think aligns with God and is true is a different matter.
if you can't know what god wants
how can you know if your personal sense of "right" and "wrong"
"aligns with god" ?
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@Tarik
but that standard is unknown and or unknowableIn regards to me, yes.
ok, so that means
each person
must
figure out
for themselves
what they think is
"right"
and what is
"wrong"
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@Tarik
how do we know what "god" wants ?I don’t know.
so, you're claiming there is an "objective" standard of morality
but that standard is unknown and or unknowable
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@Vici
a good debater is an active and tenacious debater
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@Shila
Showing them love no matter where they are will make prisons less isolating or stigmatizing.
i agree
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@Shila
But the persons existence is no longer in doubt.
your sources can still be in doubt
do you think the epic of gilgamesh is true because it is based on a historical king ?
or the legends of king arthur, which are also apparently based on a historical figure ?
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@Shila
the point here iseven if the person's existence is verifiedthat doesn't somehow make all their stories automatically trueIf the persons existence is verified then that person becomes a historical fact.Stories about the person can be verified through eyewitness accounts. But the persons existence is no longer in doubt.
even if the jesus stories are based on a real person
that doesn't make any of the "eyewitness accounts" magically true
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@Shila
How can there be haters if we all love one another. Even the haters will be loved.
ok, are you suggesting we let everyone out of prison ?
or are you suggesting we construct lovely prisons ?
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@Shila
But this thread is only about the historical Jesus. Look for other threads specific to your historical champion.
the point here is
even if the person's existence is verified
that doesn't somehow make all their stories automatically true
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@Shila
John 13:34 “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.
oh, good
now we can just throw all the haters in prison
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@Shila
Everyone needs a chance to say where they stand with the Historical Jesus.
everyone needs a chance to say where they stand on the historical joseph smith
everyone needs a chance to say where they stand on the historical confucius
everyone needs a chance to say where they stand on the historical prophet muhammad
everyone needs a chance to say where they stand on the historical abraham
everyone needs a chance to say where they stand on the historical jemima wilkinson
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@Athias
It's not. Despots and tyrants don't countenance criticism.Despotism and Tyranny typically characterize governments and their leaders, not anarchy.
it would be pretty funny for a tyrannical despot to claim they were an anarchist
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@Shila
When officers suffer from mental illness they are suspended with pay and required to seek treatment/counseling.
that would be nice
screen out all the officers with anger issues first
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@Shila
Fine Art Isn’t About Art. It’s About Evading Taxes.
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@Shila
Have you considered the alternatives to "objectivity" and "freewill" that makes us complacent slaves?
you can't be a slave to any human if your trajectory begins with the origin of all things
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@Athias
The president's job is essentially an advisory role, which has no authority or leverage to dictate moderator actions. I still don't understand the reason to this day there are still those who are overestimating the function of this office.
exactly
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@Tarik
so, FUNCTIONALLY each person needs to figure out FOR THEMSELVES what they believe is "right" and what is "wrong" ?Yes, if what they believe aligns with God.
how do we know what "god" wants ?
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@Polytheist-Witch
If you're picking your religion then you haven't been called by any particular god and therefore you probably aren't really dedicated to your religion. You just go through the motions or do what you think is socially acceptable. That's why people can have a moral standard that completely conflicts with their religion.
well stated
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@Shila
Different religions offer different rewards. So it is up to the individual to consider these objective rewards and match it with their objective needs before they pick a religion.
reward seeking is NOT moral
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@Polytheist-Witch
I've defined what I think gods are multiple times nobody fucking reads anything here nobody pays attention to anything that said here unless it said by a Christian or an atheist so, fuck you. That said atheist still don't get to define god.
links please
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@Shila
Pick the objects (facts) you like in a religion before choosing the religion to follow. Be objective.
look,
i'm not disputing your claim that these individual "facts" are to be considered "objective"
i'm even assuming that means they are all "true"
but you seem to be glossing over the point that the one i "like" is going to be a purely SUBJECTIVE choice on my part
my personal preference for one "fact" over another "fact" is SUBJECTIVE
even if the "facts" themselves are considered to be "OBJECTIVE"
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@Shila
to further clarify
objects are objective
your PREFERENCE for objects is SUBJECTIVE
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@Shila
Pick the objects **you like** in a religion before choosing the religion to follow. Be objective.
Pick the objects - you like - in a religion before choosing the religion to follow. Be objective.
- you like -
this is subjective criteria
what you personally believe qualifies as a "fact" is also subjective
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@Shila
how can i be "objective about the religion i choose" ?Pick the objects you like in a religion before choosing the religion to follow. Be objective.If you believe dead Jews can forgive your sins pick Christianity.If you like virgins pick Islam.If you like your current life and want to return to it pick Hinduism.
you've only listed SUBJECTIVE criteria
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@Polytheist-Witch
Atheist don't get to define god plain and simple, fuck off. It's like men trying to discuss abortion, fucking idiots.
apparently you can't manage to define god either
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@Double_R
Again, a standard is nothing more than an ideal. It is not a truth statement so it does not have a truth value.
bingo
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@Shila
so, basically, "objective morality" boils down to "personal preference"You have to be objective about the religion you choose so you can abide by its morality.
how can i be "objective about the religion i choose" ?
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@Shila
how do i know which flavor of religion to choose ?If you believe dead Jews can forgive your sins pick Christianity.If you like virgins pick Islam.If you like your current life and want to return to it pick Hinduism.
so, basically, "objective morality" boils down to "personal preference"
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@Shila
That is why religions are seen as the true custodians of morality.
how do i know which flavor of religion to choose ?
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@Shila
If you are educated you can turn to moral philosophy. Moral philosophy is the branch of philosophy that contemplates what is right and wrong. It explores the nature of morality and examines how people should live their lives in relation to others.
kant's "moral imperative" is a pretty good guideline
but the actual PRAXIS is still tailored to each individual
and broadly open to interpretation
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@Shila
If you are a Christian the Bible teaches you what is right and wrong.
what does the bible say about the proper length of copyright extensions ?
what does the bible say about purchasing goods that utilize exploitative child labor (like chocolate and bananas) ?
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@Tarik
so how does "objective morality" help me get to heaven ?how does "objective morality" help me make practical decisions ?I don’t know
so, FUNCTIONALLY each person needs to figure out FOR THEMSELVES what they believe is "right" and what is "wrong" ?
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@Shila
so how does "objective morality" help me get to heaven ?how does "objective morality" help me make practical decisions ?Deuteronomy 11:26-28 sums it up like this: "Obey and you will be blessed. Disobey and you will be cursed." In the New Testament, we learn through the example of Jesus Christ that believers are called to a life of obedience.
what am i supposed to "obey" ?
where are the "objective" and comprehensive moral guidelines ?
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@Tarik
how do you get to heaven ?I don’t know
so how does "objective morality" help me get to heaven ?
how does "objective morality" help me make practical decisions ?
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@Shila
The Queen is dead. Let her Rest In Peace.
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@Tarik
so "objective morality" means "trust the jesus to get you into heaven and forgive all your sins"and then do whatever you wish whenever you wishNo
how do you get to heaven ?
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@Elliott
I didn’t bother watching it any further.
did you catch the part where they passed a law to INCREASE the royal allowance by 10X ?
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@Elliott
but only on government advice
how does "the government" pass a bill and then tell the queen to veto it ?
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@Sidewalker
MORALITY is NOT an OBJECTtherefore,MORALITY cannot be OBJECTIVEYep, I get it, the word objective only applies to objects, and only objects exist.
only OBJECTS can "exist independently of a mind" (if you consider the definition of "objective")
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@Tarik
what is the OBJECTIVE that "morality" leads to ?Heaven
so "objective morality" means "trust the jesus to get you into heaven and forgive all your sins"
and then do whatever you wish whenever you wish
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@zedvictor4
the queen (now king) has significantly more power than i thought
they have to explicitly approve of any law that might affect them
BEFORE it is even presented to parliament
they have the right to depose any prime minister they dislike
they can veto any law
and they have full personal and diplomatic immunity from criminal and civil charges world-wide
and they receive a multi-million dollar "allowance" from the state, in addition to their vast private holdings and investments
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@Sidewalker
So you agree with the rest of us that your ideas are NOT FACTUAL.
MORALITY is NOT an OBJECT
therefore,
MORALITY cannot be OBJECTIVE
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@Sidewalker
there is a clear and important difference between IDEAS and OBJECTSNo shit.IDEAS don't "exist" in the same way that OBJECTS "exist"No shit again.dragons and unicorns don't "exist" in the same way that cattle "exist"Once again, maybe ideas don't exist for you, but they do for the rest of us.
cattle can be empirically measured and are therefore FACTUAL
dragons and unicorns can NOT be empirically measured and are therefore NOT FACTUAL
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@Sidewalker
Just because logic and reason don't exist for you, doesn't mean they don't exist for the rest of us.
there is a clear and important difference between IDEAS and OBJECTS
IDEAS don't "exist" in the same way that OBJECTS "exist"
dragons and unicorns don't "exist" in the same way that cattle "exist"
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@Sidewalker
How do you measure exist, do you have an exist-o-meter
are you familiar with physics and engineering ?
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