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3RU7AL

A member since

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Total posts: 14,582

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Atheism and humanism are completely contradictory
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@Tarik
In the words of you, “please link to” AD HOMINEM ATTACK.
"Some folks are just deliberately dishonest" is an example of,

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Atheists are hypocrites
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@Sidewalker
LOL, if your thought process is so incoherent that you cannot connect the dots, then perhaps you should stop with the constantly declaring yourself to be more logical and rational, it’s got to be embarrassing. Let me try to dumb it down for you, try to follow along, you were blathering on and on about how anyone having faith carries a burden of proof, since it is clear that you don’t understand the definition of faith, I provided it for you.  Please try to understand that when you are discussing something with someone, you don’t just wait for your turn to talk, you read what they say and respond to it, and then they read what you said and they respond, it’s a process, there is a sequence to it.  Now carefully try to comprehend this next thing because it’s important, maybe reading very slowly will help.  Logic involves inference and grasping the interrelation or sequence of statements, if you can’t comprehend inference or how a sequence of staements are related to each other, then you just aren’t capable of being logical.  You are asserting total ignorance of the subject matter, and demonstrating that you lack even the capacity for logic, to then proclaim yourself more rational and logical is ludicrous. Now with that in mind, go back and read these conversations again, recognize the constant back and forth where I keep saying Theism is a matter of “faith” and you keep saying that faith carries a burden of proof, then try to grasp how the sentences are related to each other, then note that I provided the dictionary definition of faith; “strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof”, especially the last part about not being based on proof.  Now try to do that logical inference thing, and try to follow along with the sequence of statements, see if you can grasp the connections and perhaps understand logic.
basically,

"go back and read this entire conversation over again, and if you still don't agree with me, you are not intelligent"

does that sound about right ?
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Atheists are hypocrites
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@Sidewalker
“Knowledge” is defined as “justified true belief”
nope

knowledge is simply data

people obviously have knowledge of both "unjustified" and "untrue" things
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Atheism and humanism are completely contradictory
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@Vici
atheism and reality is contradictory 
please explain
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Atheism and humanism are completely contradictory
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@Tarik
negatively characterizing the MOTIVES of your conversation partner is a text-book AD HOMINEM ATTACK
Not if there motives negatively influence there dialogue.
there is nothing in the definition of AD HOMINEM ATTACK

that makes exceptions for "dialogue influence"
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DEMOCRAT takes SEAT HELD BY GOP for the LAST 50 YEARS
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@ILikePie5
2.) RCV is anything but quick. Exhibit A was New York Mayoral and Exhibit B was Alaska.
i'm not suggesting filling out the ballot itself is "quick"

i'm suggesting that combining an initial election an a "run-off" election reduces the time it takes to figure out who is the winner
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DEMOCRAT takes SEAT HELD BY GOP for the LAST 50 YEARS
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@ILikePie5
1.) More voters vote with runoff voting because there are more opportunities to vote
most people can barely vote once

and even fewer want to do it a second time for the same office

and even fewer for a third time
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DEMOCRAT takes SEAT HELD BY GOP for the LAST 50 YEARS
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@ILikePie5
and there is no "early voting" in a "run-off" election
False. You can early vote for a run off election in the State of Texas
You can request an absentee ballot to vote in a runoff election. This can be challenging, however, when the timeframe between a primary and a runoff election is short, sometimes only two or three weeks. It can be difficult to meet the voting deadline when one must request a mailed ballot, receive the ballot, and send it back. [**]
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DEMOCRAT takes SEAT HELD BY GOP for the LAST 50 YEARS
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@ILikePie5
it's almost impossible to absentee vote in a "run-off" election
False. In my homestate of Texas. You have 2 months to vote by absentee.
so, you have a full two months between the initially scheduled election and the "run-off" election ?
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DEMOCRAT takes SEAT HELD BY GOP for the LAST 50 YEARS
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@ILikePie5
3.) You are misinformed. Alaska did have a primary election. Same with NY Mayoral.
i'm not suggesting they are incompatible with "primary" elections

but they eliminate the NEED for "primary" elections
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Transhumanism leading to a post-tribal world
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@Shila
Skin whiteners have not been very successful at ending tribalism among white nations. Whites have fought  2 world wars and now Russia invades Ukraine which could be a 3rd world war in the making.

Whites have to get to the root cause of their hatred for fellow whites.
yes, religious slaughter is at least as problematic as skin-tone slaughter

people were pretty excited when they discovered oxytocin was great for human bonding, you know, mother and child type stuff, but also works for other human relationships

but then they discovered that it ALSO increases aggression against OUTSIDERS

so,

if you want closer human relationships, you apparently need to be prepared to fight those outside your core group
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Transhumanism leading to a post-tribal world
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@Lemming
I don't currently find myself able to agree it's objectively 'better though,
If a person values their tribe over other tribes, well, that's their value, above humanity.
well stated
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The Queen
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@Elliott
Many of the old estates have been opened up to the public and their owners charge an admission fee to pay for upkeep and maintenance.
this should be done with all royal assets
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Atheism and humanism are completely contradictory
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@Shila
Because objectivity means not subject to opinion. So everyone sharing the same opinion is irrelevant.
Are you saying when people agree and share the same opinion they become irrelevant?
more specifically, everyone sharing the same opinion on something does not make that shared opinion "objective"

it makes that widely shared opinion "intersubjective"

which is not the same as "objective"

anyone claiming to have an "objective opinion" is confused about the definitions of "objective" and "opinion"

because these terms are MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE
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Atheism and humanism are completely contradictory
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@Tarik
Some folks are just deliberately dishonest so that’s not exactly true.
(1) you can't possibly know that (because the internal process of other people is beyond your epistemological limits)

(2) negatively characterizing the MOTIVES of your conversation partner is a text-book AD HOMINEM ATTACK

(3) if you are personally convinced that your conversation partner is arguing in BAD FAITH, then abandon the conversation
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Ukrainian Counteroffensive
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@Greyparrot
It's too bad that no world leader foresaw this coming.
i'm pretty certain they knew exactly what they were doing

line the pockets of the ULTRA RICH OLIGARCHS

and don't give a fuck about the rest of us
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Ukrainian Counteroffensive
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Russia did make overtures at being part of the NATO club after the wall fell.
bingo
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Atheism and humanism are completely contradictory
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@Double_R
So when you say subject to the weather, there are no opinions involved. The weather is what it is regardless of what anyone thinks about it. But when you say something is subject to an individuals say so then that necessarily, means it is dependent on that person’s opinion.
some people love it when it rains

some people hate it when it rains

some people think 50 degrees fahrenheit  is cold

some people think 50 degrees fahrenheit  is warm

"the weather" isn't the point

HOW PEOPLE FEEL ABOUT IT

IS THE ONLY THING THAT IS MEANINGFUL
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Atheism and humanism are completely contradictory
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@Double_R
I recap because you seem to like inventing your own conversations rather than replying to the one you’re actually engaged in.
exactly

it seems nearly impossible for some people to imagine there are TWO VALID points of view when it comes to describing a conversation

one of those is clearly more "important" to one party

and the other is clearly more "important" to the other party

you don't have to ADOPT my perspective, but you do need to at least acknowledge that it exists and is valid
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Ukrainian Counteroffensive
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@ADreamOfLiberty
It appears that all the time since WW2 Russian military theory has barely evolved. The age of the armored spearhead is over, the fact that it worked for the US in Iraq was a false positive.
great point
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Ukrainian Counteroffensive
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@Greyparrot
The USD is as strong as ever.
Wut? lolz.
exactly
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The Queen
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@Elliott
the sticker price of the assets doesn't include the SAVINGS of all the maintenance and upkeep expenses

many old estates can't afford these fees and are forced to sell and or fall into disrepair
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DEMOCRAT takes SEAT HELD BY GOP for the LAST 50 YEARS
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@Greyparrot
but this is basically like FORCING people to show up for a "run-off" which seems impossible
Many European nations have enforced voting. It's not a new concept. It's like jury duty.
i'm not saying it doesn't exist

i'm saying that this is not currently the case and would be a massive change of policy
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DEMOCRAT takes SEAT HELD BY GOP for the LAST 50 YEARS
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@ILikePie5
You do not know what disenfranchisement is then.
the electoral college "winner-take-all" model disenfranchises voters
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DEMOCRAT takes SEAT HELD BY GOP for the LAST 50 YEARS
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@ILikePie5
Plus there are external factors for why turnout is lower for runoffs
who gives a fuck what the reasons are

low turnout for "run-off" elections

is just one of the many factors that

makes RCV clearly superior
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DEMOCRAT takes SEAT HELD BY GOP for the LAST 50 YEARS
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@ILikePie5
My argument here is if you want RCV, Force voters to rank 1.2.3.4
i actually don't have a problem with this

please complete all the selections on your ballot

but this is basically like FORCING people to show up for a "run-off" which seems impossible
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DEMOCRAT takes SEAT HELD BY GOP for the LAST 50 YEARS
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@ILikePie5
There could be a scandal.
AFTER the regularly scheduled election ??????????

that's not going to make any difference
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DEMOCRAT takes SEAT HELD BY GOP for the LAST 50 YEARS
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@ILikePie5
With more information. There is no objective benefit to doing RCV. It has been a disaster wherever it’s been done
citation please
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DEMOCRAT takes SEAT HELD BY GOP for the LAST 50 YEARS
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@ILikePie5
You don’t have to take time off of work. There’s early voting, absentee.
it's almost impossible to absentee vote in a "run-off" election

and there is no "early voting" in a "run-off" election
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DEMOCRAT takes SEAT HELD BY GOP for the LAST 50 YEARS
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@ILikePie5
So what? You have yet to explain why RCV is better than runoffs in any aspect.
higher voter participation, quicker results, also eliminates the need for "primary" elections

it's a win win win
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DEMOCRAT takes SEAT HELD BY GOP for the LAST 50 YEARS
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@Greyparrot
The only way for them to be comparable is to enforce RCV voters to make choices
are people who vote in an election FORCED to show up a second time for a "run-off" ????
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TRIBALISM = GOOD
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@Shila
It is clear from the Canadian study more black teachers are needed because black students stay in school longer and get better grades. 
does this hold true for OTHER skin-tones ?
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The Queen
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@badger
holy jeezus why does anyone care about this
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The Queen
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@Elliott
They are not poor but most of what they have belongs to “The Crown,” which is a term used to represent the legal position of Monarch as head of state, rather than personally or as an individual. So all the stuff like the palaces and the jewels actually belong to the state.
and should be auctioned off and given to THE PEOPLE or at least made available for PUBLIC USE
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The Queen
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@Shila
They were portrayed as serial killers.
You said it your self, “I said that the language used to attack them was of a kind normally reserved for serial killers.”
does anyone remember the massacres of citizens in india ?
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Well Debate.org is dead.
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@Shila
So retired people voting are good for democracy.
every valid vote is GOOD for democracy
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DEMOCRAT takes SEAT HELD BY GOP for the LAST 50 YEARS
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@ILikePie5
I can’t believe you think RCV and Runoffs are the same thing. I’m not against RCV. I’m against ballot exhaustion. Because your vote does not count at all. In fact it disenfranchises those who would come and vote in the runoff.
turn-out for a "run-off" election is ALWAYS lower than the FIRST election

with this in mind, a "run-off" election DISENFRANCHISES MORE VOTERS BECAUSE ALL OF THE VOTES FROM THE FIRST ELECTION ARE TOSSED OUT
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DEMOCRAT takes SEAT HELD BY GOP for the LAST 50 YEARS
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@ILikePie5
No it’s not. Run offs have a separate election process after a certain time period. Two separate elections.
by design, only the candidate with the lowest vote total is eliminated and their votes move to "second choice"

it seems insane to make EVERYONE take time off of work and schedule volunteer poll workers and coordinate an entire second or third election

when only maybe 4 or 5% of the voters (or less) need to "revote"

everyone else's vote goes to their FIRST CHOICE, and why would anyone change their FIRST CHOICE in a "run-off" (unless they KNEW their candidate was in last place) ?
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DEMOCRAT takes SEAT HELD BY GOP for the LAST 50 YEARS
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@ADreamOfLiberty
This is correct, but like I said there should theoretically be a system that allows a voter's full relative preferences to be expressed without the need to consider tactics.
there are plurality voting systems that elect based on the least disliked candidate

one example would be a vote where your first choice would get 5 points per vote

and your second choice would get 4 points per vote

and your third choice would get 3 points per vote, and so on

ALL of the point are totalled on the first count

and the candidate with the highest total points wins
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DEMOCRAT takes SEAT HELD BY GOP for the LAST 50 YEARS
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@Shila
If you pick all four choices as the same (choice one). Then any which way you count is the winner will be choice one.
that's not even close to how this works
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DEMOCRAT takes SEAT HELD BY GOP for the LAST 50 YEARS
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@Shila
If your first choice was bad why would anyone think your second choice should be considered?
it only counts if there is no first round winner

just like a "run-off" election
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DEMOCRAT takes SEAT HELD BY GOP for the LAST 50 YEARS
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@ILikePie5
False. Runoffs are completely separate elections
RCV is also called "instant run-off"

it's exactly the same as a "run-off"

except you don't have to drive to the polls twice

exactly the same

IF you can vote twice for the same office on different days (inarunoff)

THEN you can vote twice for the same office on the same day (RCV)
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DEMOCRAT takes SEAT HELD BY GOP for the LAST 50 YEARS
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@Shila
If your first choice was bad why would anyone think your second choice should be considered?
because, it's exactly the same as the "run-off" elections

we already conduct

it is exactly the same, only more efficient, so you don't have to go to the polls twice or three times
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DEMOCRAT takes SEAT HELD BY GOP for the LAST 50 YEARS
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@Shila
RCV is unconstitutional.

The rule is “one person one vote”.

RCV allows choice up to 4 choices for every voter.
each voter only gets one vote

ONE VOTE

if and only if their candidate is the lowest ranked, AND a "run-off" election WOULD BE REQUIRED PER NORMAL PROCEDURE (because nobody received at least 51% of the total votes cast)

then and only then is the second choice vote, and only the second choice vote is counted for people who voted for the LOWEST RANKED CANDIDATE ONLY

functionally this is exactly the same as a "run-off" election

without the inconvenience of physically driving back out to the polls a second or even a third time
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DEMOCRAT takes SEAT HELD BY GOP for the LAST 50 YEARS
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@ADreamOfLiberty
The fact that you are a champion of ranked choice voting (or so orogami implied) and don't seem familiar this dynamic lends enormous credence to my claim that the average voter did not understand the potential consequences. They probably thought "Oh ranked choice voting means I can vote for who I really want to win and it will all work out", but as I have proved that is not the case.
please explain how the current "primary" system is superior in ANY way
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DEMOCRAT takes SEAT HELD BY GOP for the LAST 50 YEARS
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@ADreamOfLiberty
tactical concerns may contradict with honest preference.
explain to me which voting system doesn't have this "problem"
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DEMOCRAT takes SEAT HELD BY GOP for the LAST 50 YEARS
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@ILikePie5
If you want RCV, there should be no option for ballot exhaustion. Rank all the candidates from 1-100, so every voter has a vote. Right now the system is that you can vote, but your vote may not necessary count in the final results. How is that uphold one person one vote?
this is exactly the same as failing to show up for a "run-off" election

should all voters be REQUIRED BY LAW to show up for a "run-off" ?
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DEMOCRAT takes SEAT HELD BY GOP for the LAST 50 YEARS
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@ADreamOfLiberty
If 58,973 who preferred Palin over Begich put down Begich as their 1st choice (lying as it were)
they should not lie

you can't fault a system

if the voters are lying
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DEMOCRAT takes SEAT HELD BY GOP for the LAST 50 YEARS
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@ILikePie5
RCV is unconstitutional imo if you allow for ballot exhaustion. If we are talking about one person, one vote. Someone who votes for Begich then Palin matter more than someone who just votes Begich. The letters vote doesn’t even count. So, even though they voted, they actually didn’t because Begich came in third, not second.
jesus christ, it's EXACTLY THE SAME as a "run-off" election

does a "run-off" election violate "1 voter = 1 vote" ?

since they are called back to the same poll and vote on the same office a second time ?
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TRIBALISM = GOOD
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@oromagi
but those distinctions faded in just a couple hundred years.
ok, great, everything will solve itself
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