3RU7AL's avatar

3RU7AL

A member since

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Total posts: 14,582

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Abortion is NOT Murder, and it is perfectly SAFE
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@zedvictor4
And all women should be aware that they have participated in unprotected sexual intercourse.
unless they recently had a job interview with bill cosby
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The Four Stages of Republican Misinformation
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@thett3
I wish that none of those people were winning primaries. Does it bother you at least a little bit that the Democratic Party has spent millions boosting “election deniers” because they think they’ll be easier to beat? 
bingo
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The Four Stages of Republican Misinformation
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@Double_R
Let’s try this again. Do you believe in the idea that the people should be able to choose who represents them within their government?
generally, yes

but there are a lot of different types of selection, and many of them are less than ideal
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What is the Universe Expanding Into?
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@Sidewalker
The question becomes, what is it expanding into?
NOUMENON
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CHALLENGE
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@Vici
Who's the best debater here? I wish to challenge them.
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Abortion is NOT Murder, and it is perfectly SAFE
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@TWS1405
But cellular life is not = to personhood.
bingo
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Abortion is NOT Murder, and it is perfectly SAFE
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@K_Michael
Nothing is perfectly safe. I would say that on balance early term abortion is likely safer than carrying a baby to term for the mother for her long-term health.
well stated
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The Four Stages of Republican Misinformation
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@Double_R
Do you believe in democracy?
if by "democracy" you mean "tyranny of the 51%" then the answer would be "no"

if by "democracy" you mean "consensus government" then the answer would be "yes"

The Northwest Territories is one of only two jurisdictions in Canada with a consensus system of government instead of one based on party politics.

In our system, all Members of the Legislative Assembly (MLAs) are elected as independents.

Shortly after the election, all Members meet as a Caucus to set priorities for that Assembly.

The Caucus remains active throughout their term as the forum where all Members meet as equals.

Members who are not in Cabinet are referred to as Regular Members. They become the “unofficial opposition.”

They are responsible, through questioning in the House and the work of standing committees, for holding the government accountable and responsive to the people of the Northwest Territories.

Compared to the party system, there is much more communication between Regular Members and Cabinet.

All legislation, major policies, and proposed budgets pass through the Regular Members’ standing committees before coming to the House.

This gives Members a chance to make changes and put their “fingerprints” on initiatives before they’re made public, unlike in other systems.

This influence comes at a price for Regular Members: they often get advance notice of announcements and issues before the public does, but can’t tell their constituents.

The 11 Regular Members also hold the balance of power, as only seven Cabinet Ministers are elected.

A Cabinet that ignores the direction favored by the majority soon runs into trouble.

Even so, consensus government does not mean that unanimous agreement is necessary for decisions to be made, motions passed, and legislation enacted. A simple majority carries the vote. [**]
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Atheism is simply "a lack of belief"
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@zedvictor4
Without any depth of consideration I have always assumed that you were human.

Foolish perhaps?
i'd say less than "foolish"

more like, "unnecessary"
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Atheism is simply "a lack of belief"
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@zedvictor4
Therefore you did "that" without consideration or effort.
we're only considering conscious thoughts here

i'm fascinated by your attempt to read-my-mind

It is important to maintain a constant awareness of and vigilant respect of our epistemological limits.
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Why are so many resilient to fact-based truth regarding black criminality?
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@TWS1405
Again, not all ad hominems are true ad hominems when factually accurate. 
there is nothing in the definition of ad hominem attack that disqualifies "factually accurate" personal attacks

the only cases when discussion of someone's personal motives and or state-of-mind and or general character and or personal history and or resume is NOT an ad hominem attack are as follows,

(1) if the person themselves and or their motives and or their state-of-mind and or general character and or personal history and or resume is THE TOPIC ITSELF (insead of a distraction from the topic, which qualifies as a red herring)

OR (2) if the person themselves CLAIMS AUTHORITY by injecting their personal history and or resume and or their OWN motives and or state-of-mind into a discussion that is otherwise NOT about them personally
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The Four Stages of Republican Misinformation
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@Double_R
i agree with you that the republicans are dangerous

but they are NOT "more" dangerous than the democrats
Do you believe in democracy?
Democratic Party leads nationwide purge of Green Party candidates from November ballots [**]
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Why are so many resilient to fact-based truth regarding black criminality?
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@Ramshutu
Another Ad-hominem attack, and appeal to authority
bingo
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The Four Stages of Republican Misinformation
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@Ramshutu
And worse - if anyone dares to suggest anything that actually harms the interests of that elite - wealth tax, corporate tax, more oversight, patent reform, breaking up too successful companies, empowering unions to bolster individuals economic power, reduce military spending. The right, and all their supporters - all suddenly bat for that elite - due to the collective dependence upon them. “We must do something about the elites - except anything - we can’t do anything against the elites - that would be radical socialism - and would harm the economy”
i wonder why clinton and obama didn't do any of these things
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The Four Stages of Republican Misinformation
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@Ramshutu
 and who frequently pushes, and often pass laws and changes antithetical to the power of that oligarchies.
citation please
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The Four Stages of Republican Misinformation
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@Ramshutu
solely because of the constant and repeated whataboutism and misinformation from the right,
you'd think if i was buying the republican bullshit

i'd be in love with republicans

and that is certainly not the case
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The Four Stages of Republican Misinformation
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@Ramshutu
So even on these grounds - this should be a clear cut reason that even if all the other stuff above is not true - if RCV is your main goal - then you should absolutely support democrats - they’re the ones that are primarily pushing it.
this is certainly good news

but not ALL democrats are in support of "leveling the playingfield"

Democratic Party leads nationwide purge of Green Party candidates from November ballots [**]
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The Four Stages of Republican Misinformation
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@Ramshutu
If you feel that my reasoning is because of what I’m being told by the democrat - then you absolutely and clearly have not understood a single word of any of my posts in this thread.
where are you receiving the data that informs your opinions of "the republican party" ?

are you receiving your data from "self described republicans" ?

are you receiving your data from "official republican sources" ?

i agree with you that the republicans are dangerous

but they are NOT "more" dangerous than the democrats

biden is pushing more "tough on crime" bs (which is a traditionally republican talking-point)

and 100% of them voted for the patriot-act and 100% of them voted for the war-in-ukraine and iraq and afghanistan and syria

By refusing to prosecute Bush-era officials for their culpability in major human rights abuses such as the CIA program and Abu Ghraib, [**]

The Untouchables: How the Obama administration protected Wall Street from prosecutions [**]
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The Four Stages of Republican Misinformation
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@Ramshutu
Correct - but it will, of course, prevent them from taking over. Even if I accept the premise - the choice is not oligarchy, vs oligarchy - it’s “oligarchy” vs “oligarchy that may well deteriorate into authoritarianism”.
Los Angeles mayor threatens to cut power and water to nonessential businesses remaining open [**]
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what are some of your radical but controversial opinions
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@Double_R
There is no scenario where we could be guaranteed a particular outcome by getting rid of a large block of voters, unless the intent was to deprive that voting block of their prosperity or basic rights.
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Are there any normal people on this site or just Wack jobs?
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@ADreamOfLiberty
you're looking for a book club not debate
nice
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Atheism is simply "a lack of belief"
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@zedvictor4
I would therefore further suggest that actually and without consideration, you accept that I am human, rather than actually invoking the necessity of belief.
i cannot do that
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Atheism is simply "a lack of belief"
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@zedvictor4
Belief is an imaginative hypothesis not founded on the basis of factual knowledge.
i believe you are human

i do not know you are human

but i believe it is reasonable to infer you are human
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"Open Your Eyes"
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@Athias
the accusation that Jeb Bush (George W. Bush's brother) who was the governor of Florida at the time, somehow influenced the court decisions in favor of his brother.
don't forget katherine harris
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Atheism is simply "a lack of belief"
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@ebuc
AI systems do not have common sense knowledge
this is demonstrably false
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The Four Stages of Republican Misinformation
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@Ramshutu
Let’s stop arguing about how bad the cowsh*t is, whilst not mentioning that there is a bomb containing TNT in the room too - and defuse the bomb on the right containing the TNT.
phenomenal example

i think we're nearly on the same page here

but you're overlooking one very important detail

if you're afraid of the "crazy conspiracy nutjobs"

voting for CORPORATE OLIGARCH DEMOCRATS

instead of CORPORATE OLIGARCH REPUBLICANS

will not somehow magically make all the "crazy conspiracy nutjobs" disappear

the only reason you fear the "republican establishment" more than you fear the "democrat establishment" is because the democrats are doing everything in their power to make you think that every single republican is an alex jones fanatic

this is nowhere near the truth

alex jones doesn't even support the republican establishment

THEY'VE LOCKED EVERYONE INTO THINKING IN BLACK-AND-WHITE

so we don't notice how simple the solution to all of this is

RCV FTW
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The Four Stages of Republican Misinformation
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@Ramshutu
I feel we are talking at two different levels. Practical and theoretical. In some theoretical future with no consideration of how to get from A to B: does the party political system need to be completely overhauled, and new parties exist and share power: I have some concerns - but I largely agree. I am not talking about the theoretical in this thread, but the very immediate practical political environment we are in today.
it's not even that big of an obstacle to overcome

RCV FTW
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"Open Your Eyes"
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@Danielle
Ranked Choice Voting?
exactly
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Atheism is simply "a lack of belief"
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@Polytheist-Witch
If you want clarification then you need to ask them further do you believe in anything or practice anything spiritual.
bingo
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The DIFFERENCE BETWEEN LOGIC and REASON
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@FLRW
Is the only reason you are virtuous because that’s your ticket to heaven?
those who act only for the promise of reward (heaven) are mercenaries

those who act only out of fear of punishment (hell) are slaves
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Atheism is simply "a lack of belief"
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@oromagi
and the PRIMARY definition is the first one listed (in dictionaries)

I know this was said before in the debate comments but the order of listing in most dictionaries depends on frequency of use.

When WIKTIONARY defines ATHEISM as

atheism (usually uncountableplural atheisms)
  1. (strictly) Belief that no deities exist (sometimes including rejection of other religious beliefs). 
  2. (broadly) Rejection of belief that any deities exist (with or without a belief that no deities exist). 
  3. (very broadly) Absence of belief that any deities exist (including absence of the concept of deities). 
  4. (historical) Absence of belief in a particular deity, pantheon, or religious doctrine (notwithstanding belief in other deities). 
that means that your preference comes third in terms of common usage.

When LEXICO and WEBSTER combine the first and third meanings, that brings usage to the top

Atheism: Disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods. [LEXICO]

Atheism: a lack of belief or a strong disbelief in the existence of a god or any gods [WEBSTER]
we seem to be making some headway here
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Atheism is simply "a lack of belief"
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@oromagi
  • Your premise was quickly disproved.
it takes almost zero rhetorical skill to claim something has been "disproved"

it takes slightly more rhetorical skill to convince someone (other than yourself) that something has been "disproved"
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The DIFFERENCE BETWEEN LOGIC and REASON
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@oromagi
Again, If I have to choose between you and Asimov to define any word, I am going with Asimov every time.
i'm very impressed with your ability to convince yourself
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The DIFFERENCE BETWEEN LOGIC and REASON
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@oromagi
  • It is irrational to infer "A is never B" from the statement "A is an element of the set AB"
are you suggesting that logic is like pure mathematics

and reason is like applied mathematics ?
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The DIFFERENCE BETWEEN LOGIC and REASON
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@oromagi
Asimov disagrees. 
i'll keep that in mind the next time i speak with asimov
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Atheism is simply "a lack of belief"
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@oromagi
  • Two months ago, I explained to you that there's no such thing as primary definition.  There are strict definitions and broad definition and a broad definition must never replace the strictest (most semantically specific) meaning of any word.
most words have MORE THAN ONE definition listed (in dictionaries)

and the PRIMARY definition is the first one listed (in dictionaries)
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Atheism is simply "a lack of belief"
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@oromagi
  • Your OP stated:
    • (IFF) we can agree that language only exists to serve as a means of clear communication between humans with as little error and miscommunication as possible (THEN) we can agree that removing and or modifying the definitions of words to make them less logically incoherent serves the core function of language itself
      • Your premise was quickly disproved.
THIS IS A CONDITIONAL STATEMENT

IFF WE CAN'T AGREE ON THE FIRST STATEMENT

THEN OBVIOUSLY WE CAN'T AGREE ON THE SECOND STATEMENT
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Atheism is simply "a lack of belief"
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@Double_R
Except that as demonstrated above, lacking belief in a deity is not mutually exclusive to disbelieving in a deity.
exactly
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Atheism is simply "a lack of belief"
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@Polytheist-Witch
Those practices do not incorporate or require a belief in a deity.
who are you and what have you done with poly ?
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The Second Amendment - obsolete and in need of reform
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@TWS1405
Nope. Just vocalizing an observation. 
for no-reason
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The DIFFERENCE BETWEEN LOGIC and REASON
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@ADreamOfLiberty
That is what an axiom is, an inescapable premise.
bingo
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The Second Amendment - obsolete and in need of reform
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@TWS1405
Clearly your comprehension of understanding each term and their usage is subpar. 
another ad hominem attack
Nope. Observation. Not all ad hominems are true ad hominems. 
it's either an attempt to discredit me personally

or

a totally random off-topic non-sequitur

which you posted for no-reason and with no conscious intent
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The Four Stages of Republican Misinformation
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@Double_R
"Because if they didn't vote for a lizard," said Ford, "the wrong lizard might get in.
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The DIFFERENCE BETWEEN LOGIC and REASON
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@oromagi
"A robot is logical but a robot is not reasonable."
by using this quote to make your point, you're conflating "common sense" with "reason"

you are doing this
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The DIFFERENCE BETWEEN LOGIC and REASON
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@oromagi
As such, I think we might want to defer to el Maestro's word choice here as correct and appropriate.
argumentum ad verecundiam
Argumentum ad Verecundiam fallacy (argument from inappropriate authority): an appeal to the testimony of an authority outside of the authority's special field of expertise.

Since I made a lot of effort to demonstrate that Asimov is one of the all time greatest authorities on the proper use of the word reason, your knee-jerk resort to claims of fallacy without understanding how that fallacy functions is silly and super fucking fallacious itself.
asimov is not the one true arbiter of language itself
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The DIFFERENCE BETWEEN LOGIC and REASON
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@oromagi
I said:
  • Logic describes a system, a methodology that informs REASON.
Oxford said:
  • [REASON] forms "judgments by a process of logic."
These statements are in agreement.  What are you failing to understand?
how do you specifically propose we disentangle "logic" from "reason"
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Atheism is simply "a lack of belief"
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@oromagi
clearly the words "a lack of belief" are included

i was arguing the entire time for inclusion

you seemed to be adamantly arguing for exclusion

you and only you are pretending that the title of this thread is somehow magically "the (immutable) debate resolution"

when clearly your personal understanding of the term "merely" (and or "simply")  as a synonym for "exclusively" is something i've never encountered before

three of the four dictionary examples use "lack of belief" or "absence of belief" as the PRIMARY definition

which clearly refutes what you claim was your primary objection to "lack of belief"
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Texas is right to send illegal immigrants to liberal cities
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@TheUnderdog
They need jobs which would be stealing from poor Americans.
Not going to happen because in addition to being a worker, every undocumented immigrant is also a customer.  Workers take jobs from the economy, yet customers produce them at a proportional rate.  America has the most number of undocumented immigrants ever in our history for the most part and for the most part, the lowest unemployment rate, even after the libs fucked up the economy due to COVID.  The undocumented don’t cause the unemployment rate to rise.
bingo
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Atheism is simply "a lack of belief"
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@oromagi
Atheism, in the broadest sense, is an absence of belief in the existence of deities. [WIKI]

Atheism: Disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods. [LEXICO]

Atheism: lack of belief in the existence of God or gods [OXFORD]

Atheism: a lack of belief or a strong disbelief in the existence of a god or any gods [WEBSTER]
And what was my reply the first time you made this point?
a naked rush to declare victory
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The DIFFERENCE BETWEEN LOGIC and REASON
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@oromagi
rea·son

verb

  1. think, understand, and form judgments by a process of logic.
    "humans do not reason entirely from facts"
Precisely.
by a process of logic
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