3RU7AL's avatar

3RU7AL

A member since

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Total posts: 14,582

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MEEP: Reformed ban policy & DebateArt President
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@RationalMadman
Someone reads about the website, goes to the help center and sees the ban log, which by the way includes defamatory bullshit about me, not just others. It has a series of shit twisted out of context, like it says Ethang sexually harassed, he genuinely didn't. Idk about Wylted but even his scenario is really, scarily stated since he's UNBANNED meaning you're suggesting this website harbors someone who did that.

A lot of shit has to be done to the ban log before it should be what a new visitor to the website sees upon intriguingly looking into a 'help center'.
You makes some great points.

However, knowing who (what account name) was banned and for how long and what they were accused of and what actual evidence was presented and what (if any) appeals process is officially in place is critical information for anyone considering joining DART.

When this process is hidden, it breeds suspicion and a lack of transparency generally lends itself to corruption and pettiness.
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MEEP: Reformed ban policy & DebateArt President
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@Vader
2. Plus mods can not always set up community events and such. A president can do such things to involve the community and bring site engagement up
Perhaps "general secretary" (or some other title) might be more palatable than "president" ?
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For Single Christian Men that are looking for a wife!
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@Tradesecret
Your homework Stevie blunder keeps coming up with dum dum ideas like Ethang and Tradesecret are the same person.  Dum dum. That is your research skills to a tee. 
i guess this thread's devolved into 98% AD HOMINEM ATTACKS
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For Single Christian Men that are looking for a wife!
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@BrotherDThomas
This is quite good.
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MEEP: Reformed ban policy & DebateArt President
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@MisterChris
google docs are blocked for me, please link to alternative text
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At what point is it far enough for you right-wing nutjobs to call it racist and too far?
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@RationalMadman
the attention-thirsty racist in denial
AD HOMINEM ATTACK
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At what point is it far enough for you right-wing nutjobs to call it racist and too far?
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@Mesmer
attacking me (calling me a troll, attention seeking, offensive etc.) instead of my arguments is Ad Hominem,
100% THIS.
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At what point is it far enough for you right-wing nutjobs to call it racist and too far?
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@949havoc
What "win" exists in Forum? It's an open-season discussion. That we disagree on this point is obvious, but there is no vote to designate win/lose. Don't make a mountain of a molehill. It looks petty. Take your ball and go home; that's your choice.
Well stated.
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At what point is it far enough for you right-wing nutjobs to call it racist and too far?
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@Mesmer
My character has nothing to do with the validity of my arguments.
100% THIS.
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At what point is it far enough for you right-wing nutjobs to call it racist and too far?
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@zedvictor4
What is a half breed?

Well everyone is a half breed I suppose, in so much as they have two parents.
Well stated.
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Why Are Scientists Overwhelmingly on The Left?
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@ethang5
So a man can'T act like and dress like a woman because it makes You feels uncomfortable.
A girl can'T choose whether or not to maintain her own pregnancy because it makes You feels bad.
A person can'T flee persecution and poverty because You feels afraid of scary dirty foreigners.
Some people are the evil and or privileged if You feels they are.
Homosexuality is immoral because the very thought of dicks in assholes makes You feels icky.
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Why Are Scientists Overwhelmingly on The Left?
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@Athias
Yes, there is no room for distinction between "concrete" and "abstract." I value scientific integrity no more than I do spiritual integrity.
It sounds like your primary concern is logical-coherence.

PERFECT GOD = PERFECT WORLD

IMPERFECT WORLD = IMPERFECT GOD
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3 Rules of Civil Debate
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@zedvictor4
"Expertise is a scam" is a scam.
 
Notwithstanding the occasional fraud.......Denying real expertise is usually down to jealousy."
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How hypocritical 99% of society is
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@Fruit_Inspector
We agree that you have no foundation to tell anyone not to engage in bestiality, pedophilia, or rape if they want to.
I'll just wave an old book in their face like you do.
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Racism is a nonsense, malicious term
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@Mesmer
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Race Realism: Critical understandings
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@Mesmer
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How hypocritical 99% of society is
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@Fruit_Inspector
Look, I'm perfectly willing to believe in an all powerful omnipotent omniscient creator of all things.

That's fine.

That's good.

I just want to figure out what this APOOCOAT wants me to do.

You seem to think you know what APOOCOAT wants me to do.

So I'm asking you, how can I figure this out when you're not around for me to ask ?
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Pettiness from extremists
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@RationalMadman
No, it isn't. Culture has moral values as part of it, language doesn't. Learn to read things in context.
I'm not suggesting they're SYNONYMS.

I'm pointing out that they are both DYNAMIC.
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How hypocritical 99% of society is
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@Fruit_Inspector
My question:
Where did I agree that bestiality is exactly as bad as contempt for parents?
You implicitly agreed when you delegated your sense-making to the holy scripture (deuteronomy twenty seven).

Now you are locked into finding a distinction between the two admonitions in the same holy text.
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How hypocritical 99% of society is
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@Fruit_Inspector
Where did I agree that bestiality is exactly as bad as contempt for parents? I asked a specific question and you responded by making a false assertion that didn't actually answer the question.
The exact same phrasing "cursed" is used to condemn bestiality and parental contempt.

And by the way, "honor your mother and father" also appears to share equal gravity with "thou shalt not kill" in the decalogue.

Your holy scripture seems to lack some fundamental precision.
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How hypocritical 99% of society is
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@Fruit_Inspector
You do an excellent job at answering questions I don't ask while ignoring the questions I do ask.
We agree on the text.

You picked the text.
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Why Are Scientists Overwhelmingly on The Left?
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@Athias
You’re a contestant on ‘Who Wants to be a Millionaire?’. You are asked a question pertaining to the field of medicine. Being that you have no medical expertise and have no idea what the answer is, you use your lifeline to ask a crowd of 1,000 doctors. 999 of them tell you its choice A. 1 says it’s choice B. There are no other choices.

For $1 million dollars, what is your final answer and why?
If all 1,000 doctors are "equally qualified" to provide an answer, then it doesn't matter whose counsel I take. The probability of my selecting the correct answer would be still be 50% whether I select choice A or choice B. The fact that 999 doctors chose choice A doesn't make it more reliable or "likely to be" correct as a consequence of comparing the number of doctors who chose choice A to the one doctor who chose choice B. If you are asserting that selecting choice A  is correct or "more likely" to be correct because 999 is greater than one, then that is informed by your feelings; that is not medicine; that is not science; that is not statistical; that is not logical.
It's also worth considering that the QUESTION ITSELF is unlikely to be about a subject "highly disputed and controversial within the medical community" the QUESTION ITSELF is most likely something from a well respected and well referenced textbook that 999 out of 1000 doctors would generally agree upon.
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Why Are Scientists Overwhelmingly on The Left?
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@ethang5
1. Non-alpha men mitriculated to academia.
2. These men tended to hire non-alpha men like themselves.
3. Soon, academia was majority non-alpha men.
4. Non-alpha men tend to be liberal.
4. Scientists are grown in academia.
Aren't all the "alpha-males" too busy bow-hunting to meticulously document double-blind randomized placebo controlled longitudinal physiological studies ?

It takes a certain type of person to "do science" and those people are usually called "obsessive compulsive nerdgeekspodboffins".
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Why Are Scientists Overwhelmingly on The Left?
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@ethang5
Do you not yet know that certain personality types gravitate to certain careers more than to others?
Try this [LINK]
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Why Are Scientists Overwhelmingly on The Left?
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@Athias
[God "exists" as a matter of definition] may or may not be a logically coherent claim
A definition of the term, "exist," incorporates spiritual being. God is a spiritual being; therefore God "exists." Lexically speaking, the dispute is resolved rather simply. If however we intend to have more fun with with the notion and explore the scope of existence and define logical parameters, I suppose we could. But as you'd recall, I'm a proponent of, how did you put it, ontological bedrock. I'd simply repeat what I've consistently stated: everything exists, and nonexistence is irrational, much more, value statements which seek to give it information.
sO, basICally, god "exists" with the same validity as lochnessbigfootspacealiens.

Is there no room in your ontology for a distinction between "concrete nouns" and "abstract nouns" ?
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3 Rules of Civil Debate
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@sadolite
Rule #2 is the go to for 99% .  Marginalize and attack the opponents character and play the authority card. Authority card>> You are not a expert or a professional in what ever so you cant comment about anything having to do with that.  Take the covid debate for example, Unless you are an epidemiologist you cant say anything.  My favorite authority card is the "EXPERT"
Expertise is a scam.

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3 Rules of Civil Debate
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@ethang5
You're a winner in my book anyway.
I always enjoy our interactions.
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Pettiness from extremists
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@Mesmer
 Muslims into your country, you're bringing in a
(1) Would you call yourself an "isolationist" ?

(2) Do you believe in "freedom of religion" ?
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Pettiness from extremists
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@RationalMadman
Systemic racism is real but assimilation of Muslims towards a 'Western' culture is dependent on them and the community within that culture. It's neither a definitely yes or definitely no type thing. They do assimilate though, just not always. 
Cult(ure) is like language.

Neither is some sort of eternal immutable monolith.
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Pettiness from extremists
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@Mesmer
The cost of having African Americans in America costs around $1 trillion a year Fiscal Impact by Race in the United States - altCensored . A good policy would be to stop African immigration into the U.S. (or at least vet for the top Africans). We can also (and we are) look into automation and robotics to replace the low-skilled jobs that a lot of African Americans typically do, thus relieve the U.S. of some of the burden of importing the 3rd world to complete these jobs. A similar but lesser problem applies to Hispanics. A solution for Hispanics would be to deport illegals back to South America (this deportation is cost effective because you only need to transport them over the border). You could also limit Hispanic immigration, too. You furthermore replace any African/Hispanic immigration into the U.S. with an Asian and the U.S. would be financially better off.
There it is.
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Pettiness from extremists
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@Mesmer
Stop bombing Middle Eastern countries (and receiving costly terrorist attacks in response: 9/11 costing $3 trillion). Stop supporting Israel (0.38 trillion over the next 10 years). Just get out and leave them all alone.
(EITHER) conquer territory and make the inhabitants american citizens (OR) leave them the fuck alone and respect their sovereignty
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Pettiness from extremists
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@TheUnderdog
Paying off the debt will be easy.
I'm not sure you know how money works.
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How hypocritical 99% of society is
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@Fruit_Inspector
Are you agreeing that the Bible considers bestiality an immoral act to some degree? Because the fundamental issue is if bestiality is immoral.
I'm agreeing that the holy scriptures consider bestiality to be exactly as bad as parental contempt.
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How hypocritical 99% of society is
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@Fruit_Inspector
Because it goes against the natural order. Sex is reserved for a married man and woman - a human man and woman.
If you could write laws, in order to make them as much like your god intended, would you treat all portrayals of non-married and or non-hetero sex (including implicit sexual relationships and or references to self abuse) exactly the same as bestiality ?

ANd if not,

WhY not ?
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How hypocritical 99% of society is
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@Fruit_Inspector
Bestiality is not condemned because of the pain or discomfort caused to the animal.
Perhaps the neighbors filed a noise complaint ?
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How hypocritical 99% of society is
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@Fruit_Inspector
Does the holy scripture perhaps explain when and where it is appropriate to inflict pain and discomfort on other living creatures ?
How is this relevant to the clear command not to engage in bestiality?
It seems likely that one of the two admonitions might be redundant.
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How hypocritical 99% of society is
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@Fruit_Inspector
You're overlooking the foundation, the moral bedrock.
Determining if something is immoral is more foundational than determining how immoral something is.
Determining WHY something is immoral is more foundational than interpreting text.

I read an old book.

The book says "A person who cooks beasts and birds alive is cooked alive in boiling oil by Yamadutas here, for as many years as there were hairs on the bodies of their animal victims."

But this book doesn't go into a lot of detail as to exactly WHY this behavior is immoral and or WHY it should be punished.

Following a book works great if the book EXPLICITLY details every possible moral violation (and sadly this does not appear to be the case).

The book would work much better if it simply revealed the CORE MORAL PRINCIPLES (CoMoPr) on which these otherwise rather arbitrary edicts are founded.
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How hypocritical 99% of society is
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@Fruit_Inspector
Well, there appear to be some subtle, yet rather important distinctions between degrees of "immoral" and I'd like to make sure we're all on the same page.
The original question was question whether bestiality is immoral or not. If we agree that it can be categorized as "immoral," then the degree of immorality is irrelevant. We have already answered the original question.
ALSO,

Does the holy scripture perhaps explain when and where it is appropriate to inflict pain and discomfort on other living creatures ?
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How hypocritical 99% of society is
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@Fruit_Inspector
Well, there appear to be some subtle, yet rather important distinctions between degrees of "immoral" and I'd like to make sure we're all on the same page.
The original question was question whether bestiality is immoral or not. If we agree that it can be categorized as "immoral," then the degree of immorality is irrelevant. We have already answered the original question.
You're overlooking the foundation, the moral bedrock.

HOW exactly did you reach that conclusion (the bible tells me so) and HOW exactly can we determine the degree of "immorality" of any particular act ?

The degree seems to be salient, since the text you referred to presents parental-contempt and bestiality exactly the same.
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How hypocritical 99% of society is
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@Fruit_Inspector
Can you be slightly more specific ?
Why? Even if it did somehow require equal punishment under the law, that wouldn't change the fact that bestiality is immoral.
Well, there appear to be some subtle, yet rather important distinctions between degrees of "immoral" and I'd like to make sure we're all on the same page.

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How hypocritical 99% of society is
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@Fruit_Inspector
They should both carry equal penalties under the law.

For example, video of children speaking ill of their own parents (or even parents in general) should be censored in the same manner and with the same urgency as bestiality.
If you have read the book of Leviticus, you would know what a ridiculous statement that is - if you are seeking to apply consistent principles of textual interpretation of course.
Can you be slightly more specific ?
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How hypocritical 99% of society is
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@Fruit_Inspector
If they are both considered morally evil, then what point are you trying to make?
They should both carry equal penalties under the law.

For example, video of children speaking ill of their own parents (or even parents in general) should be censored in the same manner and with the same urgency as bestiality.
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Why Are Scientists Overwhelmingly on The Left?
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@Athias
I don't employ what is typically known as the "ontological argument" to demonstrate God's existence.
[God "exists" as a matter of definition] may or may not be a logically coherent claim
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@Fruit_Inspector
The fact that we are having a dialogue shows me you understand at least the most basic principles of textual interpretation. Do I really need to explain things such as definitions, grammar, and authorial intent for you to understand what I am referring to?
(IFF) bestiality is prohibited because of deuteronomy 27 (THEN) parental contempt must also be equally prohibited because of deuteronomy 27

What specific aspect of "consistent-principles-of-textual-interpretation" (CPOTI) makes you suspect the two should NOT be equally prohibited ?
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How hypocritical 99% of society is
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@Athias
I can show deference to that stance so long as the reasoning is consistent.
It's a purely conditional statement.

(IFF) causing pain and or discomfort to animals is "morally wrong" (THEN) slaughtering animals must also be at least equally "morally wrong"

(IFF) causing pain and or discomfort to animals is "morally neutral" (THEN) slaughtering animals must also be at least equally "morally neutral"

(IFF) bestiality is prohibited because of deuteronomy 27 (THEN) parental contempt must also be equally prohibited because of deuteronomy 27
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How hypocritical 99% of society is
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@Fruit_Inspector
Consistent principles of textual interpretation.
I'm just curious if the "consistent-principles-of-textual-interpretation" (CPOTI) status is based on some coherent-moral-principle (CoMoPr) or just more of a "gut instinct" ?

Can you summarize the core "consistent-principles-of-textual-interpretation" (CPOTI) ?
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How hypocritical 99% of society is
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@Fruit_Inspector
It's nice to know that the admonishment against bestiality is condemned with the exact same gravity as parental contempt.
That depends on how you understand the term "cursed." The point is that bestiality is clearly condemned. But it doesn't take a biblical scholar to see the depravity involved in humans having sex with animals.
There's a pretty long list of admonishments with the exact same phrasing.

How can you tell which one's are "black & white" and which ones are "gentle suggestions" ?
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Why Are Scientists Overwhelmingly on The Left?
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@Athias
Yes, If a majority of people believe in God it doesn’t make it true.
Doesn't make what true? That they believe in God? The existence of God is not contingent on how many people believe it. God exists as a matter of definition and a matter of logical consequence.
WARNING: ONTOLOGICAL ARGUMENT
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How hypocritical 99% of society is
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@Fruit_Inspector
  • ‘Cursed is he who lies with any animal.’ And all the people shall say, ‘Amen.’ (Deuteronomy 27:21)

  • ‘Cursed is the one who treats his father or his mother with contempt.’ (Deuteronomy 27:16)

It's nice to know that the admonishment against bestiality is condemned with the exact same gravity as parental contempt.
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How hypocritical 99% of society is
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@Athias
And one could argue that even plant-based foods can serve the purpose of gastronomical gratification.
Sure, I never suggested ALL plants are healthy.

I'm merely trying to point out that nobody is shocking potatoes with cattle prods in order to get them to move from one cage to another.
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