Total posts: 4,833
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@Swagnarok
... and your definition of "war criminal" is?Since these men are war criminals who invaded a peaceful country, and have probably committed murder in doing so, this outcome wouldn't be unjust.
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An example of a left-triber who is not in the deep state.
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@Double_R
correction: people creating unprecedented circumstances.people reacting to unprecedented circumstances
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Left-triber uses disinformation and identity theft to try and win an election. This is the worst of what Russia was accused of sponsoring in 2016.
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HistoryBuff knows all about slander.They constantly slander anyone who disagrees with them as
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@SocraticGregarian96
I’m asking everyone here about the assassination:Questions:Was it justified? If so, how and why.
No, Trump is the least tyrannical outcome.
Will there be more?
Probably
Does it bother you that Kamala or Walz did not denounce it?
No
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@Greyparrot
Why would Indians not worship Kamala, is it because Kamala is no longer an Indian?
These poor misguided souls have never learned to place racial consciousness above all else. As such they are no better than those white people who used to be black until they couldn't figure out whether to vote for Biden or Trump.
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@Best.Korea
Excuse my going to save that so everybody knows why I can't be asked.What's wrong with being wrong?Right and wrong are subjective, just as logic is subjective. But I dont know whats wrong with being wrong. I am simply never wrong so I dont know how it feels like.
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@Double_R
So the deep state is anyone in or affiliated with government who supports Harris.
Hey if you think the set of "warmongering liars breaking precedent by public endorsements" overlaps perfectly with "anyone in or affiliated with government who supports Harris" that's your call. It's not what I said.
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@Double_R
Having fun with the robot/baiter? I think it would be more fun to go after flat earthers.
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According to Fox News:
Nine high-ranking former national security and military officials who signed a letter Sunday endorsing Vice President Harris’ run for the Oval Office also signed a letter nearly four years ago dismissing Hunter Biden’s infamous laptop as Russian disinformation ahead of the 2020 election, Fox News Digital found.
A reminder of who those were:
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Alfred L. Stettner, former Group Director, Central Intelligence Agency
Ambassador John Todd Stewart (Ret)
Mary Stickney, former Senior Advisor, Federal Judiciary
Rear Admiral William S. Stokes, D.V.M., USPHS (Ret), former National Toxicology Program Center Director, National Institutes of Health
Sergeant Major Kurtis J. Strickland, USA (Ret)
Kenneth T. Stringer, Jr., Ph.D., former Division Chief, Central Intelligence Agency
Sergeant Major Peni Mene Sua, USA (Ret)
Ambassador Joseph Gerard Sullivan (Ret), former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State
Maura C. Sullivan, former Assistant Secretary of Veterans Affairs
Gordon Sumner, Ph.D., former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense
Brigadier General Loree Sutton, M.D., USA (Ret)
Major General Tony Taguba, USA (Ret)
Major General Michael R. Taheri, USAF (Ret)
Brigadier General Francis Xavier Taylor, USAF (Ret), former Ambassador, former Under Secretary of Homeland Security
Jarris Louis Taylor, Jr., Ed.D., former Deputy Assistant Secretary of the Air Force
Caroline Tess, former Special Assistant to the President, National Security Council
Ambassador Harry K. Thomas, Jr. (Ret), former Director General, State Dept
Mary G. Thompson, former Deputy Director of the Crime and Narcotics Center, Central Intelligence Agency
Brigadier General Phillip J. Thorpe, USA (Ret)
John Tien, former Deputy Secretary of Homeland Security
Helen Tierney, former Assistant Secretary of Veterans Affairs
Catherine A. Tobin, former Deputy Assistant to the President, National Security Council
Miles F. Toder, Ph.D., Counselor (Ret), former Senior Development Counselor, USAID
Carlton Paul Tolsdorf, Jr., former Senior Program Manager, ODNI
Amy Lou Tozzi, former Component Chief, Central Intelligence Agency
Major General Jonathan Treacy, USAF (Ret)
Gregory Frye Treverton, former Chair, National Intelligence Council
Lieutenant General William J. Troy, USA (Ret)
Major General Andrew Turley, USAF (Ret), former Deputy General Counsel, Dept of the Air Force
Vivian Leonard Turnbull, former Assistant Director of Intelligence, Defense Intelligence Agency
Christine Leigh Turner, former Director, National Security Council
M. Ann Tutwiler, former Deputy Director General, UN Food and Agriculture Organization
Brigadier General William Uhle, Jr., USAF (Ret)
Brigadier General Robin B. Umberg, USA (Ret)
Thomas Umberg, former Deputy Director, Office of National Drug Control Policy, Spouse of retired Senior Military Leader
Sergeant Major Denise A. Underwood, USA (Ret)
Rear Admiral William Craig Vanderwagen, M.D., USPHS (Ret), former Assistant Secretary for Preparedness, HHS
Ambassador Alexander R. Vershbow (Ret), former NATO Deputy Secretary General
Ambassador Shari Villarosa (Ret)
Tom Vilsack, former Governor of Iowa
Alexander S. Vindman, former Director, National Security Council
David E. Wade, former Chief of Staff, State Dept
Alex Wagner, former Chief of Staff to the Secretary of the Army
General Chuck Francis Wald, USAF (Ret)
Ambassador Marc Wall (Ret)
Brigadier General George H. Walls, Jr., USMC (Ret)
Ambassador James D. Walsh (Ret)
Brigadier General Steve Warnstadt, USA (Ret)
Adrienne Watson, former Senior Director, National Security Council
Jack H. Watson, Jr., former White House Chief of Staff
Rear Admiral James A. Watson, USCG (Ret), former Director, Dept of the Interior
Ambassador Earl Anthony Wayne (Ret), former Assistant Secretary of State
Andy Weber, former Assistant Secretary of Defense
William F. Wechsler, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense
Todd A. Weiler, former Assistant Secretary of Defense
Lieutenant General Jack Weinstein, USAF (Ret)
Gail Berry West, J.D., former Deputy Assistant Secretary of the Air Force
Rear Admiral Hugh D. Wetherald, USN (Ret)
Major General Deborah C. Wheeling, USA (Ret)
Major General Craig B. Whelden, USA (Ret), former Executive Director of Marine Corps Forces Pacific, Dept of the Navy
Ambassador Kevin Whitaker (Ret), former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State
Ambassador Barry B. White (Fmr)
Jon A. Wiant, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State
Sergeant Major Alexander Williams, USMC (Ret)
Ambassador Bisa Williams (Ret), former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State
Command Chief Master Sergeant Calvin D. Williams, Sr., USAF (Ret)
Kayla M. Williams, former Assistant Secretary of Veterans Affairs
General Michael Williams, USMC (Ret)
First Sergeant Jeffery Willie, USAF (Ret)
Doug Wilson, former Assistant Secretary of Defense
General Johnnie E. Wilson, USA (Ret)
Sandra Fay Wilson, former Senior Executive, National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency
Major General Ken Wisian, Ph.D., USAF (Ret)
Kevin Wolf, former Assistant Secretary of Commerce
David Thomas Wolfson, Counselor (Ret), former Minister Counselor for Political Affairs, State Dept
Jon B. Wolfsthal, former Special Assistant to the President, National Security Council
Bill Woodward, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State
Rear Admiral Robert O. Wray, Jr., USN (Ret)
Craig R. Wuest, Ph.D., former Senior Director, Nevada National Security Site
Command Sergeant Major Andrew J. Wynn, Sr., USA (Ret)
Brigadier General Stephen N. Xenakis, M.D., USA (Ret)
Ambassador Kenneth Yalowitz (Ret)
Sergeant Major Barbara Yancy-Tooks, DM, USA (Ret)
Ambassador John M. Yates, Ph.D. (Ret)
Thomas M. Young, Counselor (Ret), former Management Counselor, State Dept
Ambassador Marie L. Yovanovitch (Ret), former Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary of State
Lieutenant General Richard P. Zahner, USA (Ret)
Patricia J. Zarodkiewicz, former Administrative Assistant to the Secretary of the Air Force
Michael W. Zehner, former Deputy General Counsel, Dept of the Air Force
Joseph C. Zengerle, Esq., former Assistant Secretary of the Air Force
Brigadier General Wayne Alvin Zimmet, USAF (Ret)
Brigadier General Peter B. Zwack, USA (Ret)
Ricardo Zúniga, former Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary of State
Ambassador John Todd Stewart (Ret)
Mary Stickney, former Senior Advisor, Federal Judiciary
Rear Admiral William S. Stokes, D.V.M., USPHS (Ret), former National Toxicology Program Center Director, National Institutes of Health
Sergeant Major Kurtis J. Strickland, USA (Ret)
Kenneth T. Stringer, Jr., Ph.D., former Division Chief, Central Intelligence Agency
Sergeant Major Peni Mene Sua, USA (Ret)
Ambassador Joseph Gerard Sullivan (Ret), former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State
Maura C. Sullivan, former Assistant Secretary of Veterans Affairs
Gordon Sumner, Ph.D., former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense
Brigadier General Loree Sutton, M.D., USA (Ret)
Major General Tony Taguba, USA (Ret)
Major General Michael R. Taheri, USAF (Ret)
Brigadier General Francis Xavier Taylor, USAF (Ret), former Ambassador, former Under Secretary of Homeland Security
Jarris Louis Taylor, Jr., Ed.D., former Deputy Assistant Secretary of the Air Force
Caroline Tess, former Special Assistant to the President, National Security Council
Ambassador Harry K. Thomas, Jr. (Ret), former Director General, State Dept
Mary G. Thompson, former Deputy Director of the Crime and Narcotics Center, Central Intelligence Agency
Brigadier General Phillip J. Thorpe, USA (Ret)
John Tien, former Deputy Secretary of Homeland Security
Helen Tierney, former Assistant Secretary of Veterans Affairs
Catherine A. Tobin, former Deputy Assistant to the President, National Security Council
Miles F. Toder, Ph.D., Counselor (Ret), former Senior Development Counselor, USAID
Carlton Paul Tolsdorf, Jr., former Senior Program Manager, ODNI
Amy Lou Tozzi, former Component Chief, Central Intelligence Agency
Major General Jonathan Treacy, USAF (Ret)
Gregory Frye Treverton, former Chair, National Intelligence Council
Lieutenant General William J. Troy, USA (Ret)
Major General Andrew Turley, USAF (Ret), former Deputy General Counsel, Dept of the Air Force
Vivian Leonard Turnbull, former Assistant Director of Intelligence, Defense Intelligence Agency
Christine Leigh Turner, former Director, National Security Council
M. Ann Tutwiler, former Deputy Director General, UN Food and Agriculture Organization
Brigadier General William Uhle, Jr., USAF (Ret)
Brigadier General Robin B. Umberg, USA (Ret)
Thomas Umberg, former Deputy Director, Office of National Drug Control Policy, Spouse of retired Senior Military Leader
Sergeant Major Denise A. Underwood, USA (Ret)
Rear Admiral William Craig Vanderwagen, M.D., USPHS (Ret), former Assistant Secretary for Preparedness, HHS
Ambassador Alexander R. Vershbow (Ret), former NATO Deputy Secretary General
Ambassador Shari Villarosa (Ret)
Tom Vilsack, former Governor of Iowa
Alexander S. Vindman, former Director, National Security Council
David E. Wade, former Chief of Staff, State Dept
Alex Wagner, former Chief of Staff to the Secretary of the Army
General Chuck Francis Wald, USAF (Ret)
Ambassador Marc Wall (Ret)
Brigadier General George H. Walls, Jr., USMC (Ret)
Ambassador James D. Walsh (Ret)
Brigadier General Steve Warnstadt, USA (Ret)
Adrienne Watson, former Senior Director, National Security Council
Jack H. Watson, Jr., former White House Chief of Staff
Rear Admiral James A. Watson, USCG (Ret), former Director, Dept of the Interior
Ambassador Earl Anthony Wayne (Ret), former Assistant Secretary of State
Andy Weber, former Assistant Secretary of Defense
William F. Wechsler, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense
Todd A. Weiler, former Assistant Secretary of Defense
Lieutenant General Jack Weinstein, USAF (Ret)
Gail Berry West, J.D., former Deputy Assistant Secretary of the Air Force
Rear Admiral Hugh D. Wetherald, USN (Ret)
Major General Deborah C. Wheeling, USA (Ret)
Major General Craig B. Whelden, USA (Ret), former Executive Director of Marine Corps Forces Pacific, Dept of the Navy
Ambassador Kevin Whitaker (Ret), former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State
Ambassador Barry B. White (Fmr)
Jon A. Wiant, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State
Sergeant Major Alexander Williams, USMC (Ret)
Ambassador Bisa Williams (Ret), former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State
Command Chief Master Sergeant Calvin D. Williams, Sr., USAF (Ret)
Kayla M. Williams, former Assistant Secretary of Veterans Affairs
General Michael Williams, USMC (Ret)
First Sergeant Jeffery Willie, USAF (Ret)
Doug Wilson, former Assistant Secretary of Defense
General Johnnie E. Wilson, USA (Ret)
Sandra Fay Wilson, former Senior Executive, National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency
Major General Ken Wisian, Ph.D., USAF (Ret)
Kevin Wolf, former Assistant Secretary of Commerce
David Thomas Wolfson, Counselor (Ret), former Minister Counselor for Political Affairs, State Dept
Jon B. Wolfsthal, former Special Assistant to the President, National Security Council
Bill Woodward, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State
Rear Admiral Robert O. Wray, Jr., USN (Ret)
Craig R. Wuest, Ph.D., former Senior Director, Nevada National Security Site
Command Sergeant Major Andrew J. Wynn, Sr., USA (Ret)
Brigadier General Stephen N. Xenakis, M.D., USA (Ret)
Ambassador Kenneth Yalowitz (Ret)
Sergeant Major Barbara Yancy-Tooks, DM, USA (Ret)
Ambassador John M. Yates, Ph.D. (Ret)
Thomas M. Young, Counselor (Ret), former Management Counselor, State Dept
Ambassador Marie L. Yovanovitch (Ret), former Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary of State
Lieutenant General Richard P. Zahner, USA (Ret)
Patricia J. Zarodkiewicz, former Administrative Assistant to the Secretary of the Air Force
Michael W. Zehner, former Deputy General Counsel, Dept of the Air Force
Joseph C. Zengerle, Esq., former Assistant Secretary of the Air Force
Brigadier General Wayne Alvin Zimmet, USAF (Ret)
Brigadier General Peter B. Zwack, USA (Ret)
Ricardo Zúniga, former Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary of State
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Siddharth Mohandas, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense
William G. P. Monahan, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State
Lieutenant General Thomas M. Montgomery, USA (Ret)
Vice Admiral Edward Moore, Jr., USN (Ret)
Garry E. Moore, Ph.D., former Defense Intelligence Senior Executive, Defense Intelligence Agency
Edward T. Morehouse, Jr., former Acting Assistant Secretary of Defense
Ambassador Luis G. Moreno (Ret)
Rear Admiral Kenneth P. Moritsugu, M.D., M.P.H., USPHS (Ret), former Acting Surgeon General, HHS
Ambassador Richard Morningstar (Fmr)
Frank E. Moss, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State
Vice Admiral Charles L. Munns, USN (Ret)
Margaret R. Munson, former Director of Defense Security Services, Dept of Defense
Michael F. Munson, former Deputy Director, Defense Intelligence Agency
Patrick J. Murphy, former Acting Secretary of the Army, former U.S. Representative (PA-8)
Carla Tighe Murray, Ph.D., former Division Director, Office of the Secretary of Defense
Robert J. Murray, former Under Secretary of the Navy
Vice Admiral Robert B. Murrett, USN (Ret)
Ambassador Allan Mustard (Ret)
Desaix Myers, Minister Counselor (Ret), former Mission Director, USAID
Ambassador Marianne M. Myles (Ret)
Senior Chief Petty Officer Malcolm Wrightson Nance, USN (Ret)
Janet Ann Napolitano, former Secretary of Homeland Security, former Governor of Arizona
Vipin Narang, former Acting Assistant Secretary of Defense
Major General Brian Neal, USAF (Ret)
Ambassador David D. Nelson (Ret), former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State
Ambassador Wanda L. Nesbitt (Ret)
Dava Newman, Ph.D., former Deputy Administrator, NASA
General Lloyd W. Newton, USAF (Ret)
Brian H. Nilsson, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State
Ambassador Crystal Nix-Hines (Fmr)
John M. Nolan, former Deputy Postmaster General, US Postal Service
Rear Admiral Audrey Hart Nora, M.D., USPHS (Ret)
Ambassador Walter North (Ret)
Jane N. Norton, former Division Chief, Central Intelligence Agency
Ambassador Victoria Nuland (Ret), former Acting Deputy Secretary of State
Major General Jim Nuttall, USA (Ret)
Rear Admiral Patrick O'Carroll, M.D., M.P.H., USPHS (Ret), former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Health
Sean O'Keefe, former Secretary of the Navy
Rear Admiral David Rogers Oliver, Jr., USN (Ret)
Major General Eric Thorne Olson, USA (Ret)
Ambassador Ted Osius (Ret)
Lieutenant General Charles P. Otstott, USA (Ret)
Brigadier General Mark Owen, USAF (Ret)
Mysia Karcz Pallas, former Director of Strategic Engagement, Defense Intelligence Agency
Brigadier General Peter John Palmer, USA (Ret)
Leon E. Panetta, former Secretary of Defense, former Director, Central Intelligence Agency
Ambassador Mark A. Pekala (Ret), former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State
Erin Pelton, former Chief of Staff, White House Domestic Policy Council
Buddie J. Penn, former Acting Secretary of the Navy
Ambassador June Carter Perry (Ret)
William James Perry, Ph.D., 19th Secretary of Defense
Vice Admiral D. Brian Peterman, USCG (Ret), former Special Assistant to the President, Homeland Security Council
Ambassador Mary Ann Peters (Ret), former Provost, US Naval War College
Major General Teresa M. Peterson, Ph.D., USAF (Ret)
Laurence M. Pfeiffer, former Chief of Staff, Central Intelligence Agency
Annie Pforzheimer, Minister Counselor (Ret), former Acting Deputy Assistant Secretary of State
Charisse Phillips, Minister Counselor (Ret), former Chargé d’Affaires e.p., State Dept
William Piekney, former Senior Operations Manager, Central Intelligence Agency
Ambassador Steven Pifer (Ret), former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State
Robert Burns Pirie, Jr., former Acting Secretary of the Navy
John Plumb, former Assistant Secretary of Defense
Major General James A. Pocock, USA (Ret)
Major General Gale S. Pollock, USA (Ret)
Rear Admiral Fernandez Ponds, USN (Ret)
Master Chief Petty Officer Bob Powell, USN (Ret)
Edward Angus Powell, Jr., former Acting Deputy Secretary of Veterans Affairs
Jon Powers, former Chief Sustainability Officer, White House
Major General Thomas L. Prather, Jr., USA (Ret)
Ambassador Jack Pritchard, Sr. (Fmr), former Senior Director, National Security Council
Jeffrey F. Pryce, former Counselor to the Under Secretary of Defense, Dept of Defense
Major General Marilyn Quagliotti, USA (Ret)
Susan J. Rabern, Ph.D., former Assistant Secretary of the Navy
Brigadier General Avrum Mark Rabin, J.D., USAF (Ret)
Major General William Michael Rajczak, USAF (Ret)
Ambassador Charles Ray (Ret), former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense
Rear Admiral Stephen C. Redd, M.D., USPHS (Ret), former Director of Center for Preparedness and Response, CDC
Major General Raymond “Fred” Rees, USA (Ret), former Deputy Assistant Secretary of the Army
Major General Stephen V. Reeves, USA (Ret)
Carlyn Reichel, former Special Assistant to the President, National Security Council
Susan G. Reichle, Career Minister (Ret), former Counselor to USAID
Donald Michael Remy, Esq., former Deputy Secretary of Veterans Affairs
Patricia J. Rentz, former Regional Open Source Director, Central Intelligence Agency
Brigadier General James F. Reynolds, M.D., USA (Ret)
Ben Rhodes, former Deputy National Security Advisor to the President
Ambassador Susan E. Rice (Fmr), former National Security Advisor to the President
Rear Admiral Markham K. Rich, USN (Ret)
Anne C. Richard, former Assistant Secretary of State
Sandra V. Richardson, former Deputy Under Secretary of Defense
Lieutenant General Charles H. Roadman, II, M.D., USAF (Ret)
Ambassador Thomas B. Robertson (Ret), former Dean of the Leadership and Management School, State Dept
Brigadier General J. Marty Robinson, J.D., USA (Ret)
Janice Williams Robinson, former Associate Deputy Director for Administration, Central Intelligence Agency
Major General Alan V. Rogers, USAF (Ret)
Brigadier General Ronald F. Rokosz, USA (Ret)
Lawrence Guzman Romo, former Director, US Selective Service System
Michael E. Roosevelt, former Group Chief, Central Intelligence Agency
Ambassador Jim Rosapepe (Fmr)
Major General Patricia Ann Rose, USAF (Ret)
Rear Admiral Mark L. Rosenberg, M.D., USPHS (Ret)
DJ Rosenthal, J.D., former Director for Counterterrorism, National Security Council
Charles O. Rossotti, former Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense
Ambassador Leslie V. Rowe (Ret)
Major General David Rubenstein, FACHE, USA (Ret)
Ambassador Eric S. Rubin (Ret), former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State
Joel Rubin, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State
Brigadier General Maritza Ryan, J.D., USA (Ret)
Donald George Salo, Jr., former Deputy Assistant Secretary of the Army
Lieutenant General Ricardo Sanchez, USA (Ret)
Richard M. Sanders, Minister Counselor (Ret), former Chargé d’Affaires, State Dept
Richard Sanders, former Defense Intelligence Senior Executive, Defense Intelligence Agency
Amy Sands, Ph.D., former Assistant Director, Arms Control and Disarmament Agency
Beth Sansbury, former Division Chief, Central Intelligence Agency
Ambassador Miriam Sapiro (Fmr), former Deputy US Trade Representative
Brigadier General Thomas J. Scanlan, Jr., USAF (Ret)
James A. Schear, Ph.D., former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense
Brigadier General Donald Frederick Schenk, USA (Ret)
Tracy Schmaler, former Director of Office of Public Affairs, Dept of Justice, Spouse of retired Senior Military Leader
Witney Schneidman, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State
Ambassador James Schumaker (Ret)
Daniel C. Schwartz, former General Counsel, National Security Agency
Henry James Schweiter, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense
Rear Admiral John C. Scorby, Jr., USN (Ret)
John F. Scott, Minister Counselor (Ret), former Vice Chairman of National HUMINT Requirements Tasking Center, State Dept
Ambassador Kyle Scott (Ret)
Susan Smith Sedgewick, former Group Chief, Central Intelligence Agency
Ambassador Tod Sedgwick (Fmr)
Ivan Selin, former Chairman, Nuclear Regulatory Commission
General Paul J. Selva, USAF (Ret), former Vice Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
Ambassador Michael James Senko (Ret)
Rear Admiral Joe Sestak, USN (Ret), former U.S. Representative (PA-7)
Sharon B. Seymour, former Associate Director of Personnel Plans & Programs, Dept of the Air Force
Khushali Shah, former Managing Director, State Dept
Rear Admiral James J. Shannon, USN (Ret)
Rear Admiral William E. Shannon, USN (Ret)
Andrew J. Shapiro, former Assistant Secretary of State
Stephen G. Sharro, former Emergency Management Institute Superintendent, Dept of Homeland Security
Christopher Shays, former U.S. Representative (CT-4)
Vice Admiral Herm Shelanski, USN (Ret)
Rear Admiral Dwight David Shepherd, USN (Ret)
Ambassador Robert A. Sherman (Fmr)
Ambassador Wendy R. Sherman (Fmr), former Deputy Secretary of State
Russell Shilling, Ph.D., former Executive Director, Dept of Education
Helen P. Shimek, former National Clandestine Service Chief of Intelligence, Central Intelligence Agency
Ambassador David H. Shinn (Ret)
Brigadier General Jack M. Shuttleworth, Ph.D., USAF (Ret)
Rhea D. Siers, former Deputy Assistant Director, National Security Agency
Mark Silverman, Minister Counselor (Ret), former Senior Deputy Assistant Administrator, USAID
Keith E. Simmons, Minister Counselor (Ret), former Mission Director, USAID
Vikram J. Singh, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense
John R. Sipher, former Chief of Station, Central Intelligence Agency
Ambassador Emil M. Skodon (Ret)
Amanda Sloat, former Special Assistant to the President, National Security Council
Brigadier General David L. Smalley, Ph.D., USA (Ret)
Eileen Roach Smith, former Group Chief, Central Intelligence Agency
Gayle Smith, former Administrator, USAID
Brigadier General Paul Gregory Smith, USA (Ret)
Major General Robert W. Smith, III, USA (Ret)
Rear Admiral Steven Grayson Smith, USN (Ret), former Director of Disaster Planning & Risk Management, Small Business Administration
Major General Tammy Smith, USA (Ret)
James William Smolka, former Director for Flight Operations at Armstrong FRC, NASA
Ambassador Nancy Soderberg (Fmr), former Deputy National Security Advisor to the President
Rear Admiral Steven L. Solomon, M.D., USPHS (Ret)
Ambassador Alan Solomont (Fmr), former Board Chair, Corporation for National and Community Service
Stan Soloway, former Deputy Under Secretary of Defense
Robert R. Soule, former Director of Program Analysis and Evaluation, Dept of Defense
Ivo Spalatin, former Senior Policy Advisor, Arms Control and Disarmament Agency
Matthew Spence, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense
Jayson L. Spiegel, J.D., former Deputy Assistant Secretary, Dept of the Army
Major General Clifford L. Stanley, Ed.D., USMC (Ret), former Under Secretary of Defense
Don Stanton, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense
Major General Howard Douglas Stendahl, D.D., USAF (Ret)
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Thomas Nelson Harvey, former Special Assistant to the President, National Security Council
Brigadier General Tom Harvey, USA (Ret)
Ambassador Patricia M. Haslach (Ret), former Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary of State
Andrea M. Hattler Bramson, former Deputy Office Director, Central Intelligence Agency
General Michael V. Hayden, USAF (Ret), former Director, Central Intelligence Agency
Major General Ralph Lewis Haynes, M.D., MBA, USA (Ret)
General Richard Davis Hearney, USMC (Ret)
Ambassador John A. Heffern (Ret), former Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary of State
Ambassador Samuel D. Heins (Fmr)
Rear Admiral Clare Helminiak, M.D., M.P.H., USPHS (Ret), former Deputy Director for Medical Surge, HHS
Eric E. Herbst, former Senior Executive, National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency
Camille Hersh, former Chief of Facilities Support, Central Intelligence Agency
Bonnie Hershberg, former Director of Training, Central Intelligence Agency
Lieutenant General Mark Hertling, USA (Ret)
Ambassador Bruce Alan Heyman (Fmr)
Eric L. Hirschhorn, former Under Secretary of Commerce
John R. Hoag, former Principal Director for Policy, US Mission to NATO
Ambassador Richard E. Hoagland (Ret), former Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary of State
Lieutenant General Ben Hodges, USA (Ret)
Christopher J. Hoh, former Senior Advisor, State Dept
Ambassador J. Anthony Holmes (Ret), former Deputy Commander of US Africa Command, Dept of Defense
Victoria K. Holt, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State
Richard David Hooker, Jr., former Senior Director, National Security Council
Charles L. Hopkins, III, former Deputy Under Secretary of Energy
Sally K. Horn, former Director, Office of the Secretary of Defense
Michael Horowitz, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense
Samuel M. Hoskinson, former Vice Chairman, National Intelligence Council
Sharon A. Houy, former Chief of Staff, Defense Intelligence Agency
Ambassador Michael Stephen Hoza (Ret)
Brigadier General Kenneth Hubbard, USA (Ret)
Ambassador Vicki J. Huddleston (Ret), former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense
Rear Admiral James M. Hughes, M.D., USPHS (Ret)
Ambassador Marie Therese Huhtala (Ret)
Ambassador Thomas N. Hull, III (Ret)
Martin Hurwitz, former Director of General Defense Intelligence Program Staff, Dept of Defense
Steven Marc Huybrechts, Ph.D., former Acting Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense
Ambassador Karl F. Inderfurth (Fmr), former Assistant Secretary of State
Brigadier General Chris Inglis, USAF (Ret), former U.S. National Cyber Director, White House
Admiral Bobby R. Inman, USN (Ret)
Ambassador Robert P. Jackson (Ret), former Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary of State
Morris E. Jacobs, Counselor (Ret), former Senior Advisor, State Dept
Ambassador Susan S. Jacobs (Ret)
Deborah Lee James, former Secretary of the Air Force
Major General Randy Jayne, USAF (Ret), former Associate Director, Office of Management & Budget
Raymond M. Jefferson, former Assistant Secretary of Labor
Brigadier General Axel A. Johnson, III, Ph.D., USA (Ret)
Command Chief Master Sergeant Jack Johnson, Jr., USAF (Ret)
Brigadier General James Darwin Johnson, USA (Ret)
Major General James C. Johnson, USAF (Ret)
Jeh Johnson, former Secretary of Homeland Security
Master Chief Petty Officer Valerie Ann Johnston, USN (Ret)
Brigadier General Jerome Jones, USAF (Ret)
Lieutenant General Jan-Marc Jouas, USAF (Ret)
Colin Kahl, former Under Secretary of Defense
Shanthi Kalathil, former Deputy Assistant to the President, National Security Council
Rear Admiral Douglas B. Kamerow, M.D., USPHS (Ret)
Mara Karlin, former Assistant Secretary of Defense
Jeanne Karstens, former Director of Operations, Dept of Defense
Senior Chief Petty Officer Denis C. Kaufman, USN (Ret)
Ambassador Richard D. Kauzlarich (Ret), former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State
Elinor Houghton Kelly, former Chief of the Directorate of Operations Targeting Board, Central Intelligence Agency
Laurie S. Kelly, former Defense Intelligence Senior Executive, Defense Intelligence Agency
Lieutenant General Richard L. Kelly, USMC (Ret)
Robert William Kelly, J.D., former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense
Fleet Master Chief Raymond D. Kemp, Sr., USN (Ret)
Brigadier General Jeffrey B. Kendall, USAF (Ret)
Ambassador Laura E. Kennedy (Ret), former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State
Larry D. Kerr, Ph.D., former Acting Senior Director, National Security Council
Bob Kerrey, former U.S. Senator (D-NE)
Lieutenant General Donald L. Kerrick, USA (Ret), former Deputy National Security Advisor to the President
John Kerry, 68th Secretary of State, former Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee (D-MA)
Scott F. Kilner, Minister Counselor (Ret), former Consul General, State Dept
Brigadier General John Thomas King, Jr., USA (Ret)
Ambassador Michael David Kirby (Ret), former Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary of State
Robert Kirkner, former Senior Executive, National Institute of Standards and Technology
Rear Admiral William Robert Kiser, M.D., USN (Ret)
Lieutenant General Frank G. Klotz, USAF (Ret), former Under Secretary of Energy
Christine Lizbeth Kluh, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Veterans Affairs
Susan J. Koch, Ph.D., former Assistant Director, Arms Control and Disarmament Agency
Brigadier General Thomas A. Kolditz, Ph.D., USA (Ret)
Master Chief Petty Officer Michael James Korman, USN (Ret)
Ambassador Philip S. Kosnett (Ret), former Acting Deputy Assistant Secretary of State
Ambassador Eleni Tsakopoulos Kounalakis (Fmr), Lieutenant Governor, State of California
William K. Krist, former Assistant US Trade Representative
Prem Kumar, former Senior Director, National Security Council
Major General Dennis John Laich, USA (Ret)
Anthony Lake, former National Security Advisor to the President
Brett B. Lambert, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense
Ambassador David Lambertson (Ret), former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State
Tom Lamont, former Assistant Secretary of the Army
Brigadier General George A. Landis, USA (Ret)
Rear Admiral William Lassek, M.D., USPHS (Ret), former Regional Health Administrator, HHS
Louis Lauter, former Acting Assistant Secretary of Defense
Jeff Le, former Deputy Cabinet Secretary, State of California
Vice Admiral Michael A. LeFever, USN (Ret), former Director of Strategic Operational Planning, National Counterterrorism Center
Major General Mike Lehnert, USMC (Ret)
Rear Admiral Richard Allen Lemen, Ph.D., USPHS (Ret)
Ambassador Michael C. Lemmon (Ret), former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State
Major General Alfonso E. Lenhardt, USA (Ret), former Ambassador, former Acting Administrator, USAID
Bel Leong-Hong, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense
Major General Steven J. Lepper, USAF (Ret)
Rear Admiral Lewis S. Libby, USN (Ret)
Ambassador Dawn M. Liberi (Ret)
Lieutenant General Frank Libutti, USMC (Ret), former Under Secretary of Homeland Security
Rear Admiral David M. Lichtman, M.D., USN (Ret)
Rear Admiral Samuel Lin, M.D., Ph.D., USPHS (Ret), former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Health
Admiral Samuel J. Locklear, USN (Ret), former Commander U.S. Pacific Command
Ambassador Robert Geers Loftis (Ret), former Acting Coordinator for Reconstruction and Stabilization, State Dept
Ambassador Carmen Lomellin (Fmr)
Letitia A. Long, former Director, National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency
Robert Love, former Chief of Staff to the Under Secretary of the Navy
Keri M. Lowry, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State
Admiral James Loy, USCG (Ret), former Commandant of the Coast Guard
Ambassador Lewis Lukens (Ret), former Deputy Executive Secretary, State Dept
Rear Admiral Boris D. Lushniak, M.D., M.P.H., USPHS (Ret), former Acting Surgeon General, HHS
General Lester L. Lyles, USAF (Ret)
Eric Lynn, former Senior Advisor to the Secretary of Defense
Ambassador David Laurence Lyon (Ret)
Ambassador Ray Mabus (Fmr), former Secretary of the Navy, former Governor of Mississippi
Susan T. MacKay, former Office Director, Central Intelligence Agency
Rear Admiral Ron J. MacLaren, USN (Ret)
Rear Admiral Archer Macy, USN (Ret)
Roberta Mahoney, Career Minister (Ret), former Acting Assistant Administrator, USAID
Ambassador Deborah R. Malac (Ret)
Tom Malinowski, former Assistant Secretary of State, former U.S. Representative (NJ-7)
Ambassador Eileen A. Malloy (Ret), former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State
Ambassador Robert A. Mandell (Fmr)
Rear Admiral David Manero, USN (Ret)
Ambassador Steven R. Mann (Ret)
Major General John J. Marcello, USA (Ret)
Robert T. Marlow, former Principal Special Assistant to the Secretary of the Air Force
Ambassador Niels Marquardt (Ret)
Brigadier General Carlos E. Martínez, USAF (Ret)
Keith J. Masback, former Source Operations Director, National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency
Brigadier General Gregory D. Mason, Sr., USA (Ret)
Rear Admiral Michael G. Mathis, USN (Ret)
Rear Admiral Gary Mayes, USN (Ret)
Barbara Estock Mays, former Special Assistant, Defense Intelligence Agency
John Robert McBrien, former Associate Director of OFAC, Dept of the Treasury
Ambassador Marshall Fletcher McCallie (Ret)
Major General William N. McCasland, Ph.D., USAF (Ret)
Command Sergeant Major Mac T. McClain, USA (Ret)
Mike McClary, former Acting Deputy Assistant Secretary of Energy
Carl McCullough, former Executive Director for the DoD Policy Board on Federal Aviation
Robert E. McDaniel, Esq., former Director Legal Affairs, OSCE
Rear Admiral William J. McDaniel, M.D., USN (Ret)
John R. McDonough, former Chief U.S. Probation Officer, Federal Courts
Ambassador Nancy McEldowney (Ret), former National Security Advisor to the Vice President
Ambassador Michael McFaul (Fmr), former Special Assistant to the President, National Security Council
Vice Admiral Dennis V. McGinn, USN (Ret), former Assistant Secretary of the Navy
Brigadier General David L. McGinnis, USA (Ret), former Assistant Secretary of Defense
Ambassador Kevin J. McGuire (Ret)
James F. McIlmail, former Executive Director, Defense Intelligence Agency
Brian P. McKeon, former Deputy Secretary of State for Management and Resources
Ambassador P. Michael McKinley (Ret)
Ambassador Elizabeth Davenport McKune (Ret), former Deputy Executive Secretary, State Dept
John E. McLaughlin, former Acting Director, Central Intelligence Agency
Rear Admiral Jim McManamon, USN (Ret)
Senior Master Sergeant Pat McNamara, USAF (Ret)
Kathleen McQuaid, former Deputy Director of Logistics, Central Intelligence Agency
Richard A. McSeveney, former Program Director, Dept of the Army
Evan Medeiros, former Special Assistant to the President, National Security Council
Brigadier General Joseph V. Medina, USMC (Ret)
Ambassador James D. Melville, Jr. (Ret)
Rear Admiral Stephen P. Metruck, USCG (Ret)
Joel Meyer, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Homeland Security
Ambassador Richard Miles (Ret)
Andrew Miller, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State
Rear Admiral Jay R. Miller, USN (Ret)
Ambassador Thomas J. Miller (Ret)
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Janine Davidson, former Under Secretary of the Navy
Steven Davila, former Office Director, National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency
Major General Andrew B. Davis, USMC (Ret)
Major General Gordon Bryant Davis, Jr., USA (Ret), former NATO Deputy Assistant Secretary General
Sergeant Major Kim Eugene Davis, USMC (Ret)
Rear Admiral Phil Davis, USN (Ret)
Ambassador Ruth A. Davis (Ret), former Director General of the US Foreign Service, State Dept
Lieutenant General Michael S. Davison, Jr., USA (Ret)
David G. Delaney, former Acting Associate General Counsel, Dept of Homeland Security
Ambassador Jeffrey DeLaurentis (Ret), former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State
Ambassador Greg Delawie (Ret), former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State
Ambassador Christopher W. Dell (Ret)
Major General Genaro James Dellarocco, USA (Ret)
Abraham Denmark, former Senior Advisor to the Secretary of Defense
Brian Detter, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of the Navy
John Deutch, former Deputy Secretary of Defense, former Director, Central Intelligence Agency
Robert S. Deutsch, Minister Counselor (Ret), former Senior Advisor, State Dept
Judd Devermont, former Senior Director, National Security Council
Elizabeth DiGregorio, former Director of the FEMA National Citizen Corps Office, Dept of Homeland Security
Brigadier General Charles O. Dillard, M.D., USA (Ret)
Robert Dixon, Jr., former Defense Intelligence Senior Executive, Defense Intelligence Agency
Major General John Doesburg, USA (Ret)
Ambassador Kathleen Ann Doherty (Ret), former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State
Brigadier General Barbara Doornink, USA (Ret)
Byron L. Dorgan, former U.S. Senator (D-ND)
Rush Doshi, former Deputy Senior Director, National Security Council
John M. Doyon, former Senior Executive, National Security Agency
Joy Drucker, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State
Melvin G. Dubee, former Deputy Staff Director, Senate Select Committee on Intelligence
Barbara A. Duckworth, former Chief of Staff, Defense Intelligence Agency
Martha E. Duncan, former Chief of HUMINT Enterprise Management, Dept of Defense
Vice Admiral Joseph Wendell Dyer, USN (Ret)
Ambassador William C. Eacho (Fmr)
Fran Early, former Office Director, Dept of Defense
Major General Paul Dale Eaton, USA (Ret)
Ambassador William Alan Eaton (Ret), former Assistant Secretary of State
R.P. Eddy, former Director, National Security Council
Lieutenant General Albert Edmonds, USAF (Ret)
Brigadier General Thomas N. Edmonds, J.D., USAF (Ret)
Brigadier General Lewie Edwards, USAF (Ret)
Ambassador Stuart Eizenstat (Fmr), former Deputy Secretary of the Treasury
Carolyn McGiffert Ekedahl, former Deputy Assistant Inspector General, Central Intelligence Agency
General Larry R. Ellis, USA (Ret)
Dawn Ellison, former Deputy Inspector General, Central Intelligence Agency
Ambassador Gregory W. Engle (Ret)
Major General William Enyart, USA (Ret), former U.S. Representative (IL-12)
Andrew Stephen Earl Erickson, Counselor (Ret), former Consul General, State Dept
Sergeant Major of the Marine Corps John L. Estrada, USMC (Ret), former Ambassador
Rear Admiral Stephen C. Evans, USN (Ret)
Roland P. Fabia, former Defense Intelligence Senior Executive, Defense Intelligence Agency
Ambassador Kenneth Fairfax (Ret)
Richard Falkenrath, former Deputy Homeland Security Advisor, National Security Council
Julie Farnam, former Assistant Director of Intelligence, US Capitol Police
Major General Barbara Faulkenberry, USAF (Ret)
Ambassador John Feeley (Ret), former Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary of State
Brigadier General Robert John Felderman, USA (Ret)
Ambassador Daniel Feldman (Ret), former Special Representative for Afghanistan and Pakistan
First Sergeant Joanne Marie Ferguson, USA (Ret)
Ilsa E. Ferro, former Chief of Equal Opportunity Office, Defense Intelligence Agency
Michèle A. Flournoy, former Under Secretary of Defense
Jason W. Forrester, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense
Major General Eugene Fox, USA (Ret), former Deputy Director of the Strategic Defense Initiative, Dept of Defense
John G. Fox, Counselor (Ret), former Office Director, State Dept
Brigadier General Martin E.B. France, Ph.D., USAF (Ret)
Paul Frandano, former Senior Executive, Central Intelligence Agency
Vice Admiral Michael T. Franken, USN (Ret)
Patricia A. Fraser, former Senior Executive, National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency
Rear Admiral Michael S. Frick, USN (Ret)
Mike Fuchs, former Deputy Chief of Staff to the Vice President
Glen S. Fukushima, former Deputy Assistant US Trade Representative
Brenda Sue Fulton, former Assistant Secretary of Veterans Affairs
Ambassador Laurie S. Fulton (Fmr)
Ambassador Julie Furuta-Toy (Ret)
Ambassador Peter W. Galbraith (Fmr), former Assistant Secretary General, United Nations
Rear Admiral James M. Galloway, M.D., USPHS (Ret), former Regional Health Administrator, HHS
Brigadier General W. Bryan Gamble, M.D., USA (Ret)
Lenora Peters Gant, Ph.D., former Assistant Deputy DNI for Human Capital, Spouse of retired Senior Military Leader
Larry A. Garber, former Mission Director, USAID
Janice B. Gardner, former Assistant Secretary of the Treasury
Bishop M. Garrison, Jr., former Senior Advisor to the Secretary of Defense
Lieutenant General Walter Edward Gaskin, USMC (Ret)
Master Gunnery Sergeant Joe Geeter, III, USMC (Ret)
Brigadier General Jonathan George, USAF (Ret)
Ambassador Robert S. Gilchrist (Ret), former Senior Bureau Official, State Dept
Major General P. David Gillett, Jr., USAF (Ret)
Rear Admiral Bruce L. Gillingham, M.D., USN (Ret)
Richard S. Gilpin, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of the Navy
Brigadier General Robert A. Glacel, USA (Ret)
Ambassador Anthony F. Godfrey (Ret)
Melvin Allan Goodman, Ph.D., former Division Chief, Central Intelligence Agency
Sherri Goodman, former Deputy Under Secretary of Defense
Brigadier General Leon Goodson, USAF (Ret)
Rose Gottemoeller, former Under Secretary of State
Michael J. Gottlieb, former Special Assistant to the President, White House
W. Scott Gould, former Deputy Secretary of Veterans Affairs
Ambassador Gary A. Grappo (Ret)
Ambassador Gordon Gray (Ret), former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State
Command Sergeant Major Althea Green, Ph.D., USA (Ret)
Vice Admiral Kevin Patrick Green, USN (Ret)
Jon Greenwald, Minister Counselor (Ret), former Office Director, State Dept
Chief Master Sergeant Billy Gregory, Jr., USAF (Ret)
William R. Grundmann, former Deputy Director for Intelligence Production, Defense Intelligence Agency
Anne C. Gruner, former Deputy Center Director, Central Intelligence Agency
Jay K. Gruner, former Chief of Station, Central Intelligence Agency
Scott B. Gudes, former Staff Director, US Senate Budget Committee
Ambassador Michael Guest (Ret)
Vice Admiral Lee Gunn, USN (Ret)
Rear Admiral Don Guter, USN (Ret)
Ambassador Howard Gutman (Fmr)
Dean J. Haas, Minister Counselor (Ret), former Consul General, State Dept
Major General Richard S. Haddad, USAF (Ret)
Rear Admiral Marlene E. Haffner, M.D., USPHS (Ret), former Director of the Office of Orphan Products Development, FDA
Chuck Hagel, former Secretary of Defense, former U.S. Senator (R-NE)
Ambassador Anne Hall (Ret)
Katherine J. Hall, former Office Director, Central Intelligence Agency
Major General Irv Halter, USAF (Ret)
Rear Admiral Janice M. Hamby, DM, USN (Ret), former Chancellor of College of Information and Cyberspace, National Defense University
Lieutenant General Michael A. Hamel, USAF (Ret)
Daniel S. Hamilton, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State
William Hammink, Career Minister (Ret), former Assistant to the Administrator, USAID
Ambassador S. Fitzgerald Haney (Fmr)
Mary B. Hannagan, former Director of Staffing and Career Development, ODNI
R. David Harden, Minister Counselor (Ret), former Assistant Administrator, USAID
Rear Admiral Bryan D. Hardin, Sr., Ph.D., USPHS (Ret), former Deputy Director, NIOSH
Anne M. Harrington, former Deputy Administrator, Dept of Energy
Ambassador Anthony Harrington (Fmr), former Chair, President's Intelligence Oversight Board
Command Master Chief Petty Officer Octavia D. Harris, M.S., USN (Ret)
Ambassador Roger Gran Harrison, Ph.D. (Ret), former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State
Gary Hart, former U.S. Senator (D-CO)
Ambassador Sam Hart (Ret)
Ambassador Douglas A. Hartwick (Ret), former Assistant US Trade Representative
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So, when they ask you who is in the deep state; here is a subset of the suspect list:
President of National Security Leaders for America:
Rear Admiral Michael E. Smith, USN (Ret)
Steering Committee of National Security Leaders for America:
Ambassador Charles C. Adams, Jr. (Fmr)
Ambassador Jeff Bleich (Fmr)
Ambassador Judith Beth Cefkin (Ret)
Major General Peter S. Cooke, USA (Ret)
Thomas M. Countryman, Minister Counselor (Ret), former Acting Under Secretary of State
Ambassador Cindy L. Courville, Ph.D. (Fmr), former Special Assistant to the President, National Security Council
Rear Admiral Scott Deitchman, M.D., M.P.H., USPHS (Ret)
Brigadier General John Wade Douglass, USAF (Ret), former Assistant Secretary of the Navy
Linda Jackson, Spouse of retired Senior Military Leader
Rear Admiral Katharine L. Laughton, USN (Ret)
Lieutenant General Charles D. Luckey, USA (Ret)
Major General Randy Manner, USA (Ret)
Brigadier General Mark A. Montjar, USA (Ret)
F. Whitten Peters, former Secretary of the Air Force
Ambassador Robert Annan Riley, III (Ret)
John C. Rogers, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense
Rear Admiral Todd Jay Squire, USN (Ret)
Jack Thomas Tomarchio, former Principal Deputy Under Secretary of Homeland Security
Brigadier General Daniel P. Woodward, USAF (Ret)
Senior Military Spouse Advisors:
Theresa T. Buchanan, J.D.
Becky R. France, MEd,
Dale Allen Hamby
Mary Jo Myers
Brook Rich
Rebekah Sanderlin
Ellen Waterfield Smith
Anne M. Squire
Members of National Security Leaders for America:
Admiral Steve Abbot, USN (Ret)
Senior Master Sergeant Thomas S. Adair, USAF (Ret)
Brigadier General Clara L. Adams-Ender, Ph.D. (Hon), USA (Ret)
Terry Adirim, M.D., former Acting Assistant Secretary of Defense
Major General James A. Adkins, USA (Ret)
Karen Aguilar, Minister Counselor (Ret), former Political Advisor to NATO SACT, State Dept
Parney C. Albright, Ph.D., former Assistant Secretary of Homeland Security
John W. Aldis, M.D., M.P.H., Minister Counselor (Ret), former Regional Medical Officer, State Dept
Scott Allen, former US Executive Director, European Bank for Reconstruction and Development
Eric Robert Allison, former Deputy Assistant Director, Central Intelligence Agency
Chuck Alsup, former Assistant Deputy Director, ODNI
Michael Amato, former Communications Director, Dept of Agriculture
Ambassador Brooke D. Anderson (Fmr), former Chief of Staff, National Security Council
Brigadier General Steven M. Anderson, USA (Ret)
Wendy R. Anderson, former Chief of Staff to the Deputy Secretary of Defense
Rear Admiral Thomas L. Andrews, III, USN (Ret)
Command Sergeant Major Victor Sean Angry, USA (Ret)
Brigadier General Ricardo Aponte, USAF (Ret)
Major General James E. Archer, USA (Ret)
Vice Admiral Donald C. Arthur, M.D., J.D., USN (Ret)
Ambassador Alexander Arvizu (Ret), former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State
Kishla A. Askins, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Veterans Affairs
Ambassador Mark L. Asquino (Ret)
Rear Admiral Tom Atkin, USCG (Ret), former Acting Assistant Secretary of Defense
Caroline Atkinson, former Deputy National Security Advisor to the President
Ambassador Daniel Baer (Fmr), former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State
Vicky A. Bailey, former Assistant Secretary of Energy
Brian Baird, Ph.D., former U.S. Representative (WA-3)
Rear Admiral Edward L. Baker, Jr., M.D., USPHS (Ret)
Rear Admiral Michael S. Baker, M.D., USN (Ret)
Command Sergeant Major Michael M. Balch, USA (Ret)
Brigadier General Dale R. Barber, USA (Ret)
Major General Donna Barbisch, USA (Ret)
Ambassador Erica Barks-Ruggles (Ret), former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State
Rear Admiral James Arden Barnett, Jr., USN (Ret), former Bureau Chief, Federal Communications Commission
Walter L. Barrows, Ph.D., former National Intelligence Officer, National Intelligence Council
Major General Arthur M. Bartell, USA (Ret)
Ambassador Frederick Barton (Fmr), former Assistant Secretary of State
Jeremy Bash, former Chief of Staff, Dept of Defense
Kristen F. Bauer, Minister Counselor (Ret), former Deputy Chief of Mission, State Dept
Rear Admiral William D. Baumgartner, USCG (Ret)
Carolyn Howland Becraft, former Assistant Secretary of the Navy
Peter Michael Becraft, former INS Deputy Commissioner, Dept of Justice
Ambassador Robert M. Beecroft (Ret)
John A. Beed, Minister Counselor (Ret), former Mission Director, USAID
Rear Admiral Charles J. Beers, Jr., USN (Ret)
Rand Beers, former Acting Secretary of Homeland Security
Emmett Beliveau, former Director, White House Military Office
Dave Belote, former Executive Director, Dept of Defense
Virginia L. Bennett, Minister Counselor (Ret), former Acting Assistant Secretary of State
Dan Berman, Minister Counselor (Ret), Dept of Agriculture
Catherine Bertini, former Under Secretary General, United Nations
Ambassador Bruce G. Berton (Ret)
Ambassador Don Beyer (Fmr), U.S. Representative (VA-8)
Jeffrey P. Bialos, former Deputy Under Secretary of Defense
Ambassador J.D. Bindenagel (Ret)
Hans Binnendijk, Ph.D., former Senior Director, National Security Council
Ambassador Jack R. Binns (Ret)
Ambassador Robert D. Blackwill (Ret), former Deputy Assistant to the President, National Security Council
Charles Blanchard, former General Counsel, Dept of the Air Force
Lieutenant General Ronald R. Blanck, DO, USA (Ret)
Ambassador John W. Blaney (Ret)
Beryl Blecher, Minister Counselor (Ret), former Senior Commercial Officer, Dept of Commerce
Charles H. Blum, former Assistant US Trade Representative
Chidi Blyden, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense
Ambassador Barbara Bodine (Ret), former Acting Coordinator for Counterterrorism, State Dept
Major General Charles F. Bolden, Jr., USMC (Ret), former Administrator, NASA
Ambassador Michele Thoren Bond (Ret), former Assistant Secretary of State
Ambassador Amy L. Bondurant (Fmr)
Jason Bordoff, former Special Assistant to the President, National Security Council
Ambassador Richard Boucher (Ret), former Assistant Secretary of State
Ambassador Charles Richard Bowers (Ret)
Vice Admiral William C. Bowes, USN (Ret), former Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary of the Navy
Paul L. Boyd, Counselor (Ret), former Consul General, State Dept
Spencer Boyer, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense
Lieutenant General John A. Bradley, USAF (Ret)
William Lewis Brant, II, former Foreign Agricultural Service Deputy Assistant Administrator
Ambassador Aurelia E. Brazeal (Ret), former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State
John Brennan, former Director, Central Intelligence Agency
Joel F. Brenner, Ph.D., J.D., former Inspector General, National Security Agency
Ambassador James Walter Brewster, Jr. (Fmr)
Ambassador Kenneth C. Brill (Ret)
Ambassador Timothy M. Broas (Fmr)
Rosa Brooks, former Counselor to the Under Secretary of Defense
Rear Admiral Claire V. Broome, M.D., USPHS (Ret), former Deputy Director, CDC
David G. Brown, Counselor (Ret), former Office Director, State Dept
Dolores Marie Brown, Minister Counselor (Ret), former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State
Rear Admiral Michael J. Browne, USN (Ret)
Lee Anthony Brudvig, Minister Counselor (Ret), former Deputy Chief of Mission, State Dept
Mark Brunner, former Senior Advisor to U.S. Senator
Ambassador George Bruno, Esq. (Fmr), former Diplomatic Advisor, Dept of the Army
Melissa A. Bryant, former Senior Advisor to the Secretary of Veterans Affairs
Ambassador Susan Flood Burk (Fmr), former Acting Assistant Secretary of State
Brigadier General Edward G. Burley, USA (Ret)
Sergeant Major Will Burton, USMC (Ret)
Rear Admiral John D. Butler, USN (Ret)
Michael A. Butler, Ph.D., Minister Counselor (Ret), former Deputy Chief of Mission, State Dept
Rear Admiral Fred Byus, Sr., USN (Ret)
Louis E. Caldera, former Secretary of the Army
Lieutenant General Donald M. Campbell, Jr., USA (Ret)
John Ross Campbell, former Deputy Under Secretary of Defense
Brigadier General Kristine Koetting Campbell, Ph.D., USA (Ret)
Michael Camuñez, former Assistant Secretary of Commerce
Brigadier General George J. Cannelos, USAF (Ret), former Federal Co-Chair, Denali Commission (Alaska)
Sergeant Major Rosemarie Tirado Caraballo, USA (Ret)
Robert Cardillo, former Director, National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency
Brigadier General David P. Carey, USA (Ret)
Vice Admiral Richard H. Carmona, M.D., USPHS (Ret), former Surgeon General, HHS
James Carouso, Minister Counselor (Ret), former Chargé d’Affaires, State Dept
Patrick G. Carrick, Ph.D., former Agency Director, Dept of Homeland Security
James Carson, former Deputy Staff Chief, Central Intelligence Agency
Ambassador Phillip Carter, III (Ret), former Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary of State
Asha Castleberry-Hernandez, former Senior Advisor, State Dept
Major General William D. Catto, USMC (Ret)
David Stuart Caulfield, former Chief of Defense Combating Terrorism Center, Defense Intelligence Agency
Rear Admiral Bill Center, USN (Ret)
Glenn Chafetz, former Chief of Station, Central Intelligence Agency
Brigadier General Stephen A. Cheney, USMC (Ret)
Brigadier General Douglas Cherry, USA (Ret)
General Peter W. Chiarelli, USA (Ret)
Phillip T. Chicola, Minister Counselor (Ret), former Chargé d’Affaires, State Dept
Steven Chu, former Secretary of Energy
Lieutenant General Jim Clapper, USAF (Ret), former Director of National Intelligence
General Wesley Clark, USA (Ret)
Richard A. Clarke, former Special Advisor to the President, National Security Council
Hillary Rodham Clinton, former Secretary of State, former U.S. Senator (D-NY)
Rear Admiral Bill W. Cobb, Jr., USN (Ret)
Rear Admiral Mitchell L. Cohen, M.D., USPHS (Ret)
William Cohen, former Secretary of Defense, former U.S. Senator (R-ME)
Brent Colburn, former Assistant Secretary of Homeland Security
Joseph John Collins, Ph.D., former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense
Erin C. Conaton, former Under Secretary of Defense
John Conger, former Principal Deputy Under Secretary of Defense
Ambassador Frederick B. Cook (Ret)
Thomas E. Cooney, Minister Counselor (Ret), former Chargé d’Affaires, State Dept
Rear Admiral Jose F. Cordero, M.D., USPHS (Ret), former Assistant Surgeon General, HHS
Stephen K. Craven, Counselor (Ret), former Commercial Counselor, Dept of Commerce
Daniel T. Crocker, Counselor (Ret), former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Commerce
Senior Chief Petty Officer Marilee Cunningham, USN (Ret)
Ambassador Carolyn Curiel (Fmr), former Special Assistant to the President, White House
Major General Lewis E. Curtis, III, USAF (Ret)
Lanie P. D'Alessandro, former Office Director, Central Intelligence Agency
William Daitch, former Assistant Director, Dept of Homeland Security
John Howard Dalton, former Secretary of the Navy
Kathleen Steele Danner, former Assistant Secretary of Health, Spouse of retired Senior Military Leader
Major General Stephen L. Danner, USA (Ret)
Richard Danzig, former Secretary of the Navy
Melinda McMillon Darby, former Executive Director, Dept of Defense
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@Moozer325
For me, I use anarchy to mean “no laws and no ruling body whatsoever” whereas government is anything else.
Anarchy is "no laws", government is anything else.
"ruling body" implies an entity invested with authority to create laws at whim or make arbitrary decisions in general. That is what is conceptually unnecessary and in practice only necessary as a regulated component of a system designed to constrain government to justice (a bill of rights).
So I think what you mean by a lack of government just means power split equally between all citizens
No, and I never said the solution is a lack of government. You brought up the word 'anarchy'.
My point is deeper. My point is not about power, it's about truth.
Power ultimately belongs to those who can win the war. Sometimes those who win wars create governments where the distribution of power is structured. No matter where the power is, goes, or stays the truth doesn't change. Justice is a truth, not the product of power distribution.
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@Greyparrot
For those who don't click on links without a hint, it's all the warmongers and professional liars endorsing Kamala.
To keep the money laundering going, agents of the deep state will always do what they can to keep military and pharmaceutical funding going.
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@Greyparrot
I heard. We should asses a nation already.
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@Moozer325
Oh, I think I get what you’re saying now. I suppose I meant to say anarchy or any form of government. In that case, are you advocating for some kind of true, complete democracy as opposed to a republic?
No.
I am saying that a government's legitimate purpose is to secure the (objectively derived) rights of man. At the instant it does this flawlessly is has ceased to "rule" in any degree and only prevents men from "ruling" each other. It becomes "a government of laws, not men"
Free people have no ruler but reason and liberty.
"Non-government" is the opposite of "government"
"Non-government" (anarchy) is not the opposite of "rulers"
Or if you insist that anarchy is defined by the lack of rulers and ruling, then government can coexist with anarchy.
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are you advocating for some kind of true, complete democracy as opposed to a republic?
There is a philosophical razor called "the is ought problem", there is a related fallacy.
An analogous problem and fallacy is the confusion of the difference between moral actions and moral actors.
John is a good man.
John does X.
Therefore X is good.
and
X is good.
John does X.
Therefore John is good.
(the above inferences are fallacious)
This fallacy is especially prevalent when Americans (who are taught in such as way as to encourage the confusion) try and think about the ethics of government. Bringing us back to what you just assumed.
Democracy? Where did I mention anything about democracy? Republic? No that still came from you.
Why would you assume those were being discussed? What do they have in common? They are both forms of government, types of government, government structures.
I said (in essence)
Liberty & Reason are good governance.
A correct inference from that statement in relation to government is:
A government which secures liberty using reason is doing good.
but you went to forms of government and specifically contrasting democracy and republics. The actor-action moral fallacy is baked into your mind, you don't understand how to talk about 'right action' without talking about 'right forms'. The (also fallacious) corollary would be that there exists a 'right form' that guarantees 'right action'.
As I said american children (and probably others) are taught this conflation.
Democracy is good, therefore democracy does good. Freedom means democracy. Inject democracy and what can come but freedom? If democracy is lacking, how can there be freedom?
They are taught the same thing about republics.
but republic doesn't mean exactly the same thing as democracy, so maybe if there is something wrong with the government it's that the balance between democracy and republic is wrong? What else could it be?
It's not the balance between any form. One form is better than another only insofar as to promotes 'right action'. I would never say the solution to enslavement is democracy, the solution to enslavement is liberation. Democracies can liberate, republics can liberate, kings can liberate, and alien hive minds can liberate.
Pigs who don't understand the difference between slavery and liberation, pigs who are convinced that their pure intentions make all their actions just, they don't liberate. Those pigs would enslave if they were senators in a republic. They would enslave if they were the majority in a democracy. One pig would enslave if he was king, and a hive mind of those pigs would do the same.
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I am saying there is a right answer, the answer is arrived at through reason, nothing that contradicts that answer is correct, and that there is no absolutely sure way of guaranteeing that answer is followed.
I am saying that people who do not understand this are the danger regardless of the form of government, their empathy, their anger, or anything else.
Charters and constitutions with bills and declarations of rights are the only form 'the answer' can take in a specific government. A declaration of rights is the part of the government in which the question is not "who decides" but "what you may decide".
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The people who steal money (and don't even bother to tell you how much you have to hand over, "guess, jail") are in favor of the candidate who wants to steal more. Surprise surprise.
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@Moozer325
Anarchy or rulers, where did this dichotomy come from?Well sure, in theory anarchy is perfect, but we all know that human beings aren’t mature enough to handle it.
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@Double_R
So dangerous that suddenly all those 'crimes' he committed before when he was shaking Oprah's hand become interesting.Trump is a complete ignoramus who doesn't understand how anything works so his ideas and impulses are often dangerous
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@Double_R
The 2nd amendment implies people have a right to secure a free state using arms individually. Your error before was conflating this right with the right to do anything you want just because you believe you're securing a free state using your arms.It is a very good point, but the problem I pointed out at the end of my last post still remains. Unlike the immunity example you cited or any other for that matter, this individual right is one that is granted against the state itself. So while you can make a moral argument against it, there is no way to resolve this conflict without constitutionally empowering the state to decide whether force against itself is legitimate.
The resolution to the conflict is determined in the art of war. War is not guaranteed to be just anymore than governments are guaranteed to be just. The constitution is a document that makes government just (in theory) when it is followed. When it is being ignored violence is justified (if it really was perfect).
The only point in defining the criteria for legitimate forms of attack against the government in the document governing the government would be to create consensus in the rebellion. Worthwhile in my opinion but meaningless for a judge in the corrupt government, who if he agrees there is no peaceful restoration likely had best leave the robes at home and find a gun so he can join the rebellion.
The government does and always will decide whether aggression against itself is legitimate, but the government can be wrong and the constitution was not designed on the assumption that governments are infallible. You have not found a contradiction in the constitution nor in those who interpret the 2nd amendment as an individual right.
Trump's lawyers while arguing about immunity (and they're stuck in the conceptual sinkhole too) have basically said that POTUS has the right to do whatever he thinks the constitution charges him to do as opposed to "he has the right to do what the constitution actuallycharges him to do, err on his interpretation when doubt is reasonable".Great, so when Trump called up Georgia and told them to find 11,780 votes, the argument that he thought the election was stolen and he was carrying out his official duty to rectify it is not a defense, right?
Right.
Complaining about election legitimacy and demanding audits isn't a unique right of POTUS, it's the right of every citizen, no defense is needed. Now when he sent lawyers to audit the machines, the fact that he thought he it was a duty is irrelevant. What is relevant is that it was a legitimate function of the executive branch and any law that clearly criminalizes the executive branch upholding the constitution is itself unconstitutional and thus null.
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@Moozer325
“well then what does work?”, which I suppose is the whole point of the book.
Liberty & Reason.
The path to those is philosophy.
If you arrived at the concept of "rulers" you took a wrong turn, go back.
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@cristo71
My point is that nukes don't prevent terrorism, but neither do super carriers.my point is that Israel having nukes didn’t prevent October 7 any more than the US having nukes prevented 9/11.
Thus my proposal to rely on nukes instead of nukes and super-carriers (for example) to deter major nation state aggressors is undamaged by events like 9/11 or October 7 happening despite nukes.
Nukes deter nukes
Nukes deter anyone with cities they care about. Total victory is impossible so they don't even try.
Ukraine going for Kursk is not a plan that ends in Moscow, it's to gain chips at a negotiation table. Unconditional surrender of Russia is not possible because of their nuclear arsenal and everyone knows it.
Al Qaida was overseas (or so we thought) until September 11, 2001.
We did not need F-22s to defeat al quida. We needed a willingness to brainwash children and kill anyone who dared dissent. We didn't have that in Iraq or Afghanistan and we don't have that now. That is something money can't buy.
Military spending is about favors in the united states. It's about getting money out of the people of the united states and into the hands of people who can influence the federal government, especially the "intelligence community".
For what it’s worth, Trump asked General Keane to be his SecDef.
It's not worth anything given that Trump regularly had people lie to his face about what the federal government was actually doing.
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@Moozer325
My take is just that he shows how rule by the smart often descends into unjust rule
They weren't just smart though, they were revolutionary. Convinced of their own morality having had no opportunity under the rule of man to see if they were naturally purer than man.
This was somewhat the theme of planet of the apes as well.
Against the madness of man's war it would have been easy to hold yourself (as a non-human) apart from it and conclude that humanity was a poisoned evil thing; yet in your powerlessness as dumb beasts your nature is no more trustworthy. As soon as you got a gun and a net you started enslaving people. As soon as you could speak you started lying and plotting.
The point of both, or at least the point that makes it poignant to me is that when analyzing tyranny, madness, and evil there is a tendency to divorce yourself from it by claiming such behavior would not be natural to you.
I've seen this expressed by people criticizing religion as "you need a book to tell you to be good, but good people can be good without it".
That belief that there is something intrinsic "the good person" is the start of the slippery slope that the apes and the pigs both fell down.
The truth which stands in contrast to this error is: People are good when they know how to be good... and you never learn that if you don't think there is something to learn.
They say power corrupts, but I disagree. Power exposes the existing corruption. The powerless have no temptation to resist. It is when you have power that it matters that you know what you should resist and why.
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@Moozer325
I think he was trying to tell us that if the smart people of the world inherently have a right to rule, then it must also come with a duty to rule fairly and equally.
I don't think he was saying that.
If he was then the new plan was the old plan. There was a reason that the nobility was called "noble". They believed (or were made to believe) that moral virtue was an inheritable trait.
They had a duty to rule but they were thought to be most likely to do so fairly.
History had another lesson. There is no substitute for justice. Long before feudalism philosophers in the time of Socrates were forced to admit there is no substitute for truth (and what that means is no authority, no superstition, no religion is reliable).
All sapient creatures are moral actors and have a duty to be moral, that is the fundamental definition of duty. Without morality duty is meaningless. There is no place for "ruling", people can accept leaders and systems but it is their consent that creates the duty on both sides to do anything more than what is already required which is to refrain from violating rights.
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@Mall
Thank you mechanical being. The support of your troll amalgamation of reedit warms my soul.
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@cristo71
I actually agree with some specifics in "Technology and Technology Adoption"
Unfortunately, DoD R&D and procurement systems were built around a closed network ofdefense-funded organizations and traditional defense companies.2
This ought to be in 2km font.
In 2018, the Defense Innovation Board noted that DoD does not have an innovation problem, it has an innovation adoptionproblem.6
Definitely, so why does the budget need to increase? The the only reason is if they want all their useless shit (super carriers and such) plus some cheap drones that are actually capable of affecting extreme digital intelligence battlefields.
You take one super carrier off the menu and you could probably develop a drone fleet that would crush what Russia is using in Ukraine; I mean assuming it's not a money laundering scheme which is a very unsafe assumption for government spending.
Overcoming the cultural and institutional barriers to innovation at speed and scale is a criticalrequirement for achieving the goals of the NDS
lol "cultural", the culture of watching Lockheed Martin stock continue to rise as they are given more and more stolen money regardless of what they produce.
DoD must confront the institutional processes and incentives that favor continuing existingprograms, such as long planning cycles, overly specific requirements, inflexible budget lines,long-standing relationships with providers, proprietary technology, familiarity in using existingequipment, political support, ostensibly less risk of schedule delays and cost overruns, and fearsthat replacing existing programs will lead to operational gaps.
In other words "could you please stop being the military industrial complex, it's not working".
The U.S. security clearance system also impedes innovation by delaying nontraditionaldefense companies in conducting work with warfighting applications. Recent reforms havereduced the average time to process an application for a security clearance
I waited for 6 months before they let me work on anything (this was a while ago). What is it now, 5.5 months? Like a drop of water on a raging fire. The system needs to be burned to the ground. Everyone above major general and every civilian can go home and enjoy retirement if you want to fix this. If Trump knew what he was talking about he would have done this already.
The "Technology and Technology Adoption" didn't have much in the way of specifics on technology. Just mentioned 'drones' once. I assume the rest is just general lambasting "do better" (spend more but magically reverse the trends of the last 70 years and start spending efficiently).
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@cristo71
The report was not made by the DoD.
It basically was, the people are old Bush era deep state war mongers who lied about WMDs so blackrock could pretend to build roads for a decade. Those are the types that run the DoD through a network of unelected paper pushers.
Scary thing is that many of them actually believe they're saving the USA. They (like the chiense and russians equivalents) watch way to many WW2 movies wistfully.
Agree or disagree with the conclusions of the report, I’m mainly saying that it should be part of the national conversation.
Well the fact that there are reports like this should definitely be part of the national conversation. Right now these reports are taken very seriously by a very small group of people. The kind of people who would lie to POTUS about troop deployments: https://www.defenseone.com/threats/2020/11/outgoing-syria-envoy-admits-hiding-us-troop-numbers-praises-trumps-mideast-record/170012/
Another word might be oath-breaking blood-lusting insubordinate enemies of the constitution...
Then again if a candidate with a real chance did try to make this stuff a point of public attention I'm sure they would get the Trump treatment. Then we would be talking about how he or she raped 50 people and is a racist to boot.
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@cristo71
Remember when France was invaded and is now occupied? Oh wait that hasn't happened since they got nukesYou don’t think Israel has nukes?
I don't think an F-22 does any better against Hamas than an F-16 (huge price difference).
Israel is going for the global historical record of the least collateral + allied damage against enemies that dress in civilian clothes, refuse to meet on the battlefield, and hide behind women and children.
Plus they (unlike the USA or the other countries I mentioned) are keeping their nukes (if any) a secret. This radically different strategy caused by their unique situation where their major nation state rivals don't yet have nukes and if Israel started bragging about having them those rivals would be publicly obliged to start their own nuclear weapons programs.
Israel won't tolerate that so that would inevitably lead to a large war (which may happen anyway).
The USA has family oriented Catholics to the south and hockey oriented jean jacket wearers to the north. We have no insurgency war except the one we're allowing to happen through unchecked migration.
The wars the Pentagon wants more money to prepare for are overseas.
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To start off the examples I have here a segment of a youtube where we see General Mark Milley apparently confess that Trump told him to use all necessary military forces to secure the capitol building on Jan 6.
We know now that Milley did not respect the chain of command and did not take this order seriously, we know he turned against Trump... or do we?
Given this and his other behavior it is simpler to say he was never for Trump. He was recommend by the deep state to Trump (who knew and knows nobody competent in the miltiary). Milley was always deep state and when it came to Jan 6 he may not have needed to be told what they wanted to see happen (although I wouldn't be surprised if he was actually told, perhaps by Pelosi whom he was conspiring with).
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What is it? Who is in it? Where is their secret mountain lair?
This topic is a place where I can collect examples which support the conclusion that there is a deep state. What is a deep state? Basically it's corruption, but when people think of corruption they think of a bunch of embezzlers out for themselves and not interacting with each other nor trying to strike back against those trying to expose them.
I am talking about an informal conspiracy to continue and expand mass theft and global domination of a power bloc (as run by these corrupt elites and which benefits them). This is associated in propaganda to a post-WW2 vision of the united states as the sole global superpower with a dark and menacing enemy in the form of Russia or China (whoever can be more easily painted as such at the time).
These people are not all cookie cutters of each other. Some are wrong. Some are evil. Some are evil and wrong. Besides when you dig into it there isn't all that much of a difference between being wrong and being evil. A more telling difference is that some think they are sacrificing the truth for the greater good, and some know they don't give a shit about the 'commoners' because they're too stupid to be trusted with the truth anyway.
There are things that the deep state wants as a whole and any nation, group, or individual who threatens those things finds themselves on the losing end of a really inexplicable amount of "bad luck". Take Donald Trump or Julian Assange for example. After practically his whole life of purportedly committing crimes he finally faces justice only now. What a coincidence? Julian Assange, on the run from the 'rules based international order' (the deep state) for the grand and heinous crime of publishing secrets, an activity which at least in the US is protected by constitutional amendment.
Wherever he went to escape somehow criminal charges appeared. What a coincidence that someone who threatens the secrets of the deep state is a rampaging rapist in Sweden but never before and also lacking evidence. What did Trump apparently do? Well besides all the evil in the world? Rape too? Wow. Something about these people who stand in the way of the deep state. They're just so rapey.
This subject is one of those where the evidence is extremely volumous but very diffuse. It's easy for skeptics to poke fun at people because it's a very broadly defined phenomenon with a thousand different smoking guns, each of which could be attributed to something localized. It takes a constant long term exposure to integrate it all and see the larger pattern.
If I were to give a historical analogy it would be the colonization of the Americas by Europeans. Unlike many I don't believe there was ever once a direct conspiracy of any size or seriousness that planned for genocide. Much of what happened happened because the european way of life allowed for greater population density and corresponding resource utilization. The way europeans lived was generally safer and more comfortable. This erodes neighboring cultures which are inferior in these fields either by attracting 'converts' or winning a war started to maintain the low efficiency use of the land.
Yet there was another aspect too, the part that is analogous to the deep state. Somehow every treaty involving the demarcation of land 'evolved' to be a shell of itself. Sovereignty turned to becoming a corrupt creature of the BIA. Nations became reservations. Reservations shrunk.
One would need to search long and hard to find a treaty with a native political entity that was not broken by the US government. In each case there is an excuse, a pretext. "they broke it first, then we fought and renegotiated"
Yet it always seems to be the way right after a new wave of migration is approved. What a coincidence? Other than confession and intercepting communication the combination of coincidences until conspiracy is the least unlikely explanation are how conspiracies are found.
There never had to be a dark smokey room where they wrung their hands and planned to conquer the west and break all the treaties they made. All that was required was for a large class of people with power to know that there were others in power who had the same interests as they did. Single conspiracies aren't required when the plan is simple enough to be understood without them or when the plan can be communicated through smaller conspiracies. Like cells in a terrorist organization if the railroad tycoon and the army officer both want to kill a particular tribe of indians it can't be said that they were on a conspiracy with the BIA or the rest of the government in DC right?
Well when the government in DC doesn't stop them, interferes with those who try to stop them, and approves putting pressure to renegotiate to remove what's left of the tribe afterwards what does that prove?
It doesn't prove they planned it, but it does prove they wanted it. That was the deep state then. Now we have our own version. Human civilization will always have a deep state when the public will not tolerate the actions in the open. Much like the devil, the deep state is never more powerful then why people laugh at the idea of its existence.
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@cristo71
Everyone is focused on high prices, but we need to be mindful of the very high price of war and preventing it.
We are in the possession of thousands of multiple independently targetable nuclear warhead, intercontinental ballistic missiles.
All we need to do to stay out of wars is to not start them by puppeting minor countries along the borders of military powerhouses and then acting like the wars we started are an existential crises for us.
The whole world would be far better off if we disarmed down to the nuclear deterrence and maybe worked on some technology that would actually help in a future war. (Everything we see in the Ukraine Russia war indicates that our theory of war is outdated and 85% of what we spend our military budget on is outdated and would get a lot of our soldiers killed if they ever had to fight a modern war with an enemy who knows how to utilize the new technology)
Remember when France was invaded and is now occupied? Oh wait that hasn't happened since they got nukes, and it won't happen unless the French let it happen via migration. UK? India?
Nations with nukes don't get invaded. Something Ukraine is learning the hard way.
Until we're prepared to face the greatest threat to world peace by dismantling the CIA, NSA, etc... and publishing everything they've ever done this is hawkish drivel designed to justify expanding the already unjustifiable theft of enormous wealth from US citizens and humanity at large (because the way US conducts foreign policy means wealth is being funneled to the USA and then to the government under threat of force)
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@Sidewalker
The machine gods will remember your mockery...
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@Double_R
And my point is that you cannot enshrine a right to each individual citing a responsibility that the individual does not have the right to act upon.
That point is correct.
The 2nd amendment implies people have a right to secure a free state using arms individually. Your error before was conflating this right with the right to do anything you want just because you believe you're securing a free state using your arms.
If you want an analogy look at the office of president. Trump's lawyers while arguing about immunity (and they're stuck in the conceptual sinkhole too) have basically said that POTUS has the right to do whatever he thinks the constitution charges him to do as opposed to "he has the right to do what the constitution actually charges him to do, err on his interpretation when doubt is reasonable".
Just as you are confusing "right and duty to use arms to keep the state free" to "right and duty to use arms to do anything you can convince yourself is keeping the state free".
This is a very important legal distinction that has implications to much more common use of law. For example if there is a right to self-defense, the standard must be "reasonable fear for one's life" (I would say reasonable fear for the right's of man). It can't be "He was afraid, only he gets to decide if he was afraid for good reason, and he used force and only he gets to decide if it was excessive force."
The 2nd amendment says that the assassin has a right to own a gun. It implies that he has a right to use the gun in rebellion against tyranny. It does not imply that just because he sees tyranny there is tyranny nor does it imply that the target of his aggression is legitimate in a moral or practical sense.
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It is still hilarious when ultra bullshit triggers canned responses in idiots. Again presuming these aren't all AIs and I'm one of the few humans on this site. If that's the case I give up and welcome our new robot overlords.
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@Best.Korea
I said that already.I am starting to believe that you are a controlled opposition.
Like you except nobody is controlling you, you just aspire to make every faction look stupid in turns.
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I believe the words "federal tax law" should be a profane slur used against collectivists trying to drag the future civilization of humanity back into the dark ages.
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@WyIted
I think there is also a psychological factor in this. What you describe is more or less amoral self-interest, but I don't think that explains everything we see in every detail.
I think heirs and heiresses tend to be brought up in such a way their their view of the world is warped. If they self-reflect (and not everyone does) they rarely find a sound philosophy and instead find themselves focused on their luxurious life and trying to explain it. They feel forced to choose between delusions of genetic grandeur and original sin.
Original sin leads them to the new left-tribe religion these days. That is where they can be properly flagellated (verbally) for having racist and greedy ancestors (whether this can be confirmed or not doesn't matter). Then they get their absolution through the virtue signalling and tithes to reparations and the DNC.
Another trap is when empathetic rich heirs buy into the lie that if it wasn't for the greed everyone would be just as comfortable as they were. These people tend actually try and help others but usually they're too naive to know how to do so efficiently, they run into a wall where they would have to start sacrificing their future comfort, many refuse to do that and then feel guilty about it leading to the previous scenario.
Since FLRW is going to be unable to help himself and remind everyone Trump is a rich heir, I would say that if there is a way to avoid these psychological traps it would be to force your children to succeed on their own. Even if you give them significant seed money (and that is truly a great advantage that most people never have) they learn the utterly critical lesson that money does not grow on trees, you make the wrong decision and you lose it for little in return. This causes them to realize that their recent ancestors were if nothing else cunning and industrious which can neutralize the guilt the left-religion tries to induce.
I really have no idea how Trump made more money and I don't know how the average person would do with the same seed money, but I can tell you one thing for sure: There is nothing wrong with that man's ego, no guilt problem at all.
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@Double_R
You would be happy if they decided in groups of 60 or more?I'm not the one cheering the supreme court's interpretation.
Nor are you one who is cheering the constitution if you don't think there is an interpretation that you find 'reasonable'.
2nd amendment says each individual has the right to keep and bear arms. The first part of the sentence gives the most important reason, presumably so no future government would be tempted to try and limit the definition of 'arms' to...It doesn't say or imply that. It explicitly states that the reason is to ensure the security of a free state. That's a very wide umbrella
The debate during the drafting does and it is implicit.
Q: Why should civilians have weapons?
A:To ensure the security of a free state. To defend themselves from small groups of criminals. To hunt. To defend themselves against wild animals.
Q: Why give only the first reason?
A: That is the reason which has the strongest implications about the military capacity civilians should have. You don't need a canon to defend yourself from thieves. You don't need a canon to hunt. You may need a canon to ensure the security of a free state.
"free" wasn't added to pad the word count. The implication (especially in context) is that states that are less than free need to be replaced with free states and that any state that is free would not fear its own people being capable of revolt. Free states serve the people, a people that have been pushed to revolt do not feel served. (insert pun invoking "are you being served" which I can't think of).
and like I've said, since the constitution vests that responsibility to "the people" then it follows that it's up to the people to determine how to accomplish this.
The 2nd amendment declares a preexisting right of the people to be armed with government tier weapons. While I agree it is implied that the people would determine how to use weapons to ensure a free state, there is no implication that any determination any individual may make is moral and ought to be free from criticism or retaliation.
Have a gun = no retaliation
Use a gun = depends
As you love to say: This is basic
I think this is extremely vague which is problematic
I agree. Many more carefully chosen words would have been helpful, but if you look at the context you'll find many times what was not said was not said because there was no consensus.
Take deafening silence on slavery for example. Everybody agreed only a tyrannical government tried to disarm the population. That is what made it into the 2nd amendment.
if you then determine that "the people" is referring to the individual citizenry, then you can't claim the individual citizenry is wrong when they see a political figure as a threat and decide to nullify it.
A.) I didn't write the constitution, I don't agree it perfectly accomplishes its aims and I don't agree its aims are perfect.
B.) It is a document with a fair bit of coherency, especially in the extended context which is a mater of historical record. Such documents have correct interpretations and incorrect interpretations as a matter of objective fact.
C.) Arguing that is says X is not arguing that X is morally or practically perfect.
D.) "the people" is a multidimensional phrase as used at that time, it refers to all individuals as well as the collective they make up. In terms of rights guaranteed against government "the people" can only be (correctly) interpreted as an individual right. Governments already claim to be avatars of the collective.
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
That is the amendment which was twisted into a knot ball a meter wide for Roe v Wade I believe. If "the people" weren't individuals then I suppose it's up to the collective whether you're having the baby.
E.) So bringing it all together... "then you can't claim the individual citizenry is wrong when they see a political figure as a threat and decide to nullify it."
I could certainly claim they are wrong even if the constitution implied their individual decisions are legally irrelevant and they must not face government force for their actions.
Yet, the constitution does not imply that (still). All it implies is that there are some cases where governments are a threat to liberty of the people (free state) and in those cases the people should be armed so they have a violent option. When you argue about how violence could be used to ensure proper governance you are now under normal rules of evidence and logic and no longer talking about what the document means because it simply does not say.
Of course, every bit as ridiculous as the supreme court deciding that the President is entitled to full immunity for any crimes he commits through his government agencies
I think that decision was silly as well. It was couched in the wrong terms and the court continued the conceptual error.
It's not nearly as bad as "government can't break into your house and start reading your mail -> therefore there is a right to privacy -> therefore anything you can keep secret is a right -> therefore the government can't make laws about what you do in your bedroom or the doctors office"
The logic is absurd, the implications are absurd, and to top it all off it wasn't even applied in a remotely equitable way.
I think we agree on something: The supreme court are just a bunch of people, not gods, not a fountain of truth.
Now which of us likes to appeal to authority? "but they're not real authorities, if they were actual experts I would agree with them!!!"
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@Moozer325
I find it extremely hard to believe that not a single person decided to assassinate a politician that they hated because of "cultural differences".
Yet you believe they stopped assassinating in general because they didn't have a modern semiautomatic rifle.
Medival Europe <Lots of assasinations, daggers, poison, crossbows, strangling> -> 18th century colonies <almost no assasination, still daggers, poison, crossbows, strangling + muskets, gunpowder bombs, canons, multibarrel pistols (easily concealed), and long rifles> -> Modern times <all the previous plus semiautomatic rifles and pistols. Lincoln killed point blank, a poisoned long knife would have almost perfect kill rates in the same position, teddy was shot with a pistol, Kenedy was shot with a bolt action rifle which built in 1891>
... but you want to maintain that in the 18th century colonies if there weren't assassinations it was because they just wouldn't find out how to do it until the AR15?
I'm just saying that it's hard for me to believe with nothing supporting it.
You play innocent skeptic well, but it was you who made the assertion about the founders being unaware weapons could be used for assassinations. It's your burden of proof, and it sure is a tall one given that they had better weapons than previous times and places in history with many assassinations.
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@Moozer325
No it wasn't. They weren't assassinated by other methods in the colonies. There were almost no assassinations to speak of. It simply was not the way the anglosphere conducted itself after the issue with Cromwell.Your whole thing about people being assassinated by other methods is exactly my point.
The reason people were not assassinated by long rifle was because people were not being assassinated. End of story. How do we know? Because the long rifle would have been an excellent tool of assassination.
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@Moozer325
I guess I should have expected it, you consistently apply the same error as gun grabbers today to the past.But my point still remains that political assassinations just didn't happen with the weapons used at the time.
"If they were not assassinated, then it must be because it was impossible!"
You need to think deeper. There are plenty of assassinations in history and plenty before firearms. Knives and poison were rarely used for assassinations in the colonies and UK as well. It was cultural.
Your point was that muskets were incapable of being used to assassinate a political leader and muskets were the only weapon the feeble minds of the founders could imagine. That point did not stand.
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@Moozer325
It is proof of the relevant details. You were wrong in your assumption that they had no weapons which were accurate enough for assassinations. At 50 yards a skilled shooter with a long rifle could be almost certain to hit. Especially given the lack of secret service and perimeters at the time.Targeting officers during war time is nowhere near assassinating a president.
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@Double_R
You're assuming both parties are doing it correctly.No, I'm assuming both parties are comprised of human beings.
Why would the species be relevant?
More fundamentally what is "a solution" supposed to mean in this sentence?A mutually accepted resolution
Insofar as arbitration is already a mutually accepted resolution all you have said is that mutually accepted resolutions are mutually accepted resolutions.
Now are you claiming to make a point relevant to the OP, epistemology, or the objective meaning of the bill of rights? because I'm not seeing it.
That's your whole problem; you don't respect any resolution you disagree with as legitimate.
Nobody does, if we didn't see anything wrong with the 'resolution' we would agree with it, but we're programmed by society (said like joker) to have the mildly sociopathic strategy of pretending.
The understanding of free speech in the united states is one of the few examples of near perfection in law and government policy. There is nothing that I can't disagree with and no law is permitted to force me to agree with anything. If I went to court there is no phase at which the judge will ask me to agree or be whipped. They make a decision and it doesn't matter who agrees.
That's not normal in human history, it was much more normal to focus on the surrender of convictions as the actual goal. "confess! confess!"
Now would I consent to a government with judges that occasionally get things wrong? Of course I would, but that is not consenting to accepting that what they got wrong was right and it is predicated (and this would be explicit in a well written constitution) on those errors being minimized and rare. To be worthy of consent a constitution would have to have as many safeguards as possible in all areas to prevent corruption and even then (as I said in the other thread) no document can survive an unlimited willingness to misinterpret it.
It is simply a fundamental moral fact that when you consent to A, and it turns into ~A, you didn't consent to whatever the hell it has become.
There will always be disagreement within a society, that's not avoidable.
True
If people do not accept the outcomes they disagree with we wouldn't have one.
I have no trouble accepting that people may use their liberty in ways I find less than ideal. I have no trouble accepting that people will fail to use logic. That's the only acceptance that is required for civilization to exist.
The trouble is when I am ordered to accept the fallible as the definition of truth.
The trouble is when I am ordered to accept the violation of liberty.
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@Moozer325
In those days, you couldn’t assassinate someone with a musket
*sigh*
I think if you gave any founding father an AR15 they would at least start to rethink the 2nd amendment.
If you then showed them a Spirit B2 bomber they would say "we needed to seriously reinforce the 2nd amendment", possibly by forcing any standing federal military to provide the same weapons it used to state militaries.
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