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@TheRealNihilist
If you don't want to get pregnant but still would like to enjoy sex. Preach to the government about paying for birth control rather then making people pay taxes for things that help enjoy good things without negative consequences afterwards.
Pay for your own birth control. It's not that expensive. You can buy 6 condoms for $5. If you can't afford birth control, don't have sex. It's easy. I've been a virgin my whole life.
We are supposed to help bad people not tax them. You don't understand how to run a country if you value exploiting weakness above helping others.
ASTAP enables helping people by discouraging bad things. They aren't big taxes either for the most part.
That is not evidence. Where are the citations?
If there were citations to the graph you would ask what are the citation's citations. For some reason, you ask for links and when I provide links, you want links to those links. If I gave you those, you would ask for more, etc. Here is a citation approved by the CDC: https://public.tableau.com/profile/tina.norris#!/vizhome/FIGURE8_1/Dashboard8_1
If they can't pay for necessary medical related issues how are they supposed to pay for STD treatment?
They can get insurance.
Tell me do you believe in trickle down economics?
I don't believe that the government should subsidize any private company. If this is trickle down economics, then no.
One person personal experience is not a good way in saying most people have this are like this.
The person said that the top 10% of drinkers drink 74 beers a week.
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@Snoopy
Vegans are merciless towards to the plant kingdom
So are omnivores.
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@TheRealNihilist
If you don't want to die don't get shot.
If you don't want to get shot, arm yourself because the criminal will always have a weapon.
Medical issues. If they can't afford necessary medical related issues how do you suppose the are supposed to be pay for less necessary or less immediate treatment?
The people are insured. ASTAP shows how they can get insurance paid for with a minimum wage job.
The government does something similar with tobacco yet less people smoke.Evidence?
I don't know why you always want evidence, but the smoking rate is below:
They filed for bankruptcy which means they don't have enough money. This is clearly not a point against people who can't for medical issues since that was the cause of bankruptcy.
?
So you are for abolishing taxing income?
Yes.
The typical alcoholic drinks like 10 beers a day, so that would cost about $20 a day from that alone. How can poor people afford that with all their other expenses?Was supported by that linkwhich is based on an anecdote. Am I correct? If so do you have actual evidence?
It was based off of some research. I know that it's about 10 drinks a day per person that is in the drunkest tenth of the US population.
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@Snoopy
Vegan advocates claim that veganism is good for the environment and then I brought up a double standard charge.
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@Snoopy
is that people might advocate for something that isn't personally practical under the current circumstances, or only specifically address something which is personally sensible in their own view.
If going solar is unfeasible for preachers of solar panels, it's probably unfeasible for many other people too. It's best to let those that want to go solar to go solar and to leave everyone else alone.
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@TheRealNihilist
Me getting solar panels doesn't stop climate change or environmental problems at a large scale.
Neither does preaching for alternative energy. My house actually has solar panels. It works pretty well; $100 gets saved every month. I'm not telling other people to get panels though.
Even if I decide to get solar panels many other people are not using renewable more environmentally friendly power so basically my approach does not matter on a large scale.
It works on a small scale, and it means that you wouldn't be a hypocrite.
The government producing more renewable energy is more help to the country then a person who isn't in the government could ever could.
Getting this whole nation to go solar costs trillions of dollars when factoring in the panels, the batteries, and the transport of the electricity. Given that climate change will only cost humans about $1 trillion, I would rather wait until the technology for solar power gets better for humans to use something like solar.
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@TheRealNihilist
If you don't want to die. Don't get shot. Care to explain how gun laws are not necessary?
This is off topic, so I shouldn't respond to this. If you want to have a gun debate on a forum, make a forum about it. This forum is about ASTAP.
People claim bankruptcy for a necessity like medical and you think they can save up for this?
They file for bankruptcy for surgeries other then STD treatment. I imagine to treat an STD, you just have to take some pills, although I might be wrong on this.
What makes you so sure that the government won't take it a step further and not help people with alcohol almost make like a tax loop that assures them a consistent supply of taxes?
The government does something similar with tobacco yet less people smoke. If alcohol is treated like tobacco, less people would want to drink. The tax loss would be gradual and can be added on to the adult tax when it happens.
STD is a medical issue. If the person files for bankruptcy due to medical issues who can you say they can pay for it?
Not all medical issues are expensive. I don't know how expensive it is to treat an STD, but if they don't get treated, then eventually every human will have ever STD and humanity would suffer on such a basis.
So you are for taxing the rich?
Not on the basis of income, but on the basis of "sins". If there is a sin tax that rich people are more likely to indulge in, that is tecnecally a tax on the rich, but not because they are rich.
Where are you getting these numbers from?
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@dustryder
Your spreadsheets are set to private.
My mistake. I fixed it to public sharing now. Hopefully you can access it. If not, request access and I can share it with you.
Hours to work don't just magically appear and there is no automatic switch for spending.
There are 24 hours in a day. A minimum wage worker can work 15 hours a day and have their expenses fulfilled with a $7.25 minimum wage.
Take the minimum living wage of Florida for example which is ~$24,000.
How did you get $24000 a year? My link got nearly $40,000 per year with a $7.25 minimum wage(https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/136MFNyPCnOs50_QltxPvkBpS2OydnNfG7WZYb21qTrM/[email protected]&ts=5cd74641&actionButton=1#gid=320988619).
Of course you also need to calculate time spent for meal preparation, personal hygiene and house work.
Showering once a day takes about half an hour. Meal preparation can be done quickly if they buy food that's easy to prepare, like many sandwiches. If they can't afford I house, I suggest just buying a tent and using that as a shelter. It works and it's cheap, which is what poor people need. Thoughts on that?
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@Pinkfreud08
I'm worried that the robots might turn on humanity. We need to keep them in check to make sure they don't do that.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
You automatically assume anyone making less than 17k a year is working a minimum wage job?
Yes. This seems like a fair assumption to make.
That answers my question. Spoiled rich kid it is.
Ad hominid attack.
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@mustardness
reasonable as deer have not many natural predators ergo proliferate like rabbits for that reason.
They can have a new predator; humans.
Bad idea and has not any comprehensive consideration of detriment of total beef industry on environment. Were in tear 2020 not 1020.
If you want to fix the environment, get solar panels. Until you get those, it's kindof hypocritical. Besides, I thought you wanted to save animal lives. Eating meat is not archaic.
Meat is more and more irrelevant and insignificant concern for human health since industrial age.
It's possible to survive on a vegan diet. However, some people like meat for the taste. They should be allowed to eat lab grown meat if they want once it becomes economically feasible.
Human treatment of chickens is never a bad idea ergo the industry needs to change for many differrent reasons.
Many farmers treat their chickens well. It varies from farm to farm.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
My spreadsheet shows how someone who works a minimum wage job (I'm assuming you do) can pay the $17,000. They just work more hours at the store they work at, and then they cut back on spending. This way, they can save money that can be used for investments, making the poor person richer. If you work a minimum wage job, then the sheet for how you can pay the $17,000 tax is below:
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@TheRealNihilist
If the government pays for it then they wouldn't even need to discourage against people who are not ready to have children or would be at risk of children without birth control.
If you don't want kids, don't have sex.
What if they can't pay for it?
Then they save up to get treatment. I imagine it's very cheap compared to $200/year.
So you are for exploiting weaknesses in humans?
To an extent, yes. There also will be people that quit alcohol consumption due to the taxes. It's not a big tax either.
If it wasn't clear already looking at the data 66.5 percent of bankruptcies are filed under medical issues. You thought is not really realistic.
Those are for surgeries that are very expensive. Just getting an STD treated I imagine costs very little money. Once STDs are eradicated, then humanity can enjoy sex more since there is less incentive to enforce abstinence.
You pretty much stated rich people are not likely to get addicted to alcohol
I imagine rich people are disproportionally more likely to be practicing alcoholics because they can afford it.
Alcohol is cheap therefore the poor can afford to get drunk.
The typical alcoholic drinks like 10 beers a day, so that would cost about $20 a day from that alone. How can poor people afford that with all their other expenses?
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@dustryder
My spreadsheet shows how the poor can afford this tax system with thousands a year in excess money, after Food, Insurance, Shelter, Taxes, and Other has been paid for. The link is below:
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@dustryder
If you are an adult in the US, you get taxed $17,000 per year. This way, even if people gradually stop doing other things, the US still gets tax revenue.
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@Snoopy
If that happens, then it's harder to eat the meat since there is lead inside it.
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@TheRealNihilist
I suppose there could be a violence tax, but I don't know how much revenue that would bring in.
Breaking any illegal law would vary fro law to law. I don't think there should be a minimum punishment for breaking a law because some crimes just aren't that punishable. An example would be stealing a penny.
Birth control is better for that than a tax.
I'm fine with people using contraception. I don't think the government should be paying for it.
If people are taxed for having an STD, they would want treatment more in order to avoid paying the tax. There should be an exception for non treatable STDs, but spreading those by having sex should be more punishable. I think people can afford treatment.
People who are addicted with that substance simply will pay more for it.
If that happens, then it's a reliable source of income. Besides, aren't rich people more likely to be addicted to alcohol, so it's basically a tax on them for the most part. Poor people can't afford to get drunk.
I want to see any evidence you have that taxation encourages a condition you laid out.
If you punish (insert behavior), you get less of it.
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@Greyparrot
From what I've heard, they are killed by execution. Even if your right, a deer is shot in the head is killed quickly too.
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@TheRealNihilist
Most of the taxes except the adult american tax is pretty small in cost, and I don't have a rape victim tax. I do have a rape tax because rape is evil. I have an unintended pregnancy tax to discourage people from having premarital sex. I have an STD tax to encourage more people to get their STDs treated. Alcohol should be discouraged with a tax. Same with smoking. The adultery tax is supposed to discourage non consenting adultery. Adultery breaks families apart.
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@TheRealNihilist
The Goal
Source(s)
Making this the only form of taxing people so people are taxed on bad or neutral things, but not taxed on good things like starting a buisiness, making an income or owning a house.
Item
How much tax($)
Unit for it
US population affected
Total Revenue($)
Total Revenue(Billions of $)
Smoke Ciggaretts
5.10
20 Ciggaretts
50,000,000.00
69,854,062,500.00
69.8540625
1,2
Alchohoul
2.00
Beer equ of alchohoul
232,421,052.63
266,802,766,917.29
266.8027669
3
Gasoline(it pollutes, people will still buy it)
0.75
Gallon
256,000,000.00
107,250,000,000.00
107.25
4
Food
0.00
1.00
320,000,000.00
0.00
0.00
6
Rape
1,250,000.00
Victim
320,000,000.00
122,800,000,000.00
122.80
5
Adult American tax
17,000.00
Person
256,000,000.00
4,352,000,000,000.00
4352
STD/STI tax
200
Having an STD
65,000,000
13,000,000,000.00
13
7
Adultury
1000
Per encounter
1408000
1,408,000,000.00
1.408
10
Unintended pregenecy tax
5,000
Per pregnency
14,400,000
72,000,000,000
72
9
Totals
5005.114829
Goal: $5 trillion
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I think they should. I have yet to read/hear a good argument from the opposing side but I'm willing to change my mind.
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Home school kids tend to be ahead of their non home school counterparts academically.
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@Snoopy
I might be wrong on this, but a majority of farm animals are raised on factory farms. So, is it better to eat a deer from the wild that died with little pain or to kill a cow that probably died pretty painfully?
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@TheRealNihilist
I tried sharing it with you, but I don't know your email.
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@mustardness
Do you think hunting should be banned? If so, how is it that different from eating meat from a farm?
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@TheRealNihilist
I could have sent it privately, but since the mods were asking for feedback, I figured I could tell them this way. Most of my votes were tie votes, which the mods say don't need a RFD.
Do you want sympathy for what you did that removed voting privileges?
No.
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@David
@bsh1
Can I have my voting privileges back? It was a long time since I screwed up.
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@TheRealNihilist
Check the plan out if interested. If you can't access, then let me know and I can share it with you.
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@Snoopy
As someone who is mostly vegan, the militant vegans should think of other ways to save animal lives. Some of these ways are:
1) To encourage hunting of deer for food. Deer are big animals, they provide more meat then chickens, so it makes sense to kill 1 deer to get the same amount of meat that you would have to kill 100s of chickens to get. Plus, deer die relatively painlessly when shot.
2) To encourage people to eat beef instead of chicken. A cow has more meat, so less of them die for the same amount of meat.
3) To encourage lab grown meat. I think Lab grown meat requires virtually no animal death and with mass production, it becomes cheap.
These solutions can work. Accusing people of torturing chickens for eggs when that is often not the case doesn't work.
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@Yassine
You know more about Islam then I do. I got a few questions.
What are the odds of going to Jinnah/Heaven according to your religion?
How do you know Islam is correct, as opposed to the other religions that exist?
Do you think the following idea has any merit:?
-What if every God that ever existed (The Christian one, the Muslim one, etc.) colonized this planet like Europe colonized Africa, and where the Christian God influenced became Christian majority(Most of Europe, Most of the Americas, etc) , where the Muslim God influenced became Islamic (The Arab world) etc. and areas change faiths based on the purchasing ability of the religions. An example would be the Christian God buying the Roman empire from Pagans, which explains why the Roman empire went Christian so fast. Atheism is an independence movement and the Christian God and Bhudda decided to give their colonies independence since Christian territory and China are becoming more secular.
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@Speedrace
Matthew 7:13-14 states, “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."(https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%207:13-14&version=NIV)
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@Speedrace
You go to hell for a lot of things. The bible says most of us will go to hell. It's why I'm not religious. I think God is a tyrant.
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@Speedrace
The bible says that men who practice homosexuality will go to hell. Our country is in a scary place because communist leftists run our schools and much of the mainstream media. Facebook banned Paul Joseph Watson.
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@mustardness
Both Muslims and guns have a small portion that commits terror attacks/shootings. Do you judge them as individuals or as groups?
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I like ASTAP. It is a tax plan that I think can provide the government with the money it needs to function without taxing the rich excessively. Let me know what you guys think on it. The link is below:
If interested, but can't access it, let me know and I can share it with you. It's not set in stone so I can make improvements where I see fit.
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Evidence?
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm states that the firearm homicide rate was 4.5 per 100,000. I was a little off.
Human violence and animal violence is bad.
Animal violence is totally legal. I think it's fine for others to kill animals for whatever reason they want. This includes hunting, farming, and fishing.
From what it seems you don't address how little you are a libertarian like with most others libertarians.
I don't agree with libertarians on everything, but I agree with them more then liberals or conservatives.
A nuke is a deterrent to crime like a gun so it does have a positive based on a deterrent.
There are other ways to deter crime other then a nuke. Plus, no individual owns a nuke. Most countries even don't have them.
By infringing on the freedom of the rapist.
In this context, bodily autonomy should be more of a right then the right to fuck whoever you want.
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@TheRealNihilist
A lot of text. I'll rebuttal what I can it seems.
According to your own link, the definition of anarchy is, "absence of government". With the government gone even for things like rape and murder, there are no laws on it, so it becomes legal.
Here are some differences between libertarians and anarchist: https://www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-libertarian-and-vs-anarchist/
So basically you don't have an argument against nuclear bombs, tanks or fighter jets until someone uses them.
On a national scale, yes. Countries can protect themselves. However, on an individual scale, people should not be allowed to own nukes because there is nothing a nuke can do positively that you can't accomplish with a less destructive weapon, like a gun.
Since stopping a rapist to what they want to do freely is anti-libertarian.
Incorrect. Stopping a rapist is libertarian because it infringes on the rights of the rape victim.
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@TheRealNihilist
You probably won't need a gun, but it's better to be safe then sorry. The article said that .9% of gun owners use a gun in self defense. The homicide rate is about 4 per 100,000 in the US per year. Even over the course of a lifetime, the odds of a gun being used to kill at least one innocent person is less then .2%.
Hunting is a form of animal violence.
Unless society makes vegetarianism mandatory, it's kindof a double standard to ban hunting. I say this as someone who is mostly vegan.
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@TheRealNihilist
An anarchist believes in no rules whatsoever. An anarchist believes that rape and murder should be legal. A libertarian believes that only the things that don't infringe on anybody's rights should be legal. This means that I think murder should be illegal since that hurts the person who got killed without their consent. It means that I think rape should be illegal because that infringed on the rights of the rape victim. However, weed is fine. Guns are fine, as long as you don't want to shoot anybody with them. It means that Muslims should not be banned, but that people should be judged as individuals, so no affirmative action.
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@dustryder
I'm not sure what you mean by zones or space here. In the sense of how you've divided up the USA into zones or spaces and then derived the 1% figure
What I meant is is that gun free zones are rare in the US. This could be part of the reason why 16% of mass shootings happen in them. If gun free zones make up less then 16% of the area of the US, then they are more likely to have mass shootings in them.
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@bsh1
I saw it. Sorry about that.
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@dustryder
I'm not subscribed to the Washington Post, so I didn't read that article. I read the other one and it stated that 16% of mass shootings happen in gun free zones. Yet, openly gun free zones make up like 1% of the zones in the USA. Gun free zones are very rare here. So the fact that gun free zones make up an extremely small portion of the space yet account for 16% of mass shootings means that I think openly gun free zones(places that post a "gun free zone" sign ought to become discouraged or abolished.
Shooters typically choose targets based on personal connection and/or the people they are targeting.
I imagine that there is some truth to this, but lets say that there was a shooting at a school. If you arm the teachers and advertise this, then shooters will have to think twice before committing a shooting. Even if they decide to commit one (which I probably think will happen anyways, I think shooters want to die and have given up on life), then the amount of kids they kill will be low due to the arming of teachers shooting in defense of themselves and their children.
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@secularmerlin
This easily could be due to other factors, like states with tough gun laws coincidentally also tend to have a high GDP per capita, and rich people are less likely to commit homicide. Cities which tend to have tough gun laws, tend to have a high GDP per capita by coincidence, but despite this, they also have higher homicide rates then poor rural areas, despite being richer.
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@secularmerlin
Perhaps the secret is to keep guns out of the hands of as many potential mass shooters (aka the general public) as possible.
Most public people don't want to commit mass shootings, just like most Muslims don't want to do terror attacks. If you ban guns, criminals will get them illegally and will use them to commit homicide against people that can't defend themselves. This is why when Jamaica banned their guns, their homicide rate skyrocketed.
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@secularmerlin
To call a venue where a gun was present "gun free" is logically incoherent.
Gun free venues are in theory supposed to be gun free, but school shooters don't follow the law. All gun free zones do is disarm good people, making them easy targets for shooters.
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@secularmerlin
If guns deter violence then why do all mass shooting involve guns?
If gun free zones work, then why are most schools gun free zones and shootings are so common there, that there is a term called, "school shooting" instead of, "gun store shooting"?
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@TheRealNihilist
Islam as in most of their believers are not violent.Guns are primarily used for violence.
Guns are primarily used for protection and homicide is from a percentage standpoint, very small, just like terrorist attacks. A typical gun will almost never get shot unless it's for hunting or target shooting.
Calling me an anarchist is an ad hominid attack. I believe in few rules.
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A tiny portion of them commit homicide. Only a tiny portion. The US ought to treat Muslims the same way we treat guns on the basis of terrorism/shootings.
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