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Cogent_Cognizer

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@Wylted
Fair enough. I was doing that to an extent, as well.
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@Wylted
I know man... I'm aware of WIFOMe.

Shit... But why did you change your VTL then if you're convinced he is scum?

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Granted, he only started to make more scum tells after I had suggested the idea there could be lynch-related roles.

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@Wylted
You seem overly concerned with self preservation. Why?

This is a very fair point. A townsperson wouldn't care as much for that, given well, 1-2 or 3 townspeople are guaranteed to die, but can still win as a team.

Alright, I think you've legit made my suspicsions about you, Wylted, disappear. I still stand with my VTNL though. I get it's super obvious he is scum, but I just can't stop thinking about the possibility of the amount of reverse psychology he could be using. 

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@Wylted
I agree that's the mission, but if we completely ignore the idea of preventing town deaths, that could easily lead to scum victory.

I mean, we are going to have at least like 4 day phases probably. We don't need to complete the mission in one day, and we literally can't.

If we start lynching and it's a townsperson, wouldn't you start second-guessing yourself about your reasoning so far? We shouldn't second-guess ourselves. We need more clarity/surety.

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Oh, seems I just earned my second silver badge lol

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We have an absurdly large town pool. It would be dumb not to lynch. 

That's weird reasoning. I argue the opposite. If we have such a large townpool, we may need to let one die in order to find more info. I mean, if we're wrong, then we lynch a townsperson and the scum kill one. Then it's not so large anymore. No matter what we do, scum kill one townsperson. We shouldn't allow the opportunity of two townspeople being killed. DP1 is too risky, imo.

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@Discipulus_Didicit
I am going to re read the DP tomorrow with special attention to Supa, Warren, and PressF4.

I am likely to do that too, unless one of them end up dead by mafia lol.

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@Discipulus_Didicit
Here is some info you may not be aware of... Town is not told who is on their team, therefore if someone votes for town it does not necessarily mean " You voted for town to eliminate a town player because you are scum". It could instead mean "You voted for town because you thought he was scum"

Food for thought.
I am aware of this. I'm also aware that scum wouldn't want to be one of the last people to jump on the bandwagon, as that's a tell. So, a wiser move would be to be one of the first people to suggest VTL, or in the middle. 

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But yeah, you guys can hold me to a promise of a VTL on dp2. I just have too much paranoia or doubt to do this on DP 1 lol
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I'd also like to remind everyone, losing one townsperson is not a big deal.  We way outnumber mafia. I think it would be wiser to wait it out and get more info from NP1. 
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You know what though, yeah, I hate lynching on day one. I really don't think there's ever enough info. 

Very well...

Unvote
VTNL

This is definitely my final vote. Went back to where I started, should have just stuck to it since I really don't like the idea of lynching on day 1. Odds are more likely we are going to have 2 townspeople killed, as we could all simply be wrong about PressF or whoever we think is obviously scum, I know it seems obvious he is guys, but I'm not willing to take this risk on DP1. It's too great to do this on DP1, I'd rather participate in VTL's starting the next day phase. I almost feel like we need a townsperson to die to get more info. Plus, certain roles we have could reveal more info too at night.

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@PressF4Respect
Well, like in OSDM, when ignored, I tend to take all of us down. Everyone should go see that, by the way. 

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@PressF4Respect
No, I haven't forgotten about that it's just being ignored for the most part by everyone else, so I don't really know what else I can do.

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@PressF4Respect
Oh, forgot to specifically say that to press... look at comment  342

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Did you seriously forget about what you just said?

To what are you referring?
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@warren42
Btw Wylted is obvious town here
It seems too obvious though. That's my concern. Perhaps I'm just being paranoid like you said though lol. But I've played mafia/werewolf many atime where someone who we all agreed were obviously town, turned out not to be lol. 

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The main thing I'm concerned with, is that I'm not entirely certain how everyone plays here. I think I have a hang of forum mafia, the issue is I don't know the pattern of how each of you play. I've had that OSBM game as my first forum mafia, but that works fundamentally different from any regular mafia, so I can't assume people would use similar strategies there and now. 

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@warren42
It seems like a really pathetic attempt for him to buddy Cogent because he uses thee same language Cogent C/P-ed from that mafia guide.
It doesn't make sense to buddy me though. Unless he suspects I'll be lynched next round and PressF is mafia. Since I've been somewhat defending them, I suppose that would look bad on me, perhaps he thinks I'd be the next lynch victim. But that would be some really early buddying. 

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So, let's get firm evidence out here then. Lynch press. If he is confirmed as a townsperson, we can know the people who jumped on lynching him, namely Wylted and such, are likely mafia even more. 

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@warren42
Well, the thing is, PressF is the obvious scum choice. Should they actually be town, this serves as an obvious choice for the real scums to lynch a townsperson. 

Additionally, PressF is even more new to forum mafia than I am. Given this, I consider it very likely he could have simply made a mistake. 

But, since I want this to move along, I'll hop on that bandwagon of lynching PressF.

Unvote
VTL PressF4Respect

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Anyways, I'm sticking with the idea doing myself a Chester Bennington.

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Am I the only one who deciced to read through the resources? Lol

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I mean, that would explain his behavior with lying, etc, makes him an obvious lynch target. You guys seem to be stuck in this black-and-white thinking about Mafia. Dude, there's literally dozens of strategies, many unorthodox, you guys aren't even considering.

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You guys seem to want to lynch Pressf4respect right off the bat without even considering he could literally win from it if he's a Mime or Jester....but don't listen to me about VTNL'ing I guess. 
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There are also lynch-related roles, by the way. I mean, any number of roles would incentivise me to be lynched, same for PressF4respect.

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But yeah, be sure to read through possible roles. I could be lynch-proof, I could be someone who kills someone else when lynched, etc. 

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@Discipulus_Didicit
What the hell? What is with all the self-voting? get your heads out of your asses please. Nobody is trying to lynch either of you assholes. Get your shit together.

It's an unorthodox strat. There are a few roles who wouldn't care about being lynched. If I am, it confirms to you I'm town.
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@oromagi
did u character claim?

Not specifically. I've said that my character doesn't come from either of the Americas. You want me to say specifically who I am?
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I was going to leave right away, but I have one last comment before my 8-10 hour leave... 
Did I just start a trend to vote for oneself to be lynched? LMAO
Alright, talk to y'all in that time.

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@Discipulus_Didicit

Wait, why are you voting for yourself?



Read more of my comments. You may have to figure that out.


At any rate, I'll be gone for the next 8-12 hours maybe. So I should be back near the end of this day phase.
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Townspeople:

It's a win-win situation here. If I'm scum, and you lynch me, that brings down the minority in the group even smaller, making you more likely to win. 

However, if I'm a townsperson, you pretty much will have this as further evidence to determine who is scum.

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Unvote
VTL Cogent_Cognizer

Let's lynch me guys, and see how it turns out.
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If you guys lynch me and I turn out to be a townsperson, or mafia NK's me, take that as further confirmation of what I said above.
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I'd just like to remind everyone of some tips from more experienced players, and it's generally true. So from the third resource that bsh1 provided, it says:

The first category of tells comes from the fact that mafia already know who the town are. What does this mean in practice? When townies read posts, they immediately start trying to figure out whether it is comes from town or mafia. They cannot help but treat the game like a puzzle that has to be solved. When mafia read posts, on the other hand, they already know whether said posts come from town or mafia. They know the solution to the puzzle. Hence, they have to consciously fabricate analysis to create the illusion that they are looking for answers just like the townies.

So with that in mind.... who right now is trying the hardest at trying to figure out who townspeople are? See comments  219-222 of mine on page 9 for who I think it is, and be sure to read over how those players have been acting.

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You guys are really going to base VTL's off of what you think the one person in this game does who can't give us any clues?
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Ok, why are people coming to this conclusion that bsh1 would put unattractive people in with the scum and attractive people with the town?

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pls sign change.org petition to bring back RationalMadman to debateart
Ah... That's actually sad. I had just joined not too long ago and he was the first one to accept any of my debates.

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pls sign change.org petition to bring back RationalMadman to debateart
He left? Why and when?

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Board game creator, Elizabeth J. Phillips(Lizzie Magie) Rolling in her grave.
I mean, Parker Bros already bastardized The Landlord Game, meant to introduce Georgism in a board game, criticizing landed property, to being pro-capitalist. Now Hasbro seems to have bastardized Monopoly, which was already a bastardization of The Landlord Game, with their new "Monopoly Socialism". Honestly, I feel sorry for Phillips. I bet her amount of rolling is what's caused those earthquakes a while back.

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To clarify what I mean about them not coming together to VTL someone:

If all of the scum come together to VTL, that can reveal all of them, as they would all VTL the same person. However, only Wylted had done so, while the other supposed town members he figured out were town, chose not to hop on his bandwagon. Indeed, one of them voted to bring attention to me, to VTL me, a separate town member, which is a good strategy for scum to do: somewhat split up their votes to avoid suspicion. 

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Furthermore, these three didn't all come together to VTL someone(which is something mafia would take a precaution), but these three made this mistake of associating themselves and desperately finding who is town to the point of desperately wanting to make us believe they are town.



Unvote

VTL Wylted

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Wylted comment #193 on page 8:

I assume 3 based on 12 player games bsh1 has created in the past. If bsh1 has bought into 3 being too high of a number he may have hedged a bit by making it 2 scum and one solo win third party. Most likely 3 scum though

Wylted comment #197 on page 8:

I know me grey parrot and disc are town Nd by the end of the dp I will move more into town or scum blocks. 50% is a conservative estimate. When it is said and done the true likelihood of hitting scum will probably be above 75.65% 
Note they say they assume 3 mafia, and name a total of 3 people on their team, whom he claims are "town". 

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Very well, here's my first official read of DP1 messages:


Wylted and Disc seem especially eager to find out who is town. Too much so, to the point that it's over-doing it. Note how sure Wylted is of who is on their side in comment 197 of page 8. Disc, he lists on his side, who is now VTL'ing me, despite that I'm acting cautios - as someone on the town side would. Why would they claim so much certanty who is on their team, everyone? This is Mafia. Elaborate planning, to make us think they are on one side is much easier in a forum where we can't see their body language. 

But, it is very obvious they are acting extremely desperate to find out who is town - no town member would be that desperate to the point of trying to convince so hard, on merely DP1, that a few people are town. Note the small group Wylted has claimed to be town thus far: about the same amount of people who would be scum. 

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@Discipulus_Didicit
Having played both in person mafia and forum mafia I would like to point out that this is a blatant falsehood.
Well, I wouldn't know, as I said:

This could simply be because I'm rather new to forum mafia, perhaps I'm being too cautious with it.



I would like you to give me your reads on all the players have come on so far so that I might be able to take my vote off you.
How in the world is it logical to vote for someone because they've not given their reads on everyone else yet? But sure, give me some time to look at each again and carefully. 

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This could simply be because I'm rather new to forum mafia, perhaps I'm being too cautious with it. Nonetheless, most communication occurs vis-a-vis. 
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@Wylted
Not sure why CC thinks you can't hunt behaviorally

I would err a little more on the side of caution, particularly with this being a forum mafia. I can't imagine it being the same as in-person mafia. If I was able to see facial expressions, body language, etc, I would be much more wanting to VTL on dp1. It's easier to deceive online. 

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Furthermore, I want to speak more about those scenarios. Mafia almost never ends up exactly like any of those scenarios. No smart group would continually Lynch or choose not to lynch in each DP. It's far too risky to do that. It's best to do a combination strategy that doesn't fit in either of those three scenarios you're oversimplifying Mafia to be about. 

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But yeah, if you carefully analyze what I've said so far, I definitely have soft claims going on here. So, you are quite plainly either lying and trying to make people think I've not given much info, or you're not very good at recognizing what I've said so far as helping progress the game.

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@Discipulus_Didicit
I'm not even suggesting scenario 1, I merely want a VTNL for DP1 and each round after we can start VTL'ing people. What makes you think I'm not playing just because I want to VTNL? I've said much so far, and I've been reading through the comments. VTNL, in no way, means that I'm not trying to figure out who is who.

I just recognize that choosing to VTL has a higher likelihood of getting someone who is on the town side. The town always has more people on it than scums. The chances are, we will be helping scums. 

If everyone here has read through the suggestions of game play, strategy, or are simply good with the game, they may be specifically trying different soft claims and strategies to indicate they are on one team or another.

There's literally no reason for me to suspect any particular person is or isn't town, unless I'm mafia, of course. Regardless, it's both smart for mafia and the town to VTNL.

Due to there's a higher chance a town member will VTL a fellow town member, they have no reason to do this right now. As for the mafia, it's not a good idea for them to VTL either given it makes one seem like Mafia.

You seem to be obviously outing yourself as mafia since only they would be interested in a VTL at this stage.



And yeah, DP1 is useful, as it brings out some claims upfront. But these claims are useless until we have more info(again, unless I or you are scum)

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