Cogent_Cognizer

Though, if need be, I suppose I could given this is anonymous, but I feel like that would be distracting

No, I am just a perfectionist generally. I can offer a sob story on why, but that's not relevant here precisely lol. 

Ah, my bad. I had read through this, but there's a lot of info to remember. Thanks for the clarification though.

Plus, I don't suspect Disc nearly as much now given my impression was Wylted and he were both trying the same strategy, and likely on the same team due to that.

Yeah, he was the other person I considered highly likely to be scum. Though, I don't want to vote immediately this time only because I keep changing my vote and don't want to do that again if I determine my thinking was in error previously lol. 

True, I suppose.

You can delete either comment 99 or 98. I didn't mean to post twice, something went funky.

Um, somehow posted the same thing twice. If permitted I'm going to delete one, this isn't a dirty-delete obviously, lol. Just want everyone to see it being there and then I'll delete. Or maybe BSH1 should.

I'm a bit more inclined to consider those pieces of evidence, like that one, which indicate he's likely town. I do promise, and I've held to my promises so far about my final vote,that I am not going to final vote Wylted(hence I unvoted). I'd rather do someone else I suspect is mafia now, and may or may not come back to wylted at a future time.

I'm a bit more inclined to consider those pieces of evidence, like that one, which indicate he's likely town. I do promise, and I've held to my promises so far about my final vote,that I am not going to final vote Wylted(hence I unvoted). I'd rather do someone else I suspect is mafia now, and may or may not come back to wylted at a future time.

Yeah, I'm sorry, sometimes I over-think things. Willing to hear you out on why the 5 are town you got good town reads on, I presume me as one of them. What's your reason for the other 4?

I see two other possibilities here besides Wylted being double-voter from the start:

1) He may have had the role mimic, which if he does, I'd ask the original double voter(who chose not to double vote for whatever reason) to reveal themselves by double-voting today.

2) He may have been role-stealer... which if so and he's mafia, town is fairly screwed.

Assuming, again, this wasn't a mistake on bsh1's part.

Yes, I recognize it can be bad if we reduce them. Usually my policy is we forego DP1, and every day phase after we lynch. 

I get your concern, but you must understand why I have much releuctance to VTL on dp1, especially since we did what I feared we would do: lynch a townperson and get 2 townspeople killed in one day/night round. 

But yeah, once BSH makes this confirmation, I'm ready to apologize to you for accusations so far against you. It was honestly a mistake that I didn't notice you were counted twice if that was intentional by BSH.

But I do wish to point out, I think it's very likely Wylted has double-voter, given they are not particularly concerned about townspeople dying in DP1. This is the only explanation I can think of that would explain his lack of caring for townspeople to die early and wants that moderate reward of lynching mafia early. 

I suppose we'll find out when and if BSH reveals to us it was not a mistake to include Wylted twice for votes. 

I don't understand why you think we should lynch every dp. As you pointed out, WIFOM can be occuring in DP1, we don't know who is telling the truth, who is using reverse psychology, etc, given we have no information unless we are mafia. Regardless of whether town lynches or not, Mafia gets to kill someone on NP1. There's no "preventing" it really. So by dp2, we are guaranteed one townperson to die.

VTLing has a higher likelihood of lynching town members if we assume the rules in WIFOM that we can't trust anyone's words in DP1(given no evidence is there for town). And I don't see the reward of killing one mafia for 1 townperson rewarding enough in DP 1. It's best to keep as many townspeople alive upfront, and get evidence revealed in later rounds, preferably by the third round, so that at that point, Town for sure knows who is mafia, and they correctly vote for mafia every subsequent round. I consider having correct vtl's more important than taking the huge risk in DP1 to have a somewhat good reward. 

But yeah, if you would be so kind to explain if Wylted being listed twice in the final vote was a mistake or not, that is if you can and are willing. 

I should be asking if *you* know WIFOM, because you voted wrongly and thought it was a good idea to vote in DP1

Of course I do. Hence I VTNL'd last round to get more evidence. Then I can figure out who is actually using reverse psychology, reverse reverse, etc.

Why do you think VTNL'd? I needed more evidence. I do not at all like to Vote on dp1, ever, for that exact reason.

Lol, I agree with your sentiment, but there's no way to prevent dirty-edits(i.e if someone does a slip, and then edits it to prove to others they didn't say it even though they did)

I mean, it does considering Mafia wants us to think they are town, and the only person who came off as obvious mafia, turned out to be town.

If you turn out to be town, which I'm suspecting you to be now given the likelihood of you being a double-voter, I've put you in my unsure category now.

So what reasons do you have to suspect Oro(who is now speed)?

Fair, I suppose this is something BSH1 wouldn't reveal to be a mistake or to be done purposely.

Still, the suspicion is there that you're a double-voter.

Dude, you're not making this easy on you. If you claimed to be double voter, I'd believe you given I wouldn't think BSH1 would make a mistake like this.

My Disc theory primarily revolved around you being mafia, given you both were actively trying to establish yourselves as firmly town before.

Also, if you're freaking double-voter, why didn't you reveal this in this phase? That would have immediately made me think twice about lynching you lol.

I think I need to unvote for now until this is settled. I can't imagine anyone putting a double voter on the mafia team, I don't think that would be balanced unlesss there are only two scum.

Anyone played with Double-Voters before? Are they typically town or mafia?

If this wasn't a mistake on BSH1's part, this means that Wylted is a double-voter(an actual role in the source material)

I was going to point out how Wylted voted for the guy accused of buddying for me, likely to point out another scum-like action of an actual town member, but now I'm not sure what his final vote was. Let me take a look.

So, here's a little more to add to my theory.

Here's how the final vote count turned out from DP1, for anyone wanting to see it:

Wait a minute. I just noticed something here, how is Wylted counted twice? Did anyone else notice this? (I didn't add this in, go look on page 20, BSH1's comment #499(at bottom of page). 
Was this a mistake on your part @bsh1 ?

But yeah, my current reads for who are mafia are as follows:

Most likely: Wylted and Disc. I'm sticking to the theories I came up with in DP1, it should be pages 7-8 where I came up with those. Wylted is particularly looking guulty in that he's trying so hard to defend himself and attack my theories, where the smarter defense if he's not mafia would be to admit my theories have some truth to them, and point out something I missed that would indicate there's more to the theory that could exonerate him. It's a much better psychological move to give some credence to a person's mafia theory when there's clear evidence some of it defintiely was true(given I turned out correct to conclude that Press was town)

Moderately likely: Grey(fits in with my theories again, but not as clearly)

Assuming there are only 3 mafia members, these are most likely them.

But anyways, sorry, you shouldn't talk about this like as if you you're old role anyways. 

Ah, ok. Yeah, I had this worry before that I somehow had this "C" character you were referring to and didn't know it.

Wait, so my role was supposed to be used in conjunction with his?

Fair enough. I suppose as long as Speed wasn't given any result of a potential night action he had, then this may not have any unfairness to it. The thing is, if he was given the results of his potential night action(not sure what a Visitor does), then he has knowledge the rest don't and he's not supposed to be able to use that. No matter how hard anyone tries, I can't imagine them being completely impartial and disregard what their night action did. 

Yeah, as I said I'm happy to vote for either Wylted or Disc. Note how Wylted didn't choose disc as his partner and someone else. Likely he picked a town member to suggest. I agree with you. 

I was clearly proving a point. Since both he and I were under suspicion at one point, I voted for myself and him as a means to draw people away from us. Read the contextual clues leading up to my vote to him. 

All of my votes after my first VTNL were to prove a point. I said in the original vote of mine I wouldn't change it. And technically I stood by my word by ending with a VTNL. So yeah, those votes I have other than VTNL, I promise were for strategic reasons

Desparately* sorry I'm on mobile and for some reason my phone didn't recognize the word desperately and auto corrected to separately lol

Somehow I am to believe that as a new member to forum mafia, I'm more correct than an experienced player. How could you be so wrong if Not the explanation that you're separately trying to be town from the beginning and wanted to VTL the one town member who messed up since it would be easy to convince the real town members to vote? 

My line of reasoning was reasonable back then and it obviously is more so now given we know for a fact he was town

To be fair, you said it was obvious Press was Mafia, he was not obviously.

You have reason to believe Disc is mafia as well, right? Let me here your reasons, perhaps you also saw additional info I haven't.

In the mean time, I'll unvote again, and I need to determine which of those two to vtl.

Either way though, I'm happy to vote for either Wylted or Disc at this point. 

Ok, I hate to have to retract something I said, but after a rule clarification with BSH1, I have all the reason to suspect Wylted. My old theory from DP1 does hold for the time being. I would put a very small chance Wylted is not mafia. 

That being the case, 

UNVOTE

VTL WYLTED

VTL*

I wish to reiterate my points from DP1 comments #201, 219-21, Warren’s 322 comment(which now you have the answer as to why I was defending Press, right guys?) my 326-27 comment, 329-330(altercation between me and warren about Supa buddying me, which I’m pretty much confirmed Town now, so I’m a good buddy-target), Disc continually fought with my idea that Press was too obviously mafia, and an easy mafia target(see comment 357 in particular, but others too, which wylted also attacked my theories in comments 376, 378, which turned out to be true theories, given Press was town), and then in 435 where Wylted said to NK pie to Grey(another person I originally suspected to be mafia as well). Last, but not least, despite being correct, both Wylted and Disc continually implied I was new and could be wrong to use the strategies I was.

Please be sure to read through those comments I mentioned in particular, and also the first few pages where I based my theory from about Press being an obvious candidate for Mafia to demand to be lynched. Although it looks like Wylted is guilty here, he is the next too obvious choice and I have reason to believe, due to what occurred in NK1, that he is not mafia. Additionally, Mafia will have reason to VTL him.

That said, I VTL Disc He seems somewhat obvious, but not too obvious to be mafia given the above reasoning and comments I pointed to.


I rest my case now. Maybe next time I’ll be listened to as it pertains to lynching people on DP1. But I get people have to learn by experience. Just don’t do it again.

Some additional info about me: first, I already stated in DP1 that my character is neither born nor lives in either of the American continents. But, he is currently living(and yes, is male). Furthermore, he lives in the UK or a former colony of the UK, to further narrow him down. So, since he is not from or living in the Americas, you can cross off the US and Canada, even though both were former UK colonies. That leaves the former African colonies of the UK, England, Scotland, Ireland, Wales, Gibraltar, Australia, India, New Zealand, Hong Kong, etc.


And Finally, given that the Mafia chose Speed, whoever he was asking for about "C", probably best not to reveal yourself at this point.

I'll post another comment soon about more reads on people, and further justification for FTL'ing Disc.

Hmm, I see what you mean. I have to say I did end up skipping through many episodes due to it feeling forced. I might be biased due to that since I specifically watched episodes where it did seem more natural or the episodes were just interesting/entertaining(I don't foresee myself skipping any borg episodes, for example lol). So, yeah, if I'm being more honest with myself, I think I agree with you on that. I can't think of an instance in The Orville where it came off as unnatural. I think I'm just having cognitive dissonance in that I don't want to admit Star Trek may not be as good as I loved it as a child. You know, it's almost a family identity to me given the intergenerational passing down of start trek in my family lol.

Dang it, there are too many. Star v Forces of Evil is one I may need to put there somewhere... this is too difficult lol.