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@Greyparrot
Yeah twitter is so horrifyingly bad that Trump and his cult are having an epic meltdown over his removal.
Thank god there are so many better alternatives like government officials and administrations to tell us the truth.
You make another excellent point as usual :D And it's totally on topic too! How very on brand.
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@Greyparrot
"YES, GIRL. PREACH!" as they say.
I forgot to add that if China owns Google then China should be the one who dictates what Google has to publish.
Or maybe our government should dictate since the Chinese government can't be trusted to not be tyrants but our politicians can be trusted.
Oh wait, no we can't trust government authority. So we have to trust Google's authority. Oh wait no those are the tyrants. Wait I'm confused.
OH RIGHT ONLY DONALD TRUMP CAN BE TRUSTED ugh duh stupid me for forgetting. Never mind. Thinking is hard.
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@Greyparrot
You are 100% right. The way to FiGhT aUtHoRiTy is to criminalize a private business being able to publish whatever they want.
The government should have to force private businesses to comply with what government says. You are so god damn wise.
And you know what else? People should be able to rent an apartment in a house they own to someone from Guatemala (or hire them for a job at their company) without needing the GoVeRnMeNtS aPpRoVaL. Why do they need government papers? Is this Nazi Germany? Fuck authority. I'm so sick of these tyrants trying to regulate commerce and where people live or work and trade. Fuck authorityYyyYYyy. Freedom to all! No regulation necessary, especially from the most empowered tyrants of all - government! I know you agree with this entirely so sorry for preaching to the choir.
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@ILikePie5
Since inciting violence is a crime, explain how a prosecutor would argue that Kathy Griffin holding a sculpture of Trump's head would qualify as being guilty of that crime. I would love to hear this.
As an aside, which Dems called for unrest in the streets? By "unrest" I assume you mean destruction or murder since the Trump cult was calling to hang Mike Pence as they marched toward him with zip ties and planted bombs around the RNC and DNC. I also assume you're talking about high profile Democrats -- like politicians (even though none are as powerful as the president) since all the people calling for blood on twitter haven't been removed; they're still there. Just the president has been removed since he is the cult leader. What is the BLM/Democrat cult leader equivalent you're thinking of that is analogous to this? I remember someone saying they might post bail but forget who. It reminded me of during the 2016 campaign when Trump said he would post bail for people who hit others in his defense as well, but I digress.
Anyway back to Kathy Griffin. Let's say you are a prosecutor. Make that case for me.
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@Dr.Franklin
Yes. For example there was a federal lawsuit a few years ago in Indiana when a lesbian married coupled sued to have both their names listed on their child's birth certificate. The Iowa Department of Public Health refused to allow the non-birth mother to be listed, saying she was not the biological parent. However Iowa law states that if a mother is married, her husband must be recorded as the father on the birth certificate -- even if it was physically impossible for him to have been the biological father.
IOWs the law allowed non-biological parents to be listed on the birth certificate if the couple was married and straight, but not married and gay. This was therefore ruled unconstitutional so the law had to be changed and therefore the verbiage of legal documents and statues could be changed to reflect that. Under some antiquated wording or interpretations, the couple's daughter would not have been recognized as having the same legal status and protection from both parents that other children have. And the non-biological mother's parental rights were not being recognized. So language like mother vs. guardian in official documents can be important.
In 2016 several lesbian couples in Mississippi won their legal challenge against the state's ban on gay adoption. So now documents that reference a child's "father" or "parent" may not apply to those families, because technically there is no father or parent. In a lot of cases children are being raised by grandparents or other guardians. A lot of time insurance companies don't want to provide coverage based on technicalities of things like that. I could look up more or better, specific examples if I weren't busy at work atm. But yes a lot of these things have been challenged in court.
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@Conway
The locations of the company's HQs have nothing to do with the audience the publications service or target.
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I fully and 100% support banning Parler and Trump's twitter account. First, it is important to note that despite the false claims by Trump Jr. et. al, there is absolutely no first amendment violation at play. Nobody has a right to utilize platforms like Twitter or Google. Business discrimination is permissible so long as it is not predicated on a legally protected class. But of course just because something is legal does not mean it is justified. However, it is easy to argue that banning Trump and Parler from big tech platforms is perfectly justified.
Not only have Trump and Parler repeatedly violated the terms of service of the platforms that have hosted them, they have arguably used these platforms to facilitate breaking the law. It is entirely possible that Trump could be charged with the crime of inciting violence, in which case these platforms may not feel it is ethical or legal to potentially help him do so. For instance is reported that the tweet which prompted twitter to remove Trump's account is the one where he clarified he would not be attending Joe Biden's inauguration; it was a not so subtle way of telling his violently agitated supporters that they are welcome to attack the event without Trump being in danger.
This is far from being unlikely and it could easily be seen as the intent of his tweet. Just minutes after Giuliani told a crowd of Trump supporters that we should have a "trial by combat," which they celebrated and cheered, Trump told his cult followers to storm the capitol and said he would join them (he didn't) where they proceeded to chant "hang Mike Pence" while frothing at the mouth before scaling the wall + busting open windows at the Capitol building after being let in by some police.
We have seen the president attempt to stage a failed coup which he was reportedly happy about according to sources from inside the White House. We have seen the president utilize social media platforms to peddle false conspiracy theories which threaten the republic and have people calling for civil war, despite the alleged justification proven to have been demonstrably false after investigations. We have routinely seen the president disparage these very platforms he relies on and uses for free, attempting to regulate them into submission despite allegedly being "pro freedom" and "anti authoritarian" which his supporters are obviously too dull to notice is contradictory. And we have seen the president show no culpability or remorse for any of the damage he continues to cause, including getting some incredibly misguided follower(s) of his shot over his massive lie.
Despite this, and despite twitter warning him about potentially losing his posting privileges if he continued to fan the flames of a bloodthirsty mob, the insanely narcissistic Mr. Trump simply could not help himself. He ignored twitter's warnings -- just like Parler ignored Apple and Google's repeat warnings of TOS violations -- and as a result he was FINALLY removed.
Now keep in mind when libertarians and conservatives insist we don't need government regulation, it's because they say the market will regulate itself. The market will weed out the bad apples, right? That's why they are perfectly okay with a Christian baker not baking a gay wedding cake. They insist it is the baker's right to discriminate based on their beliefs, and they say that the market will punish them through boycotts and slander. Well here it is, folks! LIBERTARIANS, REJOICE. We can see the market at work just like you said it would. These private platforms have acted in defense of their deeply held beliefs (among other things I just mentioned above) without the government being able to force them to host these potential criminals.
Or... do "anti authoritarian" conservatives and libertarians suddenly have concerns about private businesses discriminating? o_O HMM. Interesting that the Law and Order enthusiasts would get up in arms (literally, no pun intended) over a private company silencing criminals but will defend to the death the right for bigots to discriminate against people who love someone of the same sex.
Anyway fuck Trump, fuck Parler, and god help the poor people that have been manipulated into supporting them.
The most amusing posts are the ones insisting CONSERVATIVE VOICES ARE BEING SILENCED from right-wing pundits and accounts with huge platforms like Fox News, Breitbart, and a bunch of other demented "pro patriot" sources. It's too much.
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@Dr.Franklin
The "Amen" thing is stupid, but I don't have a problem with removing gendered language from official documents.
You'd be surprised how many issues and subsequent lawsuits arise from having words like "mother" instead of "parent" or "guardian."
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@n8nrgmi
He obsesses over "trusting authority" but won't call out the brainwashed simpletons who worship a cult of personality lol 🥴
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I don't know if we should lynch drafter. Unless the mafia started with 3 people (which I can't see with a TP) it would be bastard of Bullish to mod kill that1user if s/he were scum. That means s/he's probably town so we're likely down a townie today, and if drafter is town that would be 2 townies down. Considering we didn't lynch last DP, it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world if we mislynched but I don't feel strongly enough about him to risk it. I have notes about each player and drafter currently has the same number of plusses (town tells) and minuses (potential scum factor) in my opinion.
Does anyone feel strongly about lynching today and if so, who? Make a quick case or let's vtnl.
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@ILikePie5
Stalker is the Mafia version of RolecopHooker is the Mafia version of RoleblockerIs it just me that sees this connection?
Warren is claiming to be the crime of stalking but the role of tracker. He isn't claiming role cop, so it's not exactly analogous.
I agree there's no reason for you to claim unless nobody wanted to lynch anyone else. It looks like several people want to vote for drafter. I'm on the fence.
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@Speedrace
I think I believe warren. In an earlier post he said he would sus Luna except for the fact that Luna was RB and there was no NK. Unless warren is scum with Luna, it wouldn't make sense for him to defend Luna in this way and try to pick out townies. warren also seemed to readily believe drafter's claim (again not that role verification = alignment verification) indicating he is probs telling the truth about tracking him. And the claim does make sense. Out of the two of them warren seems more town.
Do you think we have enough time to pressure Pie? It wouldn't make sense unless he signs on.
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@Speedrace
Out of curiosity, why do you so readily believe the claim? We already knew drafter role blocked Lunatic.
My only concern is that he prefaced his claim by saying "hopefully I can replace Supa" but that assumes he gets NK by scum and that the mod isn't going to replace Supa tonight which would be bastard AF. I'm pretty sure warren realizes the idea that he can replace Supa is a long shot but nonetheless I don't see that claim as any more scummy than drafter's. Are you keeping your vote on him?
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@ILikePie5
@Speedrace
We need to not split the vote count. Drafter and warren both have two votes. We already have drafter's full claim. Confirm if you are voting drafter for death or if you wanna pressure someone else for a full claim. The only viable pressure at this point is warren IMO. Personally I'd prefer a claim from him cuz I'm 50-50 on drafter.
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Also I bread crumbed my role already but doubt scum can figure it out... especially if they didn't figure out drafter's role (in the instance he's town).
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Btw voting for full claim just because a character claim would be useless. At that point we'd have a bunch of character claims and then just argue over who to pressure for a full claim which we don't have time for.
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@warren42
Damn I thought we had all day today and all day tomorrow but it looks like the DP ends at midnight "tonight."
I don't think voting for you was opportunistic; almost everyone else that's here had posted today.
I'm confident Supa is town. My crime is also a legitimate crime. At this point we only have one role claim outed so we need to build a wagon sufficient enough to get at least one more before deciding who to lynch. Two might be ideal though I'm not sure we'll have the time. I'm here until 5 pm and then might be off for a bit. I'm not even sure I'll be playing Mafia tonight cuz I'm really not feeling well. This injury fucked me the fuck up. But if I do wind up signing on for Discord mafia then obviously I'll be here.
We have about 6 hours left. Unvoting and vtl warren for full claim just because I think it's incredibly weird (useless) for him to be voting that1user right now, and scum is incentive to waste another day phase.
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@drafterman
> votes on drafterman: everyone piles on; almost mishammered> votes on speed: crickets
This lacks context. People added to your wagon cuz you refused to claim after saying your role wasn't that useful to town.
And if it's true that nobody was online (I wasn't) then no votes on Speed isn't noteworthy at all, so why note it?
Speed had 3/5 votes on him from you + Luna and whiteflame so I'd hardly call that crickets given the activity level in this game so far. But please clarify: if you believe nobody is voting Speed because he might be scum, then why are you voting for whiteflame who is one of two people joining you on voting for Speed?
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I just signed on to note that I took a sick day from work, so probs won't be online much since I don't have to sit at the computer. But it looks like I didn't need to be concerned about missing much. I genuinely am not feeling well so I'll get on when I can.
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@drafterman
I gave my justification already and I I vote lunatic because I got what I wanted.
Your vote isn't on Lunatic, so assuming you meant to say you unvoted him because you got what you wanted, what was it that you wanted? Last I saw in post 182, you were debating with Pie whether or not Corruption was a crime. Were you convinced it is?
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@ILikePie5
The traditional name for a mafia role blocker is Prostitute or Hooker. When the game started, drafter claimed to have a role that utilized the scum name which made sense (I assumed it was Prostitution). I'm just wary about that move now because if it's true there is no theme split, then he can be claiming his real character/role which is perhaps why Bullish didn't feel the need to give fake claims. Ergo drafter could have been trying to earn town cred by claiming immediately, which is contrary to his alleged meta of not claiming upon pressure.
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It's not lost on me that warren did not answer what I specifically asked him and tagged him for.
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@Vader
You can't figure out what those things do? Lol that is very endearing actually.
Well you're town. Who do you want to pressure?
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@warren42
lol @ damn Daniel.
I agree Luna could also be scum. I'm just saying Supa giving him an item doesn't necessarily prove him town (Supa seemed to believe it town confirmed him and/or Luna when it does neither). I now town read Supa a bit more just because it would be a lil bit bastard to give scum a role where they don't know how it works.
Ps. IT'S MEDICINAL
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@ILikePie5
@warren42
Thoughts?
Also I absolutely want warren to answer this from last day phase. He disappeared after I posted: Once again I am wondering the point of you asking me questions about my win con when #1 the OP clarifies that no win con = town, so even if I were scum I'd know how to answer this question and #2 there has already been discussion about how detailed or explicit the roles are to characters. Deciding to go into a deep dive about my PM analysis therefore seems like a waste of time at this point, or a way to look like you're investigating something thoroughly when scum is not going to get caught with these questions. You should have done this with people that posted much earlier. Explain your reason for going along with this line of questioning.
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Drafterman's claim was blatantly obvious from last DP. There are only a handful of "town roles with mafia equivalents" and one of them is HOOKER whereas the others are things like Scout, Lookout, etc. In a themed game about crimes, drafterman was obviously Prostitution. The fact that he wasn't killed when he essentially claimed role blocker yesterday is interesting. More interesting is drafter's willingness to get himself lynched and say that his role wasn't useful to town. That's one of the biggest reasons I voted for him because I thought he was trying to back out of claiming Prostitution.
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@Speedrace
I took it to mean you were saying you found it scummy that he gave Lunatic pot when he doesn't know what the pot does (as in for all he knew he could have been giving Lunatic something negative).
Nonetheless I believe he gave Luna pot and now that Luna confirmed he also doesn't know what the pot does, seems to validate Supa not knowing. I can't see scum having a role where they don't know how it works so that reads town.
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@Speedrace
You literally said that in post #84
"lol but why would Supa claim that. Also I lean to Supa being scum because he doesn't know what the pot does. Dunno why he'd do that as scum"
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@Speedrace
I'm saying why would he claim a roleblocker role as scum
You're the one who said it was scummy that he apparently doesn't know what the pot does. If he legitimately doesn't know then it feels town. Pot isn't a "dangerous drug" so unless it's supposed to make people lazy, I can't see it as a bad thing. I would be concerned if he gave out heroin or meth. Giving out pot seems neutral or lean town.
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It's almost as ridiculous as being outraged by "Happy Holidays"
*shrieks of rage*
BRING BACK CHRISTMAS AND AMEN! Periodt.
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@Speedrace
lol but why would Supa claim that.
Because it adds to one's credibility if they can prove their role. No one can prove their affiliation but proving your role is a lean town point in most people's minds that you have to consider along with other things. I will again defer to Pie as the mafia messenger in a recent game. Fortunately I was killed during the night so I didn't live long enough to "town confirm" him in the day phase after he messaged me because I would have been wrong.
I don't have a read on Supa yet but I just know that I probably did give Luna weed. Luna never mentions weed in everyday life, at least not that I recall.
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I can't edit my last post but just to clarify, pot does not make everyone lazy *takes a hit at 9:21 am*
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@Speedrace
I'm pretty sure Lunatic doesn't smoke weed IRL so he is probably telling the truth, but let me reiterate that Supa giving him weed proves nothing. Supa could easily be scum, especially if there is no theme split and he's the one who was kinda persistent that there was no theme split.
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Lol I didn't even realize we had 5/5 votes but I don't care, I'd hammer. I'm not playing these games.
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@drafterman
Lol, my role is not very powerful for town.
Ok then nvm I misunderstood what I thought your claim was. Now I want your claim and am perfectly willing to lynch you to get it if you insist. Especially if it's not that useful.
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@Speedrace
VTL DraftermanBesides the behavioral stuff, the fact that Drafter said he has a role that mafia can have means mafia had ALL the incentive in the world to kill him because the roles fitting that description are all very powerful for town. Given the fact that he didn't die, either scum didn't bother reading the DP/are bad players, or drafter himself is scum
I don't see anything behavioral that sticks out about drafter, but that is a spot-on point about not killing him. His role to me seems very obvious so the fact that whiteflame and Lunatic keep pushing to get his claim is very weird to me. That's literally why I just asked Lunatic if having drafter's claim will change his mind on drafter's affiliation because I'm pretty sure anyone with a modicum of intelligence can figure out what his claim is. It's like one of two things as far as I can tell.
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@drafterman
Then you must not really want my claim then. If you really want my claim, I've told you how to get it.
It sounds like you are very upset that people do not want to join your vote.
If I may, here is some constructive criticism for how you can get town to join you:
- Don't be so argumentative - you'll alienate the people you're arguing with and everyone else will just tune you out;
- Don't be so defensive - you're not being attacked nearly as much as you think you are and it puts focus on you, taking it away from other people;
- Stop giving a shit about being right - this is a game where a it's a job of a significant part of the player base to undermine you. Stop taking everything as a personal insult and move on.
- Find common ground - If you want scum lynched you need help from other people. So instead of acting like a person that has it all figured out and everyone should just follow your infallible lead, act like a person that needs help from other people. Because you do and you can't win without it.
- Remember that it is a team game - You're on a team, part of an affiliation. You win as a team. You lose as a team. Coming out and saying nothing was your fault and it was everyone else is being a poor team member and is poor sportsmanship.
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@Lunatic
I only remember playing the last two games with drafter where he refused to claim in both and was scum in both. It's true he wasn't concerned with "moving the game along" in those games either, but who WAS concerned with moving the game along last DP? I will have to go back and check.
Apparently drafter was in MCU Mafia so I can go back and look for his "town meta," but he's the kind of player who (intentionally) posts very one-note so he'll be hard to read. I'm looking for logic slips. Are you looking for a claim and will his claim swing you toward his affiliation one way or the other?
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Good morning!!! And I do mean good morning since GA Republicans are getting buried <3
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@Death23
To be honest it's hard for me to "hate" Trump because I genuinely believe he has a personality disorder (narcissism) and it feels weird loathing someone for their mental illness.
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@Dr.Franklin
Nope, wrong again. Ronald Reagan is still so popular among Republicans that Donald Trump continuously referenced Reagan (even attributing fake, made up quotes to him) to try to draw similarities between the two. In fact, the Ronald Reagan Presidential Foundation and Institute actually had to demand that President Trump and the Republican National Committee quit raising campaign money by using Ronald Reagan’s name and likeness.
Trump literally campaigned and raised money using Ronald Reagan's image and legacy. Why would he do that? Do you want me to show you his tweets and campaign emails?
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@ILikePie5
All I know is that Brian Kemp and Brad Raffensberger are gonna have to find a new job starting 2023
STOP IT WITH THE CANCEL CULTURE. I'M TIRED OF PEOPLE BEING CANCELLED FOR THIER VIEWS.
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@Dr.Franklin
So you think Ronald Reagan destroyed the country? He is a more popular president among Republicans than Trump is. Look it up.
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To be clear, Republicans believe that every single election official and every state attorneys general, including in red states, is actively trying to commit fraud. So the voters can't be trusted, the voting machines can't be trusted, the Justice Department can't be trusted, election security can't be trusted, the lower courts can't be trusted, the appellate courts can't be trusted, and the Supreme Court can't be trusted.
But Donald Trump can be trusted.
These people are sick.
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@Dr.Franklin
Go listen to GOP poster child Ronald Reagan and all he did was talk about free trade lol.
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