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@Greyparrot
There's absolutely no way he can ban Muslims from Indonesia because they are not a threat to America.
1 - When Trump campaigned for President, he explicitly asked for a Muslim ban. What he actually called for was "a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what the hell is going on."
2 - His website also explicitly asked for a "Muslim ban" and it wasn't until the WH press secretary was asked about it that it came down. But make no mistake that was Trump's desire and wish as stated in his own words and on the WH website, suggesting Trump and/or his staff was okay with it.
Trump put anti immigrant xenophobes and Islamophobes in his inner circle. He has a long history of Islamophobia since 9/11. He's literally stated we have a "Muslim problem" when he went on Fox News and doubled - nay, tripled down on this rhetoric when asked about it.
He's championed the surveillance of Muslims (which is not remotely libertarian btw - please acknowledge that as MisterChris seems confused).
Trump challenged Obama's claims of being Christian -- and Obama is Christian, not someone who uses the National Guard for pathetically staged photo ops in front of churches he's never entered with an upside down Bible -- and said he would "look into" closing mosques. Again that is not remotely libertarian so please acknowledge that for MC as well. I dunno where his delusions come from.
Trump has championed unconstitutional data bases and god damn religious registries tracking Muslims and warrantless searches of Muslims, including Muslims from AMERICA let alone other countries, so your Indonesia remark is entirely moot. I have no idea why you're trying to pretend Trump is not anti Muslim in general but more importantly, his travel bans were upheld after their revisions. So it appears he can ban Muslims to an extent, and at the very least he sure as shit wants to.
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@Greyparrot
Bill Clinton can choke on his own cock for all I care (and he's probably tried) lol I hate him. I disagreed with him on virtually everything. And I have no idea how he survived Cancel Culture. What a prick.
But yes I know Congress passes laws as per my note in post #85 :) Trump can unilaterally do things like ban immigrants from Muslim countries though, or from travel + the labor force during a pandemic.
Allow me to edit my correction of your poor logic though to make it more accurate: If it was about the "legality" then he would advocate changing the laws to make it easier to immigrate legally. So clearly it's not.
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@Greyparrot
You misspelled illegal.
Cute. If it was about the "legality" then he would change the laws to make it easier to immigrate legally. So clearly it's not.
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@zedvictor4
Thank goodness for the second amendment hey?
You're damn right. I am a gun enthusiast.
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@MisterChris
I see a list of requests but not sure how to accept them. For now what I'll do is click on their profile and accept it there. I just wasn't sure if there was a quicker way. Thanks though!
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@Lunatic
@ILikePie5
@Speedrace
@MisterChris
@Crocodile
One more vote plz
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@secularmerlin
Indeed why not sell something other than cigarettes rather than actively adding to the rate at which humans develop lung cancer and pulmonary disease. Why not sell something other than crude oil if burning it is contributing to a planetside disaster?
Re: oil, it's been found that implementing a lot of Green initiatives often have equal or similarly harmful negative effects on the environment (i.e. mining lithium for electric cars). It's also been found that there is a market for Green products, so capitalism has encouraged the development of new technologies and other things. But I'm not denying the harms of industry on the environment, or the fact that we sell harmful things to people. I'm just presenting a different perspective for the sake of conversation.
Cigarettes can be harmful but they also provide pleasure and therefore satiate demand. There is a cost-benefit analysis to everything. I get the moral concern is whether or not sellers are ethically responsible for promoting something harmful, but I tend to value personal responsibility (I know that gets tricky and there are many influences on our choices). I just think it could lead down a slippery slope otherwise.
People get heart disease from sugar - are bakers evil for selling you delicious cakes? Social media addiction and high use in society has many problems we're discovering as time goes on - should we ban Facebook? Generally society has taken the approach of regulating things that can be harmful, including cigarettes and gas emissions. That seems to be the best approach vs. the alternative of outright bans.
And of course we see a ton of cigarette smoking and gas emissions from China which is not a "capitalist" country per se. I just mean countries with other economic systems can also find the selfish motives of humanity utilize different ways and economic systems to achieve those self-interested ends.
Your idealism is touching but not grounded in reality.
To be clear I'm not being idealistic - I was throwing ideas back at you to see if we could muse further. That's how dialog works. I tend to agree that this is a problem of capitalism; I just dgaf insofar as there are flaws and problems with every system.
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Actually whiteflame unvoted me and voted Speed earlier so it's
VC
BearMan [1/6] Warren
Speedrace[1/6] whiteflame
No Lynch [4/6] Danielle, GreyParrot, BearMan, skittlez09
Speedrace, MisterChris, Crocodile, Lunatic, iLikePie5
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BearMan [1/6] Warren
Danielle [1/6] whiteflame
No Lynch [4/6] Danielle, GreyParrot, BearMan, skittlez09
Speedrace, MisterChris, Crocodile, Lunatic, iLikePie5
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@secularmerlin
It is an oversimplification but it illustrates one of capitalism's largest weaknesses in regards to promoting human welbeing.
I guess that's the biggest weakness of capitalism, but isn't it a little narrowminded? Let's just say that a decline in rape did lead to a decline in rape whistle sales, and now the whistle makers finds themselves "not wanting to reduce rape" so they could sell whistles. Why not just sell something else as opposed to wish for rape? I mean I get the underlying criticism, but in both theory and in practice capitalists are often venture capitalists and make money by investing in other businesses and things . Do you know any very rich people that don't have STOCK and shares in the market for other businesses, or who don't own property which meets the demand of others they rent/sell to, etc? In other words the whistle maker should not "wish for rape" per se but instead invest in other things society may want or need. Maybe they can invest in Ring cameras to deter burglaries as well. Maybe they can invest in companies that make mace or knives. Maybe they can slightly change their business model and invest in music whistles instead. The point is I feel like the criticism is valid but is not so damning of capitalism that it somehow makes capitalism a less useful tool. It has flaws just like every other operating system but it's still one of the best :)
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I at least respect the people who do truly vote for their third party 'throwaway' vote more than those who refuse to vote at all.
If a third party gets 5% of the national popular vote, the Federal Election Commission will classify them as an official minor party, granting them a lump sum of cash for future campaigns. If those small parties started out with a few million instead of having to start from scratch, they could hit the campaign trail running and improve their odds of getting into the debates (unlikely but they could dream). Their goal is to win an even larger share of the vote to fortify the party's place in the American political landscape and improve their chances for future elections. Just saying.
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I agree with this. People don't understand the nature of coalition building either. This is one of many reasons I hate Bernie Bros who expect ideological purity from Democrats, and by purity I mean progressivism. They think all of the more moderate Democrats don't count or don't matter (meanwhile those are the ones winning the presidency for them). Admittedly I used to be of this "fuck the two party system" mindset when I was a hardcore libertarian, but I got wise. Lesser evil voting makes sense.
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@Greyparrot
Why you gotta tease us with your comeliness?
Cuz my personality sucks lol
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@Greyparrot
I would hope the town is pretty stacked.Town has you.
I'm a D cup but don't make me blush :)
Can you vtnl? I get antsy.
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Factoring in my role this could be a pretty stacked town, or one of the investigators is lying.
If there are 3/11 scum players I would hope the town is pretty stacked.
Unvote and VTNL
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@Crocodile
I'll hold off on lynching until speed provides further context
He was kidding but I've explained why I would vote for Speed's claim. Please vote Speed or vote No Lynch.
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@BearMan
Why do you want the DP to end?
Because we've all agreed explicitly or not that we don't want any more claims beyond Speed, and we have enough info for day phase 1. Speed is the only one whose behavior seemed off to me (as opposed to relying on the 'like' thing alone which is not very strong) and I think knowing more about him could help infer reads about other people. So he's the only one I'm willing to vote for. In that case we might as well move the game along. Please vote No Lynch.
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@BearMan
The claim was a joke and you acknowledged it. I don't think Speed is scum.
Okay please vote No Lynch then
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@BearMan
Are you voting Speed or no lynch?
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@Crocodile
tell me what happened while i reread legit 9 pages
No need. Speed confessed to being scum in post #437! That's all you need to know! Vote Speed! Either that or No Lynch. Make a decision one way or the other though so it forces everyone else to make a decision too :)
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@Speedrace
I am scum and I concede the game.
lol
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@Lunatic
I'd say if we end up going no lynch, you should probably lynch me instead,
That's probably true but I was hoping you would imply your role was important so the mafia targeted you for the NK lol. I want to make it to day phase 2! Tell us more about how they should kill you.
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@whiteflame
Well, I guess I'll just put this out there: for those who are voting Speed, what are your reasons? I'm open to putting my vote there if there's good reason for it.
With all due respect the reasons are outlined in the aforementioned posts and you should read them to draw your own conclusions about not only the case for pressuring Speed, but also getting a vibe on the other players based on what we're saying about the situation. And it's interesting that you voted for me for no reason but need a good reason to vote Speed.
TLDR I just don't like Speed's flippant vibe at the beginning of the day phase; I don't like that people including Speed were acting as if the screen shot idea was outrageous or entirely useless (especially after someone was liking and unliking the post, meaning they were trying to mess with us i.e. was likely a scum player); and I don't like the way Speed moved attention off him to BearMan who I feel was an easy and obvious target which I almost expected him to do. Most importantly I feel like it will provide us with some info; I don't think we've revealed anything way too serious thus far. So it's either vote Speed for info/death or vote No Lynch.
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I'm convinced BearMan is town based on his bizarre and unfathomably bad game play :) Let's vote Speed or No Lynch just to move the game along. We don't have to wait the full time if we're not going to vote for any more info.
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I'm not asking anyone to reveal their role, I'm just asking if you have a role besides vanilla. Y'all can just say YES or NO.
I giggled. What is the point of saying if you have a role besides vanilla if vanilla is allegedly in role madness games? That means regardless of everyone's answer it would reveal positively nothing about whether or not it's a RM game, but scum would know who all the vanillas are. Lol I'm sorry but if he's scum he is trolling HARD and it's kind of impressive. He can't be that amusing of a person and playing this badly for funsies. He must be town.
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I'm not asking anyone to reveal their role, I'm just asking if you have a role besides vanilla. Y'all can just say YES or NO.
Obviously no one should do this. Please disregard.
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@Lunatic
@warren42
@Speedrace
"I think this is a role mad game?
can anyone confirm they have a role besides vanilla?" - BearMan
Can someone confirm Bearman always plays like this? (Clueless with no idea what's going on) Like I said if so, we should move on.
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Hey! I said chicken pot pie: my three favorite things! But I also love chicken pot pie. The more peas, the better.
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@BearMan
A cross between a bear and a man is also very weird
As a lioness, I get it.
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So yeah Bearman is weird. We have his claim. He claimed a believable power role (the justification seems to make sense) meaning he's likely town unless he's scum with a fake claim. I think we all know Bearman didn't come up with that claim. Are you willing to lynch a PR day phase 1? The fact that he voted/unvoted Luna seemingly for no reason is kinda meaningless since he is obviously a very strange bird. Someone should say if this is typical of his play style and if it is we should move on.
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@Lunatic
I dunno, in looking back at the earlier pages Speed seems kinda sincere insisting he wasn't the one who liked the post, but it just doesn't make sense for him to FOS Bearman. Bearman was agreeing with Speed that your logic was silly. Speed says his reasoning for voting Bearman is "I do agree that the cited justification seems faked + my original sus for BearMan unvoting Lunatic for no specified reason." From what I can tell Bearman's claim seems legit. He's either town or using a fake claim. I don't think Bearman would be clever enough to come up with that role and justification (which makes sense to me). He doesn't seem like a very strong player, so even though Speed is right that Bear's play seems a little bizarre -- and his voting for you and then declaring it wrong was is very weird -- that doesn't seem to be particularly "out of character" for him from what very little I can tell. He seems like a weird player in general, and would be an easy person to redirect suspicion to. That's what I'd do if I were scum. And right now I don't feel comfortable lynching him dp1, especially because if your role is legit, I think it would make sense balance wise to have a town tracker. And I just don't feel like losing a potential PR at this point. So I'ma keep my vote on Speed and see what plays out.
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@Lunatic
Kinda mind fvcked. Thought speed/bear was a scum team but speed pushing him has me second guessing. Could be a bus... But idk
Earlier when I said I was waiting for Speed's input, part of that was waiting to see if he put focus on Bearman. At the time you and I started to get impatient with Bearman and you expressed willingness to lynch him (which I was considering but didn't say outright). I figured that Bearman would be the best person to frame and I was curious if Speed would redirect suspicion from him onto Bearman. That's exactly what he did, so now I'd still prefer to lynch Speed or at least get a claim. I realize we have a good amount of claims for DP1 but at this point Speed's is the only one I feel comfortable putting a vote on. The alternative is lynching you which I don't want to do dp1 or Bearman which I don't feel is in our best interest right now.
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@warren42
Like I said I don't think she makes a ton of sense as a tracker
Gotta be honest ~ it makes sense to me after watching the YouTube (but I don't know anything about anime or Avatar)
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@warren42
Are you familiar with the theme or just Googling characters? Which players in this game are familiar with Avatar? I assume quite a bit.
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@ILikePie5
Tracker isn’t necessarily affiliation indicative since Mafia Version of Trackers are fairly common.I think we should get a couple of character claims going to see if we can get theme analysis to a certain extent.I think Lunatic and Speed should character claim. 3 characters for now should be sufficient
Yeah I'm not assuming Bear is town, but there's no need for me to focus on him atm unless we determine whatever character he claimed is sus per theme. I know nothing about the theme or if the mod gives fake claims, but I'm down to get Speed's claim. Why both Luna and Speed though - you don't think one will suffice? Luna's eagerness and willingness to give it up is making me feel pretty indifferent about it. He's either town or scum with a fake claim.
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@warren42
Greyparrot, whiteflame, and croc are all town to varying degrees, lunatic and danielle are also both probably town, but less confident in them
That leaves Speedrace, MisterChris, skittlez09, LikePie5 and Bearman who has already claimed. How would you like to move forward with the day phase?
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@Greyparrot
How do you want to move forward with the day phase?
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@Speedrace
D) The person going back and unliking the post, after so much speculation about it, is trying to F with town meaning it's a scum player.
Out of those 4 points, where do you disagree and how do you want to move forward with the day phase?
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@Speedrace
1. You believe that we can find scum based on the post like. I don't. I've already said this
Gotcha. Please explain which of the following points of mine you disagree with:
A) While 'liking' that post was not inherently scummy at all, the fact that nobody admitted to being the one to liking it is odd. Why not just admit to it since multiple people have said it's not scummy?
B) It takes between 4 and 15 seconds to take a screen shot, and had there not been hints posted about how to work with a teammate, it's possible and even likely the person who 'liked' the comment would be found/deduced.
C) Per A, the person who liked the comment is a candidate for pressuring at the very least.
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@Speedrace
I agree with her logic when we're both town and I don't here
And yet you don't feel the need to make a single post specifying how you disagree with my logic. Interesting. Sounds like you just wanna FOS with no substance.
Gonna keep my vote on you and I think everyone else should vote for you too - unless the town wants to commit to NL despite having more than 24 hours left. I'm fine with that since I don't expect much analysis anyway.
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@Lunatic
Are you seriously scum-reading me for questioning your logic?
Don't respond to this lol ^ Just ignore.
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@BearMan
I think four of us have provided a screenshot. That leaves seven of us who have not. Once again, based on the trends on which people have been active, we might not even get everyone to provide a screenshot this DP. Thus, we shouldn't focus the DP entirely on the like logic
I didn't see any screen shots and that's why I haven't posted one yet. Can someone besides you confirm if we should be posting them? Anyway I didn't say we should focus "entirely" on this and have invited others to bring something else to the mix for us to do. Cast your vote on someone else besides Luna since he already said he will claim if we ask him to. We don't need to build a wagon on him. Thank you.
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