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@Best.Korea
But how is anti abortion and anti-choice considered "hate women"?
How is it that one's desire to save a baby's life considered women's hatred?
I agree to ban gay people. It's definitely a choice to be gay and it's my choice to despise them.
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@Vegasgiants
And proofs only exist in math. In science everything is a theory. Science only offers evidence.
Semantics. Science brings ideas to be proved.
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@Stephen
Or anyone else of sound minded level-headedness.
I see, so someone who believes what you believe? Otherwise, I'm just ignorant right?
You have such a bitterness to the things of God that you have to try to destroy everything pertaining to him.
You never told us why you are so bitter. Why are you just a pissy old man?
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@Vegasgiants
You really are useless on this site. Do you have something to say besides "no it's not!"? Can you bring any real information to the table?
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@Vegasgiants
Dude. Science does not prove things. Lol
Expound please.
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@Stephen
I told you that you it would not prove anything to you.
No skin off my teeth.
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@Best.Korea
Not a contradiction. The old testament was a "school master" as it said in the New Testament.
Jesus was the same God as the old testament and new. The Mosaic law (old testament) was the thing that pointed to Jesus and his salvation. When Jesus comes on the scene, he didn't follow all the Jewish laws, because he was the law giver and knew why the Mosaic law was written. He was wanting others to love him like Abraham did (before the law), like King David did (during the law) and like Paul (after the law).
There is no cherry picking needed when you understand the reason for the Mosaic law.
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@FLRW
Scientist, not science.
That is about as persuasive as Stephen saying the same thing.
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@Best.Korea
I will agree that CO2 traps heat, but that is not the whole story. Scientists don't know what is all going on totally. They just grab one hypothesis and run with it. We cannot just accept one aspect without researching the whole. The world leaders will make drastic changes according to the CO2 knowledge but ignore everything else. It's knowledge that is being weaponized.
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@Vegasgiants
Are you brand new to science?
*sigh* I may open up a can of worms with this, but the idea of science has been completely thrown out the window with the advent of climate change (aka global warming) and then the whole COVID "pandemic". People in "science" today are more propagandists than scientists. Are they smart? Yes. Do they know a lot of things? Yes, again. But that doesn't change the properties of life and what really happens in the world.
The science you know is a bunch of propaganda. A "science" made to sway to public opinion for one reason or another. You are the sheep along with millions of others that will thump their chest in the name of "science" and then call people like ADOL and I fools for not parroting what the "scientists" say and not use our own logical abilities to say "hey! That's not right!"
I would ask you, what do you know about science?
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@Stephen
Touché Stephen. I did read your post too fast.
You actually asked me if I can prove that science proves the existence of God.
Can I prove it to you? No, nothing will prove God to you. You spit venom about God in nearly every post.
Can I make an argument to show this? Sure. Here goes:
Since God created the universe, then he had to create the properties that everything in the universe, such as light, space, time, matter, etc. These had to be made precisely in order for the universe to be running in it's current condition. Same goes for the human body, there had to be a lot of elements and systems tied together at the same time to make it run properly.
So, since mankind always tried to find the "why and how" of everything, I.E. Science, we will always be digging deeper into subjects. Such as, gold is more than just a pretty rock. It turns out its a metal. How does it become metal? It's molecular structure tells us that. What are molecules? They are made up of atoms. Where do atoms come from? They were made by God. (not saying that atoms are the end of the trail, just this is what we know so far.)
So the run of things will bring us closer and closer to seeing a creator behind all things and not an accident.
Science will prove there is a God, not disprove Him.
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@Stephen
So you, being a believer then, can prove science proves the existence of god?
I didn't claim that I could, I claimed that Science will not disprove God.
Can science prove that God does not exist?
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@Vegasgiants
You know that climate change is only substantiated by what someone says. There is no way to prove it. ADOL is right.
Don't waste my time.
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@Vegasgiants
Another guy who can't debate
I just refuse to engage in a battle of wit against an unarmed man.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
@Vegasgiants
My money is on ADOL!!
Duke it out guys! I'm popping some popcorn. Vegas, don't go down in the first round like a Mike Tyson fight.
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@Best.Korea
Science is the study of something. It is only as viable as far as we can prove it. It's results hinge on the ability and the knowledge of the scientist. It can only be true scientific fact if the result can be reproduced in an controlled environment. So to say that Science is contradictory to God, is not true. We are finite beings looking for how and why things work. Science is amoral, like a brick. People use it to try to prove their way of thinking to be the best. Just as a brick can be used to break a window, it can also be used to build a house.
God is the creator of Science. If we study and search enough, it will prove God, not the other way around.
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@Best.Korea
Can you make one for me too? Can you make it say it came from my wife?
This might be fun!
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@Best.Korea
Wow! No wonder technology is stealing real life. I just heard a stat the other day, no source for now, that around 30% of men at the age of 40 are still virgins. Do you think it is because of the internet can create a fake reality to which they can just live in without the responsibility? I.E. virtual girlfriends, virtual friends (AI poems), etc.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
And then MAGA morons bitch about McConnell. Classic!
Hey, even a stopped clock is correct twice a day.
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@Best.Korea
Have AI write a poem about you, using the term Best.Korea.
Just curious.
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@Best.Korea
Ah, Gish gallop. I believe the definition is "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with BS.”
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@Vegasgiants
Thank God I'm not part of the we actually landed on the moon religion. Lol
Wait! We didn't land on the moon?
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@FLRW
... then the low intellect Trump voting public, pushes against it.
So it looks like majority of America are Trump voters.
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Did this site make you better at debating IRL?
Contrary to most posts here, this site has helped me propose arguments IRL. I am not a debater by nature. I enjoy laughter rather than strife. I will usually take the hit to help create peace in a situation, but I have always wanted to be able voice my thoughts properly, to sound intelligent when I do and to have a calm demeaner when I am opposed. This site has helped me figure a lot of those things out and others here have helped me tremendously, IwantRoosevelt included.
My friends were always argumentative growing up and I never enjoyed arguing just to argue. I thought it to be worthless. Nobody really cares what you think when you try to cram it down your their throats. So I usually stayed away from it. As I got older, I realized that I believed in things others around me did not and I had to defend myself. My abilities to talk was never that great especially when I get put under pressure. Same thing when I am angry, I clam up. So a rash of opposing views from this site helps me understand myself and my abilities as a debater, better.
I have gotten bored from this constant bickering, like I said, I think it's worthless, but overall I like this site.
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@TWS1405_2
Wow. I get disinterested for a month and poke my head in and see two highly active members knocked off. What happened?
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Got it.
The timing is peculiar though.
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AI doesn't have drive or the human spirit. I'm sure that there will never be a time that an AI robot will look around at the misery of it's fellow AI bots and decide that it's had enough and overthrow the tyrannical bot king for the good of all AI bot populace. AI's can learn, not feel. It performs it's tasks, like a program should. It can get more sophisticated in it's approach, but it will only do what it is programmed to.
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Disney will flop not because it stars blacks in the movies. There are plenty of movies with black people that have done really well, you like Song of the South. :) Disney will flop because it doesn't give the public what it wants. It is a business just like all the rest of profit making companies and if it doesn't market to the public what the public wants, then the public will decide if Disney will flop or not. Same with Budlight when they thought it would be a good idea to put a trans on the can. The public still doesn't want the woke, trans and gay agenda. Most people don't care as long as it doesn't effect them but since they(trans, gay, woke agenda leaders) are wandering out of the nightclubs and gay bars and into Amercia's movies and booze, then the public pushes against it.
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Quick question:
How any indictments has Trump been found guilty on yet? Or are all of these still in trial?
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@Kaitlyn
Why is everyone obsessed with Calvin Klein? It's so bland, over-priced and ugly.
I agree. I almost never buy name brand.
Name brand and image. It has it's own way of elevating itself above the rest so now the people who demand to be "cool" or "posh" will have to buy Calvin Klein. It's the same as high school if you had a Walmart shirt, you were not cool, but to shop at anchor blue (or any other clothing store besides Wal-Mart) was cool.
On the flip side, is Calvin Klein a durable brand? Does it last longer?
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@ludofl3x
"I want to be attracted to this beautiful tower of thicc perfection that is briskly jogging over hurdles and finishing last, girl don't move too fast, lemme get a good look at you."
LOL! I'm dying!!
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I enjoy eating animals. I figure the one that are killed for my tastebuds are the ones that hated life and wanted to die anyways. A hungry animal savior if you will.
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@ludofl3x
I don't choose to lust after women, it's just something that happens, though.
Agree, but you choose not to chase women other than your wife right?
The bolded part was the most likely answer. After all, I didn't choose to be Catholic, I just came from a line of them.
I agree I am disadvantaged in the "conversion" arena when I was brought there by my dad, but my dad was and adult and my wife(before I met her) also came in after she was an adult. Both of them will say the same thing, that they were led there due to a desire to fill the void.
So lucky, then, that you ended up in the right one!
I know the above is sarcasm, but I think myself lucky to be brought up in this way. It has been a lifeline to me.
Doesn't this then put the responsibility on god to call or lead his creation to the right church? Makes me wonder why there are so many competing denominations, because they can't all be right, in fact, all of them save one have to be wrong, which means an awful lot of people who think they're in good shape are in for an unpleasant surprise.
This is a good point but one that discounts our ability to choose God or not. If God wants us saved, then he will make a way IF we also want to be saved. He will not pull us to him kicking and screaming. There are a lot of wrong churches, but keep in mind that they all read from the same Bible and should hear from the same God. Someone is not listening or following directions.
Does it make you sad to think your brother is going to hell, and when you're in heaven you'll forget about him?
My brother and mother both are not in the same way as me. It is their decision though. So it's sad, but I can only do so much.
but also say that I can't fully understand the bible without a preacher to interpret it or help me along
Again, I don't think we are uncapable of any understanding. We just need a teacher.
I thought this was exactly the opposite of the 'personal relationship' with Jesus
Not really. If someone can help you learn about God or his ways, how does this negate a personal relationship? Besides, God's plan also involved having his people around you (fellowship). So you will always be helping or being helped in some form or fashion.
I didn't take it as mean, I understand this is what you believe, I just like the clarity, which is why I asked for the clarification. It doesn't upset me at all, as I don't think anyone I love is going anywhere but wherever the flame on a blown out candle goes when they pass.
Good, because I don't want to come across as such. If what you say is true, then none of us have anything to worry about when we pass.
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@Double_R
Arousal is the basis of sexuality, to deny what arouses you is to deny your sexuality.
Are there more categories? Like midgets or is it only gender qualified?
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@ludofl3x
So you believe the afterlife isn't limited to Christians, just that Christians get the best heaven? I'm not trying to sound glib, I just want to read it as you intend it.
Correct. It's just my assumption considering that God created all things for the church to happen.
Colossians 1:16 states that all things were created for Jesus. The whole point of Jesus was to "buy" redemption for mankind. The church was God's plan the whole time. It would make sense to me that the church would be considered the "bride of Christ" to have more eminence. But, I suppose it really doesn't matter. I can't change what God actually has in mind.
Hm. Wouldn't he HAVE to create gay people for them to exist? If not, then at the very least, wouldn't he know they'd be gay? I don't know how that doesn't end up with god being responsible for it. And if it was such a problem, I always wonder why did he even make it a possibility by design? I know you don't have the answer to that last question (it's really more an engineering question), but I'm curious as to how god is absolved of authorship.
Maybe I wasn't clear. A man will choose to lust after another man's body just like he can choose to lust after a woman's body, or a child's body or a animals body or a pillow shaped like a "lolli". This does not mean he was born that way or that God designed his lusts towards men. All men lust after something and we all have to reign in our lust so it doesn't hurt ourselves and/or others.
How'd you pick the 'right church', if I can ask? And how would or could I have known if mine was wrong? What if I'd kept going to Catholic church, or the evangelical one, and they were both wrong. Sounds like you think I'd end up in hell, is that incorrect?
I was partially raised in it. I stayed and one of my brothers is like you. The difference between him and me is that I followed the Biblical way and was filled with God's spirit. In order to go to the correct church, you have to be led or called of God. Most people that come in to the church will have a testimony that they were somehow drawn to it. There are other factors which guide our lives besides logic and emotion.
To answer your question, yes, you would end up in hell if you continue like you are or keep going to the catholic church. I know this is a complete turn off to any religion because you love your parents, but I didn't write the Bible. We were given it and we are to follow it. Not trying to be mean here.
Also in this passage of your post, you say the bible might not make sense if it doesn't come from the right preacher. But isn't that what the entire protestant movement was kind of about? Removing that interlocutor between god and his people so they can have a personal relationship with him?
Protestantism was done to protest the Catholic church. I am not a protestant. My religion never came from the catholic church, the catholic church came from us.
As for a preacher, I'll put it this way, you wouldn't accept the teachings of marriage from a divorced man would you? He would have to know what he is talking about. In order to know if its right, check on what he says with the Bible.
Do you mean we can miss things in the bible unless god reveals them to you? Because I don't understand why some sort of outside factor, basically a decoder ring, would be required to understand what I would conclude you think is the most important piece of writing ever written. Think of it this way: let's say a tribesman from a remote Amazonian jungle village happens upon a bible in his hunt one day. The bible is in a language he understands, but there's no preacher around. Isn't the point that if he reads the bible and follows it, he's now a Christian and saved, even if he doesn't know any preachers?
Certain things, yes. I would say that God is not going to reveal his word to an ungrateful person who will discard it. Typically, he knows their heart and their desire to be right, to "fill the void" kind of thing. But Salvation is very simple and many people confuse it. If a man has obtained the "salvation message", he still needs a preacher to baptize him. God will then lead that person to a group of people that believes like he does.
To the Amazon guy, God can make a way. Again, this is a "what if" question to a scenario that doesn't exist and only comes up to prove a point, but it will never be applied to real life.
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@Slainte
I'm assuming this is pandering to the liberal Trump voters to detract them from Trump if they were to both win the nomination.
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@ludofl3x
This gets to my point: the main thing that's good about heaven is you know it isn't hell. Doesn't that seem weird? I will never sign up for anything that would in any way jeopardize that relationship, and the idea of something else being so amazing I completely forget that my kids exist, I'm going to pass on it. If hell wasn't an option, let's say, would you sign up for completely forgetting your entire earthly existence? I bet deep down the answer is a little troubling, I know it was for my mom when I asked her this question, when she was upset that I'm an atheist, raising children who don't have any religion. It was her being so upset, to the point of tears, at the idea of spending her afterlife without me or my children than brought this question up initially.
I think it is more of an understanding to choose between reward or punishment and not that one looks bad so I will choose the other. To say if hell wasn't an option is moot because it is the alternative. Also, I would die inside just like your mom if my children decided to not follow the Bible and choose this world instead of God. But at the end of the day, I have to choose for myself and just because I don't want it to be this way, doesn't mean it won't. I know this is not what you believe but someday there will be a judgement day where all will stand before God, including myself. I will have to answer to him on how I directed my life. My kids will have to answer for themselves. In my mind, hell would be complete separation from anything good including God, children, parents, life, hope, etc. So in this case, hell would be a lose all and heaven would be a better chance at "winning".
Who's in charge of the paradise for old testament folks? And, do you think that the people who existed prior to the old testament, and people who lived on entirely undiscovered continents when the old testament was written (I presume you concede these people were also created by god), do they have their own heavens, or are they in hell? I know there's not a lot of official dogma on this topic, so I'm really just curious as to how you think about it. It would seem inconsistent with the idea that you have to have god or Jesus or have been baptized to get in. Wouldn't it also create a question of god's honesty with the hebrews? If he's in charge of multiple paradises that all have different entry criteria, then why is the bible so strict on how to get in? That's one question. If he's NOT in charge of, let's say, some Aboriginal or Native American heaven, then he's not the only god.
God obviously created Adam and Eve and from there man procreated. The flood knocked it down to eight. From there society came from the "fertile cresent" in the middle east and migrated after the Tower of Babel. At that point, there was no known testament to follow. We know that Moses did offer sacrifice, so there was some sort law to abide by. When the Israelites were wondering to the promised land, God had them destroy certain nations and said it was judgement. How can there be judgement with out a law? Also in the case of Jonah going to Nineveh, he preached about destruction and they repented. What law did they break and how did they repent? This tells me that there was some sort of law given early to all mankind that didn't include the Mosaic law. This had to be a very generic law, similar to 10 commandments or so that would make society operational. There are tons of myths and legends that line up with the bibical account of creation and the flood. This is because it all came from one source. Why wouldn't a typical standard of living come from the same source?
With this in mind, there would be some sort of afterlife reward and punishment for all, in the same place, not including the church. The church is specifically the "bride of Christ" so I am going to assume that their place in the afterlife has a higher importance.
If the book is god's word, essentially an instruction manual for Christians, then why would I need someone else to tell me what THEY think it means? Why isn't my view as valid?
It's not that your view point is invalid, it's that we need all need help and direction. God made his plan in such a way that he wants us to be lead by a pastor or preacher.
1Cor 1:21 . . .it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
The other problem is that we can miss things unless God reveals it to us. A simple thing is the scripture of Acts2:38. This specially states how someone is to be saved, but since we have been so indoctrinated with bad "Christian" doctrine, we will skip right over this verse. It has been told to me many times that when someone reads the Bible before they come to God, it doesn't really make sense until it comes from the preacher. This is why it's important to go to the right church that preaches Bible and not tradition. Again, the same reason that I say, you have not known God.
So god created the gay guy, knowing he was gay, and he's mad at the gay guys for being gay? I'm sorry, I'm not following here. As it stands, that seems exceptionally cruel, even for god, to create a person in such a way that they can choose between being miserable and lonely and a liar (a sin!) for their whole life, OR, they can burn forever in a lake of fire, for being exactly how they were made. I have to disagree that there are no gay Christians, I've known two (not counting clergy). You're making a "No True Scotsman" argument here, but also ignoring the tenet 'judge not lest ye be judged,' no?
Again, can of worms because you think gays were born that way. But to clarify, God does not create gay people or make them gay. I was giving lame examples to say that in any instance that God will not accept a man who is gay and that anyone who has dabbled in the gay life has to turn away from it be a Christian. The people that you know are not real Christians, they are counterfeit. Sorry. They may be nice people and all but they cannot be a Christian and be gay. You will never where being gay is ever okay in the Bible.
The whole "judge not" is pulled way out of context for people to do what they want and don't want to be condemned. It is referring to condemning others for the things that you do. Being a hypocrite, not that you can't say what is right or wrong.
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@HistoryBuff
alright, feel free to come back any time and tell me more about how democracy is bad and corrupt and how dictator trump will save us all.
Nah. Looks like we all will see it real time soon.
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@Slainte
Loved it.
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@Double_R
It would have been more fun if you chose to be aroused. Next time choose differently.
Sexual attraction meanwhile is preceded by arousal, which is not a choice.
I noticed you said this a few times. Are you saying that the determining factor in the gay thing is that a man is aroused when another man touches his dong?
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@HistoryBuff
But whatever, if you want to ride off into the sunset after being pro-dictator, go for it.
LOL
Your head is too hard for mine to beat against, that's all. I'm bored on the subject for now.
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@HistoryBuff
That was actually my parting shot, so I'm done with this thread. I do not know enough about the subject other than what I have just said, so from here it would just be banter and name calling.
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@ludofl3x
This would allow for all the people who predate Jesus to be in heaven, even those who had no idea who he was. Can you point me to this in scripture? Because as I recall, the scripture does have Jesus saying there's no way to get to God unless it's through him (I think it's in John somewhere, near the 3:16 verse). These two things seem contradictory to me (your position and the scriptural one). Can you help me understand where you see this? Also, ZERO chance I'm getting into heaven if there is one, but that's nice of you :). I have a pretty good grip on the character in the bible, and not only do I not believe he exists, if he did, I find him immoral and unworthy of worship.
I think I confused the subject here. What I was referring as heaven is probably different than what you have in your mind. What I mean by heaven is where the Christian people will go to. There is an everlasting "paradise" for old testament people that I can only assume is something similar. Again, there is not a lot on this subject.
So you are correct that the scripture says that no man comes to the father except through Jesus. This is in reference to the baptism that is needed. That heaven requirement started after Jesus' resurrection. Anything before that was through a different testament and different requirements.
As for you knowing God, I will beg to differ only from what you told me of your background. You were a catholic. The Catholics don't follow the Bible. The Catholics never had God in their church and therefore, no one there really knew God. They knew of God or at least what they heard from the priests, but the concept of God was skewed and warped and it never really showed who God was. That is also why I asked who the Christian couple was at your work that you went to church with. Same concept. If they didn't follow the Bible, then they couldn't have known God too (I am only assuming that this is the case here).
So in your case, how can you turn away from from God or tell someone you don't know that you do not believe in him? That's why I am saying that you are not the reprobate that I was referring to.
Let me clarify, I do not think Catholics are evil. They just don't understand God and salvation.
I took out the parenthetical here just for clarity. Didn't god make homosexuality an option?And what about the homosexual Christians? The ones who desperately pray to be different, to the point of tears, because they feel so guilty? Or the ones who aren't pedophiles?
I know this is opening a can of worms with you, but there is no such thing as a gay Christian. IF anyone was born that way, then they would have to turn from their "gayness" to become a Christian, just like a man who is always hot headed, he would have to control himself.
A little scripture reference here:
Romans 1: 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Read it in context and it is a bad thing to be homo. God gave them up to vile affections. If there is any reason that God created a gay guy it is because He let that guy go after his own lusts.
Isn't the love we have for family and friends a massive part of who we are though? I treasure the fuck out of my relationship with both my kids. I don't want to be in any dimension where I don't even remember having it. Why would anyone, I think. It's just weird how good a grip humans have on SUFFERING (look at how many different hells we can imagine), but almost none of paradise that sound appealing.
I agree that I will die and kill for my children. I just don't really know what heaven will be like to even make a statement about it. I would only say for myself, that if I know what it takes to go to heaven and I don't want to go to hell, then I would do my best to make sure my kids are on the right path by the time they leave the nest.
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@Double_R
You are the walking embodiment of everything wrong with our society.
I'll wear that one as a badge.
You are far more learned than I am and I cannot pursue this subject further than what I have already said. I will only say to sit and wait for the end of this agenda and let's see what it envelopes. There are other things than intellect and emotion that runs our lives. Some call it intuition. Just my hunch here, but it's going downhill.
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@ludofl3x
Sorry. I dragged my feet on this one.
The really bad people is tongue in cheek because it always seems that people like to see themselves as good since they are not like the "really bad" people. The idea about salvation is that there is not a threshold of sin that keeps us from it. It is the fact that we don't have the identity of Jesus applied to our lives that keeps us from heaven. So can God forgive all sins? Yes. Does he allow forgiveness to all sinners? No. There are some that reject and deny God to where God literally calls them reprobate or rejected of God. Who are these people? God only knows exactly but I'm sure it's not people like you or me. These are people that knew God and denies him later (Not like you. You never knew God. I'll explain if you want.) or people that are so vile like homosexuals who are whole heartedly into the gay stuff and pedophiles. These are people that have no conscience and the voice of God is shut out completely.
I dug around a little about Heaven and it seems that it matches B & C. There is not a lot of scripture on heaven anyways, but I would assume that the connection you have with God will make the connections with anyone on Earth look wimpy, therefore the immense love you have for your family would be dwarfed by God's love. This is my theory only because I really don't know what heaven will be like.
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@Double_R
how do you account for the fact that every gay child born came from straight parents?
Good question. Because they choose to be gay. BTW, what if I said I was born to dislike gay people? Would you tell me I was a bigot then? I'm sure I could make up some sort of research to support my views.
pretending that gay = sexual perversion
Did I make it look like I was pretending? My apologies for not being clearer about this. Being gay does equal sexual perversion.
And there is no reason why being sexually attracted to men is perverted but not to women, so that would qualify as well.
Oxford dictionary of perversion: the alteration of something from its original course, meaning, or state to a distortion or corruption of what was first intended.
It is okay for a man(male) to be attracted to a woman(female). That's how it started from any creation or evolution background.
literal example
You are a literal example of an intellectual push over and groomer supporter for thinking this stuff is okay and for thinking that it is going to stop at just gayness. Use your damn brain. It is corrupt and it will soon reach to all areas of sexual perversion. Incest, bestiality, pedophilia, etc. Where would you draw the line of inclusion?
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@Greyparrot
I watched the video. Look at the third comment from a Youtube user dontask8979 and his replies.. I'm telling you that the pressure cooker is about to explode. They are pushing too hard.
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