Total posts: 5,766
Someone ping me on this thread in a decade or two so we can all laugh at the people saying "someone I like got impeached, guess that means this is the new norm lol."
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@DynamicSquid
<br>Thought you might be interested.
Sure, sure. Well I gave you my thoughts. If you want to discuss anything in more detail then I am open to doing so.
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@DynamicSquid
The government is trash at getting things done.
Not sure why I was tagged in this but yeah, that is generally a true statement.
The only government that will actually get things done is a progressive government.
What? a person that thinks their way of thinking is the only way of thinking that could possibly work? In 2019? Say it's not so...
So why aren't there serious regulations and major steps taken to deal with them? Cause the NRA spends literal millions of dollars buying the politicians
Haha okay, I guess next you will be telling me that the sky is blue and grass is green.
So it's not the protesters like Greta that make a difference, it's the billionaires that do.
Yup, blue sky green grass. Called it. Why was I tagged again?
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@3RU7AL
@Dr.Franklin
@WaterPhoenix
Are you suggesting the death penalty is always justified?
yes
*mind blows open*
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@DynamicSquid
DisDid (can I call you DidDid?) brought up a good point. We all are paying taxes to pay for a UBI, however, people may spend their UBI on something against my views.That's actually a very good point. However, I find it highly opinion based. I'm sure that there's some people that don't care.
Everyone would have a problem with some portion of how the UBI paychecks are spent. Some wouldn't like that there are people that indirectly fund dangerous cartels by buying drugs off the street for personal use, some people wouldn't like that there are those who would donate to political campaigns that they disagree with (this would be a big one for the U.S. since in today's political climate there is no such thing as 'a political party disagree with', there is only 'the political party I agree with' and '''' political party that is full of rabidly evil baby-killing commies/fascists'). Some wouldn't like that a portion of their tax dollars are wasted on gambling or pyramid scheme investments or any of a dozen other things. They would have no say in the matter though because the UBI would just be a cash deposit into people's bank accounts.
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@Lunatic
I am totally understanding why this site is dead now
LMAO what?
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The fact that Supa was banned is annoying but it was avoidable by simply following the rules and though I know nothing about the context of his RO violation I am sure that when he returns he will have the maturity to acknowledge this, possibly make some thread on it.
RM and etan are right - the most important thing is to not have favorites.
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@DynamicSquid
Hmm... Money seems to be the issue here.
Money is the issue in a proposal to give everyone free money? You don't say...
Well actually as I said before mymain objection would be the moral concern of taxpayers not being able to see where their money is going. If I get my girlfriend pregnant and pay for the abortion with my free government check that is a legitimate problem considering a portion of that check was funded by taxpayers like ethang that are against abortion. That is just one example off the top of my head, I could name dozens more if given just a few minutes to do so.
But yeah the feasability of getting the money in the first place is a concern too as explained in post 44.
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@DynamicSquid
But he gets a thousand bucks a month. That is more than he gets taxed.
Oh neat, it is like a magic trick. The magician puts a one dollar bill into his hat then pulls a five out. Rinse and repeat for infinite wealth.
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@bsh1
I would say Merry Christmas but idk if you will be around that long so happy holidays.
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Sound great!Are you three up to the challenge?
As mentioned previously anything before the new year is not going to work for me. Sorry.
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@WaterPhoenix
I was not trying to sound angry. I was trying to give an accurate account of the situation, and I did. You really truly were pulling things out of your ass (metaphorically speaking anyway) to support your narrative.
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@WaterPhoenix
i am not trying to make a personal attack on you.
No shit. I never said you were making a personal attack on me and I never thought you were eitherl. Al I said is that your post was logically invalid, which is a polite way of saying it was retarded.
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@ethang5
@DynamicSquid
UBI is a fantastically bad idea for the same reason perpetual motion machines are a bad idea.There is no way to get more energy (in this case represented by money) out of a process than is put in.
<br>
Right. UBI implementation is possible only under three scenarios.
Scenario one: Increase money supply proportional to total UBI amount.
Result: Rapidly increased inflation.
Scenario two: increase taxes proportional to total UBI amount enough to keep inflation consistent.
Result: UBI irrelevant, all gets taxed away and ends in simply increasing unnecessary and wasteful bureaucracy.
Scenario three: Same as scenario two but implement taxation in such a way that the burden of tax is carried by profit-driven organizations such as corporations and small businesses rather than by citizens, thus successfully avoiding the inflation problem and the obvious problems with scenario two. (This would align with DynamicSquids proposal)
Result: Said profit-driven organizations simply increase price of goods and services to compensate, thus passing on the cost to the consumer proportional to total UBI amount. Because this increased cost is not a result of inflation this scenario also has the side effect of decreasing the nation's competitiveness on the global market.
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@WaterPhoenix
No, cause I'm middle class.
Quick correction on this point, the real reason you would not quit your job for 12k a year of UBI is because you would want to avoid literal homelessness and actual hunger. I highly doubt you have ever experienced either of these things or ever had an income level where either was a real possibility. Once you have experienced such an income level you may be permitted to authoritatively speak on the subject of what others in that income bracket would or would not do in the event that a UBI program was implemented. Until then you are just pulling things out of your ass.
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@3RU7AL
Heading to work in less than an hour. Do you mind putting the resolution and rules together yourself and I will look over it tomorrow and decide whether to accept? Only stipulation I can think off off the top of my head is that it should be clear we are talking specifically about the Star Trek version.
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@3RU7AL
Would you be interested in a short (4k-6k character) debate about whether the Star Trek Prime Directive is ethical?
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@VonKlempter
If you are snipping I think you have to make the snip a perfect square if you wish to avoid gaps. I have always gone the download route since I rarely use my computer for DART so, you know, grain of salt and all that.
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@Vader
I like that one and I would use it but DART wants one with less pixels.
I decided to find my own new one using the same character that was in the one you linked so you could say you inspired this one.
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A debate about this post:
Ended in full forfeit by pro. Easy vote.
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So uh, NP deadline was over 24 hours ago and nobody in the mafia has told me who they plan to NK. I guess town wins?
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@WaterPhoenix
You can make it up to me by buying a copy of my autobiography when it comes out. I plan on calling it Trailer Trash to Landlord in Ten Years Flat, Sucky Big Fat Hairy Balls Society!
Coming to a bookstore near you in July 2090.
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@ethang5
Your reasoning was solid, but you still didn't touch my main reason for thinking the idea is ludicrous.
If it is something I have not mentioned I would be curious to hear it.
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@WaterPhoenix
No, I'll bet he fought his way out of poverty when Obama came along and gave out food stamps to everyone. Along with lower rent and almost no taxes, the poor really don't need to do anything.
I have never been on food stamps or any kind of government assistance, though I probably could have until about six months ago. What is the cut-off? 14k a year? 15k? never bothered to look into it.
Between actual on-the-book employment and unofficial side jobs I have been working well over 40 hours a week on average for every week of my adult life so you can feel free to go fuck yourself.
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@DynamicSquid
A little long. Could we perhaps squeeze it before Winter break?
IDK when winter break is, never bothered with college and high school was six years ago, but I will be busy with a lot of overtime at work until the end of December and plan on shopping around for a house after tax season so a few months is the best I can do for anything that might take more than 10-15 minutes a day.
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@DynamicSquid
1) Check out my current debate with Swagnarok on UBI
I certainly will after I get off work.
2) Wanna start a debate on it?3) Let's argue it right here if you want
Not enough time right now. Remind me in a few months.
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@ethang5
What's your reasoning?
From an economic point of view I think it costs too damn much if the monetary amount is set anywhere near high enough to achieve the desired effect (that most often being described as enough to cover bare minimum cost of living). The govt spending that much money will require either enormous cutbacks in spending or a huge spike in deficit/debt, all for something that will contribute next to nothing to the economy. I am not a trained economist so I consider this to be the weaker of my two main objections.
From a moral point of view I don't like the idea of taking taxpayer money and distributing that it in such a way that said taxpayer has no idea how their money if being spent. This is an objection I have to certain other government programs too, not just UBI. I could go on for a long time on why I hold this position but for the sake of a shorter post I will not do so.
You probably agree with these two points but where I assume (possibly incorrectly) that we would disagree based on what few posts I have seen of yours on the forum and the fact that you identify as a conservative on your profile is that you probably (again I might be wrong) subscribe to the belief that implementing a UBI would encourage people capable of working to instead not do so and simply live off their new monthly government check. This is a common objection I have heard to UBI and quite honestly I find this objection even more laughable than the idea of UBI itself given the amounts involved in most UBI proposals and my experience in successfully fighting my way out of poverty over the last decade or so. Again I do not know for sure that you hold this view, maybe you don't, but it does seem like a common one.
And do you have a theory for why so many otherwise smart people think it is viable?
I have not looked closely enough at the arguments in favor of UBI to have an opinion on this. I doubt it is as simple as 'they are all just stupid/lazy' though.
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@Paul
Wow this one is wrong as well.I cant figure out where that original article went. Every time I try to go to it I get a different article!
Yeah scientific papers can be a pain in the ass to share over any medium that doesn't allow file attachment. Like I told eth no need to worry about it. Was just curious.
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@ethang5
Its in there. It's just a long paper.
Ctrl+F revealed zero instances of the word 'lobotomy'.
You also didn't link me an experiment paper, you linked me an essay. That is one reason I assumed you accidentally sent me the wrong link.
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I would agree that most UBI proposals are abject nonsense, though we probably disagree about the reasoning.
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@ethang5
I think you accidentally gave me the wrong link. The one you gave me wasn't about any experiment like you described and in fact mentioned nothing about lobotomies at all (see your quote in post 9).
If you no longer have access to the paper detailing that experiment you mentioned that is fine, thanks for your time.
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Is it because they struggle to give a valid reason for his ban
It is on the public record that bsh requested to be banned.
Personally I do not understand the purpose of this tradition people have of requesting to be banned when they quit the site rather than just not logging in but that is what happened in this case.
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@Greyparrot
Greyparrot unsuccessfully attempting to get me to use Google Translate... My wife and children dead of smallpox because they used the wrong blankets...
Juan from down the street got that management position at Taco Bell instead of my cousin Jimmy... Trail of Tears...
Dude, I probably don't even disagree with you too much about immigration policy. Just trying to make the point that when you overdramatize things by saying that Mexicans are literally going to go full genocide you just sound retarded and you make everyone that happens to agree with you that limits should be placed on immigration sound retarded by association. Please stop.
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@Greyparrot
Being permitted to fly a foreign flag on private property... Total loss of cultural heritage...
Hmm...
Flag on private property... Death of over three quarters of your race...
Flag... Genocide...
Flag...
Yeah you're right. Totally credible comparison, I can see that now. I don't know what I was thinking before. Boy do I feel silly.
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I would be interested in talking part if you can find some other players assuming that the game starts some time after Christmas. My schedule is pretty full between now and then.
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@Greyparrot
I guess what I am trying to say is If you want to conflate a few Mexicans taking your nephew's job at Taco Bell or your uncle's roofing company with the destruction of cultures and actual genocide, then I have no idea where the line would be to tap the brakes.
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@Greyparrot
If you want to conflate the destruction of cultures with genocide, then I have no idea where the line would be to tap the brakes.
The line would be somewhere well before 80% population reduction I think. That is about the estimated population reduction that the Native Americans underwent during colonialism.
Please keep in mind that you are the one that brought up Native Americans under colonialism and said that is an apt comparison for modern immigration. I am not the one that did that.
You didn't answer my question though... Were you being litteral or trying to fashion some sort of metaphor that simply went over my head?
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@ethang5
There are experiments where a person undergoes a lobotomy and retains his personhood with half his brain gone!
That is really cool. What did they do to determine that this 'personhood' you speak of was still intact, and what were the results? Do you still have access to these papers? I would like to read myself if possible as I have always been interested in the nature of human identity.
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@Greyparrot
So you're okay with the elimination of the Native American culture, both North and South?
Wait, I am confused now. Are you saying that immigration is literally the same thing as genocide somehow or are you trying to draw some convoluted metaphor?
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@blamonkey
The Brain Trauma Foundation
That's a pretty specific thing to build a whole foundation around lol.
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@David
@drafterman
@Vader
@ILikePie5
@oromagi
Okay DP ends in a no-lynch.
Mafia still outnumbers town so town has 3 actions each tonight. Submit night actions.
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Fine. but I hope you repeat your post. Draft will want to know that info.
Roleblocked can block only one action, determined at random via RNG. BP may be the randomly selected blocked action, in which case any other action(s) will not be blocked.
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@oromagi
I was replying to you but now your post is deleted.
Sorry, was trying to hit the edit button to correct spelling errors. Accidentally hit delete then hit 'confirm' w/o thinking.
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@David
@drafterman
@Vader
@ILikePie5
@oromagi
Vote Count
Virtuoso (2/3) - drafter, oro
Drafterman (3/3) - supa, virtuoso, pie
Okay I guess I missed the post where supadudz switched his vote. I screwed up, the VC should look like this.
VIRTUOSO HAS NOT BEEN LYNCHED. NOT LYNCH HAS OCCURRED YET. THE DP IS STILL ON. ALL 5 OF YOU ARE STILL ALIVE. TOWN STILL HAS 3 NIGHT ACTIONS AS LONG AS THEY ARE OUTNUMBERED. THE ABOVE VOTE COUNT IS ACCURATE... PROBABLY.
I go back to sleep now. I have gotten about 30 hours of sleep in the last 7 days so sorry for the mix-up. If you have any questions they will probably be answered by rereading the rule changes in the OP. The ones that are in bold and say ATTENTION right before them? Yeah those ones. Pretty clear based on PMs I have gotten that those and the similar message in the original (incorrect) vote count were not read by everyone.
Oh also the DP has 32 hours left in it. Will consider an extension if requested, no guarantees.
Someone please summarize the important points of my post into a neat bullet point format for players to read since it seems about 50% of you don't read anything I write.
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@Vader
As I very clearly asked, please address any vonconce to me in PM.
I will now triple check the VC.
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@SirAnonymous
LMAO awesome video. My favorite part was where the guy was 'explaining' it halfway through and had to step forward so the guy he was talking to couldn't see him almost laughing.
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