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Lunch
Autocorrect is really pissing me off. Sometimes it allows the word lynch and sometimes it doesn't. It is completely goddamn random.
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@Speedrace
Where is your vote at the moment? I am on AD in part because our new friend GP wants to off him but if anyone has any better suggestions I am happy to not lunch AD and just let mafia decide whether or not to NK him. I do definitely want to lunch someone though.
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@AvoidDeath
Sure, as long as you know who the captain is.
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@AvoidDeath
You claimed survivor right? I am also a survivor. That means you and I have different wincons. My wincon is to make sure I don't die, your wincon is to make sure you don't die.
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@AvoidDeath
Ok, so we should just partner with mafia/town and then let them destroy each other?
You do whatever you want. You and I are not on the same team.
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@AvoidDeath
Right. That and I legitimately would be fine with it if town won (somehow) as long as I survive and I see no reason to not be open and honest with everyone about my motivations.
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@AvoidDeath
You know that statement could bring down our alliance with the mafia...
It is an anti-SK alliance not a pro-mafia alliance. I really doubt they are going to need our help against the uber-underpowered town. The only real threat is the SKs. Luckily for us we have at least one person on the mafia team that is not a complete retard so I think they understand this.
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@PressF4Respect
My wincon requires me to not die, therefore it is in my best interest to convince people to not kill me.
The fact that what I suggested was genuinely good advice is just icing on the cake.
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Dear serial killers,
I hope you realize that your time is limited now that the entire player base is aligned against you. Here is a piece of advice, don't let your emotions decide your night actions tonight. I know it is tempting to kill of Grey because he is mafia and mafia is a threat to your survival. I know it is tempting to kill me off for being one of the people at the head of creating this coalition. Think twice before doing either of these things. You can still win this by just focusing on killing whoever Mharman put on your kill list. You only need to survive 2 NPs to do so. If you waste your first NP trying to play standard SK tactics rather than blitzing to victory as fast as you can then you risk your wincon becoming unachievable because someone else got to your targets first. If I or Grey are on your list then so be it, but if not then your best chance of winning is to just focus on your targets.
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@PressF4Respect
Town would want to get rid of mafia too.
I'm sure they would. They need to do so in order to win. I am not to concerned about what town wants though unless their interests align with mine. For now they do, we both want to kill off the SKs, after that though... *shrug*
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@PressF4Respect
So are we teaming with mafia against SK and town?
Well certainly against the SKs. After the SKs are dealt with I don't really care if town or mafia wins as long as I live.
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@PressF4Respect
I am not 100% convinced that he is an SK but it seems more likely that he is than anyone else given his desire to lunch the mafia and even if it was random (Though I just explained why it is not) then I consider it to be better than not lynching anyone for the reasons I have been staying all DP.
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@AvoidDeath
Everyone has been somewhat active except for oromagi. Assuming that everyone read that message (the mafia partnership invitation), 2 mafiosos would come out. Greyparrot has already came out, which either means if everyone read that message, a mafioso didn't come out, you are the second member of the mafia, Greyparrot was lying, or oromagi is the second member. It's all an if statement, but if you are the second member of the mafia- well played you really did pull off a nice acting job.
Assuming Grey is lying he will die tonight. Even if he is town doc the mafia can simply use their bus driver to direct the doc action away from him. Assuming he is telling the truth there is no need for his partner to come forward. I don't think it would hurt them to do so but there is no need for it.
Why are you voting for oromagi if you think he might be mafia?
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FUCK YOU AUTOCORRECT FOR TURNING THE WORD LYNCH INTO LUNCH EVERY FUCKING TIME. FUCK.
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@Speedrace
I'm also suspecting Disc is the second mafia
I'm genuinely not though, and I have already explained why I would have no problem coming forward if I was so there is little reason to suspect that I am lying. I am a survivor.
Also I am highly certain that Supa is a survivor so if you want to lunch between him and AD I would rather go with AD.
VTL AvoidDeath
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@LordLuke
My RFD and the given reasoning for it's removal (as well as my response to said reasoning) can be found in the comments section of the debate that I voted on:
Note that at the end of my RFD I say (and this is an exact copy-paste quote) "The rest of this RFD can be found in the comments section due to character limitations." So if you want to read the entirety of the RFD including the part where I explained my reasoning for awarding the source point you will have to dig through the comments a bit.
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I have only ever voted on one debate. I spent over two hours putting together an RFD. I put more effort into that RFD than I do for most of my own debate arguments. My vote was promptly reported and removed for "Not meeting CoC guidelines for a proper RFD".
Needless to say this has discouraged me from ever voting again.
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@Greyparrot
@SirAnonymous
Well then who are you guys liking for the next lynch target?
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@SirAnonymous
Take your vote off GP. Even if he is fake claiming the mafia will just shank him tonight, no need to waste our lynch.
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@Greyparrot
Fine I am mafia
Very well then.
Unvote
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If the SKs had a normal SK wincon then mafia would have an incentive to hide because they would be the SKs top target. That is not the case here though. If I was mafia I would definitely want to come forward. It would basically guarantee that I wouldn't be lynched as long as the survivors controlled the vote and after the SKs were taken care of (either killed or neutered) I would have time to hunt for townies among the survivors at my leisure.
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@PressF4Respect
This isn't a normal mafia game. In a normal mafia game town controls the vote, in this game the survivors control the vote.
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@Greyparrot
I thought you guys wanted to kill the town off since town is the weakest team on the board.
I can't speak for the others, they might want to kill of town, but I would personally prefer to murder the SKs ASAP due to my fear that I may be on their kill list.
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Come to think of it...
Dear mafia team,
Please come forward as mafia and join the survivors. If you claim now then you have nothing to worry about from town because town does not control the vote and can't NK, you have nothing to worry about from the SKs because the SKs are going to focus on killing the people on their list rather than trying to kill you (if you are on their list then fake claiming survivor won't save you from them anyway), and you have nothing to worry about from the survivors because the survivors would all much rather try to lynch SKs and joint win with a cooperative mafia. Even if you just have one of your guys come forward that would be fine. We really just need to start establishing some sort of alliance and us survivors can't 100% trust anyone that claims survivor but we can 100% trust anyone that comes forward as mafia because we know anyone fake claiming mafia will simply be shot by the mafia during the night phase. I hope that you will at least consider this idea and talk it over with each other in your PM and even if you decide to decline for whatever reason please remember to kill any fakers that might come forward claiming to be mafia because such a person is probably an SK if they do that. Thank you for your time.
Sincerely,
Your pal DD
P.S. plz no kill meh.
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@SirAnonymous
You might be right that he is not a survivor. If he is town I actually wouldn't mind letting him live for now and lynching someone else in order to increase our chances of hitting an SK.
@GP if you are town then now is the time to confess. I can't speak for the others but I will unvote you if you are town and tell us your role (doc or roleblocker). If you are mafia then we definitely want you to not be lynched this NP because we want the mafia to be alive hunting for SKs so confess in that case too but IDC what your role is if you are mafia.
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Therefore if you are a survivor then other survivors dying should not bother you.
Mafia and town should want more survivors to be alive but SKs and fellow survivors should not care either way.
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@Greyparrot
You realize that if you are a survivor and you die then you lose right? Even if other survivors survive. Survivors are not a team, they all win individually.
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Four posts, forty minutes, four votes.
Talk about zero to a hundred...
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@WaterPhoenix
Oh ya I'm stupid I meant survivors. So you're on the vtl team?
Very much so yes. As a survivor anything that reduces the likelihood of my death is a good thing for me.
In fact I will go ahead and VTL Greyparrot because of your reasoning in post 160.
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@Mharman
ATTENTION: once a serial killer can no longer meet their objective, or has already met their objective, they will forfeit their ability to kill. Forgot to mention that.
What happens to the SKs wincon in this case? Do they become survivors or are they forced to play out the rest of the game despite being unable to win?
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@WaterPhoenix
I think I see the logic here more than the vtnl side's argument of how killing power roles would be bad, cause the only power role that actually benefits town is roleblocker.
Well, mafia roleblocker is potentially helpful for survivors as well. Not very useful though. There is a 20% chance of them blocking an SK kill and a 9% chance of that kill being aimed at a survivor (assuming we vtnl, chance goes up a bit or down a bit if we lynch depending on the lynches flip). That makes a less than 2% chance that mafia will save you. There is about a 10% chance that they will save someone that is a survivor but you shouldn't really care about that too much. If you are a survivor then some other survivor dying does not affect you.
So yeah I would rather have the mafia roleblocker and town roleblocker be alive but the part of me that wants them alive is waaay smaller than the part of me that wants an SK to be dead or neutered (via killing their targets and disabling their kill ability).
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@Vader
Reading this DP, it looks like it is Survivors v Mafia
Yeah, it is an open Setup. Read OP for what roles are in the game.
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@PressF4Respect
If one side fulfills their objective (say, town eliminates mafia and SK) but dies later, would that still count as a win for them?
In the case of town and mafia the game ends immediately when either of those factions achieve their objective therefore making it impossible for them to 'die later'. There would be no 'later'.
It is less clear for SKs though so let's wait for Mharman on that point.
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@SirAnonymous
That post by PressF4 demonstrates that it is hard to joint-win with the SK due to their non-standard wincon but theath is flawed unless he is assuming a scenario where both town and mafia are eliminated because we can still joint win with one of those two factions.
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@ILikePie5
With us three eliminated we can effectively eliminate an SK killing ability.
I would prefer a politically-motivated lynch via lynching one of the people that are trying to VTNL (unless they can convince me that it is in my interest to VTNL).
If I can't get enough support from the pro-lynch squad to lynch someone in the anti-lynch squad then I would be willing to hear the arguments in favor of lynching someone else but I am unlikely to be happy with lynching at random.
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@SirAnonymous
Personally, I think good arguments can be made either way, but arguing that players should be suspected based on which camp they pick is ridiculous. No one knows how this set-up will work. No one knows which strategy is best. Consequently, no one is being scummy by picking one over the other.
I would agree in principle except that I have yet to hear any good arguments that VTNLing is pro-survivor. Press says he will give one and I trust that he will - He is not lying about having a debate argument due soon - but in the meantime how about you give your thoughts?
Also, are you claiming anti-SK survivor or just-trying-to-stay-on-everyones-good-side survivor? I was the latter for the first few pages then switched to being the former.
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@ILikePie5
I’d say Policy is an inactive, what say you?
No. Lynch either someone that is suspected of being a serial killer or someone that advocates a pro-SK VTNL strategy.
Why on Earth would we random lynch in this situation?
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@PressF4Respect
Let me also make it clear that I am very rarely in favor of random lynching and this is one of the times that I am not. I am in favor of lynching but not randomly.
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@Imabench
Hold on, NNN is about not eating nuts?
I thought it was about not 'going nuts' and running down the street in a chicken costume shouting crazy nutter things about the Illuminati and egging random buildings. I have been doing it all wrong this whole time!
I'll be right back. Now, where did I put that chicken costume?
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@PressF4Respect
Did you read what I wrote?
Yes, and was in the process of writing my response when you sent this lol.
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@PressF4Respect
What I was saying in my argument is that the problem with random lynching is that it adversely affects us as well.
It would be very difficult to run a classic "DDmafia scenario simulation (TM)" because of the large number of factions and the chance of killing roles choosing the same target to kill, etc. Difficult but not impossible. I won't do it now but might later.
Consider this though... There is a 40% chance that you are on a Serial Killers kill list. If they decide who to kill off of their list randomly that is a 20% chance of you not waking up tomorrow due to an SK killing you. There is also the chance that mafia might decide that you advocating a pro-SK VTNL makes it likely that you are an SK so they might shank you.
If you help secure a lynch lynch then there is a chance that we hit an SK and if we hit an SK then the chances of you being on an SK kill list drops to 20% and reduced the chance of the mafia thinking you are an SK by following an anti-SK strategy.
On the other hand I don't see how the death of anyone that isn't you would 'adversely affect' you. Could you be more specific by detailing a potential scenario as I just did?
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@PressF4Respect
Okay I have decided to adjust my strategy slightly in light of Mharmans answer to me. Rather than trying to not piss off the mafia or SKs I am going to follow what everyone else seems to be doing and be openly anti-SK. This is because I now know that the SK knows who their targets are, meaning they are unlikely to shoot me just for being against them and will probably instead shoot their targets (which might be me, but that is also a risk I take by not being anti-SK).
I still want to lynch today. VTNLing is, as others have said, extremely pro-SK.
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@ethang5
Haha, they are nothing if not persistent.
Doomsday is just around the corner... and always will be.
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@WaterPhoenix
At the moment there are three players that fall into my category one lynch preference but I don't want to start a wagon on any of them until all have been given a chance to read my message and change their minds.
Or they might change my mind. I am open to switching to a new strategy if another strategy seems more logical.
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@drafterman
This does certainly seem like a setup designed with the intent of having an interesting endgame doesn't it? Lol.
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@WaterPhoenix
I was writing a reason why but then realized that doctors probably wouldn't protect anyone but themselves
Right. I mean, it is possible that Mharman is one of those mods that don't allow docs to self-protect but if that is the case then the smart thing would be for the doc to just not protect anyone for fear of accidentally saving an SO from a mafioso or vice versa so your logic is still valid even in that case.
I'm open to a lynch, but who should we lynch? Are we just going to randomly vote?
In my case my lunch preference would be the following (from most preffered to least preffered):
1) Anyone insisting on a VTNL. They are going against my long-term survival strategy.
2) Any survivors whose strategy would create a likelihood of them eventually wanting me dead. Currently I don't think this describes anyone.
3) Anyone that appears to be lying about being a survivor.
4) If nobody in any of the above categories exists I am potentially willing to vote based on some other person's lynch preference.
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