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@ludofl3x
Which one of you is the true Christian, though?
Mopac and many others will be shocked if they ever squeak into the Christian Heaven, the variety of people, garments, colors of all types and cultures of all kinds who are in love with Jesus and abide in those teachings will set any snot nosed religious attitudes back a few notches. They won't be all Catholic lol, they won't all be carrying golden crosses and sprinkling holy water on each other walking around pompously judging other believers...there will be a wide spread array of all kinds of folks from all walks of life. The first thing they will probably notice is that the quality of these people go well beyond just what religious organization they happened to follow on Earth.
Religious beliefs and organizations don't make "true" Christians, it is the quality of heart and love of God. The willingness to sacrifice all aspects of themselves just to have a little bit more God within them and in their life.
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@DynamicSquid
Okay, interesting post.I have to be perfectly honest with you, I have very little knowledge in neuroscience or the stuff we're talking about. So, if you're getting confused like I am, just ignore the rest, but focus on this part...Unless there is proof otherwise (which to my understanding there isn't), we are the only things in the Universe that are the way we are (consciousness, awareness, or whatever you want to call it). The rest of space are just a bunch of atoms floating aimlessly around.
But, how do a bunch of atoms floating around aimlessly create intelligent processes, that is the question you need to focus on why? because it will take you beyond just accepting that processes just occur by themselves, in other words maybe there's a Creator....don't forget about energy, it's everywhere anything exists...energy is isolated to create form, why does that happen?
Also about the universe being one life form, are you referring to something similar to the Gaia theory? And if you are, then no. I don't think so.
I guess what I'm trying to get you to consider is the nature of awareness, being as I proposed like energy, part of the very fabric of the universe itself much like an ocean of awareness. Energy is ever present, it exists both within form and independent of form and is eternal. Interestingly God is proposed the very same way, and so my posts here are meant to show you what God is and how creation operates through first intelligence, not random atoms floating around. Intelligent processes happen through an awareness, an awareness of God that is.
But God doesn't have a physical body, so again we're back to a sort of conscious Reality that exists much like energy does. I know that sounds weird when you're used to the idea that a brain creates conscious beings but in spirituality, it is the other way around. Awareness comes before all other things, and we can determine this is true buy what I've been telling you. Energy creates intelligent processes because energy has awareness, and conscious activity produces energy so they actually co-exist. That is why energy is eve there and why it creates things.
Like I said before, unless there is proof otherwise, then we are the only beings out there like this. No Creator, or Gaia, or anything else.
That is a fair opinion/asumption, but not a very thoughtful one.
I believe in this highly due to the fact that our current Science disproves this, and that there is no evidence out there to support it.
But you forgot already that science has not disproved any of this, and actually is unable to disprove it. I believe we covered that in the first two exchanges.
I wish that I was more educated on this topic to give you a more detailed answer, and perhaps we could even start a debate on this, but I'm not. Sorry
Well, you don't have to be educated there's not much more even science can tell you. All you have to do is consider some things, and we use a common sense approach while not accepting conjecture. Maybe there is more to what I'm saying than you previously thought...
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@Stephen
Not really, why would I personally care about when and what is figurative and what is literal? Anyone that doesn't know the Bible uses figurative writing is basically ignorant. It weaves in and out throughout the whole book as I said. Analogies, parables, metaphors, figurative speech are a part of spiritual texts, not even just the Bible.
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@ludofl3x
I meant a citation in scripture so we can discuss what it's saying, not what other people believe.
And I said earlier, the focus is more learning the distinction between carnal cravings and more elevated ways of thinking. I mean why must you always fall back on what someone else said? I'm sayin, if there's any problem with jerking off it's not really that in an of itself. It's the control carnality can take on the individual. So, besides just masturbation the same premise extends to all other areas.
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@ludofl3x
Again, this is what is taught by Christianity, not me.
Every time you say that I'm going to ask for a citation from now on.
I don't know why anything that could create a universe would give a healthy sh1t about what one guy's doing with his junk, but the bible's all about it, quit jacking off, don't sleep with men, be a virgin till your married.
Being a virgin until you're married ain't a bad idea, but again these are just guidelines to achieve and to have better experiences. And some things are BS, it's just a part of an imperfect world we live in. Some things are just opinions in scripture, they may not have any real relevance to God, which is why you want to consider God directly and not necessarily through any religious dogma. However, religious texts are there to assist you, but you should already be confident in God on your own. Have your own relation and expression, after that if you feel the need to have a collective journey with others of the same belief that's your choice.
You're the only 'christian' saying it doesn't matter.
Wait a minute, make sure you stick with what I actually say. I did say I doubt the Creator would care about you jacking off, but there is a call to a higher level of living and thinking. You just make sure its not something that controls you, to where it is unhealthy or an obsession.
This seems rather tasteless for someone who's called another poster a troll for not being a real christian. As far as the gospels and epistles and their take on behavior, I promise you it's contradicted in the bible and by the teachings of the various churches, and it goes well against common sense. But true christians are supposed to believe it, at peril of their eternal soul.
Well you should read the NT and the Epistles for yourself and not worry about what others think. You come into this world alone and you leave it alone, brush it off and just consider some things.
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@ludofl3x
A ton of beautiful souls, but no Christians or Jews or Muslims because I choose to chill with the regular good people atheists.
Wow, is that really your mentality? only atheist are good souls? that says a lot but also goes to show you why there are many areas in creation not just a heaven and a hell for only one type of person.
Sounds pretty great, but definitely would not include Jesus, because that's not Christian heaven. Christian heaven is basically you forget who you are, you forget your family, and you sing praises of Jesus all the time for all eternity, you don't want anything at all. THAT planet sounds terrible, I think we can agree.
I don't know where you get any of that but okay. You never lose who you are or forget your earthly experiences no matter where you go. I don't know why you would hate Jesus so much he is quite an extraordinary fella, have you read the Gospels? at all ever? either way it's irrelevant because you are not forced to go anywhere you don't want to go.
I'm wondering where all the Christians who like to attack those who don't believe in anything are
They are in danger of their own actions, they don't get to inherit places of this kind of beauty if they make others feel bad about themselves.
, because they ought to be here disagreeing with you. LIke Mopac. Mopac, you think this guy's right or wrong about the planets heaven, existing in another universe that also has planets, and hindus go to their own heaven there?
Yes, good Hindus have their own heaven, you should examine their beliefs, so do Buddhists...
Some balls commenting on who's a true Christian or not, as it turns out.
Again, who thinks what about this and that is irrelevant to the truth of the matter. You want to get outside that, look at things other than the faults of others and errors in books.
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@ludofl3x
you can jack off all you want
Lol I seriously doubt the Creator cares whether or not you jack off, but there is a more elevated way to carry oneself and this includes the mind and emotions. It's more about learning the difference between carnality and the spiritual aspect of yourself. But why would God care about a little energetic discharge or release that God created in the first place? I mean there are other angles, I doubt if you are married your wife would want you jacking off to some other chick lol, I mean come on. You need to get more familiar with God on an individual level and stop with all this he said she said stuff.
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@ludofl3x
Anything you did before that, clean slate once you accept him. If you time it right, you can jack off all you want (this is a sin in every version of Christianity, it's like the one thing they agree on) so long as you get it out of your system before you (a) accept Jesus and (b) do it before you die, even like seconds before. It's not good people and bad people,
You need to read the Bible more son, especially the Gospels if you really believe this. The call on behavior in the Gospels and Epistles are second to none.
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@ludofl3x
What would I see there?
A ton of spiritual beings (souls), beautiful landscapes, trees and plants like you've never seen. The river of life flowing from the great throne room with the most beautiful horizon you could imagine. You would eventually see Jesus, a magnificent spiritual being and the cries of little children saying "here He comes here He comes!" with such a marvelous aura of light and color you could only hit the ground and weep at the sight of it. You would see happiness, hear laughter and joy, and encounter acceptance and love like you've never witnessed or felt.
You could literal breathe in the very love of God, the golden perfect light that fills the atmosphere to where you just never want to leave. The very atmosphere alone you could bask in for an eon without any cares or needs. You could go anywhere you like, visit great men of God and apostles, go see the wonderful variety of housing and buildings of all types. You could walk the infamous and translucent streets of pure gold, the gates embedded with all types of stones and diamonds ect ect these places like heaven are absolutely dynamite.
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@ludofl3x
Good to know that whatever the creator god is, not only did it create a system that resulted in sectarian violence and discrimination on earth
Humans are pretty dumb sometimes. Spirituality, in its true form is supposed to create unity. However, the real discrimination that should exist is the negative vs the positive sides of creation, not beliefs and differences in culture. Creation, including Earth COULD be a beautiful place if all religions left behind violence and discrimination and embraced the fullness of God, the beauty of variations, flavors and cultures.
, but that the system extends into the afterlife! Great job Jesus. If I had a spaceship that could traverse the meaningless emptiness of space, and I had the right coordinates, theoretically, could I travel to this actual planet while still alive? What would I see there? What a fascinating fiction.
If you left the physical body yes, that could be possible. But we're talking about a parallel universe with its own planets. The subtle body, or spirit body would essentially be invisible to your physical sight. Do you have a real problem that societies extend beyond the physical plane? if so why?
Can we agree you're not Christian? There are literally no Christian doctrines that say heaven is a planet (it's a DIMENSION! duh!) nor are there any non-Christians in it, according to the doctrine.
Actually Revelations describes the measurements of this planet.
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@ludofl3x
I'm not mocking,See, if you start your morning by masturbating, don't repent immediately, walk out of your apartment and get hit in the head by a falling AC unit, you go to hell. If on the other hand you are a concentration camp guard who learns he's got cancer and is dying in the hospital, you repent moments before death, you get to go to that party in the sky!
Sure pal, if you say so.
I'm just pointing out traditional Christian orthodoxy. Suddenly you're no true Christian either
I'm included because I've been applying it to myself, but I'm also not limited to only that because I know the reality of what all this entails and I don't limit myself to any one belief system. But I've been applying the things in the Bible since I was a kid on my own accord.
, it seems, but I think you said you don't claim to be a CHristian (which means, I'm afraid, according to Christianity you and I are headed the same direction).
I've already explained this. Sometimes I feel like a broken record talking with you. I just got done saying hell is reserved for.....
And you mean at what point am I willing to just accept what you claim, then answer is simple: when a single shred of verification that it's true is presented, as with all other propositions in life.
No, I said if it makes sense...and is logical then just go with it. Or at least consider it. If I'm saying things that are not logical, and do not make sense just disregard it.
So that explains why he made Christians think they're the only ones going to heaven?
It's really irrelevant what they think, they can't think someone into heaven or hell lol. And I don't know that God makes anyone think a certain way, there's a lot of nonsense in spiritual texts, in other words they can have errors.
I don't understand. Or does he segregate based on faith? Can atheists, avowed atheists who live a good life, get in even as we go to our grave?
Atheists are no different than any other soul, but if you are not in agreement with Christianity that's probably not where you will end up. Coming back to earth is always an option. In other words why would you go to a heaven you believe is all nonsense?
wtf is the point of religion exactly if it's really just a 'good people go here, bad people go there' system, and not one where you have to have the right paperwork, or have to follow strange rules that don't really make sense?
If it's not good people go here and bad people go there what should it be? you mock here....
"This is not a Christian classification of hell. Criminals and those who commit atrocities are as welcome in Heaven as your pastor would be, provided they meet the criteria that they accept Jesus before they die. See, if you start your morning by masturbating, don't repent immediately, walk out of your apartment and get hit in the head by a falling AC unit, you go to hell. If on the other hand you are a concentration camp guard who learns he's got cancer and is dying in the hospital, you repent moments before death, you get to go to that party in the sky!
"
And then you mock what I say, which one will you NOT mock? If you want to go to advanced place in creation you have to work on your spiritual progression, that doesn't mean that if you're an atheist you go to hell, would you like that better? perhaps what I'm saying then has validity to it as opposed to the traditional Christian belief that you will probably go to hell for eternity. Is that what you would like me to say? that's not true though...
Like, I'm not out stoning non-virgin girls who get married in front of their dads, that is disobeying the word of god according to the book. So is me not doing that a plus or a minus?
I've told you many times now, that you don't have to accept anything absurd or that you know is stupid. Books and religions do not dictate your relation with God.
You only see mockery because you can recognize the ridiculousness of Christian doctrine, to your credit, :)
It's just some misconceptions that's it. There is a lot of beauty to the Gospel as well. And no, you do literally mock.
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@ludofl3x
Why the need for more than one heaven?
Also, as we have already discussed before, there isn't just one planet when you leave this earth. There are many, many more planets. Therefore there is no need to clump every single soul into one planet. The Christian heaven is an actual planet, but there are countless areas of creation where the soul can inhabit. For example, a good Muslim wouldn't want to collectively exist with a bunch of Christians lol, no, it goes where its preferred choice of society is. Likewise a Christian might not want to spend an eon with a bunch of Hindus...ect ect..
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@ludofl3x
Why the need for more than one heaven?
Why the need for varying societies, cultures, traditions and ways of expressing God? Answer...
The Creator is a God of variety and flavors, that should be obvious.
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Special knowledge! Your favorite. :)
Sure, if you say so.
This is not a Christian classification of hell. Criminals and those who commit atrocities are as welcome in Heaven as your pastor would be, provided they meet the criteria that they accept Jesus before they die.
However not many people including Christians know how creation is put together so they are forced to accept things that aren't really true. Hell is reserved for those who commit crimes, atrocities and who refuse to learn from their mistakes (even then there are levels of hell, and not all eternal).
But creation has many heavens, and those are reserved for the righteous, not just those who believed a certain way, but those who LIVED a certain way.
I don't care if it's not a Christian classification.
See, if you start your morning by masturbating, don't repent immediately, walk out of your apartment and get hit in the head by a falling AC unit, you go to hell. If on the other hand you are a concentration camp guard who learns he's got cancer and is dying in the hospital, you repent moments before death, you get to go to that party in the sky!
See what I mean by you never listen, and you always mock instead? At what point are you willing to learn something?
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@ludofl3x
I think it's less people and more dogmatic an issue. The people, individuals, largely pick and choose what they want to believe or follow within their own denominations anyway, but I feel like there's at least a little anxiety in that if you're not in the right denomination, Christians want to believe their god will still let them into heaven because while they ate meat on Fridays, for example, they SURELY wouldn't burn in hell over the fact that their parents didn't know it was a problem. It allows for a more liberal interpretation of who can get in, but it also calls into serious question what the point of all the denominations is in the first place...which is a thread that when pulled inevitably leads to "why would this be important at all," and besides, there's plenty of non-CHristians who can burn in hell instead, right? Like Muslims, no matter what, they're not Christians, they don't revere Jesus, so clearly, if god's real and the whole Jesus thing is real, then they're definitely burning in hell. Man, woman and infant. At least that's what the book and the dogma say. In the end I don't think Christians really believe that belief in any one myth is a deal breaker for Jesus, but they'd rather have the bad people held accountable somehow regardless of faith.
Yes, I agree with some of that. However not many people including Christians know how creation is put together so they are forced to accept things that aren't really true. Hell is reserved for those who commit crimes, atrocities and who refuse to learn from their mistakes (even then there are levels of hell, and not all eternal).
But creation has many heavens, and those are reserved for the righteous, not just those who believed a certain way, but those who LIVED a certain way. That is a great misconception among religious groups. There are countless societies that exist outside of this world. The Creator is a God of variety and flavors, that should be obvious.
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@ludofl3x
Like I said, the topics are pretty obvious. Don't ya think? go look at his list of them. He's most likely a non-believer playing an idiot to make us all look bad.
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@ludofl3x
Christians in here all think their specific denomination is the only 'true' Christianity anyway
This is a serious problem within Christianity though I agree, but it's not everybody. Most the Christians I know aren't really like that, at least it is not there main priority or issue. I think these are more isolated cases than general reality.
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@ludofl3x
He's not my style, but he's posting about the topics at hand, and he's not more or less abrasive than a handful of other 'agitators.' You seem to be calling him a troll based entirely on disagreeing with him. That's less than generous.
That is based on his list of topics, they are obviously antagonistic. If you think he's being serious about beating his kids and Jesus being a pervert I question your opinion. If he is serious, and is in fact a Christian the guy has serious problems.
This topic, by the way, is stupid because the Christians in here all think their specific denomination is the only 'true' Christianity anyway, and none ever bother debating each other on the matter.
Well I consider myself a Christian and I can say that's not a true statement. Even though Mopac doesn't follow this, we are supposed to be in unity with one another, or try to create unity. And we do that by not judging each other, but loving each other. Brother D is always touting himself as the true Christian and we are all satans followers lol, he doesn't represent Christianity even if he is serious.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
for me, when you try and apply infinite regression, that throws a monkey wrench into it or me.
Well all knowledge and processes (all things existing) begin with an omnipresent, static, fixed Reality...out of which all things originate. It's from this state or Reality, that all processes begin so there isn't really an infinite regression per say and actually begin from a greater state to a lesser state of existence consciously speaking. These processes are explainable and easy to understand if you can grasp the nature of consciousness.
God is the full state of knowing, existing and awareness and all things that come out of the Reality are lesser states. Consciousness by nature is much more like energy and exists at endless levels of awareness, but these are just varying frequencies of awareness isolated from a full state of awareness.
I encounter a lot of people at work, when I see some, the lives they had/have, physical issues/illnesses, I often wonder about how our experiences are so vastly different good/bad, why?
Our experiences are correlated with what the individual soul needs to learn or experience and our conscious states of existence are on varying levels of awareness. The soul actually agrees or knows before hand where it will go in creation, but loses its freedom to choose if it leads a prior poor life or an unsatisfactory example. When you understand the full implications of an eternal soul, these temporal lives lose their immediate perspective of what they may entail.
all the experiences I will never have, the ones I will have are infeticimile to the possible ones. Given that, why bother at all (from God's perspective) it's trivial compared to what we have discussed.
Because each experience is tailored to you personally, it is your own journey and it's how you learn about yourself and how your soul progresses. It's through these little experiences that this can even happen even if they seem trivial at first glance. Outside of that having experiences opposed to no experience is not fun at all. Existing in a state of consciousness with no way to express your creativity and desires is a prison. This is about learning as well as having fun, but learning can include very bad situations, and learning from your mistakes can be a great price to pay depending on who you are. All in all the experience of life is all the soul really has, and it will embrace that, and at some point it is better than not.
it's difficult because there's so much we don't know for context.
That depends on who you ask I guess.
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@Stephen
But then who is the "ancient serpent" of Revelation referring to- Revelation 12:9, 20:2. It clearly states there that it is the same " Devil, and Satan".
"The great dragon was hurled down-that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him."
First of all, it doesn't say anything about the snake in Genesis, and as I said....IF the devil does in fact exist, he certainly would be considered a being who probably tempts man. And I went over that. However, the devil doesn't speak through animals to temp people, so again I believe the serpent is a symbolic rendering not a literal one either way we go. Even with a figurative rendering the serpent could be symbolic of the devil but I don't believe that fully conveys the meaning and is someone absurd.
And who are the Devil and Satan
According to traditional Christian thinking it would be a being who has chosen to oppose God. I don't know if they are the same being, but generally they are accepted as so, and according to that verse there would be no reason to believe otherwise.
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@Stephen
There's no logical reason to reject anything I've said,
Have I done that?
I was speaking in reference of those who have assumed the account a literal.
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@Stephen
Who was the serpent that had tempted Eve in the Garden of Eden? Notice I ask who and not what.
Why do you always repeat the same question I previously answered? If it is a figurative illustration there isn't a WHO, it's what the serpent is representing (temptation). I did say however, many times the devil is representative of one who tempts man, so that's probably where that idea came from. The specific question you are asking doesn't pertain to me, because I'm not a Biblical literalist so I don't believe there was ever a literal talking snake or a who that spoke through it. All the illustrations and objects within that account are representative of other meanings. And I went over some of those things already.
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@ludofl3x
Neither is Noah's Ark nor the creation myth, they're presented as literal, too. As is the bear killing the kids, as is Jephtha, as is Exodus, as is Sampson...it's only the central myth,
Actually you should ask me about those things...the first few chapters of Genesis is certainly figurative, you can take away from it whatever you want. You are not required to believe a certain way.
which contains a guy rising from the dead after three days (again it doesn't explain the mechanics of why this somehow absolves all sins for all people or why it was necessary, and it contains details that are strikingly similar to other messianic myths from contemporaneous cultures, all of which you disregard as false, I presume).
Are you serious? you have the memory of a flea lol. I've tried to tell you numerous times that I study all forms of spirituality not just the Bible. However I can explain to you the mechanics of what Jesus did and what it means. But I am not sure you really want me to.
How do we decide? Is the burning bush literal? Or that time that guy wrestled god and won? The time that guy's two daughters, Lot I think, banged him because they decided they had to? The lady with the pillar of salt (also Lot Ibelieve)?
Many things in the OT I believe are probably metaphorical stories that have a spiritual meaning or basis. Now we all know there's a lot of literal history involved, but most of the stories are pretty obvious what is figurative and what is literal. And again, it's all pretty irrelevant to you on a spiritual level if you get nothing out of it. It's just a book dude, you take what is useful and discard what is not useful.
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@ludofl3x
Would this new knowledge be...SPECIAL knowledge? Sorta sounds like it. Please describe the 'new' way of learning and why it's so different from the traditional way, maybe?
How could it be special knowledge? when in fact everyone has access to it? I'm not saying anything new or something that is special.
A new way of learning regarding you, would be that of the spiritual aspect of yourself. It's no different than learning anything else, as we discussed before. But you have to understand the nature of spirituality (being beyond the physical sense perception), that's pretty much it. But you can't let in new knowledge if you always reject it, put it down or scorn it. Ask questions, be willing to apply things and consider what I say, what other sources say. If it makes sense, if it is logical just go with it.
when was the last one?
Miracles happen on personal levels probably more than you would think. Miracles aren't really there to be recorded and examined that is not their purpose. I would consider miracles many things, not just raising people from the dead, they are the removing of obstacles in a persons personal life.
Depends on what brand of Christianity you subscribe to. Or more accurately, which one your parents were into.
Religions are not in control of what you believe, they don't have any say in your relations with God. They are just there as a means to connect collectively and can be an active role in assisting you. I don't subscribe to anything my parents did, they don't dictate my beliefs. You as an individual have an individual responsibility spiritually speaking, you are also free as an individual with God.
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@ludofl3x
Don't question it, it just is
Question everything actually, but at some point you have to stop being a skeptic so you can allow for new knowledge, new ways of learning. You don't seem to have any flexibility or an open mind when it comes to God and spirituality, you're just closed off. That's not good, you don't want to be controlled by a false world view and ideology.
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@ludofl3x
but the important parts, namely the one story in the book about God's son rising from the dead, that is TOTALLY LITERAL.
Two things, there's not really anything figurative about it. BUT, it could be, it just doesn't seem to have any real meaning behind it if it is. It's just not presented in a figurative way.
Miracles can occur (even though rare) because of how creation is set up from the Godhead down to the physical world. Things in the physical realm can be manipulated because of the higher qualities of energy from the more advanced levels of creation. And since everything is energy at one level, these energies can be arranged and rearranged in whatever way God wants it. If you examine NDE's many of them are people coming back into their bodies long after brain death. Or even from incredibly damaged bodies.
Either way, its okay for you to decide. The only thing important is that you apply what is applicable. You won't be damned because you weren't able to accept a few miracles.
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@zedvictor4
Therefore isn't the whole biblical mythology (hypothesis) including god, just a figurative representation of the unknown.
No, not at all. God is literal, it's just easier to communcate spiritual truths using analogies and metaphorical language in some cases.
The unknown being a creative and subsequent process (material evolution) of development.
Creation IS a process, yes. But these are processes of the Creator. It is not unknown, I've been sharing them here for quite some time.
After all, the biblical stories including God were all derived from the imaginations of people.
Lol, well now I know why you assume what you do. But thanks for the opinion.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
the possibilities are astounding if you try to comprehend it all with an open mind (imo),
Yes they are, having an open-mind and being flexible are good qualities especially if a person wants to be intellectually honest. You come across as a good man.
not that I can even begin to really comprehend it.
Ask me any questions, any at all. I can take you as far as you want to go. Creation is not really that complicated, it's just incredible dynamic. From the Creator, to the soul, into creation.... there's a science behind it all.
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@Stephen
Could you start a thread on this and explain a bit more?
Possibly, I have to go to work but maybe later. Or you can just ask me specific questions.
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@Mopac
"The soul is the breath of God that endures being mixed with what is of the dust."
SOUL-
the spiritual or immaterial part of a human being or animal, regarded as immortal.
the immaterial essence, animating principle, or actuating cause of an individual life
a person's total self
an active or essential part
comprises the mental abilities of a living being: reason, character, feeling, consciousness, memory, perception, thinking, etc. Depending on the philosophical system, a soul can either be mortal or immortal
In Judaism and in Christianity, only human beings have immortal souls
There is the pure soul, the Spirit of God in each individual, which is ever-existing, ever-conscious, ever-new Bliss. The soul, as God’s reflection, has the same qualities as God.
an entity which is regarded as being the immortal or spiritual part of a person and which, having no physical or material reality, is credited with the functions of thinking, willing, and choosing
the spirit of a dead person, thought of as separate from the body and leading an existence of its own
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@ethang5
When you put it that way, it's staggering how much he loses by being closed, angry, and bitter.
Yeah I know, the soul loses grasp and understanding of what it truly is and its own origins once it enters the womb. It then takes on its own perceptions through the souls own experiences. So even though the soul itself is pure like God, once the soul becomes identified with the physical body, mind and emotions it can get quite dirty. The soul then has to rely on God to be freed from that false identity, until then they will most likely be closed, angry and bitter especially and ironically towards God, their own origins.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
it quickly gets mind blowing for me. looked up the other night, it was clear, just thinking about how little we actually know, even though what we do know is so much more than hundreds of years ago or how much we can see, makes us look so insignificant.
BUT, we do know a lot and actually even though it can be, creation is not supposed to be some mystery. We have access to all things God, you, I and everybody else are connected to that Reality.
I guess so long as there is change, the different possibilities (dimensions) would also continue and even grow. I believe that is one of the "dimensions"
Yeah I think so too, everything is in a state of evolving in a way including the individual soul. Having said that I think the created "dimensions" are already set, but like Legos they can be arranged and rearranged as well.
it seems many of these are explained and seen from a single point of view or as an individual. How that relates, intergrades or has any role etc with others I haven't heard.
As I said earlier, you are connected at every level of creation from the Godhead down through all the dimensions. You just don't know it because your soul is confined to a physical body within the physical realm, so what you perceive is through this body like looking through a mask....if you were to pull away from that mask you would be perceiving through a different level. You actually have several "masks" or what are known as subtle bodies that cover your conscious soul. For example, when you leave the physical body you will then be present in the astral body within the astral dimension. This can happen several more times.
some religions, I seem to recall, describe different levels of heaven, a hierarchy where you can go down at will but must work or earn to go up.
Very good, and also correct. There's also different levels of hell, and in between earth and these hells is what is known as the ghost realm. This is like an intermediate area where not so good souls are cast to determine their future dwelling. People see these spirits all the time. But yeah, once you progress to a higher more elevated part of creation you are free to travel "down", but an immature soul can do damage to a higher dimension so they must progress first.
these ideas seem rather antisocial than social which is strange since we are generally social beings.
I don't think so, it's more an unknown territory but certainly not antisocial. It will become more known and discussed in time. People don't generally think about these types of things because they are more focused on what they immediately perceive. But God is quite tricky lol, as well more creative than most would assume.
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@Dynasty
If I had to guess I would say he's probably an ex-Christian that had overbearing religious parents and now he is probably an angry Atheist trying to mock and make Christians look bad, using scripture as the tool to accomplish that. So a troll in other words.
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@SirAnonymous
Then what is figurative, if not a talking snake?
And people being formed from dust? tree of knowledge of good and evil....flying swords and women being made with another mans ribs lol? that was previously formed from dirt...
This is all symbolic and figurative use of language...
The same goes with the very first chapter of Genesis, that is not how God creates worlds, that is just a mental image and picture of creation the authors were trying to portray, it's not literal. Creation is actually created through processes, the Genesis account is just a way of relaying the concept of creation, not the actual literal processes.
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@SirAnonymous
And people being formed from dust? flying swords and women being made with another mans ribs lol? that was previously formed from dirt...
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@SirAnonymous
Because it isn't obviously figurative.
Then what is figurative, if not a talking snake? is there anything in my first post you disagree with? analogies and metaphors ARE obvious, this is one of those instances. But you're free to believe the devil makes animals talk, I can't stop that.
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@SirAnonymous
and the Bible doesn't say a lot about what he can and can't do.
That's where we use common sense and appeal to real life.
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@SirAnonymous
You're free to believe the account is literal of course, but you do know that the Bible uses both forms of language right? actually the Bible uses all different forms of writing styles. So why would you force a literal application to obvious figurative writing?
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@SirAnonymous
The demon-possessed people in the NT.
I meant can you give me an example where animals speak. Not in scripture.
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@SirAnonymous
Sorry. Your bio said other for religion, so I thought you weren't.
I'm not your average fundamentalist no, and my beliefs aren't limited to just the Bible. But Christianity is my foundation.
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@ludofl3x
Well as I don't make the assumption that anything that hasn't been demonstrated is real, I don't assume a soul to begin with.
You don't have to assume the soul, the knowledge and evidence have been around for quite some time. However you would have to assume we don't have one from an ideology that freely admits to having incomplete knowledge about consciousness. The soul has been demonstrated since spirituality rose.
I'm not on the same plane of existence or realm or whatever as you I guess with all that special knowledge.
LMAO! Alright at least you are paying attention. It's not special knowledge though, you are from God Itself and have access to anything anyone else does. It is part of your journey to learn and experience everything the Creator has to offer.
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@Stephen
The soul? What is the soul?
It's your conscious being that exists independent of the physical body. This is the part of you God created and sent into creation where your parents where a part of forming your physical layer. You are an expression of the Creator, you are from God's very own heart and soul.
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@Stephen
And he hasn't related or equate Satan Or the Devil at all to this serpent in the Garden.
Lets say Satan or the Devil does in fact exist, they can certainly be a part of tempting people, but my assessment still stands. We know snakes can't talk like humans or talk at all, and nowhere do we see IRL Satan making animals speak. We also know the devil is not omnipresent, temptations take on all forms with all people in many different ways. So temptation doesn't belong to the devil, animals don't talk, the devil can't make animals speak. But I will readily admit that spirits can manipulate human souls, no question about it, but that is not relevant to talking animals lol. I'm sure my assessment is correct in what I wrote. It makes sense from all angles.
There's a ton of symbolism in the Adam and Eve story.
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@SirAnonymous
Probably, or just a random snake that the devil was speaking through.
Can you give us an example IRL where this happens at all ever? or did "the devil" just have the power to make a snake talk just for Genesis? or, better yet read my analysis of the account.
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@SirAnonymous
He's not a Christian, though. He thinks that all religions have some truth, but none are completely right.
I've been a Christian probably longer than most people here Sir. I've been studying the Bible since I was a young kid. And yes, other religions have good insights, the Bible is not the only source of knowledge.
To him, anything can be metaphorical.
Lol, the Bible alternates between literal and figurative throughout the entire Book.
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@Stephen
I couldn't be sure I was right though. This is why I say, it has never for me, been Satisfactorily answered. And a perfect example of what I mean is given above at post #2 by the great biblical wordsmith himself EtrnlVw.He tells us the serpent is only "symbolic". and is " only representative of the forms of temptation mankind faces". Is he not correct?
There's no logical reason to reject anything I've said, everything within the text remains intact. Even if people assumed all this figurative language is literal they can change their mind right now.
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@ludofl3x
If only this were possible, it'd help clear up a lot! The problem with introducing the possiblity that it was a metaphor means that all other supernatural claims in the bible, including the resurrection of Jesus, the central myth of Christianity, is ALSO a metaphor (his spirit lives on in us, therefore it's kind of like he's back from the dead, right?). There's no clear way in the bible to delineate that two.
Actually it can be both, just as with many spiritual texts the usage of language alternates between literal and figurative...analogies, metaphors, symbolic ect ect. It's just the way they communicated back then. Even if we say much of Genesis is metaphoric the message of the account is not lost, it stands either way. But since we know snakes never had voice boxes and talked like humans this is a no-brainer. And nowhere do we see IRL that "Satan" has the power to make animals talk like humans lol.
I would say common sense goes along way deciphering what is literal and what is figurative in scripture. Now, had I said it was figurative but was unable to explain what the meaning then is, that is another story. Then you could say BS, but notice how my claim fits perfectly with the whole scenario. So did the authors really want us to believe a snake spoke like a human or does my assessment make sense? same goes with Adam and Eve, were they the first humans that were formed from dust of the ground or are they symbolic representatives of Mankind as a whole? since we know that humans existed prior to Adam and Eve this again is a no-brainer, on top of that it makes much more sense.
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@ludofl3x
Because he's dead
That is of course if you make the assumption that the soul does not survive a physical death.
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@SirAnonymous
I know, it was meant more as an insult. Harikrish is the only other doofus I've seen call Jesus a pervert with the same set of scriptures. But only a pervert could interpret such passages as something perverted. This user just likes to provoke people.
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@BrotherDThomas
Sure thing Harikrish.
child like
Yeah, that's exactly what all your topics are like. Act like a child, get childish responses.
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