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@Outplayz
If you like, or endorse calling others deluded then you are weak TBH lol, it's not about me defended it, it's the position of the other that is weak. Because it doesn't allow for honest discourse. Perhaps you should rethink that. I'm not saying ban everyone that says it, I'm saying we should raise the bar of intellectual debate, I'm surprised you didn't get that. What's a safe space? calling others deluded to avoid content or protecting the value of discourse?
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Do WE want to raise the level of discourse in forums (or this forum) in general? it seems the more serious the topic the more people label others deluded....but is this an intellectual cop-out? I think so, calling others deluded is the perception of the accuser it doesn't always project reality or truth and more than always is an excuse to avoid content, I believe there can be better debate on all sides. This epidemic is nonsense.
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Labeling others deluded has become a real epidemic in debate and discussion forums and is unproductive by all measures, immature and should be banned as a reference of debate as an accusation of the opposing party. Anyone can claim the other person is deluded and it happens all the time, it gets in the way of productive communication and debate. It should be a universal rule in forums that anyone who stoops to the level of calling others deluded has forfeited their position and is not worthy of intellectual interaction in that exchange.
It's contrary to intellectual integrity.
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This "deluded" crap gets real old and annoying from members to deal with all the time, we just got rid of one of em. Does anyone know how irritating it is to have an adult discussion with someone who thinks everyone else is deluded? and or not have love of the truth lol? come on guys, we're trying to raise the level of this place to something above the norm....
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@Mopac
Those who receive not a love of The Truth are cursed with strong delusion.People who are strongly deluded tend to suffer. This is an observable fact.
What has this to do with what I wrote? how does this relate to saying we all deserve hell? If you want to address the contents of what I wrote that would be nice. If not I'd rather you not reply with something that has nothing to do with my questions. And, it always seems like you are asserting who loves truth and who doesn't, why do you feel the need to do that? Are you one of those who receives not the love of the "Truth"...or is it everyone else? or maybe you should make it clearer, or better yet stick to addressing content.
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@Paul
Your comment makes no sense at all.
Which one? I'd be glad to make sense of it for ya. Usually what I write is pretty straight forward and easy to get so I'm doubting it makes no sense.
Are you religious or something?
Lol you just figured that out in the religious section?? I would more so classify myself as spiritual, even though they go hand in hand sometimes "religious" portrays something fundamentalist in nature.
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@ethang5
Could those relationships between the notes be what is/brings about evil?
Nope, the only thing "evil" that could come through music would only be through the composer in the form of energy. No music, no notes and no tones have a conscious awareness so it's impossible for any relationship between notes to be evil, in any arrangement or even have a negative energy without the transfer of it from the composer. So again it has nothing to do with music itself or notes but the energy of the composers intent.
Can't I make an eerie or scary sounding piece of music that's not evil? of course I could, I could make a Halloween song for fun that sounds scary....I could use scary music with lyrics that portray something else. Dark sounding music is not always evil either, many of the songs I love have a darker tone to them but they certainly are not evil. This kinda goes back to what I wrote above, that eerie and scary don't always mean evil. So it's the intent behind the composer that transfers any negative vibes or influence that could be tangible.
Would you classify "evil" as being a moral element? if so how can tones and notes have any morality? that's kind of what I've been saying, tones and notes have no morality or morals......they have no intentions or desires and therefore cannot be evil.
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@keithprosser
It's okay I was once an eighties kid too, but luckily I was more of a later 80's kid when I started to appreciate music. Oh wait, that puts me in the glam rock era! when I was a young boy teenage chicks were wearing cut off jeans, neon shirts and crying to "Every Rose Has its Thorn"....lol, that song cracked me up in your link.
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Ethang do you play any instruments, guitar or something?
Not that you aren't aware but all composers pull from the same universal selection of notes with different instruments and they arrange those notes in a way which conveys what they to want convey. But, I could use thunder and an eerie sky scene to convey something dark as well but neither the sky nor the thunder are evil or even "dark". I could even use the same instruments and even the same notes of an eerie song and convey something majestic and divine (again this is all the obvious).
If I were to play an A chord (major) on the guitar it would sound like a bright happy note, on the other hand if I switch that note to an Am (minor) it sounds creepy, or eerie, it has a more dark sounding tone to it. Now I can do many things with that note, I can use it with other minor notes and have a really dramatic sounding piece.....on top of that I can take an Am or an Em and add distortion to it, I can play it really heavy and crazy. I can add any effect to that note and emphasize the emotion or feel of my creation. But again, this is all playing with inanimate notes, creating the illusion of something "scary". On top of me selecting darker sounding tones I can add lyrics, and those lyrics could portray anything I wish. But again, are the actual words I'm using evil in and of themselves? or is it just the intent behind it?
Anyways it's an interesting topic, I just think it would help to make the distinction between certain notes, music and note structures and the actual intent of the composer or the nature of the composer. As I said already, the final composition could carry/transfer the musicians energy but the material used to compose it is neutral. Someone just having fun could create a Halloween song making it "sound" creepy or "evil", but it's not really evil in and of itself, it just gives the impression of something creepy. Am I answering your initial question lol? I can be a bit anal in my responses but I usually have a point to be made. If you're asking me can negative energies in a composed piece of music have a negative influence I would say yes, but it's not the tones or instruments. If you're asking me if I think certain vibrations and tones are inherently evil then my answer is an obvious no.
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This may be irrelevant but two points I want to bring up....."struck dumb" simply meant the man could not speak until the prophecy was fulfilled. Point number two is we're talking about AN ANGEL OF GOD...not some street preacher. If an actual ANGEL appeared to you pronouncing what was to come to pass why would anyone doubt that or even question the announcement? it seems to me if an angel appeared to someone with a word that would allow for faith to be applied no? before I would be questioning the word, I would be questioning the appearance lol. TBH it was a small punishment of what should have been an obvious acceptance. But then again this is if we are taking it literally.
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@ethang5
In your OP you asked this....
"So my question to you is, can music itself be evil? Are certain note structures wrong in and of themselves?"
I'm just making the distinction between certain note structures and the composers themselves. If we make that clarification we can have a more precise communication.
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@ethang5
So you're saying a musical composition could be evil?
Let me ask you this, so I know that you are getting the distinction.....let's say an "evil" composer put together a song of his choice of notes/arrangement......and let's say that I played the same tune with the same notes.....would you say that both of those performances were "evil"?
I guess what I'm saying is that music and tones in and of themselves are not evil, but negative energies can be transferred through artists or composers. I can play an eerie sounding song and yet I would not classify it as evil, do you get the distinction I'm making or is it irrelevant? I can take the same instruments and the same notes and use them to create something completely different. In a nutshell it completely depends on the composer, much in the same way guns are not evil, but they can be used by someone of evil intent.
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@mustardness
Let me make it real simple for ya, go back and read my first response and either.....ask me a question like an adult, or two.....explain to me why I'm wrong with anything of substance and or commonsense, an explanation. Then I have something to work with. Otherwise leave your insults elsewhere, or go play in another forum that you can handle.
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@mustardness
you offfered noting/zip/nada of any valid,significant, rational, logical common sense,
Wrong, I began with a platform. YOU offered nothing but insults. That is not how we determine who is speaking nonsense. It very well may be you, and I'm confident in that. Now would you like to add anything of value or just run your mouth?
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@mustardness
You have nothing /zip/nada of any significant value that is worth dealing with. Hot air finger-tips. Sad :---(
And how sad you never debated or asked anything at all. So how would you know? All you had to offer was "nutcases", you're going to have to do better than that. Any rational adult would have asked me what or why of anything I wrote.
But the concept of a universal mind, projected from a universal awareness has been around as long as humans practically. So why is it so "nutcasey" for you to deal with? we want members who contribute content not insults. If you can't handle a basic Theistic principle why are you here discussing religion?
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@Stephen
American astronomer, astrophysicist, astrobiologist, cosmologist, author, science popularizer, and science communicator in astronomy and other natural sciences, says ;.
And my post and answer said...
"Stars exist for the purpose of seeding the universe, where planets can inhabit life."
Yes, we are star stuff, as well as conscious/soul stuff. Starz keep the universe alive, not the conscious soul. But of course, star "dust" is what seeds our universe.
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@ethang5
Could music that elicits feelings that it is evil be because it is evil?
Here is the interesting thing, the final composition could inherent the energy of the composer, and in that light of evaluating this, you may have a more precise point being made. I'll give you the composition but not the notes or tones in themselves.
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@ethang5
I get you, but I'm not the one conflating eerie and evil. Horror movies all deal with evil and are almost always eerie and spooky. So is Halloween. It is people who associate evil and spooky.
Yeah I get it, but the nature of what we are discussing calls for specifics and it's getting in the way of a clear cut answer. As I said, things can appear and sound eerie but that doesn't always mean that its evil. I think you get that so no need to harp on it.
I know music is just vibrations, but it still can elicit certain emotions and perceptions in people. Could music that elicits feelings that it is evil be because it is evil?
No, I don't think so because notes have no conscious nature as we discussed....Yes it can elicit emotions and perceptions because of the composer not the tones necessarily, because the same notes one were to use in a horror song, I can use for a romantic composition. Notes have that quality about them, they can be used to invoke many things, all with the same tones being used. I think you would have better luck targeting the composition or the composer, not the tones.
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@Mopac
The soul comes from the heart of God, why would you (or anyone) deserve hell? doesn't that sound ridiculous in the light of a Divine Being? in which all beings come out of? souls don't "deserve" anything until they commit what it is they are deserving of. I know the doctrine that all souls are inherently evil is popular, but it's a major misconception. The soul is as clean as the day it left the heart of God, the two are of the very same nature.
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@ethang5
We all know that music alone can make us feel a certain way. That most of us associate certain key sequences as eerie or weird. The horror movie industry works on this truth.In tests done all over the world to different cultures, "scary" music seems to be scary universally. There is something in the music, overriding culture, that prompts feelings of "wrongness" or "evilness".So my question to you is, can music itself be evil? Are certain note structures wrong in and of themselves?
Well there is a difference between scary, weird and "evil" for example many things can sound and look eerie, scary or weird and not be evil or inherently evil. There might be a night sky or eerie looking weather and clouds that look menacing but they aren't evil. Same with tones, sounds and noises....minor notes tend to sound darker than major notes and so they have an eerie feel to them but I wouldn't say evil and so I don't believe music in and of itself could be evil. Even when say an "evil" person is composing music and wishes to portray the music as a representative of the dark side the composer is just using universal notes in an arrangement of its choices that come across as dark. Tones in themselves are just vibrations, movement there's nothing malicious about them.
If your answer is no, then why do we see some music as weird or evil?
I think there are two factors, one in which I've stated is that certain notes have an eerie sound to them, and two you have the composer which has the ability to arrange those notes.....he may want to convey something dark, and we see and hear that in the final product but the material (tone) is indifferent, inanimate and has no quality of awareness IMO. And again, there is a big difference between weird and evil, which makes this confusing to answer. If you just stick with evil, and not weird and eerie the answers are black and white.
And why does this view seem to be consistent across cultures and ethnicities?
Because like I said, certain tones (which are inanimate, they have no conscious nature) which are vibrations have an eerie sound to them and then on top of that a composer can use a compilation of "eerie" sounding notes to create a final product. To me, pipe organs sound eerie and yet it's played in Churches lol, as well as horror films. Thunder sounds scary but it's not evil.....fog looks creepy but it's not evil. I think you get my point music is just an arrangement of universal notes, the composer is free to arrange those notes but the notes themselves aren't evil.
A Composer or musician can have evil intent but the notes in which music is arranged is neutral.
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@Paul
I don't know about the purpose part
And then you went on to explain its purpose lol...
stairs explode they make the atoms that make people and dirt and all the other stuff in the universe.
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@Deb-8-a-bull
As I said before, it's more accurate if you don't force the misconception that there's only one correct religion...and everything else is incorrect....rather there are more accurate versions of the same truth. If you look at it like a whole, then you can see there's both accuracy and inaccuracy and one observes what is more accurate within all of it. If you actually pay attention to what I'm saying it won't trip you up so much. All of religion is the interpretations of the same reality with many things within it that would add various flavors obviously....but the purpose of spirituality serves the same objective for every soul.
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@janesix
It's a simulation of types, but it is real in that it is the real deal. The only "illusion" about it all is the perception of separation and form. It all comes from the same Reality.
who is running the show?
The Big Bos lol, jk but seriously it's exactly what you would conceive of. One massive, omnipresent ocean of conscious awareness which transforms energy and elements into form like a mad scientist. What everyone suggests is "God".
And why?
To experience something other than a singular awareness by observing right through your channel of consciousness activities and perceptions. The Boss experiences everything through you, through your form. The very nature of consciousness is creativity and desire, that is the desire of the Creator, to make worlds and endless experiences for the individualized soul. The Creator doesn't always want to experience being alone.
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@mustardness
Where do you nutcases
And that's where you lost the battle Mustard. We're trying to do better than that here, hopefully you will be dealt with.
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@mustardness
Looks like we got another troll and worthless debater folks.
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@Deb-8-a-bull
Do you feel sorry for millions of people getting tricked into believing a lie ?
Getting tricked? people believe what they want and for them there is truth in it and why would I need to be concerned with what other people believe unless they want answers? But as for me and spirituality I try and not limit it, and sometimes that means discarding false ideas or misconceptions and utilizing more intuition and commonsense. Spirituality and religion is a vast arena, there is no "one or the other"....there is truth and there are misconceptions within all of it. The objective is to experience what is true.
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@Vaarka
they have good slurpies
Lol, ever had a slush puppie?
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@Vaarka
I run cross country
You mean to 7-11?
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@drafterman
Didn't you know we're multi accounts?
Hmm, on second thought....
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@drafterman
Didn't you know we're multi accounts?
Nope, nothing alike other than simplicity! I do like simplicity though with a dynamic twist.
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@drafterman
I'm drafterman.I am a man.I was once a drafter.
bsh1 should find this rather likable lol.
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@bsh1
I like simple sentences.
Are you sure?
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@Castin
Do you talk to God? What's this experience like? Is it one-way, where you're sending God prayers, or does God ever touch your mind in response? If there is a response, what is it like? Does God respond in words? Is it just a feeling or emotion, like a wordless sense of wellbeing or reassurance?
Talking to God is one-way, but quieting oneself in contemplation becomes two-ways and one can learn much more through learning the distinction between thought and a higher conscious reality. Prayer to God doesn't always have to be a petition, often times I find myself "praying" for things outside myself and also for self-evaluation. Prayer can also be used as a source of edification. God/spirituality always touches on the aspects of our nature including the mind, body and spirit/conscious soul and more than always challenges one to transcend those boundaries.
Sometimes I've had remarkable responses and sometimes I've had intuition spiritually speaking and or nothing at all just practice and being consistent. It's not always the same, it's an adventure and worth investing in. I've actually never heard words but only one time and it wasn't a Divine encounter, I've had many visions and spiritual experiences but usually actual audible noises are rare. Spiritual perception picks up on activity of higher conscious activity and vibration than the mere physical senses and operation. This is why you see spiritual types of practice whether it be meditation, fasting, praying ect ect….just tools to help the conscious soul transcend the physical layer.
Spirituality is not about feelings and emotions even though they touch those aspects of our nature. However feelings and emotions are not our true selves they only serve as purposes of fulfilling desire and whatever it is we wish to seek in creation. Spirituality often times more than not, helps us to understand the distinction between what is true and what is feelings and emotions.
The "reassurance" experiences I've had spiritually are irreplaceable, they are beyond description and come from many spiritual sources. This is why people have such deep gratitude and perspective of God, because the relation between the soul and the first reality is beyond description, most people don't know how to express it beyond a feeling.
Is there ever a doubting part of you that whispers that you're just talking to yourself? If so, how do you overcome it? Is there a quality to "God's voice" that is immediately and fundamentally distinct from your own inner voice, so that you can always tell when it's supposedly God and when it's just your own mind?
No, it is plane and clear the difference between what you and I could produce and want, and what spirituality serves to reveal. It's not even comparable, spirituality drives the individual away from illusion and false ideals and what it wants for itself. True spirituality is understanding the self and its limits, then understanding the distinction between that and the ultimate reality, the unlimited, unrestricted omnipresent Source of all that exists!
There's also a difference between perceiving and "hearing". Perhaps when you actually leave the physical body you may hear God speak like what you see with NDE's. Often times this is just natural, because the soul has left the limits of the physical shell and is subject to the higher reality. But generally speaking it's easy to tell the difference between the self and that which is outside the self. Or perhaps I've just been aware of it longer but it's really simple. Spirituality is based upon observation not hear-say, and not a product of ones mind or imagination even though that exists too.
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@Deb-8-a-bull
It's The Try make the way you picked the religion you're in now sound half decent challenge.
It's the observe the most accurate information and facts that are available just as with anything else you learn. Challenge accepted? your play, your move...
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@Outplayz
Sushi, you just hit my soft spot, how dare you!
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@Outplayz
I'll give it a thought, but I actually really like how i look with a shaved head. It is actually pretty empowering. It takes a month to see it. I hated it at first, but after a month it is a really weird confidence it gives you. I'm sorta addicted to it now. So i'm not even worried about getting my hair back. i guess it would be good to have the option though.
I have a shaved head too now, funny that we would go from having long hair to a shaved head. Something about it I like, not having to worry about what it looks like. I just get up and do my business and use my facial hair to have fun with. I kinda remind myself of Chuck Liddell lol, only I need to sport a mohawk!
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@Outplayz
Johnny Depp is a money hoe too lol. He would probably take the role. But i get what you mean. He does have the look. He is just a bit silly though. I don't see him as a ghost of vengeance type. Plus he is older now. It would be kinda weird playing the romantic musician type that is suppose to be young and just getting married.
Ha, I guess I was kinda referring to years ago but yeah I get it. Johnny is kinda not a tough guy lol.
In any case, i really don't want them to remake the movie. It is literally my favorite movie so i would be kinda disappointed. Some movies you just have to leave alone.
I actually agree with that, it's obvious nobody can touch that character, I was just thinking if they do it, it should be somebody that has the face and style.
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@Outplayz
Halloween is my favorite holiday. And i love anything dark (dark romantic btw... i hate violent and gore type stuff). With music i am a master of the minor keys.
You sound like a me lol, I love to rip minor key solos, like a cross between middle-eastern and classic rock. Maybe that's why we have such similar belief structures, cool mon. Autumn is for sure the most fascinating time of year.
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@Outplayz
They were trying to make a remake of it and tried to have the guy that played aguaman, jason momo or something, play him. I can see it, but he dumped the role. He said the movie is way to big a shoe to fill.
Can I ask a question? is there any reason why they didn't consider Johnny Depp as a legit replacement? imagine him with the crow make-up.....the only thing I can think of is that Johnny is not that physical or masculine but the face and intensity of acting would be perfect.
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@Outplayz
Dude, you should have not mentioned balding lol, now I'm going to get on you about a carnivorous diet! sorry but can't help myself. Try that diet I recommended and you will have more hair than you know what to do with. Acidity causes decay and alkaline rejuvenates.
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@Outplayz
it's the only movie that makes me cry every time i watch it alone
I hate the fact he was shot on site Outplayz especially at a young age, I mean it was so long ago but what a tragic, freak accident and a brilliant new star arising. To me, he seemed to reach his potential in the film with that movie, then it ended so quickly just as if it was Bruce Lee :(
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@Outplayz
That's hilarious, I've been him for Halloween several times lol and actually I just cut my hair.....I've had it down the middle of my back most my life. One of my fav characters not to mention his dad. The first movie is badazz for sure, one of the most memorable personalities on camera.
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@Paul
Stars exist for the purpose of seeding the universe, where planets can inhabit life.
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@Paul
Chemicals, elements and stars are a part of it.
Ahhh, star dust? but do you know why star dust exists?
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I'm EtrnlVw/Matt....
I am a musician/recorder guitar slinger/singer.
I'm a Dad of four sweeties....40 year ol man with a toddler calling me Daddy! does that mean I'll be 60 by the time my youngest is 20! holy moly.
I'm a great cook, I love cooking and great food.
I'm an artist....I paint, sculpt, chisel and use just about any medium to create art.
I'm a spiritualist, I love spirituality and all things true related to it. God is my passion and my heart.
I'm a home remodeler, I'm a professional painter and I custom rooms in my area.
I'm a nature enthusiast, I love the outdoors and all that pertains to survival.
I'm old school yet versatile, I'm not a one-dimensional guy.
I'm a lover AND a fighter, I love full contact sports and I love sensual experience lol.
I really enjoy debate and discussions of the most serious nature, something about the art of revealing the true nature of things I really connect with, perhaps why I love spiritual discussion/debate.
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@mustardness
There exists no infinite inteligence.
False, there does in fact exist an infinite, eternal awareness which projects intelligence. Awareness produces intelligence because what is conscious has the ability to acquire knowledge and skill. Why do you have a problem with awareness/intelligence as a first Source? if consciousness comes before creation/matter, then it stands to reason intelligence is an infinite conscious reality in which all arises first through conscious awareness and then through the universal mind. Anything that limits this is materialism at its finest. The reality that there was first a conscious "intelligence" is a superior view in some spheres and there is no reason to discard that fact. So don't act as if Outplayz is saying something absurd or not possible. In fact it's quite possible. What you have when you pull back from creation, is an omnipresent, intelligent awareness that all life comes from.
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Cool song in the midst of an album of great songs!
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@janesix
Atheism is not a neutral position IMO so I would say agnostic if any. While they may not have beliefs or reasons for belief neither do they disbelieve or lack belief in God. However, I don't discount intuition or their previous conscious knowledge/experience. Babies are just souls that have inhabited bodies, for all we know they could have just come from a heavenly realm, the soul of that "baby" may have much knowledge only the soul of the baby is restricted to its own anatomy therefore the soul experiences directly through that so the souls/babies perception is that it experiences anew even though it had foreknowledge and experience. But I don't believe atheism would be neutral grounds TBH, atheism is classified as disbelief and "lack" of belief in God, babies have neither, they neither disbelieve or "lack" belief in God they have not begun to sort anything out yet.
If I go by my own experience there was never a time when I didn't believe in or lack awareness of God so I was never an atheist that had to convert. I was thinking about God as far back as I can recall so I've just expanded on that awareness. But typically babies neither believe or lack belief in God.
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