Total posts: 17,895
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@Polytheist-Witch
Because they don't
That’s just demonstrably false lol
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@Polytheist-Witch
I don’t know where you’re getting the idea that people that are pro-life don’t support exceptions for the mother’s life being in danger.
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@Greyparrot
Guess Democrats better shut down the economy again if they don't want to lose their Oligarchy.
Pretty sure I saw somewhere that CDC was predicting the biggest COVID wave yet.
At least gas will be cheap again.
#MakeGasCheapAgain
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@Double_R
This is what I mean when I say I have better things to do. I enjoyed reading your response. There are some things we just fundamentally disagree on like the character trait of loyalty. But this discussion could go on forever (and be insanely long over forum) and I have exams + internship starting on Monday, so imma end it here. If you ever want to discuss over a voice call on the official DART Discord, I would be more than happy to do it then
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@oromagi
You're right. Please amend that to read "Therefore, Pie and GP are both obviously lying when they say they support Sanders"
You’re getting a little bit warmer, but still not there yet
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@Double_R
Thanks for that, but it’s not quite what I was asking.Let me put it this way; we all have a working model of how we think the world operates. I see the Republican Party mainly as the party of the stupid people. That’s not to say everyone who votes republican is stupid, that’s just a generalization of the base at large. The recent recordings coming to light only further add to why I see the world this way because what they show is that even the people at the very top of republican politics agree with me when it comes to the previous administration, so it turns out that so called TDS extends to them as well.
See that’s the problem though. You see it as GOP vs Democrats. I see it as Establishment vs everyone else. Another point: calling a party stupid won’t get you anywhere. They may not have the same degree of education a large portion on the left do, but they are still important to the livelihood of the nation. I’ll give you one example: truckers. That’s assuming you were referring to education and not stupid as in lacking logic.
With respect to top GOP officials not liking Trump. I figured that out in 2015 when he was running in the primaries. You think establishment candidate Jeb Bush likes Trump? Of course not. You think Paul Ryan liked Trump? Definitely not. You just have to look at the agenda.
This is exactly what we would see if my view is accurate, those who know better selling BS to those who don’t because they are easy to manipulate.
That’s why I disagree with the whole “I’m the most Trumpy candidate.” I laughed when Josh Mandel, a career establishment official said in Ohio that he was the most Trumpy candidate. He wasn’t even close. But he came in second after Vance. I wholeheartedly agree with you that establishment GOP is full of snakes that are straight out of House of Cards.
What I’m asking here is, what is your view of this? It’s easy to just write it off with no further thought by saying you don’t care what they think, but something here has to be true. Is it some kind of conspiracy by the left to put people in power that agree with them even if they pretend not to?
I think there were two earthquakes in DC. One the night Donald Trump secured the nomination. And second the day Trump won the Presidency. Trump had the people on his side (whether you think that’s good or not). It was a conform or die scenario for the establishment. Donald Trump defeated the 3 most powerful institutions in the United States: the establishment GOP war mongers like Bush, the Democrats, and the media with his victory.
Does TDS really persist even amongst the right wing political elites? How would you explain that? Is the Trump base and only this relatively small group the ones who get it and the rest of the country just idiots? Some other explanation?
All my friends are liberals. I go to a university where a vast majority of people are liberals. I don’t think they’re idiots. I don’t think you or Oromagi are idiots. I just think we fundamentally disagree on the perspective of life, which fuels our political beliefs. TDS does persist in right-wing elites. Best example is Liz Cheney. In Congress she voted practically 100% with Trump. But the moment an opportunity came to uplift her profile, she did. Something her own constituents don’t agree with her on. Another example is Mitt Romney. He’s the epitome of sleazy guy. He lost in 2012, but then comes back and runs for Senate in Utah and spars with Trump and the party to uplift his imagine. Do you think he voted yes on KBJ cause he thought she was qualified and stuff. No. He did it for the political clout. He voted for impeachment for political clout. You probably saw it as “doing the right thing.” I see it as man who is salty that he lost and is jealous of the man sitting in the White House.
How does your “model” account for this?
I think there’s one character trait that’s needed in Washington DC: loyalty. That’s my strongest trait that I personally value in an individual. If I’m doing something wrong, I want you to call me out on it. Not in public, but in private. Tell me your concerns. I don’t want unconditional loyalty. But people like Brian Kemp, who Trump carried to the Governor’s office are ungrateful. Privately talk behind Trump’s back. It loses my complete respect. But that’s just DC.
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@Double_R
Why do either of our minds have to change? What’s wrong with a deeper understanding of alternative points of view? If your position is right wouldn’t the attempt only further demonstrate it?
There’s an opportunity cost involved. I’d love to have a deep chat, but there are other things I have to do in life that I find more important than understanding the opposing viewpoint. In my opinion, I understand the opposing viewpoint relatively well. Obviously there will be holes, but that’s why I read what you and Oromagi say even if I don’t comment on it. You only get to live the college life once :/
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@oromagi
Wow Lindsey Graham, Mitch McConnell, and Nikki Haley said that? Interesting
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@oromagi
Therefore, Pie and GP are both obviously lying when they say they support Sanders on policy.
Wanna point out where I said that? I’ll wait. Let’s see if you can point it out.
No, he's a Russian puppet like David Duke or Alexander Lukashenko or Tucker Carlson.
And I’m Tom Cruise :)
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@Double_R
But like you said and are demonstrating here; reason, logic, consistency… these are all meaningless. You’re just fighting the battle so your team wins. Serious good faith conversion be dammed.
I have tried to have a good faithed conversation with you before, but it hasn’t worked out. Neither of our minds are gonna be changed; my new philosophy is to keep it short and simple for both of our sanities.
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@oromagi
I think you meant to say "democracy" because ISIS is still around. FOX News just stopped reporting on them.2 days ago:4 days ago:12 days ago:With Spate of Attacks, ISIS Begins Bloody New Chapter in Afghanistan#LiesToldLiesBelieved
Last I checked the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) not the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) do not hold any territory. You’re equating terrorist attacks to Orange Man Bad. Nice one.
The USA made a lot of promises to its Kurdish allies which you blithely ignore while claiming "promises kept." I guess Trump forgot to instruct you on this, but Erdogan put his opposition in jail in 2016- 30,000 political opponents, journalists, and college professors who didn't support his authoritarian takeover.
I didn’t see Trump make that promise. Nice job.
We still want Turkey to oppose Russia but the problem with taking advice from dictators is dictators never have your best interest at heart, only their own.
So we shouldn’t support a NATO ally cause he’s a dictator. Next thing you know, we shouldn’t support a NATO ally when they’re attacked because the leader is a dictator.
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@Double_R
BTW, the hypocrisy of the right wing’s fascination with the Afghanistan withdrawal never ceases to amaze me. When Trump pulled US forces out of Syria completely abandoning the Kurds and leaving milirary equipment behind for it to fall into the hands of ISIL fighters, no one on the political right gave a rats ass, but here we are a year later and the right still talks about Afghanistan as if that pull out was the worst thing we ever saw. It wasn’t.
Trump destroyed ISIS. #PromisesMadePromisesKept
If Syria happened under Biden you would swear this alone was reason enough for all of us to recognize how incompetent and dangerous he is which is why he needs to go. But it was Trump, so no one cares.You don’t really care about this.
Everything looks fine to me. Oh and about the Kurds, talk to out NATO ally Turkey. Maybe they can clue you in on what’s up.
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@Greyparrot
@Double_R
How do you deal with the fact that all of the people leading the party you defend don’t even believe the ideas they are selling you? How do you continue to believe everyone else is suffering from TDS and you’re the normal one when the people on top of your own party agree with people like me but pretend not to just because they want your vote?
Well. Where do I start. Party doesn’t mean anything. Establishment is establishment, whether Democrat or Republican. I could give a rat’s ass what Paul Ryan and Kevin McCarthy think. They’re in it for themselves. Have been since Day 1. I can recognize that the establishment takes care of the establishment. I’ve said this multiple times. I’d rather vote for Bernie than Biden (I actually did). At least the former has been consistent on his views and genuinely believes it’s the right thing whether popular or not. Even though I disagree with everything he stands for, I have the capacity to respect him for it. Can you do the same? Cause believe it or not, Trump isn’t an establishment puppet like Joe.
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We love people dropping off ballots at 3am.
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@zedvictor4
Some more fake news lol
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@Double_R
If you pay attention to the context of my points about Biden I don’t hold him in high regard at all, I just find it baffling how anyone with an IQ above room temperature can think he’s worse than Trump and find no explanation for that other than pure hypocrisy, which is the thing I’m actually attacking.
Maybe the inflation, horrible Afghanistan withdrawal, same number of deaths for COVID (with a vaccine), completely open border, etc.
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@SkepticalOne
Yep, that's the simplistic framing of an often tragic scenario I was referring to. Termination of pregnancy so close to term isn't done on a whim or inconvenience. You lack information or integrity.
I would love to see your information on this lol. Either way, it’s unethical to take the life of someone who has done nothing to harm you. If we can protect the eggs of sea turtles, then we definitely ought to protect babies
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@SkepticalOne
I read a simplistic framing of a complex and often tragic scenario. Your position appears to be one low on context.
More like a selective opinion. Your position is abortion till the second the baby comes out of the mom’s stomach. All because of the inconvenience it brings to a woman. It logically does not make sense to kill a human being because they are inconvenient.
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@SkepticalOne
What we could use less of is the pretentious 'save the babies' self righteous virtue signaling. It is telling that 'pro-life' advocates are so rarely advocating for programs and policies that would support young mothers or their children. This Pastor Barnhart accurately describes it:
You clearly didn’t read about my position then.
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@SkepticalOne
Do we really want people who strive to maintain control of their own bodies...yes, absolutely, we do want people like this in a *healthy* society.
By killing babies up to the moment of birth? Wow.
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@RationalMadman
Such mothers are likely to drink and do things that harm the baby. Currently unless the baby inside thmk literally dies, they cannot benprosecuted fornthebharm towards it as far as I am aware.
And you don’t think that’s evil as well? Do you really want someone like that in society? I’d argue, absolutely not.
Rape is not some joke event. To make her have 9 months against her will and then have to give away the baby for adoption or raise it wrong and end up with it in foster care is just an unwise leadership move.
I never said it was some joke event. There are numerous scenarios where a child conceived from rape has been successful. Prime example is Kathy Barnette who’s running for Senate in Pennsylvania.
On a side not, I am in full support of greater funding of foster care and adoption. Money that goes to planned parenthood should be redirected to that.
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@3RU7AL
do you believe all disgusting things should be made illegal ?
Good question. The answer is no. You took me a bit too seriously though. Ig a synonym for disgusting in that context would be immoral.
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@3RU7AL
"frankly disgusting" - - is a genius argument
It really is. You should watch some of the videos that explain it. I don’t see how people would support that, but that’s just me.
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Anyone who supports the “it’s the woman’s body” argument has to inherently support late term abortion, which is frankly disgusting.
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@Novice
I don't see any logical reason that says a child's life would become inherently inferior because of the actions of another person. That is an extremely bigotted point of view, hence why abortion must remain illicit in the incident of rape.
Exactly. 2 wrongs don’t make a right.
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@SirAnonymous
The Masked Man returns once again
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@TheMorningsStar
Oh, yes, you have seen through me! It isn't that I think that life is important, it isn't that I think that abortion is the unjustified killing of a life, etc., it must only be that I hate women.Are you actually this braindead or do you just make braindead takes because you are too lazy to make any sort of real argument?
Someone in a group chat I’m in called 30% of the population psychos cause they want abortion outlawed. When I as a dude bring it up, it’s always the “no uterus, no opinion.”
I’d argue it’s bad faith to engage with someone who holds these views.
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@Athias
Granted, the trend sometimes can be to leave thoughtless one-liners
I debated with someone for over 20 pages one time. Analyzed hours of video footage. Turns out I was right. Any objective individual could see I was right. But it didn’t change that gentleman’s mind one bit because of Orange Man Bad.
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@Polytheist-Witch
What that some woman would actually have the gall to say to you I don't need your permission to exercise my constitutional right?
My intention was not to sound condescending…
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@Polytheist-Witch
Really!! Oh thanks I wouldn't have known that if some man hadn't told me.
This is the problem
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@Polytheist-Witch
I'm not usually a one topic voter but I'll tell you right now, if Roe v Wade was overturned I would vote Democrat for the first time in my life and would continue to vote Democrat and actively fight against Republican candidates until it's fixed.
You are entitled to your vote!
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@oromagi
I'm thinking Republicans just lost 2022.
😂
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@Reece101
Screw bodily autonomy to own the libs.
Cope
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@Greyparrot
Who do you want as the Minister of Truth when Trump wins?
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@zedvictor4
And I also like pies.
Me too!!!
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@zedvictor4
I like grumpy old trolls who live under a bridge
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@Polytheist-Witch
No they don't.
Can’t always be serious in life
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@Polytheist-Witch
There's a lot of trolls on this site.
Trolls make the site fun
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@Greyparrot
How do you like Biden's new minister of truth?
I’m waiting for the day when Alex Jones becomes the Minister of Truth.
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If you join the military and serve for a certain period of time, it all goes away too.
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@secularmerlin
Its actually more of a spectrum than a binary even biologically speaking.
But you can’t be “non-binary.” You’re either a male or female biologically
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@secularmerlin
I don't understand the corollary here.
The point is there are only 2 sexes. Obviously it’s possible for there to be an exception, but generally, we say that humans are either male or female. And then there’s gender. Dumbest innovation of society
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@3RU7AL
one might perhaps find it more entertaining to learn the mind before attempting to change the mind
I think I have based on the 10 or so pages of yalls comments lol
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The difference is that one sides believes it’s a God given right to freely express yourself and the other believes it is given by the government only.
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@Double_R
I do. I am well aware of how fascists and autocrats gain power. The problem is, when this is your stated approach on a debate site you demonstrate that it is you who need not be taken seriously since your words have nothing to do with reason or logic or anything you believe to be true but rather are just your attempt to own the other side. It’s also why you’re still talking about your debate victory… two years later.
Nothing I say or do will ever change your mind. I consider that more of a waste of time than a productive discussion. You lack the capacity to see your own hypocrisy, and no matter how many people say it, you will always proclaim them as fascists and autocrats. You need introspection my friend.
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@oromagi
Excellent reasons for lovers of freedom to never, ever vote for any Republican ever again.
Cope
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