Total posts: 17,895
Duck the urinal
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@Evilgenius
I just don’t understand the controversy of me using ‘We’ .. I’m sure a lot of you have used it to identify with one group or the other. In this case I used WE as a reference to my affiliations to town..
Then why did you include (town) as well?
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@Polyglot
I have a few reasons for wanting to vote Lunatic out but I don’t think I would be able to convince the majority of town on that in such short time.
Lunatic’s affiliation depends partially on Evil’s flip. If Evil flips scum Luna is much more likely to be scum. Remember how he defended you in Fast Food? It’s the same thing here.
I also forgot to tag you in the above post.
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@Polyglot
Also lunatic wanted pie Lynch from the very beginning just so town avoids the pages of back and forth between him and pie.
It’s ok I just won’t respond to him anywhere if he’s gonna be an ass about it. I’ll direct my arguments to y’all and if he wants to barge in that’s his perogative.
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@Wylted
@Vader
@drlebronski
Here is the case on Evil from my standpoint.
1. In every game thus far Town Evil has never thought it fit to use “We(town)” or us(town).
But you may think it doesn’t mean much, but let me tell you why it does. Noob Scum Evil here would be extremely cautious in his wording of posts because he doesn’t want to out himself. It’s how as WF mentioned, he was caught in his first scum game. Overcautiousness is massive scum tell for noob mafia.
2. When Evil had a wagon on him, he became extremely defeatist saying this: “Somebody swing the hammer .. I’m done convincing y’all..”
Now this is something that Evil definitely has not done in his past games as town. To his last post he has proclaimed his innocence. Never has he said “fuck y’all lynch me.” This is another classic sign that we’ve used multiple times to catch noob scum. I think Chris comes to mind specifically.
3. The biggest justification I’ve heard for a town Evil is his noobiness with the OMGUS and everything. But that doesn’t mean much. Scum Evil would do the same thing. It’s like me being aggressive as both town and scum. It’s at best a null tell not a town tell.
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@Lunatic
Hell no. I'll apologize when you stop text chaining without responding to anything I say lol. If you are town this is good for town still.
You’re the one that started it lol. Not once have you been scum hunting. Our textchain has only happened when we have been opposite affiliations or you scum read me for shitty reasons. And I do respond to you so you can cut that bs. I don’t agree with your viewpoint. Take it or leave it. It’s just like politics. You’re not gonna convince me otherwise.
Either way, if you’re scum here you’re at the top of the chain of NKs. If that fails you’re fucked anyways. Win win situation for me either way.
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@Wylted
Just recap if anything was important
It’s pretty simple.
I’m voting Evil because he said “We( town) are still the majority so a little sacrifice won’t cripple us.
He has never done this before. Using your own analysis you posted last game about Poly, it is clear this is scummy.
Whiteflame is voting Evil because of his deviations from his town games - though he’s more qualified
Luna is on me because he thinks my pursuit of an Evil lynch is opportunistic and he has the support of Bron who’s just bandwagoning and Evil who is being defeatist about his status - another deviance I just realized.
And then you - which I still don’t know why.
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I’ll be on later tonight. I gotta grind before the games today and tomorrow.
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@Lunatic
That kind of backward thinking hurts town. I tried the same shit with greyparrot and it never accomplished anything. If it didn't work the last 3 times, why is that gonna change the 4th time we lynch him? A better alternative to the policy lynch you suggest is to not allow people like that to play.
GP is a different situation because he just claims his role and isn’t a noob like Evil. And GP at least is interested in the game and posts often.
I’d be fine with black listing Evil if he doesn’t step up his game.
I'd rather just identify the town similarities and save an obvious mislynch for one that is less obvious.
And that’s going to backfire on you one day. You scum hunt by finding deviations in behavior - at least this early in the game. Noob town reads are just as likely to cover for noob scum reads. You can let that go every game or find the deviations and lynch him for not conforming to his town game.
Lynching them isn't going to change that apparently. We've tried 3 times to no avail. It definitely benefits mafia though.
He keeps getting lynched he’s gotta change something. I get the vibe that English isn’t his first language either which could be why he’s not as interested either. Either way simply dismissing him as noob town without even considering any deviations lacks merit
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@Lunatic
That was in direct response to me pointing out that the game was different, and you didn't point out right at all that you had made a mistake, instead you tried to downplay the impact of what you had said by saying "I never said it makes you 100% town". So this indicates that you are changing the story later because you realized that argument didn't hold water...
Again it’s obvious I misread what you said. Believe it or not, I don’t read what you say seriously half the time because it’s not going to change my mind.
I don't know what his scum tell is, we likely haven't seen it because he's been town in every game so far. We have plenty of evidence to support his behavior is similar to games he's played as town, and not much to show that it's different. Logically, he is more likely just town again. What do we learn from his lynch? That pointing out obvious subtext isn't a scum tell? You are the only one that has a problem with that. No one else learns anything from this.
Every small detail matters. Your literally does nothing to identify if Evil will ever be scum. He could just keep OMGUS and bam he’s town on your list. Having the same behavior as town last game doesn’t remove him from the scum list - you and I both know that. It’s the deviations that matter.
It's not a divergence, it's a simple added clarification to a behavior he has used AS TOWN. A behavior you admitted was a null tell.
This is just false. Prove he’s use (town) anywhere after We or Us before this game.
But that wasn't reportedly the reason you were voting me. You told wylted it was because of OMGUS. Why are you changing the story?
I literally am not. I’ve already agreed I was voting for you cause of OMGUS which is what I told Wylted. But I was also voting for you cause you’re simply an asshole who decided they were gonna tunnel me for absolutely no reason today. I didn’t say that say that explicitly but i conveyed it when I told everyone to pick a side. I got off the lynch because I am scum hunting. Your vote hasn’t changed once. You were voting me cause you don’t like me. You’re still voting me cause you don’t like me. And when I flip town I’ll be laughing at you for tunneling me the entire DP and not doing anything constructive.
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@Lunatic
If Evil’s not gonna take the effort to do anything and even if you believe he’s town here, sooner or later you’re going to be wrong. If he’s not going to change how he plays after being mislynched 3 times then, how is it our fault that he keeps getting mislynched.
People like Evil who don’t learn from their mistakes are screwing others over in the process. And it’s also a pet peeve of mine.
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@Lunatic
Explain your response to me in post 233 then.
It just proves my point that I mistyped earlier. Even in that post I was talking about Fast Food context meaning both as scum.
If you are a stats guy then you understand the general principal of stats being meaningless unless you have a large pool of context to judge from. Evil has existed in no more than 3 games and has posted minimally in all of them. Meaning he's likely to have a first time for a lot of things.
Then what’s the behavioral mechanism to find out if he’s scum then. Unless you present a different option we have to go with what we have. Many times the data is low what it’s all we got in a situation. Error is high but when is it not in behavioral situations?
Your stats are also ignoring the data you don't want to look at in exchange for the ones you do want to look at. Your only argument is that he did one minor thing new (including verbiage of obvious subtext), when in the past I have proven that he uses the verbiage of "We" as town, uses omgus logic as he did with disc in pokemon, and has been consistently mislynched in every game he's in. There's more data indicating he is more likely to flip town here, but you ignore that in favor of a minor data point that allows you to justify lynhing him...
The use of we(town) diverges. And the OMGUS is a null tell. The data you mentioned is a divergence and a null tell. Where’s the town aspects.
You are constantly barely equivilating any read on him as barely more than a null read lol.
No there is divergence which I’ve pointed out and which you think is null because he doesn’t post as much. You work with what you have and that’s what I have.
I mean you weren't sayig the vote was because I was an asshole though originally.
I didn’t say that explicitly but I pointed out why you were being an asshole for immediately tunneling me.
You were trying to justify it to wylted as an OMGUS vote. You are changing the story now because you are being called out on it.
Ya I did but you were being an asshole. Is that reason to lynch you though lol
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@Lunatic
Evil's "omgus" was never a reason you voted for him, at least one that you stated. He had already omgus'ed whiteflame before your initial town read on him. Btw no, it wasn't clear that you mean if he flipped scum. Why didn't you just say that the first time I called you out for that read? You had like two back and forths with me without clarifying that part. You only clarify it now that I've highlighted it for others, why is that?
I didn’t see it? You’ve been responding to me 5 times in 5 minutes lol. And it should’ve been clear after I brought up the Fast Food case.
Wait what do you mean "statistically"? lol wtf
It’s a statistically significant deviation from the data we have. It’s a stats thing. I’m a Finance Major.
Because he included the obvious subtext of town? How is stating the obvious more scummy than having the obvious inferred?
He didn’t need to use it though is my point and previous data shows he hasn’t used it. The deviation in the data has to have a reason. You claim that it was due to chance, I claim it’s something noob town would do.
You are digging your argument into a deeper and deeper hole. You are proving why this is a null tell.
I was talking about the OMGUS but go on. Note I used practically not always.
I've said a lot more than just "your aggressive" lol. I think you are aggressive for show, though is what I am trying to say. You voted me for "OMGUS" but unvoted me the second an easier mislynch showed up. You proceeded to tag me in several posts later encouraging me to vote evil. If you thought I was scum this whole time why are you pinging me as if I am townie lol. This whole response was to me pointing out other behavior tells and convincing other to votes you for them. You are seeming desperate.
I voted for you because you were being an asshole as well. Obviously voting you on OMGUS wouldn’t lead anywhere lol. I unvoted you because I was actually scum hunting which I was taught to do while you just sat there. I never said I thought you were scum this whole time - another strawman. All I said was you would be a good target if Evil flips scum. You’ve been tunneling me this entire day.
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@Lunatic
I didn't vote for Biden or Trump lol. You kind of just assumed I did because I called out that you defend Trump, which you do.
So you wrote in Vermin Supreme? Nice.
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@whiteflame
The “we (town)” thing doesn’t stand out to me as much as it does you. I can see your point, but I’m also not sure Evil would try to subtly influence perception like that.
It almost did go unnoticed. But either way, it’s a subconscious action because mafia feel self-conscious.
And as for the flip, if we do lynch Evil (which seems unlikely at this stage) and he flips scum, I’ve got some ideas for who I’d sus first. Not sure Luna would be top of the list if he’s town, but yes, I recall Luna’s previous effort to derail a lynch as scum.
If I get lynched today, tomorrow should be an instant No Lynch.
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@Lunatic
I never saw this til now btw. I find this kind of hilarious considering I am the most anti-cencorship mother fvcker on this site lol. I started a thread that went big on the pmain page defended wylted's behavior, and constantly are on the mods asses about over censorship lol. In fact the whole wylted thread stemmed from you informing me of the details of why wylted was being banned, so you better than anyone should know I am the least likely person to be offended by words on twitter lmao.Not to mention I literally threw as town once in a game where bullish threatened to mod kill because I used a naughty word lol
So what’s your excuse for voting the mental patient over Trump?
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Unofficial Vote Count
Pie (3/5) - Lunatic, evil, Bron
lebronski (1/5) - Wylted
Evilgenius (2/5) - Pie, whiteflame
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Unofficial Vote Count
Pie (3/5) - Lunatic, evil, Bron
lebronski (1/5) - Wylted
Evilgenius (3/5) - Pie, DrLeb, whiteflame
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@drlebronski
mainly cause lunatic pointed out how evil acts the same in other games.vtl pie
That’s a strawman bud, he even admitted as much.
Evil has never said “we(town)” before. Just we and us.
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@Lunatic
1. Starts off by calling me scum and dismissing my interaction with him as OMGUS (suggesting he thinks I am scum), however easily unvotes when Evil, a better mislynch oppertunity comes around. Never mentions scum reading me again until after my defense of evil, where he makes a wierd cross application that my scum play where I defended a fellow scum team mate means I am scum here if evil flips town. Like what? Talk about omgus, he is manufacturing ways to try and reduce my credibility as town even if I end up being right! His reads are based on oppertunity and not genuinity.
You’re OMGUS and Evil’s OMGUS are two different scenarios and you know it. And I clearly meant if Evil flips scum you should be sussed. I can already feel you going on about how I scum slipped by saying that even though I’ve had to type town 30 times just to get rid of your strawman and make my point.
2. Quick switch on evil based on null tells; Pie originally told wylted he thought evil was town. He is claiming to be voting for him because he was "we(town)" But admits that if it was just "we" it would be a null tell. He is basically saying the only reason he thinks evil is scum is because he chose to clarify the obvious subtext of town in the inclusion of "we" which he has used before as town. This was apparently such a strong scum read that he flipped fully from being team "Evil is town" to team "Evil is scum". Pretty big jump in reads there for what is objectively a pretty minor reason.
It’s not a “minor” reason lol. It’s a statistically significant deviation from his original play and demonstrates self consciousness which a noob mafia would definitely display. Every tell a noob town has is practically the same as noob mafia. It’s hard to differentiate the two. But let’s look at you. You’ve been tunneling me this entire game. No scum-hunting at all. Saying I’m “aggressive” makes me scum when I’m just as aggressive as town.
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@Lunatic
The (town) in we is so obvious subtext. This is absolutely ridiculous lol. There is going to be a lot of first words he uses when he only posts 5 times a day phase and this is his third game.
It’s the small pool of posts that makes it statistically significant lol. Previous times he didn’t include it. Why did he include it now? It’s a simple question.
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@Lunatic
Except for in that case poly was scum. You equating a scum defending scum situation to a scum defending town situation. Makes 0 sense.
I never said you’d 100% be scum. I just said there was a good chance because I’m getting vibes from Fast Food
This is such an easy mislynch I could easily cede this argument at any point and hop onto it. Yet I am still pursuing the hardest fvcking lynch possible in trying to lynch you lol.
You can keep trying. It’s not going to get anywhere.
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@Lunatic
How does the inclusion of the obvious part (town) make this leap from a null tell to "oh he is super obviously scum flor clarifying that "we" meant town even though that was already super obvious?!
Cause he has never done it before? It detracts from his behavior? That’s what game is based on right?You don’t have to agree with it, but it is clearly different than other games.
And scum are much more likely to include these things because of the perception townies get on them - again you can check put Wylted’s post last game.
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@whiteflame
If Evil flips town then Lunatic is a good chance for scum. Just recall Fast Food Mafia when he was defending his partner Poly all day long.
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@Wylted
You know the argument you used against Poly last game? It didn’t apply last game but it does apply this game with Evil’s usage of (town) right after “we.” Essentially he said “we(town)…”
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@whiteflame
I don’t agree that the use of “we” in Evil’s post is a scum slip
This is a Lunatic strawman. That was never my argument in the first place.
I’m on Evil because he said “we(town)” when previously he’s always just said we. This is a clear detraction and the obvious reason why is that scum are more self conscious in their posts especially noob scum in this scenario.
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@Lunatic
I don't see how the addition of town makes any difference to the general argument. The subtext that "we" is town is pretty obvious, and he has used we before.
Because it’s different from his previous words as town and we have 3 games to tell that. Never has he clarified with (town). Noob mafia would be worried about their appearance and clarify it to sound townie. You can ask Wylted about that for more details.
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@Lunatic
It's his third game and considering y our lucky to have more than 5 posts from him a day phase, I am sure there is a lot of firsts he will make as either affiliation. Even assuming you didn't just shoot your own argument in the foot since I pointed out he has used "we" before, this was a horrible argument.
Sure but everytime he’s used “we” by itself. Never has he felt to clarify that by adding (town) right after it. What changed? The answer is quite simple. Self-consciousness - it’s the sort of thing Wylted was harping on Poly last game about.
My original post said this as well: “Town doesn’t have to clarify why they’re using “we” and “us.” Only scum worried about their image would use this - even more so from an inexperienced scum like Evil.”
I was never on him for using we or us - this is a strawman. I was on him for clarifying it when he add (town) to it unlike previously.
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@Polyglot
What Pie is referring to is that Evil felt the need to say “(town)” in addition to “we”. There was no need for Evil to emphasize that the “we” is “(town)”
Yes exactly - I probably wasn’t being clear enough and that’s my b
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@Lunatic
He said "we" twice in that post. The subcontext is obviously grouping and referring to the rest of the players as a collective town. Both town and scum pursuade the masses this way
I don’t think you understand. Yes we both know he used be we. By itself it would be null.
But here he said “we (town) ….”
Where is the bolded part in any previous game as . It shows self consciousness here.
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@Lunatic
There are rarely blanket scum tells. There are things that can be read as scummy, but you take behaviors and you cross apply them with a person's history and how they show themselves to act.
Good - now let’s try this again. When has town Evil ever said “we(town)” in any phrase before.
Anti-town isn't the same as scummy. Poly's watching of GP was anti-town but not scummy in comedians mafia for example. greyparrot claiming dp1 every game is anti-town but not scummy. That same behavior cross applied to a different player who doesn't usually do those things makes it scummy; hence why mistercrhis was scummy in wylteds game.
Idc about this part it’s fluff.
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@whiteflame
When has Evil ever said “we (town)” on any sentence before. He’s always just said we as Lunatic kindly pointed out for me in post 210.
Again the question is how to differentiate noob scum and town scum. This is the difference imo.
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@Lunatic
Where’s the “we (town)” lol.
He’s never clarified it before. Why would he clarify it now?
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@Lunatic
@Wylted
@Vader
@whiteflame
@Polyglot
Here’s a better question for anyone: what are the characteristics of noob mafia. And how they similar/different to that of noob town?
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@Polyglot
I never was planning on hammering.
We should be lynching DP1. Hammer away. Lunatic is trying to derail this wagon cause he thinks it’s “noob town.” Whats “noob mafia” then.
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@Lunatic
I don't see how newness has any effect on the general principle that useing town pronouns grouping himself into the whole is any more or less of a scum tell. It's still pretty null.
Again if he just used “we” and “us” I’d agree that it was null. But he specifically said “we (town)” and us “(town).”
Have you seen that in any previous game where he was town? Cause I sure haven’t.
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@Lunatic
WHat changed
I highlighted the reason why I changed. You’re welcome to go read the DP.
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@Lunatic
I'd really like to see a pie lynch here. I think there is a good chance he is scum. He is an pretty aggressive scum player, and this is a very oppertunistic lynch for him.
I’m aggressive regardless of my affiliation. It’s what I said to Supa last game.
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@Lunatic
This is a horrible argument. I use these pro-nouns often as town, pretty sure you and others have too. If anything this is a town slip, as he is naturally thinking and coming from an perspective where he realizes the only way to accomplish anything is by influencing his team, where in order to do that he would have to refer to his team as "us" and "we" to make any collective decision. At best this is a null tell.
For experienced people like us, yes I’d agree it’s a bill tell. But you have to keep in mind that Scum Evil would not be at all experienced. I don’t have a problem with him using us or we. It’s the (town) part.
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@Lunatic
Let's be honest here, there isn't a world where any question he could have answered from you would satisfy you enough to unvote. You have everything you want and know he is dumb enough to dig his own grave with his answer, and then when he flips town you can avoid any and all blame here because evil is just retarded/noob town or whatever you will say.
If he’s town everyone including myself misread his behavior. I’ll have no problem admitting I was wrong cause behavior isn’t a 100% science
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Why do you even want him banned. Is it cause he hurt your feelings lol?
I had no problem with MGTow and our previous liberal administration banned him on the basis of political correctness even when he took the time to respond to arguments against his own. Just like civil discourse should be. You shouldn’t be banned for fringe ideas period.
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@Lunatic
I feel kind of sus on poly. He's going really hard on evil trying to restate the obvious here, as if evil is the only option lol.
You got a better one besides me?
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@Vader
Can you vote Evil while drunk. Cause you just Snapped me a video saying the Texans suck and go Hoosiers
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@Evilgenius
You should trust me because y’all have been here before...whereby you push for my lynch whilst I’m innocent.. a noob cannot be mafia & you all know that...
This statement concerns me because it’s false and you seem to be using it as leverage.
Just admit it if you haven’t gotten any good scum leads it’s understandable because it’s a tough DP.
But I do tho - you.
Why I pushed for a WF lynch before? .. it was just to narrow down the numbers and a clear picture on who scum was.. basically it was a random vote to get things going and get people talking
Sure but why not replace whiteflame with you?
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A very detail oriented individual just doesn’t respond to my inquiry. Very strange indeed.
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