ILikePie5

Right now I am trying to figure out if Skippy or joebob/barney is more certain. I think we have to wait and see where Casey wants to go

That all depends on me to have actually been telling the truth that I have the Jailbreaker role. If was Mafia, wouldn't I have lied about that and said I have a different role? 

Me not having the best insight into who I should think is scum does not mean I am mafia. You're conjoining two separate points

What are the three roles that failed? Did this happen in one night? 

You believe I didn't roleblock Cerulean but instead roleblocked Lunatic because he was told his ability failed. Before dp1 ended, I gave my thoughts on Mhar and Luna, and then later we were told Mharman was lynched and actually a townie. I could see someone thinking that because Mhar was innocent, I may have then suspected Luna so I roleblocked him. 

But Luna wasn't my first or even my second option for scum and probably not my third either. There were others I would've targeted before him. I was suspicious of Ceru during dp1 

I hate thinking like this but I know that a loss to Skipper is going to be significantly more embarrassing than a loss to anyone else here. We also have a second scum as well so it's worth taking this slow

How am I the only reason Lunatic's ability failed? 

WE can try guilting ceru into not hammering with scum, as it would make for a boring game?

Yeah honestly no real way to get him to vote with us in a MYLO situation other than hope he sticks to his word. We might not have a choice but to just go to LYLO. 2 scum will still be alive, but at least the POE will be strong enough that it's very likely you will hit one. Hopefully. 

Joebob has replaced Barney.

Eh, I'm not really a fan of mass claiming on DP2 unless the town just gets lucky and kills scum DP1. I think behavioral and mechanical analysis ought to be prioritized. Both of those lead me to Barney.

Again, I don't like the idea of both a JOAT and a Dreaming God existing in this game. It just doesn't make sense to me, and I'm not sold on Barney's excuse for why he suddenly claimed it early. He could always just claim his role whenever he was able to actually log on to DART. 

Actually, that brings up a question I've wondered about. Do third parties typically fall on the scum side or the town side of the theme split? 

I'm willing to detour over to Pie for a while. He was very hesitant to claim in Mayday when we were wolfing together, but if I recall right, he did claim fairly quickly in the Bo Burnham game, yes?

VTL Pie

For the record I believe your claim to be 3rd party and your role, otherwise that's the ballsiest mafia move ever and it still more than likely won't work out, I just don't see you doing that if actually scum. I am not sure I entirely believe you can joint win though. Though we can do what we've done in other games and just not care if third party win or not and just hunt mafia. Doubt town would be sold on that move though. That said I would like to at least try to lynch one mafia before making the decision to lynch you, so I am fine with you living for this day phase at least. 

If I had to pick a partner for Barney that's not WyIted... probably Pie. I haven't seen anything that would really convince me off of him this game. Everyone else has at least something in their favor, in my eyes. But I don't feel I have a solid reason to be townreading Pie.

...Has he even claimed? Have I forgotten?

I am The Master, and I am a Commuter Survivor. Which is to say that I am not Town-aligned, I win with either Town or Mafia.

The justification for being a Commuter is that I am optional, but very difficult to fight. (Frankly, I think PGO would have been a better role.)

I was considering fake claiming Lava Piranha, 1x Bulletproof, but considering that my true role all but directly contradicts WyIted, I might as well be honest.

If this gets me policy eliminated, c'est la vie. I didn't feel like wolfing for a third game in a row.

VTL WyIted

@pie

I gave my claim for a couple reasons, mainly because I was inactive and would be pushed for it today under threat of death. Plus, this is a busy week for me, and I don't know what my powers actually do; so making myself a bigger target wouldn't hurt town as much as if an active player dies (that said, I've asked the mod if whiteflame or mharman are available to replace me).

My powers are tied to Jr. Troopa's forms he used to fight Mario. Each night I select a player to receive one. I gave magic to Casey last night. I still have shell, wings, spiked helmet.

@Casey

What did magic do for you?

VTL Cerulean

Since we lost Mharman, I think lynching needs to happen more quickly so we can get rid of a mafia. I am probably not going to be back on for ten hours maybe, so I would rather put in a vote now instead of waiting till later. Cerulean is still in the list of scum for me 

I am Huff N. Puff, the leader of a gang of Ruff Puffs keeping Flower Fields cloudy and permanently overcast by my cloud making machine. I have the Jailkeeper role. I can target a player and protect them from any lethal actions and also roleblock them from committing any actions. 

I don't know how Lunatic's ability failed during the NP, but it wasn't because of me 

Wait, I just realized Mharman didn't even have a Watcher. Sorry, I skimmed through a lot of stuff. I think Luna is probably town in that case. 

I am acetic, So I suspect lunatic was redirected to me, which tells me they thought he might be a cop. His other scum read was cerulean so I assume the redirect was to me so he would get innocent and clear her name. 

More than likely thats what my action failing means, yes. I was not told roleblocked, I was told my action "failed".

I don't even understand how that role works. I googled it after barney claimed it, something about getting a list of names and roles, idk.

Anyways mharman you can say "I told you so" in the endgame. Idc, I still would have voted you because of the balance issues with your role and my role, the behavior stuff was just icing on the cake for the lynch. Earth balanced this one randomly way different than his other games. 

I am Kammy Koopa, Bowsers second in command, feared Magikoopa. I watch and report things to Bowser as his second in command. I am the watcher. I tried watching pie np1, but it failed obviously. Figured pie usually is someone prone to get a lot of visits though so if for some reason I wasn't blocked or killed he would be the best bet on getting some sort of result.

Anyways, I did mention my PM mentioned Bowser in dp1, however I thought I still thought Earth was going to give bowser as a fake claim, and it made sense to me based on how mad mharman was getting about "using the fake claim" almost like he thought it was unfair that earth would be a bastard mod and give him a fake claim that was already used in the game, so I doubted bowser was actually going to be in the game because of mharmans repeated questiosn and pretending as if there was only one answer to all of them.

I am extremely surprised by the balance of this game considering earths last two games had 3 vanillas and now we have a lie detecter, a strong JOAT and a watcher, so the mafia must be pretty powerful too. 

Mharman

Bowser -

You are Bowser! Shortly before the beginning of the game, you sneak into Star Haven and steal the magical Star Rod. The Star Rod gives you powerful magical abilities and makes you all but invincible. Due to all the abilities the Star Rod gives you, you are the JOAT (1x Cop, 1x Doctor, 1x Tracker). Every night, you may pick one of your abilities to use. You win with the Town.

I would be comfortable with his lynch as well if the mharman lynch was impossible to get. I know a lot of stuff can happen the last few hours but it looks like the easiest lynch to coalesce around is mharman

I thought I was pretty clear in the post where I did it, as well as this one talking about his pressure on Cerulean.

That weak reasoning on Cerulean was the beginning of it, but his defense of it stood out to me as curious, with him saying that he would never behave this way as scum. I didn't love that he seemed to be dictating to us what his scum behavior would look like, especially since tunneling on a player or suggesting wild busses would not be new for scum. He was much more defensive than I thought was warranted based on limited sussing from Luna, especially since he hadn't had a vote on him up to that point. The shift to Barney near the end of that night set me on edge as well, it felt like an attempt to put pressure on an inactive player to defray pressure from himself rather than respond to Casey, who had cast a vote on him without response before this. Also, given how defensive he was, I wanted to see how he'd respond to new pressure. Suffice it to say his full claim was not the response I expected

Earth literally confirmed scum was given a fake claim…

At which point you’d have to believe JOAT doc, watch, and cop was a fake claim given to me

and so I guessed town wouldn’t have three of the most common roles in the entire game? Lol

I can’t answer why backup isn’t a role. I will also state that you don’t know what the other town PRs are, or what scum has. 

Anyway, I know I’m not lying.

As for Bowser: 1. We are clearly all bosses from the Original Paper Mario. This has long been established. Earth has stated there is a theme split and that mafia has been given a fake claim. I’m willing to think that Earth gave them a fake claim because what they have as is not easily spun as town. Specifically, their characters… I’m thinking Mario and Peach are the scum characters. Could also be party members Mario can add to his team in Paper Mario

I think cerulean should be on everyone's radar TBH as well. There is a scum tell that I am seeing, but I don't like mentioning it because it is one I know I fuck up with a lot. 

Scum are more likely to be inflexible with reads and cerulean doesn't like changing his vote or reads. 

I'd also be willing to lynch him or her

Getting the Star Rod have Bowser a ton of new abilities, and became near invincible because of it. You are free to look up the plot of Paper Mario in the Super Mario Wiki. I think Casey linked it on page 2

Crying about muh WIFOM does not invalidate said argument. This is mafia, a game where town and mafia alike constantly make arguments about who's what, based on behavior, including arguments about what someone would or wouldn't do as scum. No one reasonable is gonna handwaive away an argument because WIFOM. If we all did, there'd be no arguments to have at all.

Ah yes, I'm scum and under high pressure. I have a really good fake claim that Earth has given me and could use to get out of this situation, but nah, I'll let my scum partner use it instead. Then, let me claim cop, watcher, doctor all at once, because I have the room temp required to fake claim three of the most common town roles as mafia.

In Ace Attorney Mafia, you were tunneling me, and one of your arguments is that you have a lot of respect for my scum play. Here, you seem to think my scum play is troglodyte level. Which is it?

Notice how you said I figured one or two of the roles I claimed were safe. You haven't even brought yourself to say I'd think all three were safe! But I'm sure you can gaslight yourself into actually believing that sooner or later, based on what I've seen so far.

I'm a little wary of the claim as well, though I'll note he is taking an incredibly ballsy tack with claiming a JOAT like this if he's scum. Not saying I buy it necessarily, but the fact that he claimed with three votes on him, over 24 hours left in the DP, and my statement that I would come back to explain my position so that we could have it out (I don't know why he thought I was intransigent after having cast this vote just a couple of hours ago) doesn't sit well with me. I think there's a world where Earth includes backup investigative/protective roles, but it's not the one I'd believe is most likely.

A couple of other things that stand out. He claimed Bowser, a character we would certainly expect to be in a game where everyone is claiming Paper Mario bosses, but one that also stands out from the claims made so far (and my own) as a boss who exists well outside of the Paper Mario games and as the head honcho in general. Not saying that's necessarily a theme split, but it is something to consider. 

Pretty sure you just used some variation of a fake claim using information given from the mod. Also even if my role didn't CC you I would have been highly suspicious of you claiming that outright. You full claimed a JOAT and ALL of your abilities, which are super OP. Imagine if you are town, you have like most of the power role on you. And you just claimed? You had a couple of pressure votes on you, and sure maybe we could have pressed for more information, but you didn't think to start with just a character claim?

You claimed your whole ASS town power role? Yeah even if I didn't CC you I would be pushing your lynch hella right now. I might have been able to push it without CC'ing you, but ultimately I don't wanna WIFOM with everyone to the point where it would be worth it. Assuming there is two scum here, 1 town power role is a good enough trade for 1 guaranteed scum. 

Holy fucking shit.

You do you realize that it’s completely plausible for Earth to give town a backup investigative and a backup protective role in this case, right? To have all that power on one player who can’t use abilities in one night would weaken town a lot, compared to a setup where all three abilities are split among town and can all be used on the same night.

Additionally, to read my claim as scummy, you’d have to believe that either Earth gave out a bastard fake claim, or that mafia already used their fake claim… which would require you to scumread Earth. Which would require you to ignore everything that made you give her a pass based on her claim.

Mharmans scum. I am not going to say which, but I am counterclaiming one of his abilities as a full time ability. Seems incredibly OP to have a full time of what I am plus an investigative JOAT.

Forget it. I’m done defending from myself from Lunatic’s very shaky psycholoanalysis and damned if I do, damned if I don’t reasoning about whether or not I’d acknowledge an OMGUS.

Whiteflame is on me and not budging as well for… reasons I guess, and Casey wanted my claim despite townreading me.

I could give endless pushback, and I thought about outright refusing to claim. The problem with that is this is the last day of the DP and I want town to move on and find scum.

I am Bowser. I got ahold of the Star Rod, and became damn near invincible. Town JOAT- Watcher, Doctor, Cop.

It’s why I was thinking antagonists in theme split as opposed to bosses earlier; it’s also the reason why I said there was interesting townie point Cerulean had in his favor- he spotted it and told me to be careful about slipping role information… I’m assuming he saw where I said “I can think of one reason town would try really hard to avoid a mislynch, dunno if it applies to Skipper” and correctly concluded I was one such townie. He could’ve kept that observation a secret as scum, but didn’t, probably to hint to a protective role that I may need saving, because he obviously didn’t know that I am a protective role.

VTL Mharman. 

This aggressiveness doesn't feel like his town aggressiveness, it just more like a "I dare you to fvck with me" type of macho vibe, it worries me because I think as town mharman is much more methodical and logical. My gut is telling me this mharman isn't town, so I am going to stick with my vote here. 

Waiting for Monday night, during my final push to prep for trial to pull this...

Knowing it's my most busy time, and once I'm into the evening tomorrow my schedule will open back up...

*slow clap*

That said, I give you credit for tagging me. That's appreciated since I would not have otherwise seen it. So sarcastic slow clap aside, thanks for not being a true bastard.

I think you mentioned the insincerity behind your push. Where you responded and his vote remained. At first I thought, maybe you he just forgot to remove his vote or didn't care. So maybe it didn't indicate insincerity, but his interactions with me seem insincere. 

I'd definitely like to move past him with some sort of claim. It's possible he is insincere but an alternative theory is that he is trying really hard to scum hunt and when you are being high effort it can come across as insincere. So right now and I have not reread any part of the DP, but I am looking for signs that he is either high effort or signs that he really is insincere and it is not a misperception on my part.