ILikePie5

I have no teams I'm gonna theorize right now. I don't really know who to scumread.

My case on Cerulean was dogshit. There are small things about his behavior that bother me, but each and every one of them has a townie explanation. There's also one thing he did that's nagging on me that says he's town.

I'm gonna read into him and Wylted. I thought he had a good point on Wylted, but then came Wylted's rebuttal, which is a bit better of a point imo.

If I find his push on Wylted is reasonable, I'm going to join.

If his push on Wylted is stupid, it nullifies that one townie point, and I'm back on him.

I'll let you know when I'm done reading and thinking.

As for bus theory, lol. I'm not gonna do that super risky shit as scum. Especially not DP1. This is kinda the same point I made to Lunatic: I don't care what you think of my play this game, or my play last game, or how it all might affect me. I'm not taking all the risks I'm taking right now if I am scum.

Conspiracy theory time: do you read this interaction between them as a potential bus or are you really sold on mharmans case

Both my character and my role give scum a lot of information if I claim, I think, so I'd rather avoid doing that today. If a majority want it, though, I'll at least claim my character.

Oho, an actual push on me. Let's see what you've got, Mhar. Reading through it now.

On Skipper and Cerulean?

Well, what I said. Your thoughts on him have some merits, and I really do not like Cerulean's behavior.

So, noticing how he's accusing me (in the same post you called out) and how Cerulean seemed to be doing a similar subtle accusation in his reply to me earlier, I established a link in their behavior, meaning potential collusion.  The logic pipeline is essentially Cerulean -> Skipper for me.

I did however, make note of the fact that Skipper could be town conditioned to overread into me as Cerulean wants, or he could be a teammate sent by Cerulean if he saw no townie was gonna do it. At the time I believed the latter.  

As for now? His recent response to you about he understands your points is kinda pointing me in the direction of the former now; nonetheless I will acknowledge that your original case on him does have some points. I guess I'll say he's up in the air for me after that.

One thing: Sometimes I like to think about possible scum team theories and how they fit into what I'm observing. It helps me figure things out, and it's how I got pointed in Whiteflame's direction last game.

I agree that calling you out for inactivity when you hadn't said anything yet is a little bit weird, but he didn't say "Mharman is less active than I suspect." It's weird that you put that in quotes when he didn't say that. What he actually said was, "For someone who was being a little pushy about getting people to join, you sure haven't bothered to show up yet. By all means, come join the thread." Personally, I read his vote as being an activity vote first and foremost. What makes you so sure it was a reaction test?

I want to pressure Cerulean. His logic on me is basically just "Mharman was less active than usual, I'm kinda sus." Which he doubled down on by keeping his vote on me, but refused to accuse outright. 

1. It's the same terrible logic Banana had on Pie last game.

2. He has a plan behind that looks really good, even if I call it out

3. He doesn't need to be so subtle if this is a genuine reaction test.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25aDpUpoj4k&ab_channel=Eminem-Topic

Alr Cerulean, game on.

The only point I don't agree with is that townies can never be afraid of being mislynched. To some degree, this is correct... scum tends to invest a little bit more into defending themselves from lynches. The big thing, however, is that I can think of a good reason a townie might want to invest a lot into avoiding a mislynch. Does it apply to Skipper? Idk. I do know that I'm not willing to give noobs passes for bad logic; I learned that lesson last game... again, shoutouts to Pie for making that case on Banana.

One thing you missed though: He talks a lot about others being vague, but then does it himself. I guess we all have, but I don't get the lack of self-awareness on his part.

All in all, you have a semi-decent case.

I won't lie, though. I'm more inclined to believe it because it looks like a post one would make while working connection with... Cerulean!

Lemme apply that page I took out of your book and have the balls to say: I think he's trying to bait an OMGUS from me.

I gotta give him props for the plan, too. I OMGUSed Pie in Villainous Villains, and he saw it. So why not start with some terrible logic ("Mharman is less active than I expect")?

If I give pushback, it's OMGUS. Time to pressure for a claim, perhaps a mislynch. If I say nothing, he continues to sneak diss the whole way, implying his sus on me. He can afford to wait for someone else to accuse me, and knows someone from town will eventually try to "pick up what he's putting down," because he's conditioning town to take real nice close look at me. Then, when someone makes their case on me, he gets to parrot, maybe "add to it" a little.

And if he gets called out for it by someone else? He can fall back on it being a reaction test. If I don't believe because, he doesn't need to be so subtle about such a test, or because it all seems too convenient (both of which I am alleging), he can say my pushback is irrational and spin it all back on me saying that he didn't really think I was scum until I reacted this way- he was merely testing me.

And if town is little slow to accuse me for his parrot, he can send his teammate (who is being townread by a few people) to help imply there's a case on me. It's not his first choice, but if he has to do it he has to do it.

Admittedly, I am aware he can spin one of my points back on me. I've also been hesitant to accuse until now, so what gives? Well, I was hesitant because I know if I counter-accuse, he's got what he wants. In a way, I'm giving him just that- except for the fact that someone else from town is starting to take a look at some of these things- you're kinda my hero for being the ice breaker. I'm gonna trust you.

Keep in mind that last game was different in that no one was doing anything early on. If you remember what I said last game, I was annoyed by the fact that everyone else was doing what I've been enjoying lately... sitting back and observing. Which is why I got that party started... no need to do that now.

Buddy, you don't need to defend yourself so aggressively. No one's pointing their finger of suspicion at you yet. Except for me just now, because I find this sudden aggressiveness to be odd.

Mharman - not sure how to feel about him. He hasn't said too much yet, but comparing what he has said to last game, it already feels like he's doing less to try and get the game moving and figure stuff out. Might be reading too deep into it though. Null read for now.

Not sure if I buy Skipper's alleged town noobslips just yet. On the surface, they look nice, but I kinda get the sense he's leaning a little too hard into being a noob. The thing is, I've seen noob town act extra nooby on purpose just out of fear of getting mislynched DP1 of their first game. I did it in my first game, Philosophers IV.

What should be happening during the DP? We try to balance between giving out info and trying to figure out who is who? It's okay to PM other players, right? 

Yes, I read the forum mafia guide and the google docs mafia roles list to understand what I need to. After reading about what I can do in the game, I think I have an important role to play. 

I have questions about the game, but I don't what to ask them in a way that reveals who I am.

I'll start off with some basic ones though. 

What does VTL, SOP, and MYLO/LYLO mean? 

Yeah, that's what I was wondering about as well -- are the characters in this game from across the series, or just the original Paper Mario? Tubba Blubba only appears in the first Paper Mario game according to the wiki, so I'm thinking it might just be that we're all from that one.

There is a theme spilt and mafia has been given a fake claim.

Not according to my role PM. 

My knowledge of the Paper Mario games is virtually nonexistent. I know the Mario franchise as a whole decently well, but I suspect most of the claims will be specific to these games, so my theme knowledge will be pretty minimal at best.

VTL Skipper

Have you played this game before? This is my first time playing with you. I don't think I know anything about you. 

Let's a-go! 

SOP time: I am Tubba Blubba. Despite my tough appearance, I am actually quite sensitive and a big pushover. Because of this, I am the Hated Townie. 

You should try I think

Also, out of curiosity, why do you have a new account every year?

It wouldn’t have made any difference. The problem the democrats faced in this election is that they were running against a fantasy. People remember 2017-2019 being great years, and memory holed 2020. From there, nothing Trump did mattered. No matter how clearly he showed us how ignorant and unprepared he was, no matter how obvious his cognitive decline, no matter how anti constitution he showed himself to be, no matter how self centered and narcissistic he demonstrated himself to be, no matter how unserious everyone knew he was… he was president before and things were good, therefore things will be good again.

Meanwhile every time Kamala opened her mouth she had to show us that she was exceptionally intelligent, understood everything she was talking about, had all the answers, and had to make us feel like she could accomplish anything. The double standards were unlike anything I’ve ever seen.

Even Trump supporters admit that they don’t know what he’s going to do, that’s what people voted for. This is a pass we give to Trump and no one else. The Democrats didn’t stand a chance.

If you piss pie of or disagree with him in general he is likely to want to lynch you, it's why one time when I was mafia I just  straight buddied him and svcked up to his every read, and he basically won the game for me as mafia by leading all the mislynches and town confirming me. You are right that players have ego's, just wrong that it has anything to do with the male/female dynamic lol.

No, no tactic there. I was being me. What you are saying right now though proves my point I was making in day phase one though. You all seem to be okay when men are dicks to anyone, wylted, pie and even you got extremely defensive and angry whenever I would stick up for myself, but when pie or anyone else is an arse than it's okay.

It really is a man's world. I was literally agreeing with you and you were so offended by my comment that you took personal offense to it. You just prove my point. You can say it was my behavior, really, whatever you want. If I got lynched for my role claim fine, but I don't really think that was entirely it. I think you guys saw and took any type of behavior from a a woman that doesn't equal 100% submissiveness and gentleness as toxicity, while ignoring it from your male counterpart.

Happens in society all the time, especially in gaming. A male raging in a game people are way more likely to ignore than a forgive, a female reacts even half the same way she gets called the most deplorable names, made fun of, exiled, etc.

I am used to that type of behavior, but I figured on a debate website maybe there would be slightly higher standards for that sort of behavior. Turns out I was wrong, so yeah, this will be last mafia game, I am not going to continue to engage in this type of sexism going forward. Thanks for proving my point mharman.

Okay, but your next on my list if this goes south.

VTL Iamabanana

Okay, sorry for that. Hated townie will not show up on the vote count. My bad.

Yall were quite pessimistic. Feeling any better?

Also, can someone please just VTL me so we can test my hated townie thing?