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@Greyparrot
I'm pleased you guys think Warren did well.
To be fair she did get a LOT of easy questions to start off the debate, and her base isnt the kind to flip to another candidate willy nilly.
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@Outplayz
Valid point. If she can get up to 5-8% in polls after this maybe people will pay more attention to her, but she still has a hell of an uphill battle to fight despite standing out in this debate.
She certainly is the anti-war candidate of the Dems now. She took down Ryan with fucking tactical precision on that Afghanistan war question.
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I have this feeling that the older Dem voters will put Biden through the first couple states while Sanders and Warren split the hard-left crowd in two.
Tulsi, Castro, Booker might be able to pull it off if one of them pulls off a hell of a surprise victory somewhere
Maybe Amy Klobuchar can do well enough to get a possible VP nod, but as much as I like her she wont win
Rest of the field, especially Beto, are fairly fucked
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In all, I think that Tulsi and Castro performed the strongest by taking massive shits on Beto and Ryan respectively.
De Blasio seemed pretty whiney trying to butt in too many times.
Warren showed some weakness but got enough easy questions to get by
Beto and Ryan are probably good and fucked
Inslee wont be remembered
Inslee wont be remembered
I want to see how Booker does in polls after this. He seemed to get a LOT of airtime and used it fairly okay despite looking hyper focused on getting in as many words as possible.
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Final Wrap ups here we go
Delaney: "Get America working again".... Swing and a miss on that one
De Blasio: "$15 minimum wage! Healthcare! Free Pre-K! I did this in NY, I can do this for the country!"... Doubtful, America isnt NYC
Inslee: "This is our moment"..... Better than what Delaney went with
Ryan: "Every morning, your voice will be heard".... Listen to the ones about getting out of the Middle East first then.
Tulsi: "Usher in this new century with peace prosperity, and justice for all"..... Solid ending
Castro: [Rallies in Spanish] "We will say Adios to Donald Trump"..... Funniest ending I'll give him that
Klobuchar: "I promise I will govern with integrity, have your back, govern for you"..... Played it safe, but I just like her calm demeanor, makes others look like kids
Booker: "This is a referendum on Trump, but also on us."..... As a person from Florida, God help us
Beto: "We will need a new kind of politics. A movement that renews our democracy. This is our moment".... Inslee already said that dude, ffs.
Warren: "I will fight for you as hard as I fight for my own family".... She seemed emotional at the end there, im sure her base will rally around her and stick with her
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@Outplayz
Tonight is pretty underwhelming. They are saying what they are saying... but i don't see anyone really stand out as president. I just wish so many weren't running for president. This is watering down the message by confusing people.
Yeah 10 seems to be much. 8 would be better, but once we get a few primaries in and the herd thins, then we can see some real good shit.
Also agree with you that the big debate is tomorrow once Biden and Sanders and the rest of the pack outside of Warren enters the stage. Warren will probably still be nice and cozy in the polls, but I think that Tulsi and Castro are doing pretty good for themselves.... While Beto is eating raw shit.
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Fuckin stream glitched out just glitched out, missed out on question about who was the biggest threat to the US >.>
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Did Beto just bring up the Rwanda Genocide then transition to talking about how Trump has alienated our allies in the same breath? Cant even remember what the damn question was about?
Solid point about going to war without Congressional authorization, but its coming from De Blasio so nobody will probably give a shit in at least 3 days, if not 3 hours or 3 minutes.
Question to Ryan: "Taliban killed 2 in Afghanistan, why is the war in Afghanistan ongoing and how could you get us out?"
Ryan: [Basically] "We have to stay engaged in this but the reality is that Trump doesnt even have people appointed to deal with things like this, we need to be engaged"
Not the best argument to make. Question is about how do we get out of Afghanistan not how would you handle foreign affairs.
Tulsi hitting Ryan in the mouth as an ex soldier saying we have to get out of Afghanistan and that 'being engaged' is not acceptable. Granted, he is referring to staying engaged in foreign affairs, but he fucked himself by not answering the question right in the first place.
Doubles down saying 'If we do not stay engaged, the Taliban will gain strength"
Tulsi not having it, winning the crowd to her side fast, Ryan really shooting herself in the foot. Tulsi tries to worm in a dig at Saudi Arabia at the end there but no one catches it.
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Amy falling down the hole of just listing general things Dems clearly like and saying you support those things
Castro bringing up Dylan Roof being taken without incident but then listing a half dozen others who died in police confrontations to try to appeal to the latino vote. Interesting argument to use, not sure if THIS question was the one to use that as an answer.
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Tulsi confronted about her past non-support for LGBT. Keeps it brief by admitting she made a mistake, refers to her recent record of support for LGBT, kinda throws her Indian heritage under the bus for why she was resistant at first (pretty understandable since Hinduism has its confusing parts).
Booker shining the light on Trans + Black LGBT who are targeted the most and that there are protections that need to be fiercely fought for . Tulsi cant fight back because Moderators want to speedily move along, fucks sake its like they dont want another Castro-Beto fight to break out >.<
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Castro at least getting some points for being the first to mention the Paris Climate Agreement
Solid question about pricing carbon failing in other countries to Tim Ryan (90's cyborg), talks about focusing on workers in the midwest, taking out Lindsey Graham and Mitch McConnell, not being the 'Ivy League' party, all over the place the question was about it being tough to get Carbon Taxing
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Fuck I have to work tomorrow I cant deal with this all night
Castro gets a good question about people living in places they shouldnt be living
"I don't think that represents a vast majority of the issue"
Dodging achieved. -__-
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John Delaney being way the fuck more sensible by preaching about bipartisanship and not preaching about impossible goals
Booker's response about how he got a criminal justice reform act passed sounds nice but it falls apart when you realize criminal justice reform is a bipartisan issue..... When it comes to something more partisan, McConnell will shut that shit down the moment he gets the chance to.... Booker in the same camp as Warren in terms of delusion in overpowering McConnell, but at least Booker is better in disguising it than Warren, yet Delaney is above both of them by aiming for 'sensible' rather than 'we will achieve the impossible'
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Booker really going for gold in the 'List-the-most-generic-policies-that-have-already-been-proven-to-be-popular-with-democrats' contest.
To Warren: "Do you have a plan to work with Mcconnell if the Dems dont win the Senate?"
Warren: "I do"
(Long pause)
Warren: "The will of the people matters. For too long we have a Congress that dismisses what people want. They want to make it better for coprorations and lobbyists and not for the people.... (more babble).... We have to fight, we have to push from the outside, we have to have leadership from the inside, we have to push for the will of the people"
In other words, she doesnt have a plan.
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Ryan: "90% of school shooters come from the school, 73% feel shamed, mental health counseling needs to be reformed"
Really good point, its a shame he looks like a cyborg for an okay 1990's movie nobody really saw. Not sure he can rise up in the polls given how bland he looks as a person.
Beto again doing the time honored thing of just listing a bunch of general points that have already been talked about where basically everyone (who is a democrat) will support it.
Amy gets a gun confiscation(?) question about gun buy-back proposals, handles it okay by also being fairly vague and keeping it safe, but seems more relaxed and calm compared to Beto.
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Booker raising a middle finger to the 'Thoughts and Prayers' remark but avoids specific details by insisting 'its not policy, its personal'..... Could have been a stronger response, but certainly not the worst response.
Castro in the follow up going balls to the wall by claiming the Dems will have the White House, House, AND the Senate.... Pump the brakes there man, the question is about gun control.
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Question to Warren: "What do you do about all the guns that would still be on the streets even if an assault weapons ban is implemented"
Warren decent in pointing out that its not just mass shootings that cause the most problems and that everyday violence is an issue in the nation, then touches up on universal background checks and have to treat the problem like its a virus, but cant answer the question "What about all the guns still out there".... Rough answer to the first question she gets that isnt a softball question
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Fuckin of course theres audio issues where NBC has to go to another commercial break to fix the problem
Almost seems reflective of the debate in a nutshell.... "Hang tight, we're trying to get our shit together here"
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Maddow and Chuck Todd taking over now.... Will we get more safe softball questions or will we get some juicy shit this time?
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Apparently Julian Castro searches have spiked on google by 2,400% since the debate began. Probably a good sign and a solid boost for his campaign, as long as their isnt another debate tomorrow where he could easily get swept under the rug as people forget who he-.... Oh wait
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The more Amy talks the more I think she would be a competent fit to the job compared to some of these other guys, she makes a good point about how we are pushing Iran more towards Russia and China with these flare-ups and heightened tensions
Tulsi also fairly composed but still being fairly predictable "We should not get into war"
Tulsi also fairly composed but still being fairly predictable "We should not get into war"
'What is your Red line' question a solid one
"An attack on us would be a red line, but we need to de-escalate"
Average response looks that much better with De Blasio being told to shut his mouth as the next commercial kicks in XD him and Beto are not looking strong rn
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Iran questions, maybe this will be good seeing as how much dark shit the US has done to Iran in the past
'Who would sign on to the nuclear deal with Iran as first negotiated?'
Nope, looks like theyre playing it safe as fuck. -____-
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A good ass question to ask rn would be if these candidates agreed with the number of deportations Obama had while he was in office because he deported a LOT of people in the second half of his term, and having to choose between obvious moral high ground vs Obama's legacy would be interesting to see candidates grapple with.
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I like how Amy isnt rushing to get in as many words as she wants to in the time she has. Seems very calm and collected and mature, which in this field are good qualities to have since everyone else apart from Warren seem worried that if they dont get out of single digits in polls soon their goose is cooked.
Been a while since Warren got a question, but if she gets another softball question from the mods then my eyes are going to roll out of the back of my skull.
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MASSIVE Fuck You to Beto from Castro about not wanting to get rid of the 13 25 rule, Beto fighting back, now we have a fuckin fight and Castro coming out strong
"The reason you didnt want to was because you were concerned about traffiking, but title 18, 21, and 22 cover those, I think you should do your homework on the issue you would know different"
"The reason you didnt want to was because you were concerned about traffiking, but title 18, 21, and 22 cover those, I think you should do your homework on the issue you would know different"
You know the punches are bad when the moderators have to step in to stop it, that was BAD for Beto right there, oof.
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De Blasio trying to really prove to people he deserves to be able to run for president getting a little shouty all of a sudden, I wonder if he would consider dropping out following this debate if his numbers dont change.
Beto O'Rourke also going full Spanish but getting pushback on the question from Castro, he's just talking over him rn and it sounds like a mess.
Beto O'Rourke also going full Spanish but getting pushback on the question from Castro, he's just talking over him rn and it sounds like a mess.
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"Dont criminalize desperation" There you go Castro, and also bonus points for pointing out the specific rule (Section 13 25) that he has the issue with.
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Castro: "Pathway to citizenship!" Called it
Thought he should reign it in on the hispanic accent on certain words, but then Booker goes straight Spanish with his response in a big fuck you to Castro, who in hindsight, probably isnt the best name to have when campaigning in Florida
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Commercial Break
I already am almost done with the debate just because the questions are generic as shit. Just about every question that has been asked so far has already been answered 3 to 4 months earlier by candidates giving rally speeches. No one really standing out as everyone plays their cards with the utmost carefulness, makes me look forward to see what goes down tomorrow when Biden and Sanders are on the stage
Looking forward to see how SNL parodies this
Next questions about immigrant children in camps, can already see how every question is going to be answered
'What is going on is criminal, it is outlandish, it is entirely the fault of Trump, this country was built on welcoming immigrants, and we need to reform our immigration system. We need a clear path to citizenship, amnesty, etc'
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Castro: 'I dont believe in reproductive freedom, I believe in reproductive justice'
???
Tries to spin it to sound sensible but loses focus by the end
Question to Warren: "Would you have limits to when women could have a restriction on abortion?"
Pretty sure this is NBC apologizing to Warren for putting her in the little-kids debate, what is this, softball question # 4 or 5?
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Gabbard pointing out that many overseas countries with government healthcare have some form of private care on the side is a good point but she doesnt really indicate how much she believes medicare for all is the way to go outside of just saying so
Booker: 'There are too many people profiting off of pain' is a decent line but he devolves into a pitch line
Jay Inslee: "I am the only candidate who has passed a law protecting public option + womens right to choose' well hes a governor which gives him that ability, if anyone else on stage were in that spot they would do the same thing
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Beto asked to explain his change of heart is a bit of a fastball question compared to the softballs Warren gets, but buying time with a story of someone he met before mentioning the jail system is the biggest healthcare provider in the state was a good way to stay afloat. Really goes off the edge though by steering the question towards abortion before trying to stick with private insurance
'Keep whats working, fix whats broken' solid interruption by I think Delaney (they dont have names beneath the candidates for fuck knows why) that made Beto and I think De Blasio (the guy who agreed with Warren earlier) look like dingus's
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'Would you abolish your own healthcare to accept government healthcare?' Interesting question where only Warren and one other guy raises their hand, the rest of the Dems decline.
Amy hitting Trump on failing to reduce prescription costs was a solid hit, but Warren being asked if she agrees with Bernie on [insert topic here] is easy softball question number 3. Of course she agrees with Bernie on this, Bernie got 90% of his support in 2016 from people who wanted Warren to run.
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Havent heard one person on stage say anything interesting that all the other candidates havent already mentioned at least 100 times each over the past 4 months already, not sure that will change by the end of the debate. Tim Ryan pointing out just how much wealth the top 1% have compared to everyone else is case in point
Warren question: 'Are these jobs coming back?' 2 for 2 on easy softball questions.... Maybe the reason the answers arent interesting is cause the questions theyre being asked are generic as fuck.
'We need to go 10 fold on research on green energy' Hey something unique, too bad she doesnt get into specifics and just keeps it vague as hell
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Castro gets the Equal-pay question, good fuckin luck
Starting with passing the Equal Rights Amendment is a good start for a response rather than look like a fringe lunatic, then falls back on just saying 'they should get paid equally'. Played it about as well as he could have
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Tulsi Gabbard flexing her national security and army qualifications and focusing on foreign wars, wants to take tax dollars and invest in yatta yatta yatta i dont even remember what the question was but she played that super safe
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Income inequality in NYC question for De Blasio, goes off on 'free college', 'break up big corporations', and all that...
Delaney focusing on the minimum wage, paid family leave, believes that gets to the living wage, aaaaaand now hes onto education spending before going into his own history as a businessman. Good strategy bragging about getting awards from Obama administration for loaning to disadvantaged people, but Good fuckin lord could can someone give a memorable answer?
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Booker saying a whole lot of nothing trying to step around the question of whether he agrees with Warren about breaking up certain companies jsut because they have such a big hold on certain products in certain industries
Steers a little back on track towards the end but not much of an impression
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The Warren follow up question seems like a softball question 'Is she picking winners and losers' with her strategy, plays it safe in just being against 'the corruption' from 'within the system' funded by 'the superpacs' whereas she wants to 'return the government to the people' because she has the 'courage' to 'go after them'
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Just gonna have a running commentary on the Dem debate. Missed the very opening but got in early enough to see Beto O'Rourke speak in Spanish
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@blamonkey
Nah I didnt really get into DDO itself until college and at that point it was just a nice little time-dump for me to use whenever I grew bored of playing games on a freakin Mac, so I missed the boat to get into IRL debating by a wide margin
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@blamonkey
Well when debates are in the open challenge section it allows anyone interested in the topic to do a crash course on the subject before accepting it. I did that all the time back when I was in my debating phase on DDO. Assuming that the instigator of the debate did research of their own before creating it, then both sides would be somewhat balanced in terms of knowledge of the topicit really would come down to who had the most prep offhand for such a topic.
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It's an interesting idea.... But I think half an hour would probably be a better time frame to put as the minimum time limit for what you're proposing though.... Reading the opponents arguments, coming up with counter arguments, looking for research to back up your arguments, then actually typing them out and editing before submitting the final version.... Trying to do all of that in just 5 to 15 minutes is a pretty harrowing task to accomplish without forfeiting any rounds, especially if you have to do all that 3-4 or more times in a row in one sitting.
The only way it could work is if arguments for such debates are kept to an incredibly small character limit. 2000 characters at most I think would be the limit of how much you could allow, just so that both sides have a chance to put something together in such a small time frame.... (If you're not sure how much 2000 characters looks like, This single post clocks in at around 1,030 characters, a bit over half of what would be allowed in a 2000 character limited debate)
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@Barney
There's a lot to be said in favor of that idea, particularly to the related problem of people trying to win arguments in the comment section. For the main problem under discussion, I suspect the problem people would spew their hate through PMs more than they do already.
Oh there will always be lunatics who fly into an unhinged rage the moment you do something that offends the version of reality they desperately want to live in... With limits to the comment section during debates though, that gives voters another shield/defense against self-centered debaters who contest any vote that goes against them. People can choose to not accept PM's, block a person after theyve explained their vote, or at least keep the convo out of the comments section entirely
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Im not sure if it was on DDO or not, but Ive seen the idea of having debaters be unable to comment on their own debates once they entered the voting period (then be allowed again after voting ended) be floated in the past.... Would be tough to program is the thing, but it would allow those involved in the debate to clarify anything about the debates in the comments during the debating period itself, but then have them remain silent during the voting period to prevent against pressuring or tampering
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Oh good they brought this over here from the site as well!
original thread for anyone confused:
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I consent to be insulted as part of the Dart roast group.
I might not participate much myself since I only wander on here once every four days or so, but why not
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@bsh1
It sure seems like people are on board with the idea and that the only issue is where specifically to draw the line in the sand, which would make it perfect for a MEEP thread to sort out once and for all.
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The thing about spammed debates is that while they are annoying, they do serve a purpose in enticing people to actually participate in debates by believing they are essentially free wins... Then those same people who got the free wins try doing debates of their own that are superior and better organized in terms of content and structure. Some of the first debates I did on DDO were ones I took just cause they looked pretty easy, and that led to me making tons of them myself later on.
However, there are people so tremendously idiotic that they make tons of debates and do poorly on all of them repeatedly (Type1). I think Vi Spex on DDO made nearly a thousand debates with a vast majority of them being complete nonsense or got no votes and nothing was ever done about it even though he basically clogged the open-debate-section with pure sh*t...... Some people in this thread have proposed a cap limit of 3 debates at a time, I would be a little more lax and put it at 6 debates at a time, then if someone really takes it too far or spams a bunch of stupidity their rights could be further restricted.
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@oromagi
Yeah DDO was a great place to burn some time if you were bored or feeling creative. When I was in college and had lots of down time I spent a sh*tload of time on there doing all sorts of different things. Nowadays I'm more preoccupied with life and only check in on this site once every couple of days now, but it undeniably has that same potential DDO had during its golden days
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1) Saying you 'claimed' something is different than saying you 'believe/believed' in something. I only said that you claimed to make that statement in a debate, not that you genuinely believed it.
2) Thats the part of my response you want to dispute? XD
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