Lemming

Countries existed before the UN, before NATO,

Have existed in places where other countries did not want to identify a country, as a country,

Have existed even without other countries having embassies in it.

You're talking a 'specific legal recognition,

And ignoring 'other definitions.

. . .

It doesn't matter if 'I don't want to go,

There hasn't been a 'single war in American history, that I think I'd like to go,

. .

'Yet, many of those wars have been vital for American independence, American interests, Safety, Security.

I think sending soldiers could be a reasonable response,

Appeasement was not shown as a great policy, in WW2 towards Germany.

And even 'then, the cowardice and immorality, of abandoning other countries was understood.

Eh, depends how you define a country,

From my perspective, your definition is bewilderingly narrow, is looking at situation with blinders on.

Eh, 'could be that you 'just view the issue as undisputable, and wish to state such, as other interpretations bother you.

Though I've theories I think more likely.

. .

I don't know,

Probably some cannon on them,

By Lucas or one/many of the various writers.

They 'do seem to have a negative bent though, in appearances.

. .

Not an uncommon view,

Life being a jungle, struggle.

Though a person who turns 'everything into a powerplay, 'focuses on it a ton, can be irritating to be around.

, ,

Still, even when not in a war of guns vs guns,

Humans often fighting politically, economically, competing.

Human body fighting entropy, viruses,

People social interaction, sometimes a fight,

Some people talking over conversation, asserting dominance, their way or highway.

'Some interaction, some fight somewhere.

./ . . . . .  . . . . . . . .

Though, on another hand, in life,

Many people cooperative,

Many people turn the other cheek.

. .

Still, a person determined in the conflict view, 'could still use conflict terms to describe,

Workable, as a perspective,

Though not a perspective I'd obsess on 'all the time,

More enjoyable to say peace, more normal speaking, often.

I agree,

But it doesn't mean the USA can't or won't send military aid.

Nor does it prevent 'individuals from fighting for Taiwan.

As soldiers once fought for China.

https://www.npr.org/2021/12/19/1062091832/flying-tigers-americans-china-world-war-ii-history-japan#:~:text=They%20were%20called%20the%20American,equipped%20and%20larger%20aircraft%20fleet.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 

I am curious though,

Why you so vehemently deny Taiwan is a country?

If it's people are willing to fight,

And America has obligations there,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan_Relations_Act#:~:text=The%20TRA%20requires%20the%20United,of%20the%20people%20on%20Taiwan."

If America believes in freedom,

Seems a reasonable policy,

Though I am a bit disinclined to die for 'anyone,

Some moments could occur in life, where I'd be willing.

Also the chip industry, good to keep open,

And discouraging aggression by powerful nations that don't have American interests.

@Sir.Lancelot

Got off work about 6 hours ago,

Slept about 6 hours this morning,

Feels good.

@Dr.Franklin

Eh, people sometimes have hidden sides,

But all my interactions with TheRealNihilist, have been positive.

If I've been consuming the caffeine, I think too much while trying to sleep,

Most other times, even if there's some stress event, I can manage not to think too much,

If I have plenty of 'time and no caffeine, just thinking happy thoughts, I'll fall asleep easy enough,

Other times, for me, it helps 'not to look at the time, which causes thoughts of running out of time worry, also the light keeping awake,

Other times counting 'numbers, can turn my brain off a bit, I fall asleep that way sometimes.

Motivation 'can be hard,

It's hard to just 'Be motivated, I find,

Motivation is what 'allows a person to 'just take this or that action,

But if motivation lacks, hard to 'motivate oneself into 'having motivation.

. .

Fear or anxiety 'sometimes motivates though, fear of some 'greater anxiety or fear, that will occur if action is not taken,

Though it 'also 'demotivates, often.

Nose fracture 'does sound complicated, rough,

Especially if too much time goes by, I would 'think but not know, that it's easier to mend, the fresher it is.

My eldest brother has trouble sleeping often,

And me, but for me it's only if I overslept the day before work, or had a bunch of caffeine from something.

Fingers crossed then, on the upcoming months.

It's easy to let problems stick around,

If one doesn't get 'additional problems, it's not too bad,

But having them stack up can be bad.

Nothing else works for the nose?

I'd imagine the internet has various suggestions, that people try or use, depending on the cause.

Positions of sleeping, special tape across the nose (nasal strip) or something,

Breathing machine (Though those can be loud).

Another milestone, certainly.

Summer is nice, warm, sun, blue sky,

Though I'd like to work less, to enjoy it more.

Reread Lord of the Rings recently,

To take a break from another book,

On War by Clausewitz, maybe if I took notes it'd be easier, or an excuse not to try to read it in the future, but halfway in, so feel a need to finish it.

How are you doing?

I like looking at past forums at times,

And I was feeling existential, yours's came to mind,

One I wondered about,

As I do wonder on how people 'handle problems they air out to other people.

How is sleep?

How is work?

I'm doing pretty good,

Bit tired yesterday, so just mind tired, wandering, nothing serious, just way one's mind travels at times.

Hm, I turned 30 yesterday,

Managed to procrastinate 8 chapters, 3000 words each, of a book, this year,

Awful book, railroad plot, dull characters and reactions, stretched like taffy.

Still working on a game idea I started thinking on, last year 10 months or so,

'Barely any progress, but it's fun to think on, mechanics and what.

Ah, hey dude!

I would like to write a book, even if it was of low quality,

I don't like writing, and I like not writing,

But it seems a thing to do, a mirror to hold,

Something to grip and brag.

Be nice to design a video game,

Well enough that it 'could be produced from the template,

But I'm lazy, and I enjoy not working on it,

Also I get too ambitious, but that's fine, hobbies.

I'd like to laze about on a small inflatable raft on the lake in the sun this summer,

Darn employer, no 2 days in a row off, at 'least next couple weeks,

Well, incentive to quit, once I've been there long enough it doesn't look bad on a resume.

Most people are just living their short life,

'Maybe thinking as far as their kids life.

Even 'locale climate change people don't think on so much,

People can move,

Or just don't think much hurricanes,

After all, hurricanes come and go, land is still livable after the devastation.

Lot of people say water's are going to rise in places,

'Smart long planning would be to build like the Netherlands, (Maybe),

Their system of dykes and what,

And what better time to build 'before the water rises?

Eh, maybe they're already doing that in some places,

Though I don't know if it's 'enough.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Lot of people no power,

Depends on big government,

To set the way,

Not that Texas communities 'couldn't build private electric or emergency electric systems (I assume),

Or stock up on provisions far ahead of time.

I'd dig into the Rocky Mountains,

And build it outer space tight,

Not that I expect any end of the world, anytime soon,

But who knows natural disasters, man made disasters,

Mars used to be nicer. . .

But as I'm not rich,

As I'm not immortal,

Or particularly altruistic,

I'm just going to live my selfish life, hope I live to one hundred, and that nothing 'too bad happens in 'my lifetime.

I find sites as this 'invaluable for pondering the past,

Pity that one isn't able to smoosh all their internet posts easily together,

Though likely there is 'some method one could use, to easily record such, alas I am lazy.

But I 'do ponder the past a fair bit on sites such as this,

Before the internet, I imagine people read over their letters, sent and received a fair bit,

Mulled over old thoughts.

Ignorance 'might be bliss,

But still,, generally speaking, I would not choose it.

If I were to choose 'another country,

. . . Maybe Canada,

Near the USA,

They 'mostly speech English I think,

North islands might be interesting.

The 'point some atheists miss,

When some theist argues what is stopping you from doing X?

. . .

The atheist often responds, well I just don't want to,

Or genetics stops me,

. . .

But can't they see the hopelessness?

. . .

X is 'not wrong,

It's simply a happenstance of the moment,

From the atheist view,

The most horrifying mind boggling evil,

Is 'not the most horrifying mind boggling evil,

It is nothing, like everything,

Foul formless, shapeless, meaningless,

Yet even foul I cannot say, if I 'try to keep to logic,

But there is no logic, no empiricism, nothing, noTHING. . .

Blegh,

I'll feel better after I sleep,

But I expect I'll be awake a while,

Maybe I'll feel better after I eat or do various other things in the day,

But I'm sleep deprived today,

Be uncomfortable throughout,

But if I go to sleep I'll have less time.

Blegh,

No speech or words either,

And yet here I 'seem,

You all 'seem.

. . . . . . . . . . . . .

Sometimes I 'really don't want to end.

I recall that Plato was of the view that governments tended to go through 5 different variations, in a cycle.

Of course 'any society lasts long enough, it's likely to change into 'something else, I would think.

I vaguely 'think I recall a number of Communists, might have been Marx,

Make the argument that Communism 'needed to evolve out of a well developed society, 'might have specifically been capitalism, I don't recall.

One of the arguments people make about Communism not doing so well in Russia, the lack of development, economically, infrastructure, so on,

Though really Russia at that time, and the Communist leadership, people, had 'many problems.

Myself, I want to exist, not die, though hopefully dying is still some far off day.

Other people, my second brother,

Though when I say 'change, it's rather that I hope our persuasion would change him of his own free will, to quit drugs,

If it was 'forced change, I'm not sure I'd be for it,

Barring forced rehab,

But the word 'change is vague, there's change and then there's 'change.

Other people in the world? Important people?

I don't know.

Would changing various leaders 'really change their movements and countries?

Movements sometimes 'bigger than individuals,

Other's easy willing to take up the movement.

. . .

Maybe whatever guy has the most wealth that they aren't sharing,

If I could 'convince, not lobotomize change them, into sharing it,

Be good for people, I suppose.

Not sure It'd be good for the rich guy,

Also doubtful 'I'd want to change.

. .

Hm, maybe convince some rich guy to start up some Communist city or state,

Though again, not that 'I'd live there, probably,

But does 'sound nice, for there to be less inequality,

More time for ease, less work work work.

Three,

I'm the third child of my family,

Three's a nice number of ice cubes sometimes,

Other reasons as to why? I don't know. . .

Not really a 'lucky number for me, I just like it.

Heh,

Not sure I'd want to 'use it as a lucky number either,

Suppose it's a popular lucky number,

Suppose you use it on something similar to the lottery, then have to share the prize with X many people.

Ignorance is bliss,

It's better not to think about the rules of the game,

How I regret yet affirm my nihilism, life,

For I hate to regret, despise the idea of not loving myself, not living,

Ah contradictions, paradoxes. . .

Sometimes I hope there's nothing next,

Other times I fear nothing next,

Sometimes I 'hope something's next.

Aye, that was what came to my mind, upon reading of a computer whose goal is to “understand the true nature of the universe.” 

That Mitchell and Webb Look - Kill All The Poor

I believe it doesn't really matter 'much, except as a point of style, to quote Einstein, in the particular way that FLRW did it.

I don't believe that appeal to authority is a 'fallacy,

I view it as a practical 'small weight added to the scale an individual uses to gauge questions.

. . .

Jah, Einstein might have changed his mind throughout life,

People do,

. . .

I like quotes,

They are 'stylish, speak well thoughts we have.

I used a lot in one of my dueling debates,

Many of the quotes were by fictional villains,

But since I used their words, well, I needed to say whom I was quoting, lest I seem to be claiming the words original works of my own.

If one looked close to the people 'quoted, might cause some voters to vote against me,

But bah, I like those quotes I used.

Stylish.

42.

Even for the not being an atheist remark,

Which I sarcastically truncated,

There's more nuance to it.

'Throughout his life, he made negative and positive comments towards religion,

The quote you use in #45 is not some 'new revelation of his views,

But one in the vein of many others he made throughout life.

Yet he also included positive statements towards religion on life,

If he has said something positive in his last words, then 10 seconds later followed it with something negative,

I can imagine you saying, "Oh! his last words were somewhat negative towards religion. Einstein Hates religion!"

Ignoring how 'many of his comments in history 'specifically disagreeing with the 'personal god aspect of religion.

Eh, Albert Einstein said a lot of things.

Admittedly I am cherry picking here,

But I do this only to disagree with the post, that to 'me reads,

This smart guy said something against religion,

You should be against religion too.

I think there's more nuance to it,

I use Bacon as an example of how science and religion can coincide within an individual respected for their intellectual achievements,

#40 sounds more an appeal to authority.

Though it is very possible, I am mistaken in my view of #40.

I'm unsure if unified beliefs in science or religion would have a unified effect,

I want to say that different ideas, keep each other in check a bit,

Can 'grow societies as ideas improve,

Having 'nothing to push against, strive against, perhaps one becomes slack, lax, lazy, weak in muscle, mind, and meaning.

Maybe.

. . . . . . . .

There's also societies I think we would consider unified in ideas, yet 'still they have conflict,

Let's say there is a city,

Let's assume the people in the city are much the same,

Yet 'still people compete,

Gangs, even when of same background, often fight.

. .

One might say gangs aren't 'normal society,

But even nations of similar beliefs will fight,

Though unite, against an outsider often.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

I think religion 'can have much to do with conflict,

But the causes of conflict isn't something I've studied much.

. .

Resources, Tribalism,

I might rate more highly than religion, as causes of war.

Religion is just 'one label,

People have many labels,

Many items to find in common or uncommon.

Even the uncommon, if it is not 'vital value, not always important to people.

. .

One doesn't always like outsiders encroaching on living space,

But people could be of same religion, religion might not matter if people value something else too, such as tribe, or genetics.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

I believe that I have read of 'many religious individual, systems, groups,

Who have added to science over the years,

Who have examined and promoted their own faiths from logical arguments.

When Jesus speaks the Parable of the Fields,

Or Mencius of Ox Mountain,

. .

Is this not 'observation of what we can see? Of evidence, logic, experience?

There 'can be a conflict of interests,

Doesn't mean there 'has to be.

. .

My concern with the 'new civilization, is people will adopt 'something,

Some laws, creed, values, religious or not,

And as my definition of religion is wide and vague. . . Mm. . Anyway I don't know.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

I don't know if society would be better, if everyone was the same Religion,

It would probably be healthy to at least have an overlap of Values, Violent conflict otherwise,

. .

It is good to have many ideas in a society,

But some key Features 'must be assumed, Religious or not.

If all Atheist, well even Atheists disagree with one another,

It's more important to have the overlap of values/features,

Than the tag of Religious or Atheist I think,

. .

Religious Person 1 says help each other, Religious Person 2 says harm other,

Atheist Person 1 says harm each other, Atheist Person 2 says harm other,

I think many would see the value of help or harming, more important than the Religious or Atheist tag,

Though not 'all, some might see the other Religious/Atheist Person's Help/Harm as something to suffer through until there are no more Religious/Atheists, 'Then to go after the people who disagree on Help/Harm.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Some religions have been crappy, some atheists have been crappy,

Whether they burn people for supposedly being a witch, (Though it's more nuanced than that)

Or they guillotine people for being religious.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 

Plenty of religious people were into science,

Plenty of Science made great headway thanks to religious individuals and organizations.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 

Religious person values Z,

Religious person see's that many people are Y, suggests that by doing X, less people might be Y.

Analyzes how many people might be Y by action of doing X,

Does X if he thinks less people will be Y if he does X,

See's results, encourages or discourages X action.

'Thoughtful, I'd call a key feature.

Plenty of philosophy and religion say we value X for this or that reason,

How might we promote X?

Then test and think on various ways.

I don't think science and religion 'must be at odds.

Course on another hand (How many hands do I have?)

Though on another hand,

Much of life might not be called utopia, for many people,

Even in rich countries.

They themselves suffer,

Many people trading places, trading turns, trading currency,

Blood, sweat, tears, time, life, existence,

Existing in currency, what one earns,

What one trades to others for their suffering wrought products, goods.

. . .

Hm, I'm tired, could use some sleep.

What about YouFound_Lxam's interpretation do you disagree with?

And why say you, that he is 'confusing it with empathy, care, of other beings?

. . .

Though even if one walks away from Omelas,

How does one avoid walking into 'another Omelas?

Does walking away 'truly cease a situation?

I've never actually 'read Omelas, but I think on the concept at times.

. . .

In 'society, it is hard to 'avoid Omelas, perhaps,

Even living alone in the wilderness,

All the land upon Earth seems claimed.

Even living alone,

One's safety is protected by the government, and all it's actions, moral and immoral,

Should they be destroyed, other governments, less kind may come.

Unless one should find some deep dark hole away from all,

How to avoid Omelas?

Yet 'knowledge follows us,

Knowledge 'gained by civilizations, their actions moral and immoral,

Unless one were to wipe clean their mind, how to avoid Omelas?

Yet even were one to wipe their mind. . .

There 'starting point, and thanks, was Omelas. . .

. . . .

Course there's something to be said for the present and future,

Not participating,

Even if one cannot avoid the past.

. . .

I imagine the scapegoat be a common philosophy thought as well,

. . .

I'm more fond of voluntary self sacrifice,

Than involuntary sacrifice of another,

Though even self sacrifice, I might caution some against.

. . .

The choice of being born,

For me it is that 'one moment,

Not all the risks after, that bother me so,

But that one moment,

Though why be it magnified in my mind, if 'not for the magnitude of possible risk, scope of 'life, after?

. . .

Mm. . .

Coherent framework people make,

To inflict some suffering for self or clan interest.

. .

Raiding enemy tribes for life and safety of one's own clan,

Or forcing one's rule, to avoid worse rule,

Magnifying whatever one values. . .

... . . .

I suppose people who argue that everyone is one,

Might argue we can not harm another, only ourselves,

But I don't know much about such beliefs, I might be representing them,

Though it falls a bit into practical incoherence for me, , , well, 'my current 'coherence, set ideas of existence,

Chess rules I follow, though nihilist,

Humans have rules, frameworks, genetics, drives.

But this is as far as my random musing goes today, (Probably)

Perhaps tomorrow, new browser tabs to be opened.

I suppose one might argue it is better to cause children into existence,

That the world is more good than bad,

Assuming they follow the person's teachings and ideas of what is good.

A world where many people steal,

Better that I steal and redistribute what I steal,

Kind of view.

Hm, still it assumes stealing an inevitability, the people that were stolen from yet stole not, might not agree.

I would prefer to live in a society that did not legally allow abortion the day before birth,

'Unless there be reasons such as a significant risk to the mothers life.

I think, I would prefer to choose for myself,

Whether I live or die.

Though admittedly one might argue,

That some being could exist, 'far more knowledgably than myself,

Or I could be placed in a situation, where my knowledge has left me.

. . 

As things stand though, I am not convinced you know better than myself, what is good for me,

Sofar as the (Generally agreed notion of 'Good goes)

. . .

Sorry about the poetry below,

But this conversation strikes some chord in me,

That past thoughts, observations in me, want to sing.

- 20Aug2016

- 5July 2017

'Still life has enjoyment for me.

There is contradictions in man,

Sometimes the ending rings high against the living,

But 'I, have 'always wanted to live.

Then as I said earlier,

Other people are more than willing to make up in population, For the individuals that do not produce, I am thinking.

Whether an individual contributes to the problem or not,

It's possible that that the situation results anyhow,

Though I've not followed that line of thought in my head fully yet.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

A person who chooses not to have kids for selfish reasons,

Sounds also the type of person to take advantage of others or disregard for others, for selfish reasons,

Though they wouldn't 'have to be.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 

The legality of stages of fetus abortion varies,

To say it should be done when it is legal, does not fully inform me of your view,

Though you say it should be done as early as possible,

Such a statement is vague in 'reason it should be done as fully as possible.

I ask then whether in locations where it is legal to abort an unborn, a day before natural birth,

Whether it falls into the philosophy you have espoused in this thread, to abort said unborn?

What is the 'purpose of pointing something out to other people?

Is it 'not to attempt to change their behavior?

If I point out a mud puddle in front of someone, am I not trying to get them to avoid stepping in it?

. . ..

Though I suppose some people might simply enjoy the act, of pointing out to others,

Feel some thrill,

Certainly I point out happenings to people now and then, for reasons other than to change their behavior.

. . .

I view there to be 'many 'claimed laws of morality.

. . .

I couldn't say if people who follow antinatalism are usually good and smart.

I've not reached solid conclusions on the subject of antinatalism myself,

And I don't know enough statistics about people who follow it in history.

Though I note your 'reason for calling such a person smart, 'sounds of a self interested person.

. . .

Some people on this site,

View the unborn as a fetus, even a day before it's birth,

Yet such a stage of development, in my view, 'Is 'Not as dissimilar to a person, as cum.

I ask,

What stage of development do 'you speak,

When you say, 'fetus?

If this thread is not about your questioning the validity of your theory,

Would it 'not be about convincing others?

Certainly 'some people hold the view of Antinatalism.

I 'still disagree with abortion though.

A person must already 'exist, in order for them to be aborted, (From some people's viewpoints)

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@NoOneInParticular

It is bad to kill, (Generally viewed)

But to 'not kill,

To not resist,

To not enforce one's own beliefs,

Results in 'other's beliefs and rule.

If one makes use of the knowledge other's gained by torture,

One participated.

If one adopts children other's had,

One participated.

. .

Hm, I recall 3RU7AL saying something about Trolley's on Discord.

50% of women is a lot,

And some families in history were 'massive.

I think you are unlikely to convince any nation or location not to have kids,

And logically if they didn't have kids,

They would die out and their land would then be taken by people who 'do have kids.

. .

Even if they adopted,

They would arguably be causing people to come into existence by creating an incentive for 'other people to have kids.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Euthanasia 'is legal in some American states,

Though one 'does wonder a bit, 'what jurisdictions, laws are meant by, illegal.

I also find the implication that you'd suggest murdering healthy wanting to live people, a bit disturbing,

But, you have said in the past not to take you seriously, so ah well.

. . .

Other people are more than willing to make up in population,

For the individuals that do not produce, I am thinking.

This can be seen in at least two ways,

One, aborting the process to 'create a person,

Two, killing a 'person,

I ask, what is your meaning there?

@NoOneInParticular

Virtue, Consequentialism. . .

Even if I don't eat that piece of meat, someone else will,

If attempting to push an object with a group of people, know I if enough people are willing to push the log?

Is there meaning in pushing, even if I know the attempt will fail,

If I 'don't know but suspect,

If I believe my own efforts will in a later attempt lead to a successful push. . .

A person must already 'exist, in order for them to be aborted, (From some people's viewpoints)

If you believe that bringing someone into existence is to cause pain to someone, don't have sex.

It seems wise for a nation to encourage many factions inside it's colonies,

People of different values and properties,

Have a greater time uniting in revolution.

I'd think.

Boredom,

Not having voiced or fleshed my opinions strongly before in life,

Happening upon DDO polls and Opinions.

I'm unsure, I don't interact with people in person that much,

Family, I don't argue too much with, and what we do, everyone holds pretty strong to their views,

Work, I'm just pleasant polite, usually too busy to work to debate there.

Probably I'm not too decent at IRL debate,

'Might be this site and online debate has helped me a bit,

But IRL debating would be needed to have, experienced, to be good at IRL, probably.

Congratulations, that 'is a lot of debates.