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Was Trump the 'cause, or the symptom of diverging politics and fervor of 'both sides?
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@janesix
Eh, doesn't sound 'bad, but I think I like that song 'better when it's by a 'single singer.
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@badger
Never heard of it.
Just watched the final scene.
. . .
Wow, that 'was brutal and violent, can really feel the Tarantino influence.
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@Reece101
American Pledge of Allegiance in school, waters down the concept of true loyalty.
Besides, why do any Americans 'need to pledge any allegiance to the country they're 'born into.
Oaths to integrity of one's profession, means enough when one 'enters that profession, as a soldier, doctor, lawyer, politician, so on.
Let more private religious schools be formed, if parents want their kids focused on religion in their upbringing.
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@zedvictor4
As I see it, 'Tribalism is just common to human condition/game theory.
To quote another,
"Naturally wanting to live near and interact with people who share your beliefs and traditions. " - LOGICZOMBIE
Tribes often don't like being replaced, Just a psychological value response. In Group vs Out Group. People connect themselves to their family, Community, And whatever aspects they identify as 'being the connected strands. History, Culture, Looks, Mannerisms, Blood, Hereditary.
Tribes not need 'always 'be skin, Often enough in history that they 'aren't, But skin 'is one of the options people have used to identify their groups currently and before.
To quote another person,
"Most people want to protect themselves and their family and make themselves and their family "comfortable" more than anything else. Most people naturally have more empathy for people who look similar to themselves (this is scientifically verified). This naturally leads to TRIBALISM (which is not necessarily "pure evil"). We want to be "safe" and we want to be surrounded by people who look like and think like and believe like we do because that makes us feel safe. " - LOGICZOMBIE
People 'value 'their 'People.
Course, Appearance is degrees, Saxons, Brits, Romans, Irish, French, Franks, Germans, Found each other different enough to dehumanize and discriminate against, I'm sure. Ancient history.
'But, When the Ottoman Empire and faith threatened the West, They found some common ground.
One can look to science fiction or fantasy for parallel.
More rare is Human Human racism, When their are Orcs or Klingon to discriminate against.
Still, genetics are often a way of telling when a group of people have kept put together.
And 'having kept put together, one might assume they share more similar values and ethos, than those 'not kept put with them.
Not only are people of different genetics not one's own 'blood people, they're often not even one's own 'culture people.
Animals are territorial.
Bits and heaps of tribalism can help a person survive in violent, turbulent times.
Yet paradoxically often 'cause violent, turbulent times.
Xenophobic conjecture aside,
I like myself 'more than the various tribes I might be said to belong.
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@Vader
Shrek is compared to onions because they have layers - SupaDudz
You know not everybody like onions.
@Topic
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@shadow_712
America 'does accept immigrants.
If they're going to school on some exchange program, seems likely they'd obtain citizenship legally.
If they're here legally and have to pass whatever test we use, likely they might know many parts of American Government and History 'better than me.
If the immigrants are young people with a high level of education and performance, all the better, I'd think many Americans would think.
I'm just not for 'massive immigration all at once to America, or illegal immigration, or nonintegrating immigration (Doesn't mean people can't have their own cultural identity and history).
There's a family tree on my mothers side, including ancestors from other countries than America.
Though, I 'did and 'do like Tom Mccall's "Visit but don't stay." slogan for Oregon.
. . .
Well, maybe I have mixed opinions on subject of immigration.
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@Benjamin
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@Unpopular
I can understand people seeing him as a lesser of evils, my brother didn't vote for Biden 'purely due to his stance on guns. (He voted third party)
But I have more difficulty understanding people not nudging Trump 'away from the party when they get the chance.
Even if there's some fallout from diehard Trump supporters, better in the long term.
I 'really didn't care about his fine people on both sides comment, (Because of technicality)
Or that he wanted a wall and border control.
I 'greatly dislike the Democratic gist one feels at times of let everyone in,
The problem wasn't that we were holding people at the border, but our incompetence of method and humanity.
I didn't mind Trumps talk with North Korea 'much. That we have to deal with leaders we find reprehensible is politics.
I mind/ed more 'how he achieves his goals, and his lack of tact or respect with others.
His causing of division, with little benefit received 'by it for the Republican party or American people.
All the constant lies.
Augh, ranting.
Also his lack of grace in accepting defeat.
Also his lack of initiative in the Capital Riot.
I can understand being competitive, having a winner mentality, but 'eventually it just sours into damaging the group.
A leader worth admiring, would have strode into the crowd of people, and at least 'tried to convince them to follow the law.
Rather than give a short speech thanking them and telling them it's time to go home, after damage had occurred.
I'm not with the people who insisted on impeaching him for being a so called Russian mole,
Or insisting he attempted a coup,
What with BLM.
Bah, politicians, caring more about violence when it hits close to where 'they live, oh but never mind the small business owner.
Not that Trumps response to BLM was appropriate.
BAH, rambling.
Been unpleasant in America since stupid Iraq invasion,
Still, even before that, been strife.
I suppose it was only around Iraq I started being aware of politics.
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@Nyxified
True,
My post was more about my own and cultures view of attractiveness, more than the health aspect of it.
Though weight can be indicative of an unhealthy lifestyle.
If there's a thin person who sits around all day, and a heavy person who exercises a fair amount.
I'd think the heavy person healthier.
I don't have an opinion on what the 'healthies weight would be, unless I read more in life.
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@MarkWebberFan
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@Reece101
Just let your mind wander, when you read them, let your mind expand and make connections to concepts, actions, and things 'similar to the thought stated.
Even a thought not so thought provoking, can have a thought provoking effect, on a mind out for a stroll.
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@Polyglot
'Sounds that way, yeah.
So long as you aren't making classes 5 minutes long and ending them 55 minutes early, seems ideal to have some flexibility time, yet still be able to impart the full lesson.
(Edit)
Though I suppose if someone is paying by the hour, they may want to feel they are getting a full hours worth of instruction, maybe they feel five minutes a day over times adds up.
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@Unpopular
unless the Republican party continues to be blinded by Trumpism.
Maybe I hadn't been paying attention to politics closely, maybe it shouldn't have surprised me.
But I was surprised when he was elected, surprised when they kept supporting him so closely,
Surprised he still has so much support now.
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@fauxlaw
Depends on the level of indoctrination and current environment, maybe.
Depends on individuals ability, which admittedly is often sharpened with age,
But even adults can be convinced/coerced into patterns.
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Milton's Paradise Lost, Dante's Inferno, no matter their artistic merit, ought not have been written.
If one valued Christianity, as they only debase Christian understanding of their faith.
Pitchforks, and fire, Bah!
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@ILikePie5
Only if you 'really try to think of something accomplishable before bed.
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@janesix
Never tried it myself.
I just see the cutesy Yoda in trailers, get annoyed, assume all the other elements probably aren't what I'm looking for in a show either.
Glad you enjoyed it though.
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@Tejretics
Export when we make profit. (Need not be money, social credit/influence is a profit as well)
Import when we make profit. (Need not be money, social credit/influence is a profit as well)
Expand our borders and influence.
Don't enter unnecessary war.
Encourage policies and organizations which make individuals and communities more secure and able to help themselves without relying on Big Government.
Encourage policies and organizations which improves environment and living conditions, both green and social.
Encourage policies which lift the lower class, but don't focus on policies which tear down the higher class.
Be sure to act or at least be 'viewed as being moral/ethical. Though truth is better than façade. Facades are more easily torn down. There is value both inside country and and outside country, when people believe you to be good. Effects actions of citizens and foreign powers towards you.
Vague list of mine though, on 'exactly how.
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@zedvictor4
@Sum1hugme
I don't know.
Placement of military assets within the Ukraine.
Draw a clear line.
Strengthen Ukraine military and defenses, then America leaves.
Wouldn't guarantee it, as America might be outmaneuvered politically or in military movement.
Also should war occur, America might lose, might decide not worth effort even if tie or win.
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@Reece101
Don't turn your back to the lions.
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@DebateArt.com
I'm not really for or against it myself, but,
History looks to have the smallest number of posts on DDO.
If people 'really wanted to discuss history on this site,
Why wouldn't the technology of cavalry be posted in the Technology section,
Economic methods tried in the past be posted in Economics,
Different interactions between nations be placed in society,
Mythology in Religion,
Past political systems in Politics,
Ancient art be placed in Artistic Expressions.
Famous generals and soldiers under People,
Battles in Miscellaneous.
If someone wants or wanted to post about history, no reason they can't in the sections that already exist.
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@Greyparrot
@ILikePie5
@oromagi
Didn't a number of Republican officials responsible for their state election results 'already check for fraud?
Found none, and Trump either said they should double check and maybe 'implied they should spin the truth?
But the officials refused to do that, and stated there was no fraud, and ended up being censured by their own party, for telling the truth?
And this ninja company people are talking about aren't following proper procedures?
Is what I've heard anyway, but I also haven't been paying close attention.
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@zedvictor4
Is mine a poem? I didn't write it, in that intent.
I'm a bit embarrassed to say I only glanced at yours, judged it to be in your usual style, abstruse/cryptic I'd call it, when it usually reaches my mind.
And judging it a bit off kilter to my mind, I didn't look into it, until your post #24
The meaning of yours I have to say escapes me a bit,
It's difficult online in general to see inflection, so it's a bit difficult for me to see if you are gender neutral or claiming to be for the poem, whether you take offense or mean it in jest.
I can appreciate telling people to live their lives, eat their pies,
Myself, I think it's better to live in moderation and a bit of exercise,
Though I'm not one to rag people, on it.
Third and Forth waves of feminism, I see the reference, but I'm not familiar enough with the movement to know anything of it.
by use of Google, I see Stevie Smith was a writer,
I looked up Not Waving but Drowning by Stevie Smith, interesting poem.
I didn't see anything that suggested Stevie Smith was transgender, but maybe I haven't read enough.
So the,
Stevie Smith
Stevie?
How's that for foresight.
Lines escape me.
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“Dunbar loved shooting skeet because he hated every minute of it and the time passed so slowly. He had figured out that a single hour on the skeet-shooting range with people like Havermeyer and Appleby could be worth as much as eleven-times-seventeen years.
“I think you’re crazy,” was the way Clevinger had responded to Dunbar’s discovery.
“Who wants to know?” Dunbar answered.
“I mean it,” Clevinger insisted.
“Who cares?” Dunbar answered.
“I really do. I’ll even go as far as to concede that life seems longer i—“
“—is longer i—“
“—is longer—IS longer? All right, is longer if it’s filled with periods of boredom and discomfort, b—“
“Guess how fast?” Dunbar said suddenly.
“Huh?”
“They go,” Dunbar explained.
“Who?”
“Years.”
“Years?”
“Years,” said Dunbar. “Years, years, years.”
“Do you know how long a year takes when it’s going away?” Dunbar asked Clevinger. “This long.” He snapped his fingers. “A second ago you were stepping into college with your lungs full of fresh air. Today you’re an old man.”
“Old?” asked Clevinger with surprise. “What are you talking about?”
“Old.”
“I’m not old.”
“You’re inches away from death every time you go on a mission. How much older can you be at your age? A half minute before that you were stepping into high school, and an unhooked brassiere was as close as you ever hoped to get to Paradise. Only a fifth of a second before that you were a small kid with a ten-week summer vacation that lasted a hundred thousand years and still ended too soon. Zip! They go rocketing by so fast. How the hell else are you ever going to slow time down?” Dunbar was almost angry when he finished.
“Well, maybe it is true,” Clevinger conceded unwillingly in a subdued tone. Maybe a long life does have to be filled with many unpleasant conditions if it’s to seem long. But in that event, who wants one?”
“I do,” Dunbar told him.
“Why?” Clevinger asked.
“What else is there?”
― Catch 22 by Joseph Heller
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@Wylted
Eh, I'd disagree that the link 'proved or 'disproved what I said,
Though it did 'comment on our discussion some.
It's just a video that came to my mind during the conversation.
People having a habit of taking after habits of those they interact with on a regular basis, is just human nature, 'I think.
Undeniably so to my point of view, though it appears you have a different take.
'Lot of people in the military have ended up smoking, drinking, cussing, getting tattoos,
'Because they saw others in their 'group doing it.
Humans want to fit in, be like everyone else.
Peer pressure, can be good, can be bad.
But it's 'there.
. . .
Someone litters next to a sidewalk, another person figures it's already dirty, doesn't matter to litter it some more, and the trash heap just grows.
Many situations in life, say a person needs help, often 'No One will do anything, until 'Someone else 'does something, then it's a flurry of activity, with people coming forward to help.
Leaders are better liked in life I'd say, when they lead by positive example.
Eh, some of my coworkers in life have been awesome people, 'worthy of emulation in some aspects of their life.
In their concern for others, work ethic, views on handling life.
If 'I do something that inspires another, I don't mind that, means I'm doing well in life I figure, maybe helps them out as well.
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@TheUnderdog
I'd rather just encourage people into traditional marriage and morals,
Though not 'force them into it.
Just encourage them to form a deep partnership with another, to be kind, aware.
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@Wylted
The difference between influence and control, can be negligible at times, I'd say.
I'm a part of the environment of others.
If a drunkard father who beats his children, statistics show this to have an effect on the kids choices.
I'd an elder brother who smokes, it points the younger siblings in the direction of an idea of tobacco being okay.
If a coworker does the bare minimum and ignores regulation, it influences their coworkers to laze and cut corners as well.
. . .
A person does not need to be Jesus for their example to matter.
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@Wylted
Interesting way to look at it, an online death.
I'd disagree that you can't control how you're remembered.
As in our personal lives, we have a 'measure of control, I'd argue, though circumstance in winds can blow, overcoming our intents.
I think it's nice when our internal compasses match outward moral compasses, but. . .
"Is one who simply sides with tenacious opinions a gentleman? Or is he merely putting on a dignified appearance?" - Mencius
I 'do think there is value in appearances, more than I'd like really, but that's the nature of reality, what with humans being social interacting animals,
What with humans having to each individually and by groups perceive others.
Setting an example for community or family, 'requires that they realize my actions.
"Virtue is its own reward." -Cicero
Is a fine saying, especially for the individual, be he by himself or in a group.
But appearances 'can have an effect on others.
'Sounds,
Unfortunate about your childhood, though it sounds selfless of you, speaks of love for your siblings.
Unfortunate your wife lied, that you lied, and her family was deceived to see you as the bad guy.
"I don't value anyone's opinion who is not privy to is what actually happened." - Wylted
And yet you give an account of what happened 'to others?
I'd agree that times can come, where it's better to just cut losses, say to others think what you want, I've expended enough time defending myself.
Still, different people find value, differently.
'Does sound good to do good, even if one isn't perceived as good.
Though I see others knowing 'truth, as a type of good as well, thus 'offering what one sees as truth of a situation, seems good to me.
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@Vader
I 'still feel bad I don't have abs.
Though I'm not despairing about it. (Not saying you are/were)
I agree, man or woman, people should be a bit more accepting of their own bodies,
Especially in relation to 'depictions of the ideal body.
In statues, film, comic books, models.
Be better to 'achieve such an ideal, certainly it's not good to be unhealthy.
Though 'looking healthy isn't always the same as 'being healthy.
And sure, I'm not one to harp about making oneself look perfect.
I'm not a fan of makeup or hair dye, or foppish clothing.
But it's true that one's appearance matters in society often.
How one presents themself.
Clean nails, no bedhead, zipper zipped.
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@zedvictor4
@MisterChris
I'm of a similar mind, to what you're both saying.
Posts #119, #120.
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@bmdrocks21
@TheUnderdog
Decent points both.
Though the question of 'who gets to vote bothers me a bit, 'even for people I don't think are qualified to vote.
It's sad to be stuck in the same boat, that our freedoms are effected by others.
Their intelligence, or lack of.
Their good will, or malice.
Intrusion at times.
Numbers.
Just bothering, to be effected by others at times.
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@zedvictor4
I think he's usually going for that, it can be a 'bit airy and high pitched at times, though I like his voice overall.
Usually he's appealing or trying to convince people, rather than berate them, I'd say.
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@MisterChris
There's a lot of words being shoved into Jordon Peterson's mouth in this thread. - MisterChris
Anything in particular?
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@Vader
Achievement unlocked, finish High School.
Congratulations.
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@Benjamin
I don't believe in miracles myself, or God.
Things just happen in my eyes, even the unlikely.
But I do believe that faith and prayer can have great staying power, be a strength and a comfort.
I think that people can be 'greatly enriched by a life of faith, that they can believe and practice with no loss of intellectual honesty or savvy.
Georges Lemaître, who proposed the Big Bag, was a Belgian Catholic priest, mathematician, astronomer, and professor of physics at the Catholic University of Louvain.
Gregor Mendel, often recognized as the founder of the modern science of genetics, was a meteorologist, mathematician, biologist, Augustinian friar and abbot of St. Thomas' Abbey in Brno, Margraviate of Moravia
Galileo Galilei, famous fellow, was religious.
If a person immerses themself in religion of atheism, I think they can find rhyme and reason in either one.
I think there's wisdom, value, humanity in the Bible and religion, and many of the communities 'of religion.
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@MarkWebberFan
Well, my opinion per my statement, is that Trump's words can be rephrased in a manner more polite, appreciable by voters.
I feel doubt myself of his ability then or now, to establish any meaningful change.
I'm doubtful of Trump's sincerity to anyone but himself.
Though it's 'possible, he's more capable than I rate him, 'possible he's more selfless than I think.
The values and manners that Republicans 'ought exhibit, act, achieve is there.
Both in themselves and the population,
But the Republican's haven't been savvy about it in a way I appreciate.
Not that I agree with all their platform.
Certainly I haven't voted for Trump last two elections.
American politics has been annoying since I've been aware of it.
Bill Clinton, I was too young to have an opinion.
George W. Bush, we got into that blasted war, and that blasted Patriot Act, TSA.
Barack Obama, that attempt at mandatory health care, drone strikes may have been a damned if you do damned if don't, 'was an excellent speaker who seemed to try to reach across the aisle.
Trump. . . . Trump. . . If found a disaster, I didn't particularly 'agree with the border wall, though I 'did and 'do agree our borders need be secure. The wall seemed a heavy handed divisive way of promoting it. Both 'in America and out. Border wall 'could have been constructed in a non-divisive, But Trump and the Democrats were both 'all about that division.
The separation policy, ICE, holding centers, were all mishandled. But the issue in my eyes 'Isn't that we don't 'need them. But that we need to secure our borders and law in a humane fashion.
I would have taken much more kindly to Democrats the last terms, if they hadn't been constantly accusing Trump of being a Russian mole,
Disputing the election constantly,
Digging up more dirt, when enough was already there.
Nearly claiming we don't need a border, Bah look at Biden's border failure.
Going with those in favor of defunding the police, only to be backpedaling about it now.
Jumping on the Capital Hill Riot, like it was 911, but 'only cared about law and order when it reached 'their property, 'not when disorder was effecting the common Americans during BLM and such.
Though mind you, I think people have a right to protest, I just think the authorities 'AND the protests could have done better by each other.
Sorry for the rant.
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@badger
I've yet to read the Idiot, but Crime and Punishment has always induced me to think 'why 'not discard others and past moral habits, in exchange for better living and purpose in life.
Even if they are exchanged for villainous means.
. .
Still, I'm far to lazy, incapable of plans, and uninclined for such a path, that I doubt it'll ever become an issue for me. Still, book influenced my opinions on Nihilism and Existentialism.
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@ebuc
My first brother, a libertarian liked the comparison.
Says it's a fine comparison, as the gun is able to have so many different types of items attached to it for different functions.
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@Reece101
I don't 'know the percentages of all the countries in the world,
But let's talk Americans, so I'm not just bashing other countries.
Maybe other countries might be concerned if Americans were crossing their borders will nilly,
What with some Americans disliking getting vaccinations, or our number of people who've served prison time.
I don't see an issue with wanting a strong border, with checks on who's becoming a citizen, or visiting.
Now let's talk other countries,
It's 'better to not be a blatant communist, as one might assume a great number of Chinese are.
What's wrong with just checking if people understand our country, are coming to assimilate, rather than propagate?
I'll admit, I would 'never want Trump as a speaker for my cause.
Not that I really 'have a cause,
But I do have issues I support and oppose.
As a final note, wouldn't it be a bit of insanity for Israel and it's neighbors 'not to pay attention to their borders?
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@Reece101
Illegal, undocumented, unvetted, immigrants are a mixed bag.
The populations of some countries, are better than others.
Are these two statements incorrect?
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@oromagi
Nice one.
I always liked the story, Reason, in I, Robot.
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@Sum1hugme
My ethics?
Wide question, here's one.
I think it's generally bad form, to be rude to another person.
I think such, because I was taught such, because it's my habit, because I possess empathy, because I find it unpleasant on myself, or to see in others, additionally rude behavior is often bad game theory, makes people hate you, not help you, be rude to you.
I suppose even with or without 'with empathy, people can take enjoyment in others pain, not care how others mind them, or view it as an advantageous game theory to belittle and bully others.
I don't always succeed in not being rude, but I see politeness as something worthwhile.
Though maybe if I was rich or powerful, I'd no longer see it's worth,
I 'd like to 'think I'd keep to politeness though.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Fair enough, though I disagree.
And respond to the Jefferson point, with all the people who consider Jesus the son of God, Yet consider themselves Christians.
Systems 'can get a bit odd though, Religious 'or Political,
As different interpretations and practices grow.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Isn't it enough to believe he was a/the son of God?
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@janesix
"Well it depends what you mean by ___." - Jordan Peterson
Which honestly seems fair to me,
'Large number of debates and conversations,
On this site, on DDO,
Often become arguments on definitions.
A straight yes or no answer, can mischaracterize owns opinion.
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@Timid8967
Personally, I don't mind discussing the topic.
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