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@Greyparrot
@IlDiavolo
I think all three individuals are high ranking members of their respective countries.
I do not think that Zelensky was willing to kiss Trumps ass,
No matter the amount of Vance insisting that Zelenskyy should verbalize such during the meeting.
I do not think two on one interrupting, insulting, and disrespecting, is tough.
I'm not sure it makes 'sense for Ukraine to trade it's minerals to America for a temporary ceasefire with Russia.
But I'm also not sure it makes sense for America to put boots on the ground in Ukraine to back them up.
I'm not against American aid of supplies and funds,
Some supplies we are looking to upgrade from, others we want to observe being tested in war.
Some funds we might expect to get back.
Having an ally we can use to observe what is effective an ineffective in war is valuable.
Not letting war mongering nations other than ourselves expand, is valuable.
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@Greyparrot
What I decided, is that I feel terribly embarrassed for America, by that meeting.
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@IlDiavolo
I'm unsure, I've not researched the history of corruption by party in America.
I don't think corruption is 'inherently in the charters of either.
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@Owen_T
Comedy aside,
I think it 'does bring up a valid consideration, with the dissenting judge viewing life imprisonment as way more brutal.
Some people would prefer death to certain types of imprisonment.
Though I suppose people might claim they can kill themselves, not so easy I imagine.
Prisoners means are limited, and they are stopped by guards I think.
Other view killing or suicide as moral wrongs.
. . . Or might fear the system intentionally driving individuals to suicide through mistreatment.
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@IlDiavolo
I think our checks and balances are a decent system, but similar as WyIted says, I think corruption can come and go.
Take Grants presidency for instance,
Though I assume there are various ways to fight corruption, other than Dictatorship, barring the most extreme forms of corruption, and maybe even then.
. . .
I'd imagine that first world infrastructure, money and tech can dampen other forms of corruption, bodycams on police for instance.
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@Owen_T
Ah, another thought occurs to me, a video I've long enjoyed.
Supreme Court: Death Penalty Is 'Totally Badass'
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@Best.Korea
But blindly copying isn't good either.
Observing other countries actions is useful, in seeing what worked and 'why it worked, and whether such can successfully be applied to one's own circumstance.
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@Best.Korea
It is true I have not researched enough to have a strong opinion on Japan's rate of homicides classified as suicides
I don't think it is 'necessarily bad to copy actions of another country, in order to reproduce their results.
But what works for one country, won't 'necessarily work for another.
Whole wheat flour and plain white flour,
Cook differently.
Pots made of different metals and different forms,
Will take different amounts of heat and time to boil.
'Just copying one aspect of another country, may not produce the same result,
Unless 'further variables are changed.
Because of the differences in countries, copying just 'one aspect, can even have the 'opposite result of what one wanted.
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@Best.Korea
Well, it's possible the interrogation methods their police use, get people of uncertain guilt convicted earlier in life.
Isolating them or causing in them a fear of punishment before their crimes get bigger.
But I don't know if most murderers tend to have a criminal past or not.
There is also the problem of prison possibly 'making criminals out of people. But perhaps Japan's prisons are also different.
There is also the possibility Japan misclassifies X many homicides as suicides.
Some people argue less guns in Japan.
Some people argue different culture in Japan.
I also think it is possible countries have highs and lows over time, even if their laws remain the same, the 'people can change.
Or perhaps other variables are moving.
I'm not sure one can draw the conclusion that Japan has a less murders, because of their death penalty.
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@Mharman
And we shall call the new penny. . . The nickel.
Blue cheese 'does look awful moldy.
People sometimes quote sentences spoken in different languages,
But quote it in translation, rather than quoting it 'in the original language.
Doesn't seem quite proper.
Could one then quote a sentence in the same language, but alter the words to what the person 'meant?
Doesn't seem right.
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My earliest recorded opinion on the subject back in 2017 DDO,
"If we had a more cost effective and humane way to store people I might be against it, but such doesn't seem to be around right now."
I don't 'think I was big on revenge or the 'justice of killing.
But I disliked the forcing of a population to fund and act in a cause they did not believe in.
As well as disliking the monetary expenses with life imprisonment.
I've sometimes thought life imprisonment might better be carried out by the local community or charitable organizations. Local community being the actual people who 'knew the individual. Or charity being individuals who believe in redemption and treating people well.
. . .
Later on DDO I had a debate on the death penalty where I was Pro, but I found Cons arguments highly persuasive.
One of them an argument and sources that the chance of being caught is a vastly more effective deterrent than the death penalty.
Though that argument and source may have been situational, I've not thought on it in a while.
They also had a point on how 'expensive the death penalty is currently in America, though arguably that could be changed.
I also read some posts by SecularMerlin, that leaned me towards the view of people doing as their nature and nurture ordained.
Over time I've come to dislike revenge as an action even more.
. . .
Escape From New York (1981) was a fun movie.
And for me highlights a bit the problem of exiling all the human crazies to one place under their own laws.
And yet people don't like isolation as a punishment either.
. . . Eh, maybe if we could physically isolate some individuals, but give them means such as internet to connect with other humans, and enough physical space in a location to roam and do their own thing.
. . .
There are individuals we are 99.99% sure committed their crimes,
So I suppose my mind goes to such individuals, before thinking about the individuals we are uncertain about whether they did it or not.
. . . Sure the possibly innocent are something to worry about, but such isn't a problem for the 99.99% guilt individuals.
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What is the process in how America decides what to vote in the UN?
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@Best.Korea
Sounds a bit like Psychology and Knowledge,
Emotions evoked by various natures and nurtures.
Which 'can be pretty magical in a sense.
Also,
Arm mounted mechanical flame thrower.
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@Best.Korea
I'm not sure what you 'mean by magic?
I'd agree that using fire or blood in various ways, can lead to various outcomes, whether physical or psychological.
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Some men wear kilts, tunics, and togas.
And some cultures are pretty accepting even of men who wear dresses, even when the norm for said society is for women to wear dresses.
. . .
I suppose one doesn't 'have to go with the flow of society,
But many social norms are stuff I like doing,
Many times one realizes social acceptance can be easier by going with social customs.
. . . Not 'always good, I admit,
And there 'can be value in going against the grain. Depends though.
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@Best.Korea
Hm, glancing online some,
Martin Eden's 'strength seems to have led to isolation and self destruction?
An inability to interact with society in a healthy manner, can be bad for humans, social beings that we tend to be.
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@fauxlaw
Isn't the option to vote on a tie, good enough?
And the option for the debate instigator to choose if the type of vote system?
Though I 'do think the idea of, you both did terrible, and this should count as a loss in your statistics for both of you, to be funny.
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@Best.Korea
I've not read that one, onto the reading list it goes.
But as to your assertions,
I reply, what is strength and power?
I say, means, which see unto ends.
There can be power in compromise, in cooperation.
As ego brutes tear into one another with vicious lack of cooperation, the meek are able to pool their strength and inherit.
I think there can also be power in a lack of cooperation,
But either case is situational, and at chance times, beyond efforts.
I think even when one is bodily enslaved by another,
Might has not made right, only circumstance,
The world continues to reside in both,
Perception and judgements still made by both,
The possible future is not closed off, even in jail, not even in an iron lung,
A human 'lives, thinks, acts deliberate, wills.
Still, proactivity is often useful, carves paths, future cuts.
Ego can see a person hold to their purposes and endeavors, achieve where another might not.
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There's a book, Anathem by Neal Stephenson.
Lot of it about these secluded cloisters monks who pursue knowledge and logic.
I recall them singing songs about various proofs and concepts, though the book was not explicit.
Can't say I can recall very often hearing music based around Knowledge/History/Logic.
Lot of songs about historical persons and events I suppose, as Sabaton does, or historyteachers on YouTube.
Gale Sings 'The Elements' Bonus Scene | Better Call Saul.
Hm, probably a fair number of educational songs, probably even playlists for such exist.
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@Barney
While not everyone 'formally debates,
One 'does see people make arguments a 'lot.
On Reddit, YouTube, News, Real world politics.
That I think people could end up referencing an objective logic debate website.
Wikipedia, I think manages to walk the tightrope, though it has issues with being used as a source, it's not bad as initial information, leading to finding better sources as one learns more about a subject.
I think Rational Wiki fails from too much ideological bias, mocking, triteness, 'attempts to 'seem objective at times.
Also I find it too self congratulatory, snarky and sarcastic.
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@Best.Korea
Because being able to run away, run to an objective, lift with your legs, hike long distances, maintain your footing, can be useful skills.
I suppose pullups can be useful in some situations.
I imagine working out all of your body is best,
Maintain your bone mass in what bones you can in older age.
Maintain flexibility and mobility.
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I've heard we might be making less pennies soon.
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@zedvictor4
Some people argue that, yeah.
But I think much of the Bible speaks to observable facets of human nature and game theory.
I think that many of the values and goals espoused by the Bible, have been and are heartfelt true, by many of it's writers and followers.
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@zedvictor4
Well, people interpret the God of the Bible differently I suppose.
Some argue it had more to do with Cain's character and actions than his specific offering,
Though maybe such an interpretation would be more agreeable to all if Cain and Abel had offered the exact same type and quality of offerings.
Still, I note many places in the Bible where it is not animal sacrifice, but obedience, right actions, and mercy are desired.
Course, just my interpretation.
Though I don't suppose it's 'bad to honor God, if God is something one values and follows.
I'm doubtful of the value of animal sacrifice though.
And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
“What are all your sacrifices to me? ” asks the LORD. “I have had enough of burnt offerings and rams and the fat of well-fed cattle; I have no desire for the blood of bulls, lambs, or male goats.
But you would not have condemned my innocent disciples if you knew the meaning of this Scripture: ‘I want you to show mercy, not offer sacrifices.’
The Mighty One, God the LORD,
speaks and summons the earth
from where the sun rises to where it sets.
From Zion, perfect in beauty,
God shines forth.
Our God approaches and will not be silent!
Consuming fire precedes Him,
and a tempest rages around Him.
He summons the heavens above,
and the earth, that He may judge His people:
“Gather to Me My saints,
who made a covenant with Me by sacrifice.”
And the heavens proclaim His righteousness,
for God Himself is Judge.
speaks and summons the earth
from where the sun rises to where it sets.
From Zion, perfect in beauty,
God shines forth.
Our God approaches and will not be silent!
Consuming fire precedes Him,
and a tempest rages around Him.
He summons the heavens above,
and the earth, that He may judge His people:
“Gather to Me My saints,
who made a covenant with Me by sacrifice.”
And the heavens proclaim His righteousness,
for God Himself is Judge.
“Hear, O My people, and I will speak,
O Israel, and I will testify against you:
I am God, your God.
I do not rebuke you for your sacrifices,
and your burnt offerings are ever before Me.
I have no need for a bull from your stall
or goats from your pens,
for every beast of the forest is Mine—
the cattle on a thousand hills.
I know every bird in the mountains,
and the creatures of the field are Mine.
If I were hungry, I would not tell you,
for the world is Mine, and the fullness thereof.
Do I eat the flesh of bulls,
or drink the blood of goats?
Sacrifice a thank offering to God,
and fulfill your vows to the Most High.
Call upon Me in the day of trouble;
I will deliver you, and you will honor Me.”
To the wicked, however, God says,
“What right have you to recite My statutes
and to bear My covenant on your lips?
For you hate My instruction
and cast My words behind you.
When you see a thief, you befriend him,
and throw in your lot with adulterers.
You unleash your mouth for evil
and harness your tongue to deceit.
You sit and malign your brother;
you slander your own mother’s son.
You have done these things, and I kept silent;
you thought I was just like you.
But now I rebuke you
and accuse you to your face.
Now consider this, you who forget God,
lest I tear you to pieces,
with no one to rescue you:
He who sacrifices a thank offering honors Me,
and to him who rightly orders his way,
I will show the salvation of God.”
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I wonder if one could make money selling 'shielded clothing.
Some people like to wear tinfoil hats,
And there's always people worried about this or other, the this in this case being all the electronics effects on human bodies.
But people also often like looking normal,
Thus 'normal disguised looking shielded clothing.
People also like 'seeming to be or have something superior.
Hm.
One Google later, nope, said product already commonly exists. . . Darn.
. . .
I wonder if shielding could prove harmful at all,
Like a bullet ricocheting inside a metal helmet or suit of armor.
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@zedvictor4
I'd agree humans don't always give other humans 'much of a choice.
That humans are also animals, worries me that animals other than human, can be human, at times.
It's not the preservation of environment and nature I would seek, but the destruction of unchosen pain, unchosen servitude.
Fair point on the natural order, but people develop and seek their preferences.
Subjectively, I think people will seek their value scenarios, all that one 'can do, I think.
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@zedvictor4
Some situations might be just as brutal, yeah.
But I don't particularly like meeting my meat, I dislike the personalization of it.
Some situations for humans free, are worse than humans enslaved, but I 'still don't much care for slavery myself.
Videos and knowledge of certain living situations for the livestock animals the humans keep,
Certain videos and knowledge of methods of slaughter, discomfort me.
. . .
Certain breeds of dogs and other pets, kind of messed up, the deformities caused by how humans breed them,
Just because a pampered life is better, doesn't mean we 'ought allow other humans to breed a painful existence into animals.
. . .
Personally I lean towards Efilism at times,
Destruction of life and existence.
If various animals have short lifespans of inferior quality, why should we encourage or allow them to breed?
They have not human rationality or sentience, understanding of existence, (I assume)
I lean towards the extinction of all life but humans.
Humans I don't check off the list out of self preservation, unlikelihood, and choice I suppose.
Practically speaking, we give other humans a choice that we do not give animals.
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On YouTube, I once heard someone argue,
"If you aren't vegan, you're an animal abuser."
I suppose, but one can still argue there exists a scale of abuse.
Or the separation between actions and ends.
However it gets done,
Killing 'is seen as a brutal action usually, I think.
But I don't agree that all 'methods of killing are 'equally brutal.
I view 'war to be brutal (Usually),
Yet, I view wars 'methods, as varying in brutality.
I think better of armies that do not torture, than armies that do,
Better of armies that attempt to avoid civilian casualties, than ones that aim for civilians.
One might mock 'supposed good armies, give many examples of when they have tortured or killed civilians,
But there is 'something in having 'less war crimes.
Most everyone is mean at some point in life, doesn't mean that a person who is mean once a week, is as bad as someone mean every day.
The 'effort to less harm is still commendable. I argue.
Of the separation between actions and ends,
A person may vote against slavery, yet continue to use cotton.
Have they then whipped a slave?
You 'do say abuse, and don't say that people 'literally slaughter animals themselves.
. . . I suppose people 'contribute towards an end result, but I'm not sure I'd call them animal abusers.
Drummer Hoff Fired it off.
Hm, but then how much influence must a person have before they are considered 'culpable?
Charles Manson might say he's never killed anyone,
Trump claims no responsibility for the Jan event,
An individual in a mob might claim they hit a person third, but not the 20th killing time,
Or that they were only part of the mob, not one of the individuals who lynched a man.
Doesn't 'sound good, I admit.
Unless one was at one of those restaurants where they select a live lobster or chicken, for the cook to cook.
They are not specifically 'telling someone to kill an animal. But their actions 'do support the industry. Such as when one buys fenced goods, drugs, sweat shop phones, or Papa Johns Pizza.
I don't think the difference is paper thin myself.
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Personally, I don't see a coup, and think people are overreacting by calling it a coup.
Call it overreach 'maybe.
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Hm, as I try to Google information about this recent 'coup everyone is talking about,
I grow ever more paranoid about bots and information influencers.
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@n8nrgim
What exactly has Trump done that is a coup?
I'm only 'now realizing you're talking about some budget thing or other that he is doing,
And Googling, I see other people talking about it.
Reading some more, people are mentioning Musk?
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@Math_Enthusiast
Fair point that in ordinary life 'most people won't use advanced math.
One 'could argue it's a 'long aptitude test of sorts, that people with a greater ability in math are able to identify and slightly grow said ability in themselves.
'Some jobs involve a fair degree of math,
Medical for example, had math for dose amounts and times.
Pretty simple, but such is what I meant by 'basic utility.
Lot of people still do their own taxes, math there.
. . .
Still, aptitude test,
If I hadn't learned math is far from my best subject, I might have tried becoming a nuke tech.
. . .
While I think it is 'better for people to be able to be more freeform and understand 'why they use various formulas,
I'm not sure it's 'necessary for people using advanced formula in their jobs,
They just need to use the formulas relevant to their jobs and show their work in a standard method that everyone uses and can check their work.
To me,
Nonstandard methods seem more useful in people advancing math 'itself.
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@zedvictor4
I looked online after my post,
Actually quite a few wooden mice and keyboards that one can buy online.
"in a study, patients with carotid artery plaque in which MPs and nanoplastics (NPs) were detected had a higher risk of a composite of myocardial infarction, stroke, or death from any cause in 34 months. These potential threats can be life-threatening compared to the chronic diseases caused by MPs"
I'm a human boy, in a human world,
So much plastic, not fantastic,
It is in my brain, might give me quite the strain,
A blood disruption, feel my vessels ruption.
More seriously,
I think the health study of microplastics is still in early phases, but I still think it might be a concern for humans.
Humanities use of lead in various products was surely a stepping stone in advancement,
'Still not something we want to make cups or water pipes out of anymore.
. . .
Well, even if nothing matters, practically speaking, I'm not going to 'feel like nothing matters.
In this case I cared because I like thinking about ways to make money,
And figured some people might worry about plastic contamination or the environment, and thus might buy said products.
I suppose we have 3D printers now, but 'usually those still use plastic I think.
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I wonder if one could make money selling 'wooden products of various devices that people use.
Because of the microplastics everywhere worry.
Such as 'wooden mice or wooden keyboards for computers, Though some products might still need 'some plastic in them.
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@n8nrgim
I think lawless coups 'can be morally and functionally justifiable.
Though it can depend on one's values.
My master, right or wrong is a troupe one see's in human history.
Related to people's ideas of values, oaths and honor.
Whether to individuals, current holders of power, law.
. . .
What worries me about unlawful revolutions is how they can make situations worse,
Iran as an example.
(From some points of view)
Or make unlawful revolution 'acceptable to others.
Then one 'keeps seeing 'unlawful revolutions.
. . .
Trump is limited by term limits and by his age.
He has not absolute power of a dictator.
. . .
Personally, I don't think the American Revolution was justified.
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"President Trump floated two stunning ideas about Gaza on Tuesday. The first is he said the U.S. would take over the territory, which has been devastated by the recent war.
And, he said the entire population of Gaza would be relocated to other countries. Trump offered no specifics for his plans sending Palestinians and Israelis scrambling to understand what he means."
If he wanted something from such, I imagine it would be the land property, not people as cheap labor.
If he was being altruistic about it, then he might think that everyone would be better off with the people in Gaza living somewhere else.
From what I've heard here and there, doesn't sound to me as though Hamas has 'changed it's ideology of kill all the Jews from the river to the sea.
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@IlDiavolo
If there is only a 1% chance, then no, I don't expect us to be hit by 'this asteroid.
Even if it were 99%, 'maybe science could deflect it.
I 'do think that countries should have doomsday shelters though, whatever the doom be, asteroid, nukes, virus.
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@Barney
It's funny,
And kind of interesting,
A site full of the debate particulars of commonly seen debates.
Has educational aspect of letting people see components of a debate.
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@FLRW
When I look at America,
I see 'much dissenting, questioning and challenging between groups.
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I haven't been paying close attention, has Trump given a detailed actionable plan?
Or is he just vaguely saying he will?
. . .
I suppose government jobs 'can get bloated,
Bureaucracy and such.
How To Run A Hospital | Yes Minister | BBC Comedy Greats
Or when new technologies come about, one would 'think such would allow government to cut staff.
But I imagine when new technology comes about, government can think "Oh good, now we can move those resources somewhere else."
Easier to keep growing government and spending, redirecting it, in Bureaucrats minds, I'd 'imagine.
. . .
AI is a new tech, but I'm not sure how close it is to replacing jobs,
Though maybe it already has,
But what I mean is 'successfully replacing them,
Sure some people have been replaced, but AI still seems clunky to me.
Though, sure are a 'lot of AI Call Centers, unhelpful sometimes though.
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@fauxlaw
"around then sun 75 times,"
I like that phrasing.
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Homemade cheddar crackers,
Flour, cheddar cheese, water, salt, bit of olive oil,
mixed until as dry as playdough,
400 degrees oven, 5 minutes, flip, 6 minutes.
Pretty good actually, especially when one thinks about how much a half empty box of crackers at the store will cost.
. . .
Ah, also ate an apple and some carrots.
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I'm not sure that the dry water is really 'dry, so much as made small and separated by coatings so it cannot wet.
Water in a water balloon is still wet, even if the rubber balloon is not on the outside.
But I don't really know science.
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@zedvictor4
I find my mind 'works better if I read regularly,
Though I enjoy the computer, it's too easy to turn my mind off on it.
But I'd agree it can also be relaxing or informative.
Some fiction gets me to think, or is relaxing reading,
But I suppose one can still get that with nonfiction,
Still,
"During one of those long hours, his cousin Dennis Lincoln said to him, ‘Abe, them yarns is all lies.’ Lincoln looked up for a moment and replied, ‘Mighty darn good lies, Denny.’"
If I lived before the internet, I think I'd go to the movies more often,
And if I lived before movies, I think I'd listen to the radio more often.
. .
Seems a lot of planning ahead with those two though, have to read ahead of time to see what is worth tuning in to, since one is not free to pick and choose in the instant they are in. Other than changing the channel, it's still more coming 'across, than turning on 'whatever one wants.
I 'do like classical music sometimes, only classical CD I ever bought though was Mozart's Requiem.
Hiroshi Yoshimura, just looked up on Youtube, peaceful, relaxing.
What type of bicycle?
Big tires, thin tires?
Many speeds, few speeds?
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Well, I reread The Traitor's Hand by Sandy Mitchell.
Ha! New Years Resolution kept so far.
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@Skipper_Sr
I don't 'think so,
Couple Wikipedia, looks to me that Microsoft Word is about 10 years older.
"WordPad was introduced in Windows 95"
Microsoft Word "first released on October 25, 1983"
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What!?
My latest computer update removed Wordpad!
Well, I'm 'still not paying for office.
I'll just redownload Wordpad, and use Notepad in the far future if I 'have to.
What's with computer companies pushing useless junk apps and withholding basic vital features?
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@Reece101
We've declassified stuff before haven't we?
Though looking at the United States section, a lot of them were leaks.
If any of the information endangers currents systems or operatives, maybe it shouldn't be released, but the JFK assassination was a while ago.
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@Reece101
I can't really think why said documents 'can't be declassified.
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