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@3RU7AL
Does an infant dream of eating lobster ?
No, but their physiology is similar to that of an adult. I consider my perception somewhat Aristotelian and I believe these things (and ideas) take time.
...ARE (EITHER) CAUSED (OR) UNCAUSED
ok. I'm not sure how to react to this. I've read all of your related posts concerning this and I've nothing to add. I might if I self-study some philosophy but I don't have time for that right now.
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@janesix
...it really isn't a good feeling most of the time. It is a very strong type of anxiety, of potential loss.
I agree wholeheartedly. I think this is the universal definition of love. When I was bullied in highschool, I had a deep fear that I would lose those who decided (against peer pressure) to be with me. IMHO, there have never been any more vivid impression of fear in love than this. Just my experience.
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Any country that values freedom of speech. I don't care if it is contaminated with narratives that are monopolized by the elites (i.e. major news outlet), all I care is that it allows dissidents to express their own ideas. Ideally, I would not want to live in religious dustbins across the third world and I would not want to live in countries that regularly restrict freedom of speech. I'm speaking from experience.
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Without memories, the mind is incapable of thought.Without memories, the will does not exist.
I believe we have conflicting elements of autonomy. In free will, all of a person's actions fall within the range of possibilities allowed by her environment (i.e. living on earth). In addition, what she sees as other possible alternatives (i.e. flying without wings) among which she decides to dream of are reflections. These reflections do not need memories as a prerequisite. I find it incredibly unfulfilling when I know that questions of free will depend on preceding conditions. IMHO, the present is equally important.
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Imho, I don't understand why people have this vague identity of being a muslim. I think it's kind of pointless to have it. I don't understand how saying the arabic word of God can be a controversy either. She's wrong to have this vague muslim identity and the panel is wrong to have this trivial discussion.
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@fauxlaw
That 100-page wonder is the epitome of the brain tumor he proposes as cause of a serial killer’s attitude, and that, therefore, he is victim of his own killer propensity. Absurd hogwash......Sam Harris is a buffoon who never figured out he didn’t need to pee his pants as a toddler. He pees his brain on a constant, adult basis...
I think this specific post you made is interesting (I've never read Sam Harris). I think that the quoted parts above are hilarious.
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@Lemming
I've just learned that it's now possible to be an artist satirizing the absurdity of the determinism/free will debate.
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@3RU7AL
Do these hypothetical prisoners have any conscious and or subconscious memories of their lives before their confinement ?
Why do memories matter? If they're still capable of reflection, surely that is enough demonstration of a free and unconstrained will?
A blind and deaf woman could still reflect on her memories. Similarly, a person with malnourished beginnings could still reflect (however little) on the life he currently has.
Is it possible that these pre-existing memories are the features of the cave on which the echo is shaped ?
I read all of your posts in this thread to understand what this actually meant and I hope I'm not veering off-topic. I'm assuming that pre-existing memories are caused and that the cave in which these humans live limits the range of possible memories. For illustration purposes, I guess the limited range of possible memories makes it impossible for me to imagine a new shade of color (i.e. David Hume's missing shade of blue) beyond what I have experienced through perception. Again, this is just the limitation of my mind.
I believe the limitations do not constrict the possible existence of a free will. I believe you're still free to reflect on the features of the cave in spite of the fact that you'll be ignorant(for the rest of your life) of the facts outside of the cave.
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@Polyglot
Sometimes when teaching, the class would go perfectly and a natural end occurs. I think it would be ridiculous to force someone to teach past this mark.
Interesting. I suppose I should keep this in mind. I don't often know what my instructors are going through.
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@3RU7AL
The "reflections" are either "caused" or "uncaused".For example, an echo from a cave is not "free".The echo is a function of the shape of the cave.And the cave did not create itself.
Fair enough. Here's another hypothetical example: prisoners in solitary confinement. I think they're not physically "free" but their reflections are still the productions of their mind. I'd argue that they are "free" in the sense that they have free will.
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@3RU7AL
Although, you CAN know that each of your actions is necessarily (EITHER) caused (OR) uncaused.
I think free will exists because I am "free". I think habitual actions driven by habit or reflex are not "free". I'm assuming you're not talking about them and I'm assuming you're talking about actions that are performed with intent. Imho, let's assume that all actions are caused and that these causes are beyond my control. Let's assume that I retain my ability to reflect on my caused actions. My reflections are the results of my inner-self. They are free in the sense that they are capable of dreaming contrary results. So long as I continue to possess my ability to reflect, I can declare myself "free".
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@Polyglot
A philosophy professor of mine ends class 5 minutes pass his schedule. The TAs are responsible for time management, but they let him go because students in the class (myself included) thoroughly enjoy his teaching. You might be structuring the class in which time is overemphasized. For example, my intro professor loved to play podcasts and that angered me so much that I developed a habit of leaving the class earlier than usual. Students are really not that objective in the class. I won't assume that I understand what you're going through and I don't know all of the facts in your class so I can't offer specific solutions.
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@badger
You should read Paradise Lost for a sympathetic view of Satan. In fact, it wasn't his fault that Eve consumed the forbidden fruit, he merely gave her the idea to consume it.
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@RationalMadman
I think I'm writing something that veers off-topic but reading your post reminded me when Heseltine brought down Thatcher. When asked about why he loathed Thatcher so much, he said:
"She comes from a certain social background, one step up the ladder of economic success, with it, a lot of the characteristics that you associate with people who've just made it. A certain intolerance of those who haven't, a certain suspicion of those who are further up the ladder, a certain bigotry."
I find Heseltine's use of the word bigotry very apt.
"She comes from a certain social background, one step up the ladder of economic success, with it, a lot of the characteristics that you associate with people who've just made it. A certain intolerance of those who haven't, a certain suspicion of those who are further up the ladder, a certain bigotry."
I find Heseltine's use of the word bigotry very apt.
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@zedvictor4
Well, I guess they might not be "enlightened". I have my own conspiracy that we had discovered little green men years ago. I believe that humans saw them as too succulent. I think humans rarely control themselves around food. It's highly likely that some of us ate little green men without realizing they were extraterrestrial visitors. This kind of makes sense since aliens are nowhere to be found on earth; they probably avoid us because they don't want to be eaten by us. My opinion.
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I believe the closest system to our solar system is alpha centauri and I'm highly skeptical that alpha centauri could house sentient life-forms. It is excruciatingly difficult to travel in space and I believe that if aliens were to exist, they would have to remain isolated from the rest of the galaxies.
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Well, okay. I've nothing to offer but to state the often-missed advice that literature concerning religion is pretty broad and I would advise you to avoid reading original sources (i.e. Bible, Koran) since that seems to be your core disagreement. I think there's plenty of literature in both abrahamic and non-abrahamic religions and you should really explore them before re-living your disagreements. I found this lesson the hard way (after years of being heavily discouraged by religious peers).
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@Lemming
I read The Brothers Karamazov, as a freshman in High School, because I happened to find it in the public library.Was a huge, dense, slow reading book for me, as I recall it.I remember 'pieces of the plot, so it had an impact I suppose.Parts I remember involved religion, faith, family, crime, conflict, questioning, society.
Well, I read the first 50 pages and I think the book is overwhelming. I guess once I'm done reading the book i might remember it in the same way as you do. I guess reading it a second time might make it less overwhelming too. Anyway, thank you for your perspective.
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@Lemming
Illegal, undocumented, unvetted, immigrants are a mixed bag.The populations of some countries, are better than others.Are these two statements incorrect?
No. I'm not exactly sure what your opinion is but I don't think it's a good idea to look at migrants in a positive light. In my limited experience, assimilation is the only reliable metric to prove worthiness. I study overseas and while i didn't travel far, there was always this expectation of assimilation. I think if I didn't assimilate and instead whined about the host country's culture, I would regularly cheat and deceive the host country's citizens. Well, I'll add that I'll only deceive them if I can completely get away with it. For better or worse, assimilation avoids out-group discrimination and it prevents migrants from committing trivial crimes. While they may not be capable of committing heinous crimes like murder, they are still capable of committing trivial crimes.
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@Sum1hugme
@Undefeatable
Im not part of the professional audience/debaters that both of your list of debates usually cater to and I don't enjoy debates at all. However, on the chance that I do read some of them, I would often look for Undefeatable's debates. That said, as a regular reader of your debates, I have the same feedback(as Sum1Hugme) and would advise you (Undefeatable) to at least avoid talking past your opponent. Not an attack on your character, I'm just saying that debate rounds are better if they are connected rather than isolated.
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I think faith is part of a (Butler-ean) abstract relation of ideas. For example, self-love is not a belief, it is a faith in which you love yourself and others. It should surprise no one that such idea will never be grounded in empirical facts. There is no easy impression to faith just as there is no easy impression to virtue. I see faith as an impression that demands complete submission to an all powerful deity. A submission to the deity is a simple act of obedience in which you agree to the rules prescribed by the deity. These rules are part of the abstract relation of ideas. Adults legislate undeveloped moral agents (i.e. children) by teaching them to follow actions which they think best fit these rules. Do I find adults unethical when they apply and live their life according to such rules from the abstract relation of ideas? Generally speaking, no.
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Well, okay. I enjoyed your posts. IMHO, as much as I value this site, I definitely think that you should ignore DART debates and continue pursuing your studies. I don't think I can disagree with that. Anyway, thank you for your perspectives.
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@Reece101
...Stefan Molyneux
I think molyneux is very idiotic. I'm not sure what you're implying in that particular post but I just want to offer my opinion that his videos on philosophy are devoid of adequate research. In particular, his videos on Aristotle are abysmal. He used his own terminology which Aristotle never uses and he had trouble with understanding what is really a simple system of metaphysics.
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I looked him up and saw that he had a problem with benzodiazepines withdrawal. I'm not sure about his wild claims about human nature, I don't really care to devote much attention to it. I've looked at small soundbites and found them inferior to other philosophers. Plus, he seems like the kind of instructor that neglects his students just so he could deliver one or two witty punch lines about human nature. That was enough to separate myself from him. In short, I found nothing interesting about him because Im not partial to his lecturing style and I have no active interest in his ideas.
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@FLRW
Suppose you were standing before God right now and He asked you, “Why should I let you into heaven?” What would you say? I voted for Trump?
I would probably avoid that. I'd plead my case with the usual "big-brain" sophistry: "Intellectual engagement is a practice of faith. Do you know how well-read I am? Let me in"
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@zedvictor4
To be honest, I don't think that one can be taught art.....One can be taught technique and indoctrinated with other peoples ideas.Though I would suggest that art is not so much about what other people do, but about what you think.
Tip of the day. Thanks
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I've had little luck with contemporary art, let alone freelancers on social media. My class is currently on Frida Kahlo but it's pretty boring. I'm currently stuck with Childe Hassam. His art leaves just enough for me to imagine stories. i'm not really sure what to do with art other than to dream things in them. I wanted to browse hindu art online but the english translations were less than acceptable (and the textbooks were behind a paywall).
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@RationalMadman
Old-school Israel was as bad as Sharia Law on Human Rights and brutality (read the Talmud that is their version of Sharia Law, the Israelis who are truly pro-Netanyahu are almost always pro-Talmud). It's racist, cruel, sexist, homophobic and all of that. It literally is racist, that's not even an exaggeration, it says the Semitic descendants are superior to others, in God's eyes but despite this, Ethiopians (which are black Semites if you trace their roots) are often held beneath other Semites under Talmud rule so it's not even about religion or culture, it's literally the racial element of ethnicity that's the root thing at play.
I won't hide my disdain for religious laws. i've no recourse but to hide or parade myself in support of these laws whenever I'm back in my hometown. Clerics in my hometown are spewing constant anti-semitic hatred by using religion as a justification. An optimist may rely on the ulama but I'd argue the muslim scholars have no control over these hateful narratives. They have long faded into irrelevance ever since muslims started watching these clerics on Facebook live (and whatever trash these muslims are tuned on nowadays). Islam is the only religion that refuses to reform itself and while some reformation was seen during the proliferation of greek literature in medieval islam, I'm sure those record were permanently lost because of the aggressive nature of muslim fundamentalists. The muslim fundamentalists of today are no different from the past and they will continue to limit the spread of harmless ideas unless Islam reforms itself. I want to note that the christians are not innocent in this crisis, I found them and their veiled islamophobic tendencies equally obnoxious. Their continued presence in muslim countries contribute to the lack of reformation in islam.
Do you honestly think that this somewhat intersects with what Israel is facing within its borders? I doubt that. So no, I disagree with your opinion. Israel isn't necessarily the villain by virtue of its more islamophobic citizens.
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@TheUnderdog
The Arabs' failed offensive against Israel in the past was attributed to their disorganized military plan. If they failed to unite together in a war, I doubt they could unite in normal peace times.
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@RationalMadman
I have read your opinion but not the whole thread. I've been very clear from the start that I tend to have a one-sided support of Israel. For better or worse, I make no compromises in my belief. Israel has a right to exist(and the right to evict) for the simple fact that the countries surrounding it are barbaric, inhumane and primitive. I've heard arguments that Jordan have liberal tendencies, but those tendencies are non-existent. The Arabs will squabble if not for Islam and Islam is not reformed like other abrahamic religions. If the ruling muslim liberals will continue to use Islam as a tool of obedience, I would still label the country as inhumane and barbaric. A westernized muslim rendered passive by his culture is useless.
That's not to say that I don't appreciate your perspective. I can certainly feel what it's like for a "western democracy" to pervert human rights. I see countries in a pyramid. I think the western countries occupy the top but I think it is impossible for them to maintain their position without indirectly terrorizing the base of the pyramid. Traditional US allies like Saudi Arabia would probably be placed somewhere in the middle. That said, the countries without western values are still barbaric (their positions in the pyramid do not matter). A quick example can be reasonably seen today. During the start of the crisis, I think almost all of the muslim countries' foreign ministers delivered statements which are outwardly anti-semitic and I think I'm not surprised that there aren't any jews in muslim countries. The asian muslim countries weren't outwardly anti-semitic but I should say that this is primarily due to their passive culture. Behind closed doors, I'm confident that they are as anti-semitic as the majority of muslims in the middle east (and elsewhere). Thus, as I understand the conflict, I'm throwing my full support behind israel because the only alternative to israel is a widespread anti-semitic culture that embraces inhumane values. These inhumane values are a huge threat to the sanctity of human rights.
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@Lemming
I'm sure there are native americans living in the US. The same cannot be said of the middle east; there are no jews in arab countries.
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@3RU7AL
I think it's quite perplexing that almost all of your questions work as a starting impression. I think being virtuous is as vague as being good. I could cajole people into using unspecified elements of virtue and act as though virtue is interchangeable with good but that's about it. I want to understand the essence of virtue but I really can't unless I consider relevant impressions that are somewhat instances of virtue. I think the regularity in which I experience individual acts of kindness often led me to falsely think that virtue is reasonably ascertained. Clearly, virtue is not reasonably ascertained.
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I never really understood the dilemma in my introductory courses. I've scored extremely low in my exams because of that. I usually think of the dilemma in a different way. Like Hume, I think defining good without actual impressions is erroneous. Good is exemplified through acts of kindness. In my opinion, it's like a mechanical watch. If I was incapable of sense and reason, I like to think that I would be incapable of comprehending the idea of time. Hence, I would have to understand the exact manner in which time is exemplified. A mechanical watch is one such exemplar in which I could actually observe how time works. I think good should be defined in similar fashion. For example, I could volunteer at a local charity event and that would usually be considered as good. But without an actual impression of good, I don't believe philosophers could really qualify what it means to be good.
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Interesting answers. My childhood village had some of the wildest superstitions including demons regularly kidnapping children with a bamboo pole. I was also taught not to say certain words and to slap my ear to ward off demons. That's not to say that I believe in them but I do want to say that they've successfully invaded the more primitive parts of the world.
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@zedvictor4
Indeed. Although, I doubt most people would believe what you said. Otherwise, communication would've been less horrifying for first year expats living in Singapore. My opinion.
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@RationalMadman
Lol, Singapore isn't close to NK unless you're being racist about it.
Following Blumenbach, I think I would define the south part of asia as "malays" and the north part of asia as "mongolians". I don't really care of any other distinction and certainly not national distinctions. I'm not a big fan of multi-ethnic societies.
The authoritarianism isn't in the same league at all.
For the second time, I disagree. In my understanding, NK is deeply tradition-conscious. Singapore discarded most of its traditional values since its inception. Sure, I guess NK might not be similar with singapore but it doesn't change the simple fact that they are asians with a propensity for authoritarian values.
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@fauxlaw
I have logged so much time in Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand, not to mention China, to feel like an expat without ever being one, I understand exactly what MarkW is saying, and you do not get it. Or, if you do, or did, something is amiss evidenced by your commentary.
I agree with your sentiment.
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@RationalMadman
I don't think i agree. I think what irks me the most is your statement in which you said that Singapore is similar to western culture or however you framed it. The RSF press freedom index routinely places Singapore close to North Korea. You don't think that the rising case of authoritarianism throughout asia as a symptom of asian collectivism? Further, I wish to know where is this "western culture" you speak of in the East. I'm willing to bet that your target sample is just the same as any other person who travelled to asia. These "western-minded" expats and their "western-minded" asians are identical as with any other "traditional" asian; they're essentially passive and naturally compliant to authoritarian symbols. On a personal note, I had half expected western expats in Singapore to group up and form a cabal of unassimilated migrants but they seem content with a status quo that severely restricts freedom. Again, I think integration is not possible for both parties. Assimilation is perhaps the only prevalent and realistic path.
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@RationalMadman
Try to say things against the norms in your nation of Indonesia, then you will see what brutal PC culture is.
Well, I'm very confident that I have been subjected to such "brutal PC culture" but I'm not comfortable airing my personal issues out in a public forum. A while ago, I told one DART user in a PM about some details, but I feel that's enough.
The only difference is that what's non-PC is Indonesia may actually be the good stuff to say more often than in the 'western world'.
As an ESL speaker, I have no idea what you're talking about. I want you to cite examples. What exactly do you mean by the "good stuff"?
That said, I'm assuming you're trying to draw a comparison with how the east and west perceives PC culture. I think I'm not universalizing PC in my early post because I genuinely think that the East and West differ significantly in terms of their fundamental values. For example, a country like singapore has no common ground with the rest of the western world. I can say that there's a huge number of western-born expats but the vast majority of them (much to my disappointment) are forced to think in "assimilated" terms, if that makes sense. I think that social integration between the west and east is impossible. For this reason, any PC that happens in the west is usually laughed at unless you're the son of a general who lives off by regularly enrolling himself into over-priced american colleges. I believe that the east has stagnated precisely because of this fundamental difference. IMHO, If the east wishes to emulate the west, it would have to fully assimilate its values.
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@fauxlaw
Thank you. I'd like to think that I have a good eye for books. Dostoyevsky seems to be the more popular and sensible choice. I don't really need the book in indonesian since I live among the most conservative third-worlders but I do want the book in paperback. I hold unconventional and contrary beliefs to my peers' indonesian lifestyle. Paperbacks have this protective veil in which I'm able to drown out ostracization from family and friends. I could get them online but my online library is reserved for the riskiest and polemical part of literature (literature that local authorities could prosecute me with sedition-related charges).
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@RationalMadman
I never knew about that. If that's the case, the international community should be pressuring HAMAS to stop their disgraceful actions. Israel is just another western democracy who happens to be geographically situated among some of the most authoritarian and disorganized arab countries. I think it makes no sense to pressure Israel.
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There was a recent terrorist attack in both Afghanistan and Indonesia (where I live). I felt the most vivid forms of grief and despair. It was a surreal experience in which I experienced a new type of fear. Really, I think the chances of being blown up are pretty high. I support Israel for the simple fact that Palestinians support HAMAS (an actual terrorist organization).
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Well, I think the historical claims look complicated and I've never closely read them. For the laymen, I think it should suffice to understand that HAMAS is an actual terrorist organization. Much like other terrorists on this planet, I think they are always willing to commit terror on civilians. That should be enough to not support palestinians. The palestinians ought to destroy HAMAS or risk further evictions.
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I think I'm having a mysterious itch for russian novels. The only paperbacks available in my town are The Brothers Karamazov and Anna Karenina. I can't buy them both; western books are expensive where I live. I want to know which one of the two books would you read and why?
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@ethang5
Lol. I'm not confident I'm reading your reply correctly but I'm sure you'd prefer Voltaire, Hume, Kant and Butler over whiny, conspiratorial clerics on a tirade against western culture. These things are about the only things I have where I live. There's never a shortage of anti-western clerics but there's always rich western literature to explore (albeit they're difficult to find). I doubt you'll be able to find a reason to side with anti-western sentiments.
A rich third world is Singapore, which is well known for jailing westernized asian journalists. I'm not partial to politics outside of its inconveniences on my life so this is just my opinion.
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@janesix
It's a great book. I think it reads like some sort of an introduction to Galileo at times but Maria Celeste's emotional letters are worth it. I'd say read the book if her letters are interesting enough for you.
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@ethang5
Yeah, I hated the lack of free speech and I've always wanted books to read. You don't get to read a lot while living under authoritarian regimes. IMHO, third world countries (rich and poor) tend to share similar values (i.e. lack of free speech, book censorship).
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My current list:
Treatise of Human Nature (by David Hume)
Galileo's Daughter (by Dava Sobel)
Five Sermons (by Butler)
I've learned a lot of new materials to read ever since I joined this website. I hope to get my hands on those before the new year.
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