Mharman

Sometimes. 

There's not really much more to say here. Sometimes someone is objectively right when I am objectively wrong, and so I change my opinion on the issue because I can't find anything to debunk their argument.

The field of 16 drivers for the NASCAR playoffs has been set. Among them are drivers who have been class acts all season. They rarely show unjustified anger, and all of them have proven their skills... or just got lucky enough (more on that later).

This list is not about them. It's about having a laugh at the most irritating drivers (and others) on the circuit of NASCAR. Call it salt, and you'd be correct. I really don't care. With out further ado, here is my NASCAR Black Flag List:

Quite possibly the biggest example of nepotism in NASCAR, Cody Ware proves time and time again that with enough money, even your dreams can come true! Why yes little Timmy, you can be a star! Just win a championship in the small overseas Asian Le Mans Series where you were uncontested for the championship in your division that year, and you too, can kickstart your NASCAR career! Just ask his dad, Rick Ware, owner of Cody Ware's No. 51 for Rick Ware Racing!

Since joining NASCAR, Cody Ware's performance has been putrid in all three of NASCAR's National Divisions (Trucks, Xfinity, and Cup). With an average career finish of 30.9 in the Cup Series, you'd think he should drop back down to the Truck Series, where he has an much more impressive average finish of... 23.1. Okay, so maybe that won't make too much of a difference. But hey, at least he got his first career Top 10 in The Coke Zero Sugar 400 at Daytona last weekend! He's improving! Gee, it only took 28 of the 37 cars in the field wrecking out of contention... plate racing, amirite?

The only other notable thing Ware has accomplished this season was attracting the ire of a championship contender at Bristol, when he chased down Chase Elliot under caution to show displeasure after he got loose because he ran out of tal- er, got spun out by Elliot. Yeah. That's totally what happened. That's being said, it'll be difficult to get all sides of the story since Elliot might not remember it. He didn't remember who Ware was, after all! You'd think it's because Ware rarely sees Elliot on the track, but I have a counterpoint to prove Elliot's memory loss issues once and for all: He laps Ware several times a week! How could he NOT know who Ware is?!

Ya know, personally I wonder if this whole racing thing for Ware is just a front for Nurtec ODT to sell more migraine pills. He certainly is causing headaches for the other drivers and fans! I know it's bit of an unfounded conspiracy theory, but I'm sure it'll catch on quicker than Ware is on the track.

The son of a watermelon farmer and one of his watermelons, Ross Chastain is a driver who hit the Cup Series full-time (kinda) in 2018 driving the No. 15 for Premium Motorsports, with which he acheived less than premium results. Chastain failed to score a Top 15 until 2019, when he got a Top 10 at the Daytona 500 after 29 of the 40 cars in the field wrecked out of contention... plate racing, amirite (again)?

After dropping back down to Xfinity in 2020, his fortunes would improve when a dying Chip Ganassi Racing picked him up for a full time ride in 2021 to drive their No. 42 car. With this oppurtunity, Chastain finally got to run at front of the pack every once in a while, where he finally had plenty of opportunities! To wreck out the actual contenders and make every driver around him angry, that is. At the end of the season, Chastain finished 20th in points, Top 3 in most enemies made, and 1st in the I-got-cut-by-Chip-Ganassi-Racing-and-all-I-got-was-this-lousy-t-shirt award. The corresponding trophy Chastain got for his award was: You guessed it! A lousy t-shirt! NOTE: Still more fashionable than Chastain's t-shaped beard.

Fast foward to the present, and Chastain is finally a contender! He scored two wins! By wrecking everyone in front of him out, that is. Now, you might be asking, just who is "everyone?" Well, by "everyone" I mean Ryan Blaney, Kyle Busch, Denny Hamlin, AJ Allmendinger, Alex Bowman, Chase Elliot, Martin Truex Jr, Christopher Bell, Bubba Wallace, Kyle Larson, Kurt Busch, Autin Dillon, Erik Jones, and track boundaries. There's probably others, but I'm confident I've spent more time researching this than Chastain has spent racing cleanly. If there's any good news, it sounds like the other drivers are going to pay back Chastain during the playoffs. I am eagerly waiting for the longest YouTuber-level apology Chastain has ever given once it happens.

NASCAR as an organization, seems to be comitted to making and defending the worst decisions imaginable. From the 1969 Talledega 500 to the 2022 Coke Zero 400, NASCAR has seen some bad races over the years; In addition, from Jeff Gordon in 2004 to Martin Truex Jr in 2022, drivers have been screwed over by poor format decisions from NASCAR. I would say Bill France Sr. would be rolling his grave, but this seems par for the course for the organization he created. Legend has it, the ghost of France Sr. is still crushing driver unions in the afterlife. Thankfully for him, he doesn't have to deal with the ghost of Lee Roy Yarbrough.

Back to more recent times, the second least competitively fair era in NASCAR began in 2004, after it was decided that drivers like 2003 champion Matt Kenseth can't just walk in and completely outclass most of the field on a weekly basis to win championships. "No, no, no! Bad 1-win driver! Why couldn't you have been more like the 8-win Ryan Newman and have 7 DNFs!" said Brain France after some drinks and pills, probably.

In the Chase era drivers had to be "ACTUALLY GOOD"... for only the last 10 races of a season. So, what does one expect from a system where you only need to be merely decent for the first 26 races of a season? Exploitation, of course! Most notably, 7-time champion Jimmie Johnson would use the regular season as more of a "tune-up" for the Chase by driving at a relaxed pace. While the Chase created artificial exitement for a short amount of time, it would prove to make the sport even less exiting than the average Indy road course wreck-fest. After Johnson captured his sixth championship in 2013, NASCAR decided to drasically emphasise what they believed was the single most important skill a driver needed: Being lucky.

The actual least competitivly fair era began in 2014 when NASCAR introduced the Playoffs. This system revolved around the last 10 races like before; however, the difference was that those 10 races were splits up into four rounds with the first 3 being races each, culminating in a 'winner take all' season finale. This resulted in a system about as reliable as the single-lug wheel. Drivers nowadays frequently have great seasons only to have one bad race mid-playoffs and get screwed. "What's that Carl Edwards? You had a league best average finish of 7.2 and got wrecked out in the final race of the season? I guess that means you're only the fourth best driver!" said Brian France two years before getting arrested for DUI, probably.

Most recently, NASCAR added playoffs points and stage racing (with its own points), creating a motorsport so convoluted they needed a celebrity ad campaign for their system. Personally I think Jim France should've been the guy presenting the system. Nothing makes the public understand what your system is about quite like showcasing the geriatric man behind it all! Unfortunately for us, NASCAR seems to value their public image more than things like good officiating, so we got 4-time Grammy winner Keith Urban to spoonfeed the system to us. Hey NASCAR, since you've shown you can spend money on celebrities, can you spend some money on a car that absorbes impact better? No? Ah, well then. Godspeed in your concussion recovery, Kurt Busch! I hope NASCAR's virtue signaling will help other drivers avoid the same injuries!

Serving Pit Road Penalties to avoid being Black Flagged: Bubba Wallace, Kyle Busch, Joey Logano, Next Gen Car, Single Lug Tire, Rain Tires, and Chase Elliot fans.

"Guys gravity doesn't exist, weight is what's pulling all these objects down!"

The ability to change the email address linked to my account. I signed up for this site with a high school email years ago.

I likely won't. I'm trying college again this fall; I leave for campus in less than a week.

Gee, that's a good way to start a beneficial conversation!

1. No

2. No

I might try it out. It'll be in starting in September, right?

Because the last one ended with only a few people even bothering. Admittedly I lost interest in the middle of it last time.

We've done it before, but I'd be down

Supa is salty lol

I would call that Libertarian left. Doesn’t matter too much though.

I agree. Sources should be a part of the argument, not its own category. Conduct doesn’t matter in the matter of winning a debate (although it is appreciated), and Spelling and Grammar is not a huge issue as long as it’s legible.

As for me, I’m not going to use any appeal to majority arguments. They’re incorrect and easy to call out.

The only thing I could see being an issue is ratios on the site, but honestly who the heck cares about the number of likes? To me all the button does is (somewhat) prevent users from posting ‘+1’ posts.

Try this one out :)

Until then, I’ll see if I can get people to join this one.

I’ve been posting from vacation all week. I can try to start mine as soon as I get back.

In.

Speedrace isn’t ready yet, so you’re up. If you need more time as well, let me know and I’ll go.

 ^ 

Pretty sure Speed is next though. Lemme message him on Discord real quick.

Then RM is after Speed.

I guess I’ll hop in after RM. I have two games that I already made while NFL Mafia was going on.

4 INTJs so far. While typically a more rare personality (from what I looked up), it seems that the commonalities of certain personalities are altered when the test is applied exclusively to internet users.

I thought so. No American goes into Honduras for any other reason really. Stay safe, may the Lord be with you.

What is this trip even for?

When I say ‘figureheads’, I am talking about humans in this case. Yes, I do believe God is of infinite intelligence; however, the OP was about listing accomplishments made by humans to make the point that their side is correct because they are more intelligent (also,  I think OP was trying to counter the ‘atheists are cowards’ thread as well).

My only counters to this are that not only is it true that this type of argument is only good for raising the ego of whichever side makes it, it is also completely false. If one is to go by the accomplishments of humans, then what they should find is that no particular side has an advantage.

6 games it was.

MVP award or not, there’s almost always bound to be a good amount of salt in an endgame thread lol.

I wouldn’t be 100% pessimistic about convincing people, only 90%. I’ve had people here make arguments that were logical enough to change my mind on a few topics. It shouldn’t take a deep dive into human psychology and an entire flame war to change someone’s mind. All it should require is a couple of solid arguments. So, while it is true that debating on the internet is mostly fruitless, it isn’t completely fruitless. Same thing with debating people irl honestly. It’s a product of human nature. A society with no debating at all is a society in free fall. And yes, it is possible to have a social life irl and a meaningful discussion on this site.

Exactly. I tend to stay away from this particular forum for that exact reason. The only reason I posted in this one was because someone pointed me to over here and the OP irritated me.

This thread is not helpful at all. No one is going to change their mind after being insulted.

No, not really. I don’t think one is smarter than the other.

It’s a dumb thread that does nothing helpful.

I’m not even sure what this thread is even meant to accomplish or argue for. Seems like a mindless pissing competition of “my figure heads are smarter than yours”.

my game is complete- bumping thread

This was before the game started (NOT during the game) and Pie made a great point to me in a chat about why it's never a good idea. So in short, I will not be doing this in the future.

From now on, what you get is what you get. Please: Do not ask me to let you switch roles with your teammate ever again.

Random.org was used to slot players into their positions.

I used the site to choose a player at random, then assign them to a role at random. Take the player and role out of the pool, then rinse and repeat.

up 

is 

endgame

The split was teams with toxic fanbases being mafia. Roles were determined by what they were known for and team history- past and recent.

SirAnon - Waive

Badger - Roleblock Whiteflame

Speedrace - NK Danielle

DP3:

Greyparrot was lynched

NP3:

Danielle - Waive

SirAnon - Waive

Badger - Roleblock Danielle

Speedrace - NK Danielle

DP4:

Whiteflame was lynched

Given my previous games, I think this was a step in the right direction. However, there are definitely an issue I would've made different in hindsight.

So I tried stating the setup creation by starting with a power role dynamic and making it the core of the game. Then, I filled the remining roles, theme split, and characters, in that order. The dynamic I chose was "Town roles that could stop an NK and their counters". I started with a Doctor and Strongman, then gave town a Babysitter to stop an NK if they got rid of the Strongman and the Doctor had already died. Thinking the Strongman was still to strong, I added a Commuter that would avoid the Strongman entirely by leaving town. To give Mafia a chance to NK the Commuter, I gave them a Roleblocker that would stop them from leaving town; however, they had to be a bit more coordinated for this. At this point I filled in the rest. I went back to add in the Lynchproof after noticing Town would likely have a hard time figuring out the theme. I then balanced this with a Hated to make it easier for Mafia to cast suspicion on someone. I finished by adjusting characters to fit the new roles. To conclude, I do think the setup was balanced. At least on paper.

In reality, the game setup was way too repetitive. This made the game harder to read for both teams, and instead of being a game of making plays, it became a game of not making mistakes since the roles were confusing. While both teams had the opportunity to make mistakes, it lent its hand to whichever team got off to a hot start, unless a big turnaround would occur, but that didn't happen. So I leaned a pretty good game design lesson here: When picking a power role dynamic to start a game with, do NOT choose protective roles. Those roles exist mainly to protect informational roles, and therefore are NOT meant to be the centerpiece of a setup.

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If you have any thoughts, please post them; I am open to feedback (to improve my future games) and curious to see your thought processes.

GG.

Red 80!

Blue 50!

Welcome, to DP4!

Greyparrot - You are the Atlanta Falcons. A franchise known for repeated choking, with the worst of it coming in a Super Bowl. Thus, you are a Hated. You will take one vote less to lynch than normal; however, this will go away in MYLO and LYLO situations.

Danielle - You are the Indianapolis Colts. A franchise known for one of the most secretive and infamous movements of a team in league history, you haven’t found much of a difference in impact on the league since. Thus, you are a 2x Commuter. Once per night, twice per game, you may leave town and avoid any targets from power roles. You win with the Town.

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Eliminated:

Danielle - Town 2x Commuter

Greyparrot - Town Hated

Earth - Town Doctor

Pie - Town Vanilla

Oromagi - Town Vanilla

In the Hunt:

GLHF!