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@That2User
I don't think so. There are so many "what ifs", but not all of them can happen at once. We know there is at least an implied strongman and a ninja; the strongman is implied by Wylted's role while the ninja is implied by Earth's. We don't know if both abilities are stacked on the same scum players or across both. And if Whiteflame is immune to a lynch DP3 regardless, you can still lynch anyone else you suspect of being Whiteflame's teammate, including me.
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Ik why WF living is implicating, why it makes sense that he's lynched, but why you?
I am speaking from his perspective to convince him. If I am following his logic, he would want me lynched after we lynch Whiteflame. So I just proposed we lynch me if the plan fails, which pretty much all of town can agree on anyways if the plan does fail. Again, I am just that confident the plan will work.
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@That2User
Which of RM and Whiteflame is faking their role. I think RM, but I want this test just in case. If it really does result in the spin from Whiteflame that RM fears, we just lynch Whiteflame anyways.
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Mafia has a role that can vote with extra power at one point in the game (meaning this is lylo)
In that case it would go away at MYLO/LYLO, as has been the trend in Lunatic's games.
Mafia has a ninja, which means instead of killing Earth, all they need to do is kill me (I reckon NP1 they used Strongman, fearing all sorts of protective powers and left me alive hoping to cc me with relative ease, since that is instantly what WF did and when he did so he even said 5v2 showing he barely read the OP and it was preplanned as he hadn't clocked it was 4v2).
If that's the case then Whiteflame will show up to Earth as "not visiting anyone" and therefore would be lying about cop, resulting in an instant Whiteflame lynch.
No offense but based on past performance, Earth doesn't hammer or cut through themes and reading as well as I do, there is no humble way to say it. I want to be the hardcarry hammer, over Earth. Even if we remove people from the equation, if we kill Whiteflame, he's either strongman or ninja blatantly due to what a 'KO punch' is in terms of power and speed, based on what he is, it will be telling who dies. If the remaining person is not ninja, then if Earth tracks the other and they don't visit, they're lucky but if not they lose, however they're absolutely blackmailed to kill me because of how OP my power is in endgames.
So you don't trust Earth here, your 100% town read? You may not believe in Earth, but I'm pretty sure they'll watch Whiteflame in the night if we do this plan. They're not stupid.
The scum has a roleblocker, rendering this not only useless but enabling all sorts of fakeclaim of being roleblocked or not roleblocked and a redirector or something really skewing what goes on the next NP and making the real investigative role look scummier.
Then we just lynch Whiteflame and I'll go with it too. Again, if you are the one roleblocked and can't tell I can also be a lynch target next DP. I am really this confident in the plan.
I CAN WIN (probablistically ) NOW BY FORCING THIS. There is only contingent worries on the other side of a NL and zero gain, absolutley fucking zero for me individually/selfishly/egotistically and Town from my selfless perspective too. There is every single reasonf or me to force this aggressively and zero, absolutely zero, reason for me to lay off whiteflame. Boxing does not fit the theme at all, no possible theme can work with Boxing as Town here and cop and parity cop? With clear tracker on top? That's bastard modding.
Or we can lose the game because you are wrong again. At least with the test there will be more information, especially given that your concerns here are not actually concerning.
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@RationalMadman
A NL with a 100% clear, Earth, from my perspective does NOT achieve shit. Earth will die (because if I die, Earth is clear) and then the game proceeds as follows:The cc between me and whiteflame intensifies, enabling him much more room to manipulate the desperation and panic by pointing out how Supa has been laidback and knowing that mharman doubts and isn't quite sure he is scum
Fine. If this scenario happens, we can all lynch Whiteflame, and I will vote for Whiteflame too. But only on one condition: You vote to not lynch this DP AND use your power to get results in the night (if you have it). You can even use it on Whiteflame and me if you want. That way, once Whiteflame is lynched, my affiliation can be tested if he's guilty (If he's innocent the game ends with a mafia win). You results will confirm it. If you are roleblocked, then just lynch me then for telling you to do this, since the plan failing like this would likely make me scum.
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No matter who you are, if you believe you are town, then you should know we'll have the scum team caught by voting to not lynch as long as we run the test.
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@That2User
Let's make this sequence: WF lives in DP2 via VTNL, RM/Earth is roleblocked, mafia kills the other in NP2, WF is lynched DP3 bc not cooperating, WF is town
Then that means Whiteflame is town, Earth is town, and RM is town. Since you would know you are town, you could easily conclude from your perspective it's Supa and I by POE. So the scum team would still be figured out. So that's not a concern either.
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@That2User
Wdym?
Are you concerned Whiteflame is town and then scum team kills him to stop the info from coming out? If that is your concern, then that would mean Whiteflame would flip town as cop, and then we have to info we need to eliminate RM next DP, since if Whiteflame is town RM is definitely scum, given what they have claimed. Seriously. This is the one test that would prove which investigative role (RM or Whiteflame) is fake claiming and RM is against it when it can be so easily done and impossible to counter if he really believes Whiteflame is scum anyway.
If you are concerned about mafia keeping Whiteflame alive to frame him, then that just leaves Whiteflame able to cop a mafioso and catch them, which I don't think the scum team would do, and even if they do, then them killing Whiteflame would mean that they have at least one of Earth's or RM's results to contend with. If they have roleblocker, they can't block both.
If Earth dies and RM gets roleblocked, then Whiteflame can be lynched anyways since a scum team (as I've already covered in the second paragraph of this post) would not leave him alive if Whiteflame is really a town cop, so then we would conclude Whiteflame is scum.
There's no way for this test to fail. Also, why not try it anyways? If you're wrong on Whiteflame being scum here we lose the game. By at least voting to not lynch, the test can be run and we'll know for sure.
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@RationalMadman
@That2User
oh. I didn't understand what role That2 was then.
Regardless Whiteflame would still have both RM and Earth investigating him in this plan. He can't kill both if he's lying about being cop. Unless you want to argue a roleblocker would stop one of RM/Earth and scum team kills the other. That may be possible, but then if that happens you can still just lynch Whiteflame anyways for not cooperating.
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@RationalMadman
it will literally prove him guilty if he's not dead
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@RationalMadman
Earth on me followed by me getting roleblocked or redirected is terrible af for me and I reckon this is the plan. I believe that Wylted roleblocked the most powerful scum.
Are you talking about whiteflame's plan here? If you really are town you have no reason to go against it
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@RationalMadman
yeah but doesn't karate and kung fu fit that too?
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@That2User
side note, do you even know how to use the quote text feature?
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@Earth
forgot to ping you. Read Whiteflame's idea in the last paragraph of post #113
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@That2User
yup. Earth and RM can use their abilities on him. (if RM even has the ability he says he does)
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@RationalMadman
@That2User
Read whiteflame's idea. It will prove his affiliation
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@Vader
Vote not not lynch when you are ready please. We are at a 4v2 and it's better to make that a 3v2.
plus, whiteflame has an idea that I'm confident will prove him innocent. Or guilty if you really think he is.
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@That2User
You could gain a bit more info and a mathermatical benefit if you do that tomorrow and vote to not lynch today.
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@RationalMadman
Boxing can't be town, read the description and notice the pattern:Disarming and/or incapacitating.
First off, I'm pretty sure rendering your opponent incapacitated is the whole point of Boxing. Second, if you really believe your own theory, where does your own alleged character even fit into this? You said it was about balance, yet your theory alleges disarming is the town theme. Balance is completely unrelated to disarming an opponent.
And this isn't even to mention that disarming an opponent can be a focus of any martial art. It's way too broad to come up as a legit theme analysis. More like a faux contribution that I fell for last DP.
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@RationalMadman
You should be open to all possibilities and behaviour-reasoning and hone in from chaos and reactions piecing together like a complex puzzle. That's how Town should think and read. Scum goes from structured to chaotic.
I've been open to a lot of possibilities. I was even open towards Wylted towards the end of DP1Including the one where you are attempting to control the whole game. It makes more sense even now with Earth's role, who I townread given 1) Watch/Tracker is fairly common in Lunatic's games, 2) His result seems to match what would've happened in the night (Pie did say DP1 he would vote Wylted DP2 if CNerd was town, so in retrospective it makes sense Pie would vig Wylted). I am still in full belief of the idea that cop is just a stupid fake claim that no scum team (let alone someone as experienced as Whiteflame) would do. So that leaves you. I still think you made the whole thing up, AND to top it all off, we still don't have your results. Where are your results, RM?
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@RationalMadman
Because cop is very common in a lot of games. Same thing with doctor.
I claimed to be the investigative PR, you blatantly implied we dont clash role-wise...
If you are talking DP1 when I townread you, that was based on the idea that A) ComputerNerd is town, so unusual characters are not a sign of being scum (which still holds up) and B) Your behavior fits your claimed role.
And it's the latter that bothers me now. Your behavior no longer matches that role. You're all over the place. You went from Pie to me to Whiteflame to Earth. We haven't even got your result from last night, which makes me doubt you even have the role you say you do now. I should've listened to Pie when he said you have zero credibility in your theme analysis. It's clearly true, given Wylted's flip and the fact that's you can't pin a solid theme or player down worth anything. With that being said, I think you made it up to control the game and setup a false narrative of CNerd vs. Wylted, especially since Judge would be a new role to Lunatic's games and has never appeared on this site period. In my analysis of Lunatic's games back in Ozark Mafia, not once did he introduce a new role in the games I analyzed.
Considering everything so far, all of this now, you are now at the very top of my list for scumreads.
As for the other teammate, my current theory is That2, given how you accepted him and said he was town with no question whatsoever, and is pretty much piggybacking you at this point. Supa remains a wild card however, given his inactivity and That2's piggybacking could easily be town sheeping if it's Supa, which I can also see.
Regardless, I still want to vote to not lynch because of the aforementioned mathematics and the aforemention bonus night kill to analyze. It is easily the best option and all can still be discussed this DP and the entire next one if we vote to not lynch.
As for claiming? Sure. I am vanilla because Sambo has had many hyped up UFC fighters (Dennis Siver and his infamous loss to Conor McGregor were the example given in my role PM) yet only one champion who uses it often in the form of Khabib Nurmagomedov.
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@RationalMadman
why do you push for vtnl when 2 died in a night? Use your head.
Because we are at an even number right now in a 9-player setup (so there HAS to be 2 scum) AND in MYLO. Lynching at a 4v2 is mathematically and informationally a terrible idea. With a vote to not lynch, The odds of hitting scum mathematically in the DP3 lynch jump from 33% to 40% AND we get one more NK to analyze before lynching, which should increase our odds of hitting scum even further, especially since it makes it even harder for the scum team because they have less townies to accuse.
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@RationalMadman
computernerd's role would make cop a severely dysfunctional role to the point of bastard modding.
How so? The way I see it, no scum team is dumb enough to fake a cop claim. It is by far one of the riskiest things that they could claim.
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@That2User
If you didn't want to why did you? We had plenty of options, including VTNL, extending the day phase would be pro-town too
I did what I did because like I said, time was short and we needed a lynch. Given the inactivity of Supa and the very small amount of activity from Earth, I felt getting a lynch on Wylted (who I preferred to lynch by the end of DP1 over CNerd) was next to impossible because there was only two people voting him. So that just left CNerd. I figured he would flip town, but DP1 a no-lynch harms us more than a mislynch because of the lack of information.
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@RationalMadman
If you are mad at me for voting CNerd, keep in mind I didn’t really want to, I just felt Wylted wasn’t enough of option
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We should VTNL. We are in MYLO and the odds of hitting scum in crease if it is a 3v2 instead of a 4v2.
VTNL
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@RationalMadman
I already don’t like voting for him. But I see no better option right now.
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@whiteflame
Fine. I will vote CNerd. I still think he is town, but we need a lynch and I honestly don’t see it happening on Wylted this DP despite some points RM is making that make me wonder about Wylted more.
That being said, I am starting to see some of the logic in scumreading CNerd, I just don’t agree with it all. I guess if he is scum then it can make sense to him to have a slip up like that. I don’t think the slip up is scummy from what I’ve seen, but I don’t think any better option present itself and again, we need a lynch this DP.
VTL CNerd
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@ILikePie5
tbh I am switching it to null. I took a bit of a break and realized I was getting overdefensive of CNerd to the point where, in my head, I accused his accusers. I'll admit I can at least see Whiteflame's logic. Aikido is rare in the MMA (at least according to what I looked up), but aren't some of the characters bound to be? I just think CNerd's behavior is too much noob town to me.
As for you, your logic I vehemently disagree with, but being wrong doesn't mean being scum. So I have not much else to go on for you I guess. But I do have an eye on you still.
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@RationalMadman
I don't think there's a TP in a 9 player game. It should be a 7v2
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This is distinct from outright claiming, which he has done in the past games. He made 3-4 posts with detailed analysis, which we never have seen before from him. Then he decided to buddy with RM and claim.
I call that an effort to git gud.
No, his first instinct was to reveal what he thought was Wylted’s character. I don’t know how you believe this behavior is normal from him.
Post #35 is where that first instinct is; Post #37 is just suboptimal play.
No. There’s was zero analysis from him in that game. Absolutely zero. Now he comes out of nowhere and starts researching and being extremely active? That is a complete behavior shift.
Being more active doesn't always make one scum. Consider what happened the last two games he played. He wasn't active enough, people criticized his inactivity, and he got demotivated to play mafia afterwards, he has given it another shot here, and is more active because he wants to do well that badly.
That’s my point. If he was town, he’d be more laid back. As scum mafia feel like they have the obligation to post to seem like they’re contributing. You can’t townread him for “contributing” when scum can do that too.
He did more than just fake a contribution. He softclaimed his character, claimed vanilla ("It is not a power role" is what he said), and even gave what his character's style was in Post #35 alone. Not to mention Post #46, where he fully claimed his character.
He has to maintain the facade of noob town as scum, which is why he claimed without any pressure. And he’s being active af. Again this behavior is inconsistent with his town behavior form the last game.
Okay, but that is all speculation. I'd need to see something more concrete before I doubt my read on him.
I agree that this is noob mistake, but it’s a noob mafia mistake. I’ve seen noobs for years and this difference of behavior is concerning.
If that's the case then the mistake would be that he would've outed his thoughts publicly instead of in a mafia PM, or in both. Which is fair. Still, I would need something to go alongside it to flip my stance on him.
Confidence comes from information. Mafia have information. You can read it as noob all you want. Maybe it is. But there’s a clear distinction in behavior and we should act on it.
That information was Wylted saying he was softclaiming, which is info the all of us got when Wylted made his posts. CNerd just didn't handle it correctly.
I think he’s scum based on behavior.
I don't.
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@ILikePie5
i trust his analysis right now; just want some thoughts from supa
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