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Yknow I had felt User's claim was just an effort to be extra helpful bc i felt there was no reason to offer that as scum. I townread Mikal behaviorally, so I'm inclined to believe him. It would be prudent of me to double check something though hold on
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forgot Wylted. Townreading him as well
The CC changes things
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@Mikal
I have no idea why you would fake claim a character when no one would know the theme but this is my character lol
wait fr?
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alr I'm here. Townreading USer, Banana, Mikal, and Lunatic. I think there's two scum between Whiteflame, Pie, and Moozer. I'll be typing up those reads shortly
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@ILikePie5
I trust behavioral reads more than probability assessments. I think the big question on Whiteflame is solely revolved around whether he would claim like this as scum.
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@Lunatic
noted. Like I’ll said, I’ll sleep on somethings, and take a fresh look at the DP in the morning
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@Lunatic
That's my point though, theres a list of roles that can "Only be town" "only be scum" and "Could be both". Why not just claim from the "can only be town" list?
Interesting point.
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Someone mentioned Pie’s steeping and I don’t like it either. The one thing I’m trying to watch for is if Mikal and Lunatic are just trying to steamroll town. I will say it’s hard for me to sus two players together when I don’t like Whiteflame’s claim. I’ll sleep on it for now.
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Mega sus actuallyPlease, explain.
JOAT is my first problem. Idk what mod put a commuter w a JOAT, much less with a manipulative role. First impression is that is looks like a slap-dash fake claim.
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@Lunatic
@Mikal
Better to eliminate the keyboard droolers
Well, I did say I wasn’t gonna be doing much the first day of the DP.
I don’t see too much of a reason not to soft, not for this game. I am not a stealth jet.
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I’ll agree Banana is town.
Not sure on Lunatic, Pie, or Mikal yet.
Whiteflame’s claim is… interesting. A little sus imo
Not sure on Lunatic, Pie, or Mikal yet.
Whiteflame’s claim is… interesting. A little sus imo
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Guys I started the jet softclaims as a joke lol… did not expect people to think it was serious for a sec
In other news, goodnight Cleveland. Pacers moving on!
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Busy today so I won’t have much to add today
I will softclaim that I am a jet
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@Bullish
@Mikal
Alr I’m feeling better-ish about mafia. Throw me in for 9. Yolo
Been years since I last played w you mikal
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Shoutouts to Jimmy Butler and Nico Harrison for generating headlines that got me interested in watching basketball. I’m watching frequently for the first time in my life. Go Pacers!
Also: Hockey? Meh.
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@Statichead
I’ll give it to Pokémon Legends Arceus for the story, exploration, and the catching/dodging mechanics
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@Greyparrot
Yesterday my grandfather questioned why we were funding gender reassignment surgeries for children with our taxpayer dollars. I was shocked, appalled, flabbergasted, and stunned to discover that my grandfather is Nazi. I wonder if his service in WWII led to him eventually succumbing to their propaganda.
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@Statichead
Terraria
- Great progression system
- Love the bosses
-Love the weapons
-can build
- tons of other small cool stuff
Super Mario Maker 2
-infinite Mario
-creating stuff
-kaizo
-platforming
Game 3 I’m not sure. Lots of options, people underrate old games
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How did this thread get derailed by politics so fast
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Oh the undercover cop self protects… that’s what I missed lol
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@ILikePie5
Ok but TT + W/T + UC? Scumsided rn, but townsided if town gets used to it.
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@Lunatic
@ILikePie5
You can get it on PC, right?
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@ILikePie5
I did think about it holistically. Can't dodge every investigative without some great luck.
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@ILikePie5
Especially with investigatives
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Three investigative roles in a 9-player game. That’s my only critique.But no protective roles. Gotta look holistically
Eh. The redundancy is the problem. It puts town at a disadvantage thanks to CCs. And in a world where it becomes normal, scum is at a disadvantage.
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@Lunatic
You were watching videos too. I never bothered with that
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Three investigative roles in a 9-player game. That’s my only critique.
As for Vanillas, I don’t hate playing vanilla.
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Also, I misread Wylted’s PM. I thought it said he couldn’t be protected on nights he used his role.
Nvm I read correctly. Pie just baited me into thinking there a protective somewhere
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@iamanabanana
👍
I felt like I was doing a good job of defending myself though. I didn’t need to convince you I was town… just everyone else.
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Also, I misread Wylted’s PM. I thought it said he couldn’t be protected on nights he used his role. Had I read it correctly, I would’ve claimed a protective role, and left the informed as an option for Cerulean.
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Informed is funny cause you can just make stuff up.
The point of the extra NK idea was a fake counterbalance to Moozer’s role.
The hidden ability was intended to be separate, but I felt my fake claim would be more cohesive if the information I got was related.
What Cerulean pointed out to me in thread was something I actually didn’t consider- I thought not revealing would be consistent with my behavior as town prior to that.
The idea was to reveal the NP1 info DP4 if needed.
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@ILikePie5
Hammer.
Good job town see yall tomorrow
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@whiteflame
@Cerulean
We’re lynching Earth. Hammer when ready; if you have questions, ask.
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@iamanabanana
I’ve already said it’s a toss up between you and Cerulean. Why would I even chance that?
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@whiteflame
Banana is sticking with me? Interesting. We’ll see if that changes. Could be something to read for tomorrow.
It’s difficult between her and Cerulean, but a lack of willing to vote for Earth after starting the DP voting for him, could be a sign Banana wasn’t planning a bus. Helps her case.
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@Earth
@whiteflame
@Moozer325
@Cerulean
@iamanabanana
Alright. There’s questions to be had on Cerulean and Banana, but I think Earth is the most likely culprit. The evidence is just overwhelmingly against him, if you want to read my reads.
If you need me to expand upon a point in my reads, lmk. Right now, I’m gonna make the call.
VTL Earth
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Setup thoughts
So, we have a strengthener and a cop. With this duo, I think there is room for a second investigative role, although not guaranteed.
We have a mason that can be used for more private interrogations/ conversations/planning/ thoughts and informed to reveal some setup information. Can these two roles overcome the need for a second investigative? Possibly, so there’s a chance that we don’t have a track/watcher or a motion detector/time traveler.
But then there’s the claimed muse. A muse is a negative utility role (imo) that shuts off a town PR when killed. If there is such a role, it does allow for another investigative. There’s also the martyr. It would do the same thing. There may be a conflict between those claims.
That being said, the big conflict between claims is the tracker/watcher and the time traveler (formerly motion detector). Any way you slice it, there is not room for both. Not to mention the fact that the two roles do what is basically the same thing. You select a player, and learn about night actions they may have committed, or may have been used on them. There are some small differences, but to be frank, they seem irrelevant.
Last thing worth noting: if there is a protective role in this game that was never claimed, then than any room for a second investigative is even more difficult to justify, let alone for a third. Although I do think the chances of a third are basically nonexistent anyway.
Earth
(DP2 read: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/12621-call-of-duty-black-ops-mafia-dp2?page=4&post_number=120)
Since this read, I haven’t been given any reason to townread Earth. The lack of clarity on the the claim is weird, and he only upgraded his claim after Banana’s CC. Despite the claim, the justification is still garbage.
The only other thing worth noting this DP is post 112, where he says Banana might be town based on the presence of a redirector. Interestingly, he fails to consider the redirector targeted him. Not only is this a clue that Earth’s claim is fake- it’s a clue that the read on Cerulean based on his results is entirely forced, along with the belief that there’s even a chance Banana might be town. Under no circumstances, from a townie Earth’s POV, should he think Banana is town.
Now to ask: Is it for a bus on Cerulean, or a push for a mislynch? And what of Banana?
Banana
Banana has given me little to read, until now.
But first let’s talk about the claim. I do have questions about the possibility of a second investigative. I do have a small nitpick with it (rareness of character) as well. The justification makes sense. It is similar to Whiteflame’s, although the character is a tad bit rarer, but if there’s a game where the mod makes an obscure pull because he wants a specific role, this would be the game. It certainly looks better than Earth’s claim, that’s for sure.
On the behavior side of things, the analysis looks fine. The read on me is wrong, but for advanced reasons, ones that I don’t think scum Banana could fake. I’ll admit my reasoning here isn’t concrete, because Banana could just be getting better at the game.
The mannerisms, I’m not sure how to read. I’ve seen her talk like this as scum, but I get the sense it’s probably how she talks no matter the affiliation.
The only thing that bugs is that she has a real incentive to CC Earth in this DP for a quick lynch or a bus. Oh, and the fact that Earth should be hard scumreading Banana right now, but isn’t. If Banana is hypothetically Earth’s teammate, I will say whoever doesn’t get lynched comes out of it smelling like a rose
Cerulean
I believe Earth is scum, therefore, he must be bussing someone. One think I think is odd is that if Earth is in a team with Banana, why spend more time on Cerulean, rather than reciprocating the bus from Banana? Instead, he goes for Cerulean. This is the Earth/Cerulean connection. Yes Earth expressed a scumread on Ceriean last DP, but he never explained it. Ceruean asked Earth a question, but nothing more. Of note, Earth closed the DP with a vote on Moozer, before we could get reads out of Cerulean. DP2 fells more like distancing than an honest scumread.
As for Cerulean’s claim, meh. From a mechanical pov, his claim doesn’t immediately CC Wylted. Wylted negates a whole NP at the cost of his life, and Cerulean costs one townie his role for good upon death. But when you consider what may be need to justify the existence of a second investigative role, Wylted’s does the trick and Cerulean’s is overkill. However, the justification is solid and the character is expected.
On Cerulean’s behavior, meh. He gave me little to go off of, but in previous DPs when he has, it was fine analysis. I still also give some credit to Casey.
As for this DP, it’s honestly still fine analysis. He’s asking good questions and exploring different theories. The only thing lacking is a solid scumread or set of reads.
Yknow I’m kinda realizing it’s hard to scumread Cerulean based on behavior. I had a (now deleted) sentence about Banana being less likely to be Earth’s teammate than Cerulean, but now I’m not sure. Cerulean’s behavior is just a tad bit better imo.
It may be more likely that Banana was hard bussing Earth, and Earth went for the play of hoping Cerulean gets mislynched so F4 is avoided. Very hard to say because I think the Earth/Cerulean connection is stronger, but Ceruelan’s behavior just looks better. Maybe the connection is a lack of connection, if that makes sense.
hm. I’m gonna say it’s a 55/45 in favor of Banana being the teammate. That’ll be difficult for tomorrow.
Whiteflame
I have considered Whiteflame as an outside chance, but… nothing. All good analysis, questions- the reasoning is great for the most part. I do get the sense we’re on the same wavelength.
All in all, nothing to defeat my earlier townreads on him.
Moozer
Town confirmed by role. I guess he just really didn’t have much to say at the time of me scumreading him. He’s doing more now, so perhaps that was the fallacy in my reasoning from yesterday. I see you Mooz
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Ok I’m done reading but my ass is gonna go to sleep and post it in the morning
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Anyway, I'm going to go reread this game. Shouldn't take too long, no DP is 300+ posts. Will finalize my reads for this DP. Rn leaning toward Earth being scum and bussing Cerulean. Banana is possible, but less likely due to a meta read I have on Earth.
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@ILikePie5
time check upon next vote count?
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@iamanabanana
btw, when I refer to passive landmines, I'm referring to passives that are threatening, but only if scum visits. Just wanted to clarify
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@iamanabanana
Why would mafias ability to have an extra night kill be affected by their knowledge of another plays hidden ability?
It's possible the two pieces of information I got aren't related; I simply theorized that they were. My theory is that interacting with a certain player in a certain way (most likely a NK) grants an extra kill, via whatever is hidden about their role. It's based on mod psyche as well, because I'm predicting all three pieces of information I can get are related (yes, I did talk with Pie- he confirmed I don't gain anything NP4+... somewhat obvious but it was worth asking).
I think it's totally possible that could be a reason, there could be a plethora of reasons, you just happened to use that as an example, being overly defensive like that could suggest that is the actual answer. Either way there could be a different one too, but seeing as you had the luxury of being able to claim when you want, last, and under no pressure, I have every reason to believe you prepared the fake claim last second, as if waiting to build your claim around what everyone else claimed. The behavior in question is about responses to cerulean that occured before you divulged the information about your night 1 action, you could tailor that information however you wanted based on ceruleans claim and responses to your role.
1. Last DP I had told everyone else could claim after Cerulean and I. I would've been willing to go first if it weren't for the fact that I wanted more to read Cerulean off of, as well as the off chance he claims my character or someone else's. The only reason I was the last person to full claim is because no one listened to me.
2. Even before Cerulean full claimed, I did hint at my information before Cerulean full claimed.
3. Go ahead, list another reason for your theorized scum Mharman to hold off on information like that. I was refuting what I felt was the likely argument coming from you. I'm decent at the game, I'm not going to draw an extra sus by withholding information like that as scum. I'd have it up front and ready to go.
This reads like a threat "If you keep on this route of suspecting me I might turn this around on you. so watch yourself". Why would you be threatening me with a read, you either do or you don't scum read me. It's convenient that the reads suddenly strengthens when I start asking you some light questions. You are getting very defensive :)
Once again, I will defend myself from mislynches lol.
As for your perceived threat, no. I just said I was becoming more willing to bet that you don't know what's going on, as opposed to the idea that you were pretending to so. Yes, I will continue to have some level of sus on you as long as you are in my POE (Earth Cerulean Banana), but it's not at the level of what I have on Earth.
"It seems you have your mind made up, which is strange you aren't considering much of mharman but whatever." -Banana to Whiteflame
But since we're having a discussion about threats, could I reasonably consider this a threat? A "start sussing Mharman or I start to sus you" kind of thing? Rhetorical question btw
There's been a lot of discussions about most or a lot of these roles having shaky justifications. Im not too familiar with this game to really dig deep into that stuff anyway. Right now I am more focused on people's behavior.
You can focus on both lol
They have no reason to hit outside of those targets.First things first, you are the only player in this game who had not revealed their role while claiming an active role.They have plenty of reason to hit outside those targets.1. Again, the threat of a doctor being one. If your saying those three targets are "obvious" wouldn't scum want to try and hit outside of the group of people most likely to prevent their kill?
If anything the notion of a doctor encourages scum to try to find and target the doctor. AKA someone with an active role. AKA not me.
2. There was three unclaimed individuals, me you and cerulean. Just because I claimed an active role didn't neccesarily mean my role was a threat to them. Also you could have been lying about being a passive role, and secretly BEEN the doctor. Same with cerulean. Unclaimed townies seem like a pretty big threat. Look at the role you have. If your role is true it could be a huge negative for mafia, they have no reason to assume your role isn't a threat because you claimed it was passive.
Sure passive roles can be threatening, but active ones are usually more threatening. A passive role could be negative utility, or a weaker investigative/protective, like oracle or bulletproof, or even something like commuter. A passive role could be negative utility for town, at which point it's valuable to keep them alive. Passive roles can also be a major landmine for scum.
Meanwhile active roles are your doctors, your cops, your tracker/watchers, strengtheners, confirmables, masonizers, even vigilantes (although vigilantes almost never exist in 9-player games). Especially late in the game, they can cause havoc to a scum team if they don't spend time dealing with them.
To suggest that you KNEW you weren't a viable target enough to risk allowing game changing information to not be revealed, also suggests you have inside information, and knew you wouldn't be targeted, as if you were the one with the ability to direct the night kill...
Or I just had the game sense to shoot for more information with my role, while understanding that with the way mafia teams tend to think, I wasn't their likely NK.
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