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@whiteflame
I haven't really said anything about my justification so far and it looks like it's gotten more attention overnight. From where I'm sitting, it doesn't really fit. When we did that Phoenix Wright game a while back, I recall my partner fake claimed Strengthener using a character whose whole thing was drinking coffee, which made more sense and came after a revelation that there was a town RB, which made it more believable. In this game, the justification is relatively weak (it does talk specifically about his strength and not really empowering others, though I guess you could argue that Sergei's efforts empowered Mason - that's me reading into the justification, it's not what it literally says) and I don't have any other claims to use as a basis for the existence of a Strengthener.
This doesn’t deviate from his behavior in Bo Burnham
I'm not trying to make a WIFOM argument here about how I would have used the Strengthener if I was scum, I know that's BS. It would absolutely not be a first for me to come up with a weak fake claim and then try to pass it off as a poorly written PM. I'm just articulating the points of weakness in my claim because being straightforward about it is better than getting defensive over it at this point.
This deviates, however.
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Bo Burnham Mafia DP1
Not a whole lot of defense of the claim itself, but rather a defense of him making the claim.
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Moozer or Bullish + Earth, I guess Ceruelan, Banana, and Whiteflame are floating around there somewhere
I do feel Whiteflane would have a sense of some obligation to defend d his claim more if he were scum.
The few things Earth has posted have been quality at least… can’t really say that for Bulliish
I would love more active posting from Banana. That’s about it.
Maybe I’ll reorganize it like this
T
1. Lunatic
2 Wylted
3 Whiteflame
T4 Cerulean
T4 Banana
T6 Earth
T6 Bullish
8 Moozer
S
Honestly will probably abandon the scumread on Moozer if I don’t like Bullish’s claim. I don’t think they are paired
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Moozer train going nowhere and I think yall should consider it more.
I guess I’m down to get something more conclusive on Bullish tho
Unvote VTL Bullish
I guess I’m down to get something more conclusive on Bullish tho
Unvote VTL Bullish
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I could see him being teammates with Moozer, with Bullish, less so but it’s not as bad of a pairing as Moozer/Bullish.
I think I’d drop him below Bullish on the list.
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Honestly lowkey Earth is only a small step better than Moozer. I kinda respect a few points he’s made, but that’s about it.
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@Earth
@Bullish
No I just forgot Earth exists lol
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I’m gonna order it like this:
T
Lunatic
Wylted
Cerulean/Casey
Whiteflame
Banana
Bullish
Moozer
S
I don’t like the idea of a Moozer/Bullish pairing though.
I think I’m wrong on someone and my ranking is off as a result. Def a missing variable somewhere in there.
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Have thought about Cerulean a little, but feel meh cause nothing sticks out except for the unexplained tr of Moozer. I’ll say he’s given some decent thought although I don’t agree. Casey looked ok I guess. I did give that tip of the hat earlier.
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As for Luantic, hard town. I think his early interaction with Whiteflame is towny enough, and I’m somewhat confident he didn’t have a fake claim ready at that point to shut the whole softing thing down. Last game where he made a bold claim is fresh in my mind, but I just don’t think this is the game where it’s happening.
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@whiteflame
@iamanabanana
Feel like Banana and Whiteflame’s replies to Casey are a little off. Hm.
In the meantime, I should clarify this. I felt both’s responses were a little fencesitt-y.
In the case of Banana, I think she misunderstood the question bc she’s talking about full claims, not softing, so I feel like giving it a derp pass for the time being.
Reading Whiteflame’s again, it’s not exactly the fencesitting I wondered about when I first read it. So whatever. Like yeah he says he sees both sides, but he takes that thought and says something interesting in the third paragraph.
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@Cerulean
Why is Moozer your top townread? Am I just missing shit that’s just obvious to yall or something?
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@Lunatic
So, what is your problem with my read on Moozer?
Since I posted my scumread, we just witnessed him parrot a much-stated sus on Bullish (almost feel like my take was copied and taken further) and then sus Wylted the second Whiteflame questions something Wylted did. And then there’s the whole “I think scum is inexperienc- oop, nvm” thing. I’m not inspired.
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@Lunatic
@whiteflame
The character is accurate enough to what happened though, ultimately I don’t like the justification for strengthener, but my own role kind of is a stretch in its own justification imo so I can’t be too overly harsh on that.
This I can agree with. Normally I think of a strengthener as someone who gives someone else strength, not someone who does all the heavy lifting themselves. I’m not surprised at the idea of stretched justifications here either.
Man I’m a bit torn on this claim at the moment, my current thoughts are that it’s likely fake, as strengthener is also a role that is commonly fake
I can agree with this as well.
and I think it’s wierd this character was included in general
This I dont agree with. With how few characters Pie had to work with, I can see him scraping the bottom of the barrel to try and find a character who fits a role.
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I notice when Wylted is town he usually just says shit to see if he can get a reaction out of people and his page 1 feels no different.And he doesn't do this as Mafia?
Not in my experience, no. I’m not sure he’s even privy to this tell of his.
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@Cerulean
This. Is null from Bullish. Isn't it.
I took it as some sort of sarcastic joke, but with whatever the hell he’s doing this DP, I just don’t know.
Im kind of starting to sus him, but I think I kinda wanna let him cook just a bit more. I just don’t know man
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Is it weird to answer a question that my own "slot" asked? It's tough to say for sure, but I think scum would want more softclaims rather than less. Considering that there don't seem to be a lot of "important" characters, the space that scum has for fake claiming might be pretty tight, so getting a gist of what everyone else has would be fairly important for them.
Oh that’s interesting. So instead of limiting their fake claims by it, they could be getting a more accurate idea of their options. I honestly didn’t consider that point.
That leads to a question though: Why give an answer when asking the question? If it is a scheme, I get the sense it can only be for the benefit of a teammate who never softed and now knows a good chunk of the dead characters are taken (since we cancelled the softing and I assume the hypothetical teammate would wait for nearly all of town to soft)
That seems like a lot of effort for only half of the scum team though, so as intriguing as the idea is, I’m not convinced… especially since it would lock the other mafioso into a soft before getting an accurate idea of said options. Yeah now that I think it through, it can’t be the case.
I do think this could reveal that in the nightmare scenario that this is a ploy, Whiteflame and Wylted are unpaired.
There are probably ways of doing it that are tougher for wolves to fake their way through, though. I might take a closer look and see if there's a good way to soft without giving too much away after I finish catching up.
As someone who tried this and failed, good luck with that
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@Bullish
Personally I want to see moozer make it to lylo.
?
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@Lunatic
With Whiteflame it’s that I feel like he’s trying to push the pace of this day phase in a way that’s “permissibly” scummy. I was already concerned with his initial suggestion that we should be careful claiming (said the same thing I did about the 4 questions mafia have) to then suggest a soft claim method that allows mafia a very easily identifiable way to narrrow down claims.
Whiteflame isn't aggressive at all as scum, I'll give you that.
As for the contradiction you apparently see, I'm not reading it like that. The whole point of his idea was to find a soft that didn't reveal a whole lot of information... which would be consistent with his concern about revealing too much information.
I for one think the softing was in theory a great way to limit fake claims, considering how few characters seem to be in BO1's plot, from what I'm reading on the wiki. The only reason we can't really do it here is because there's no good way to split it.
As for the contradiction you apparently see, I'm not reading it like that. The whole point of his idea was to find a soft that didn't reveal a whole lot of information... which would be consistent with his concern about revealing too much information.
I for one think the softing was in theory a great way to limit fake claims, considering how few characters seem to be in BO1's plot, from what I'm reading on the wiki. The only reason we can't really do it here is because there's no good way to split it.
With Wylted it’s more of his thoughts and reactions towards softing and his being willing to freely claim info of his own real, I feel like he was expecting or hoping for town confirmation, when it’s been explicitly pointed out that soft claiming in general is harmful with mafia having a whipping 4 questions. Him softing early doesn’t give me a ton clear for him either, there are obscure enough characters to claim in this theme.
My townread on Wylted is based on other stuff, but on this point I have a thought: Since the softing eventually did prove itself to be a bit much (given your concerns), wouldn’t that also make it pretty effective at limiting scum’s fake claims? If so, why be so quick to offer his alive/dead status if he is scum?
If either of them (Whiteflame or Wylted) knows something we don’t, maybe, but I don’t have any idea what that could be. The only thing I can think of is one of them having a fake claim ready off the rip, but I think that’s unlikely. I think you have one point on Whiteflame in particular (the “as scummy as allowed” thing) but that’s about it. I’ll admit I didn’t care much for his answer to Casey’s question as well- but it’s hard for me to have anything but some kind of townread when the softing play looks like it follows a real thought process and limits himself pretty hard as scum.
If either of them (Whiteflame or Wylted) knows something we don’t, maybe, but I don’t have any idea what that could be. The only thing I can think of is one of them having a fake claim ready off the rip, but I think that’s unlikely. I think you have one point on Whiteflame in particular (the “as scummy as allowed” thing) but that’s about it. I’ll admit I didn’t care much for his answer to Casey’s question as well- but it’s hard for me to have anything but some kind of townread when the softing play looks like it follows a real thought process and limits himself pretty hard as scum.
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Disregard. I’ll just stick with what I said in 76 for now. I’m too tired to think this through any further
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Inclined to put some cautious trust in Lunatic.
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Eh, I don’t think Banana understood the question properly.
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Feel like Banana and Whiteflame’s replies to Casey are a little off. Hm.
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To be clear, no one else has to soft if they don’t want to. I wanted to go through with it but I don’t see a real good way to go about for this game.
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@Lunatic
About finding other ways to soft to limit scum fake claims: the best idea I could come up with was a playable/nonplayable soft. Felt that exposed too much sine some of the more major characters are the playable ones. Bad idea.
I’ll just say that my character also died call it a night.
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no one made their guesses as to who I was hinting at (plan was to read people from their guesses) so I’ll reveal.
The slight townread is in Wylted. I notice when Wylted is town he usually just says shit to see if he can get a reaction out of people and his page 1 feels no different. I notice some fluff from him but it’s not excessive so it’s not a scum tell, which helps his case. As hasty as the townread of Bullish is, it’s peak Wylted.
On the other side is Moozer. He’s had a few posts and all he can say are things that most people have already been saying/agreeing with. The was his answer to Casey’s question, but even that was a no shit sherlock. Slight scumread.
For more on Bullish. Earth lowkey made a point but I don’t think he or I scumread Bullish off it. It looks more like town laziness to me. I dont see how scum draws attention to themselves like that. Fos’ing people who don’t instantly townread you is retarded, however. I almost want to give him a slight townread for the solipsistic thinking, but my main worry is that he might be playing into all of this. Does he just do Wylted’s strats as town? I kinda expect that to be endemic to Wylted. I guess null, but it’s a very flip-floppy, unsatisfactory null.
I’ll add a slight townread on Whiteflame for his softing idea, and a tip of the hat to Casey for taking a page out of my book.
Everyone else is null for now.
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@Casey_Risk
My initial thought is “against.” I get the sense some people are too quick to abandon the idea altogether, instead of just looking for a better way to do it.
Someone in particular really reeks of blend-in behavior from something else in the game.
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@Casey_Risk
I usually observe a bit early in the DP just to get a pulse on things. I’ve found it helps my analysis.
I guess if you want something that badly I’ll say I dont give a shit about Bullish, nothing there sways me either way. There is someone else worth giving a slight townread though.
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@Lunatic
Yeah yeah. Idk man, we gotta find some ways to get activity stirred up that doesn’t revolve around soft claiming. Maybe Austin has some suggestions from playing in MU all the time lol
I can try and think of some ideas. Hold on, lmk know if you beat me to the punch.
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@Shila
And yet, The United States is ranked higher than China in standard of living.
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@Shila
Assuming this to be true, that’s not a sign the city is of high quality.
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China won’t ever overtake us in living conditions
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but I do think I would’ve been able to save townie from themself if I didn’t get lazy.
save one townie*
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