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@ILikePie5
Just noticed your post count. 16,000 is crazy
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I wonder whats the point of an Informed if it doesn't tell you the nature of this hidden aspect.
I think I was given lesser information NP1 bc I’m supposed to be incentivized to stay alive and get more information.
If my current theory about Moozer is correct, there could also be a negative utility /bait aspect, where if I reveal my NP1 information, it helps scum figure out how to get that extra NK, before I get warned that they have said capabilities in NP2.
I base this on the idea that I was told scum doesn’t know their method, not that they don’t know they can get an extra night kill.
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Yeah I can see why Wylted wants Shila banned
Spamspamspam
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@iamanabanana
I seen that, but I am not talking about that. In your head, what was the reason for holding the information? What did you think waiting to reveal it was going to do? Did you think the mafia was going to confess to an extra ability?
No, I did not think mafia would confess to an extra ability. Why is that even a question? My fear was that mafia could figure out how to get the extra night kill.
I did not account for the fact that since we’re not gonna VTNL here, there’s no point in fearing them figuring it since if we mislynch, the game is over, therefore I might as well reveal… Which is why I eventually did reveal said information after that was pointed out to me.
I just asked you a question, you’re the one getting defensive and jumping to these conclusions. Sure they are possible though. I was just asking what is going through your head...
What other reason could you have for asking that question? You’d logically have to argue if I’m scum, I waited because I hadn’t thought of an idea yet, which is bullshit because I’m not fake claiming without both pieces of information.
But since we’re framing rhetorical questions in this way, I’d argue that the question you just asked about if I thought scum would confess an ability is worse here. It’s proof you either severely misunderstand what’s going on here, or are pretending to. My money is starting to go on the former.
Also, I’m going to defend myself when accused; I’m not gonna just let myself be mislynched, especially in LYLO.
I haven't really looked into them. Comments about my character and whiteflames character was a response to the "your character is weak" argument only. Whiteflame pointed out that because mafia get to ask questions about characters available, theres limited things we can accomplish by looking too much into this category.
Sure, but even with that as a given, shaky justifications are a good thing to look into.
You gambled that the kill was between me whiteflame and lunatic, meaning you didn't consider mafia would be worried about a doctor and have motivation to hit outside those targets. I don't see why you wouldn't consider yourself a likely night target, so much that you would gamble making your role completely useless.
They have no reason to hit outside of those targets.
First things first, you are the only player in this game who had not revealed their role while claiming an active role.
Assuming you’re town, you’re a prime target, meaning that if they want to avoid town night actions, Whiteflame and Lunatic are both good options. Whiteflame has more utility being strengthener imo, so he’s more likely than Lunatic.
Assuming you’re scum, then you’re either started the DP bussing Earth, or he’s town.
If he’s town, he’s the most likely target, with Whiteflame and Lunatic both being great secondary targets.
If you’re both scum, Whiteflame and Lunatic are still both fine targets.
Keep in mind you’re also assuming scum doesn’t use PRs that get around town abilties.
All this to say, I was 99% sure I was safe this night, and free to get an extra NP of information. I’m also incentivized to do so, given that my information gets better each night.
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@iamanabanana
Not really your claim, just the choice to withhold the information, I don't understand what it accomplished.
I simply misunderstood the situation with that. Cerulean pointed it out me.
Are you arguing that I withheld the information because I hadn’t made said info up yet? You really think I would fake claim without everything ready?
Furthermore, and comments on the character and justification? I notice that’s lacking from your read.
Why didn't you think there was a protection role?
Where did I say that? I didn’t. Sure, now that no one’s claimed one, it would make sense to believe that now, but in no prior posts of mine did I say that I didn’t think there was a protective role. I pondered a theory and you’re misunderstanding.
Also what did withholding your information actually accomplish?
i already answered this
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@iamanabanana
I don't really like either of their claims....
what don’t you like about mine? Idc too much for Ceruean’s either
I really fail to understand why mharman didn't reveal any of his information and gambled saving information on the hope he wouldn't be night killed...
It wasn’t hope. As you get better at the game you learn to make predictions. Last DP, I had predicted the kill was between you, Whiteflame, with Lunatic only being an outside chance. All three of you had claimed active abilties, so I knew I wasn’t going to be a target.
It was calculated and I got extra information.
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@whiteflame
Pretty much what I gave. He was going to provide information to Weaver and Hudson, but was killed before he could give it out. Had he lived, he could’ve given them valuable information.
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I think the extra NK is a counter to Moozer’s role, so I wonder if the hidden aspect that gives scum the extra NK is on his role.
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@Cerulean
Oh I think I see what you’re saying. We’re screwed if we mislynch anyway, so we might as well reveal the information and help find the right lynch since we’re not gonna VTNL anyways.
I didn’t think about that. My b
NP1 I was told that someone in this game has a hidden aspect to their role.
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@Cerulean
6 players left. If we VTNL, we give them the chance to figure out their extra NK method. If they figure it out two townies die. 4 players left, 2v2 = town autoloss.
The only time we wouldn’t be concerned about it is if we lynch correctly today.
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Alr Cerulean claimed.
I am Friedrich Steiner and I am the informed townie. Pie’s spin on it is that each night phase, I am told something about the game, with increasing usefulness.
The justification is that I was thought to be the last hope for information on Nova 6 and the numbers sequence, but was killed by Alex Mason before I could give the information to Hudson and Weaver.
NP1 I was told something but decided to hold off saying anything to avoid being a target. I’m glad I made the decision because here’s what I got NP2:
Scum has a method of obtaining an extra night kill for one night, but they do not know the method. This is why I said we should not VTNL, if they figure it out, it’s game over.
I am withholding the NP1 result out of concerns the two pieces of information might be related; specifically, I’m concerned if I reveal it will give scum a hint. Do not openly speculate about this.
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@iamanabanana
Posts 68 and 72. Those are my current thoughts on your claim.
Whiteflame and you both have obscure characters. Yours a little more so.
Both of you have good justifications. Yours does have a conflict with Earth’s, however.
Behavior wise, Whiteflame looks way better than you, you look better than Earth, although I’ll need to reread everyone soon. I think the game is between Earth, you, and Cerulean atm
Earth’s character is more expected than yours and Whiteflame’s. But his justification is horrible.
That’s where I stand.
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@whiteflame
Post 120 DP2. Nothing has changed about my behavioral assessment of Earth.
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@whiteflame
Adding onto the previous post
When I’ve modded games, I’ve been extra particular about how justifications for characters and roles fit into my game design. Years ago I hosted NFL Mafia, and caught flak for giving the Bills a bad justification for Doctor.
I think most mods try to give their characters and roles good justifications as well. I’ve seen mods stretch for game design a bit (this would be the game to do it), but you can also just pull a lesser-known character for the sake of a better justification for a role you want in your game.
For this reason, I sus bad justifications more than I do obscure pulls.
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@whiteflame
Ok I typed that horribly
I base my assessment of characters on the wiki. I’d probably have to watch game footage to get a greater idea. I would say yours is the least prominent character if we’re not counting Banana, Banana is a bit behind you.
I have thought about this more since waking up. I think the justification matters more than the prevalence of character, 9 times out of 10.
I take greater issue with Earth’s than Banana’s.
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@whiteflame
I base my assessor characters based on the wiki.
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@whiteflame
Regarding the whole roleblocker/redirector issue, that’s a niggling doubt of mine. It’s unusual to have a Strengthener in any game, let alone one without a town RB. Makes me concerned that scum have more manipulation roles in play.
I think it’s a given scum has an RB or a redirector of some kind, but I disagree it necessitates anything beyond Cop+protective/extra investigation+strengthener for town in the setup. It’s already a pretty strong town corp, especially if there is a protective role, which there usually are in these games
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@whiteflame
I am the RSO on the blackbird during an important mission and guide people to and from locations, basically is my justificationWant to get thoughts on the likelihood of this character being in this game, but he’s certainly a decent fit for the Tracker/Watcher.
I've been perusing the wiki during the game to evaluate some of the claims people have made. Did some surface-level research over there as well. Neitsch is a character I didn't even know about. Odds seems low, since Neitsch plays a very minor role in the plot, if any at all. Yes, he's a playable character, but our characters and justifications seem to be in this game based on prevalence in the plot. Even someone minor like your character plays a greater role, reading up on the missions they were involved in. Incentives to go for a MYLO CC aside, this is the problem I have with Banana's claim.
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@Moozer325
How do you not figure out that’s it’s figurative lol
No one just literally eats shit.
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Also, I will say that we SHOULD NOT VTNL today.
I will give the reason later this DP.
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@Earth
I’m going after Cerulean. It was already the plan from last DP, and I’ve been given more reason to sus him, assuming you and Banana aren’t going for a crazy bus play
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@iamanabanana
For the record, I would’ve preferred you claim after Cerulean this DP. Too late
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@whiteflame
Can Lunatic still talk in the Mason pm? Probably not, but if he can I’d love to hear his thoughts.
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Oh shit it’s going down
I didn’t expect any form of secondary investigative whatsoever. I thought Cop + some protective role + strengthener was OP.
My first thought was that if there is one, Earth’s makes more sense from a game design standpoint because it’s weaker, but the now that he’s added more to his claim it gets harder, because both can be pretty strong.
Earth’s adjustment to his role does make the role more believable imo. I still hate the justification. As for Banana, who tf is Major Kitsch?
I still don’t care for Earth’s behavior, but I’ll admit I have basically nothing to go off of for Banana.
Is it possible that there’s no protective role? I feel like there’d have to be no protectives to make room for one of these extra roles. I’m not sure if it makes room for both. If there a protective and one of these roles exists anyway, I DEFINITELY don’t think there’s room for both.
Wondering if we’re witnessing a hard bus play. If we’re not, then I think Cerulean is the teammate. I still townread Whiteflame.
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@zedvictor4
@Savant
Nazi" has become a metaphor, that can be liberally applied to differences of opinion.
And now we don’t know who the real Nazis are. Perhaps the real Nazis were the friends we made along the way.
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@ILikePie5
We have our hammer. I’m spam pinging you on discord as well cause I know you love spam pings
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Yknow I really would’ve liked to get something more out of Cerulean before we hammered here.
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@whiteflame
@Cerulean
So, my take-away is that I'd prefer to get a claim from either Banana or Cerulean at this point (prefer Banana, though it looks like more people are willing to pursue Cerulean and I would still like to get his reads, hence the vote below), then assuming that information isn't enough to change my calculus, I'd prefer the Earth lynch. I'm not opposed to lynching Moozer and it might end up being the best choice, particularly given how far apart we all are on Earth.VTL Cerulean
Given that we’re set on lynching Moozer now, I’d advise Cerulean not claim at this point. Don’t need to give scum anymore information here.
I would like some more to read him off of, however, so perhaps he can give a set of reads here and be the first to full claim tomorrow. I’ll go second, then anyone else who hasn’t can go after me.
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@whiteflame
That being said, it's a win/draw. If we caught him, great. If not, the confirmation is fine too.
That is true
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@Moozer325
No, he delayed it, because of course he did.
Too late now Moozer. You’re either dead or I’m eating a load of shit tomorrow at this point.
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@Lunatic
@whiteflame
I don’t think we’re even testing Moozer here. I think we just straight-up caught him.
Did he even claimed his character and justification?
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@Earth
You should know that it means nothing if scum defends a mislynch target, especially one that will get lynched anyway.
As someone who did this last time I was scum, the only reason I was able to get away with townreading Wylted knowing he’d get lynched anyway is because he was that obviously town. From Lunatic’s POV (or anyone’s really) you shouldn’t have that going for you.
I’d also like to mention that Lunatic has been widely townread by everyone for his behavior (myself included) so he has no real reason to go for this type of town cred play. Back in Inheritance Cycle I did it to escape a sus that was on me.
Lunatic has neither the motive nor the conditions to go for this, so the incentive for it is basically nonexistent.
The scum slip accusation certainly speaks for itself.
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@Lunatic
Forgot to tag.
Good night to me, good morning to you
Good night to me, good morning to you
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Earths claim is solid kind of, but What are your thoughts on the game right now?
Read up.
Ugh I can’t believe I stayed up late for this. I feel like hammered shit.
Down to lynch either Earth or Moozer before the DP ends
I’m gonna go see what sleep I can salvage
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@Cerulean
I don't think Lunatic simply having a Neighborizer role is reason enough to call him Town without going back and being more thorough. Pockets can happen in neighborhoods. I have played multiple games and written (but never hosted, sadly) a setup with a Mafia aligned Neighborizer.
Thoughts on Lunatic’s behavior?
I'm more willing to believe that Moozer is in fact lynchproof, just because of how risky of a claim it is. As Mafia, you're essentially making yourself the "default" lynch of the Day and hoping that people can come to a conclusion so they don't resort to you. Moozer is not a person who has a strong thread presence, so in that world, he would have some reliance on his partner to make sure another lynch gets pushed through. All of *that* aside, I believe in his reaction to the WyIted kill, unless someone else wants to show me that Moozer is capable of that sort of... "Dumbtell" sounds mean, but something like that, as Mafia.
I don’t think he’s incapable of such a thing. I’m willing to give this particular thing a “null” but instantly concluding Wylted used his power is silly enough to mean someone faking it is quite possible. Moozer is far from one of the top players in this site, but he’s not THAT bad
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A question does need to be asked whether or not Moozer and Earth being scum are mutually exclusive. Last DP I had concluded such a thing based on Moozer sussing Bullsih, and one of my reads had to be wrong.
But here, Moozer doesn’t even seem to sus Earth all that much. He helped get his claim, and then instantly believes it. I’m gonna say, no, they are not.
Also Earth just townreads Moozer for reasons
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@Moozer325
hey look, Moozer finally posted something original. Sure took him some time. I guess I’ll respond to this point of his
Earth: Slight town. He's still in my PoE but I liked some of his page 1 posts. He could have easily targeted me for a Lynch after Mhar said my assumption was slightly suspicious
Mharman: Slight Scum, same reason as Earth, plus he also assumed WyIted was the NK
How can you put “same reason as Earth” and then scumread me while townreading him?
As for the Wylted being the NK thing. I checked in, glanced at the OP and saw wylted died, and then checked the most recent posts in the thread. Lunatic had said something about Wylted being the NK, and I posted my thoughts on the NK in post 9. Then I saw your post, read the OP completely, and the rest is history. If you ask me it’s an easier mistake to make than just assuming Wylted used his role.
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Now he’s refusing to give Whiteflame any reason for his thoughts on Banana and Moozer- which are questionable enough- their early DP2s,
Their early DP2s are null at best*
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Earth- lean scum.
So in DP1, I had a small scumread on him based on what I felt was just kinda flying under the radar. I know he lowposts, but last DP felt a little ridiculous. That being said, I was starting to feel better about him in the night phase (and worse about Whiteflame- lol imagine that), because in the few times when he did post, he often had a compelling point. Looking back- the scumread wasn’t reasonable for the time- I think I just got disturbed by how much he was flying under the radar.
But then this DP happens. Now he’s refusing to give Whiteflame any reason for his thoughts on Banana and Moozer- which are questionable enough- their early DP2s, his justification for Reznov being motion detector is suspect, and his selection of Whiteflame in the out makes no sense.
I’ll leave the first and third points alone because Whiteflame has already argued those, but I don’t think I’ve seen anyone make this second point.
Motion Detector is an informative role. Meanwhile Reznov hijacked Alex Mason’s brainwashing, and directed him to kill three people, tricking Mason in to seeing him when in reality, he had died in the prison escape. I would’ve expected something like a role that does something after death with Reznov, possibly a manipulation aspect, possibly a communication role, like a role that can vote or talk after death, maybe with only one user. The communication side of things didn’t even have to be after death. Since Reznov sacrificed himself for Mason (albeit with an ulterior motive) as protective role may have made some sense as well. “Influencing someone after death” is hardly a justification for an investigative role.
As for the role itself, meh. With the cop being the only investigative revealed, there is room for one more weaker investigative, but it’s not required.
There is one point in his favor I will mention here: His reaction to being pressured and scumread reminds me of last game, where he was town. It’s not enough to overcome the other points, but it’s worth noting. He has that over Moozer I guess.
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Whiteflame- lean town. We’ve gone over strengthener and how justification can be stretched. Thinking about it more it seems like a more reasonable stretch than other stuff I’m seeing.
With regards to his behavior, I feel like he’s pushing harder on Earth than I would expect from scum Whiteflame. In general, his behavior this DP feels like a departure from the “permissibly scummy” version of Whiteflame Lunatic was talking about last DP. I like it.
Strengthening me is reasonable, since Wylted couldn’t have done anything with it and he had a null read on Lunatic at the time. Not what I would’ve done, but it’s within the reasonable range of choices imo.
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Cerulean, slight town. A good chunk of this read is from Casey’s behavior, but Cerulean’s half is fine as well. More fine analysis, same as DP1. Of note this DP are the thoughts on Moozer. I dont agree but I can see the thought process at least. It’s not super compelling for a town read, but it’s at the very least original and thoughtful thought, if that makes sense. Certainly no red flags.
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Moozer- Still scum. I called him out for parroting basically everything last DP, and my points from last DP have not changed. At the start of the DP I saw his whole thing about how Wylted has used his martyr. I expected this to be TMI since no one expected mafia to go after Wylted, so maybe Wylted really did use his martyr, and Moozer had just revealed it, since Wylted wouldnt have been mafia’s NK target. Obviously can’t be the case since people used their actions successfully. That being said, I’m not buying that the situation makes him town. It’s such an easy throwaway thing for him to say.
As far as the claim goes, no I don’t like it. Lynchproof in a game this small is already weird to me, and we also can’t verify it because it ends the DP. It looks like a “nooooo, don’t lynch me );” type of claim. I want his character and justification.
VTL Moozer
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Banana- Still null. That last post of hers was the most I’ve gotten to read her off of all game. I don’t like the read on me, but I don’t hate it. I just explained why it’s wrong, but I dont think Banana paid enough attention to last game to know that. Was she even playing in last game? Idr. Could get POE’d out if I get too many townreads.
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