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@Lunatic
@ILikePie5
@Casey_Risk
@Cerulean
Any of you have a setup ready?
I did not, in fact, get a setup ready in time…
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@Earth
I didn’t mean to tag you in that earlier post. I was gonna include some helpful feedback about the setup there, but decided that would be saved for a different post.
Im gonna switch to my pc to type that out cause I have some very detailed thoughts.
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@ILikePie5
I think you slipped when you said “glad I’m not on the side of it this time”…
You were implying that my “it” (my early DP1 paranoia, a habit of mine) was incorrect, indicating you had some undisclosed knowledge.
I kinda threw there by brushing the thought of that aside.
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@Cerulean
Yeah I overstated my case on you. Somewhere down the line I made a lesser case, but by then no one was buying it, and that made me think I was wrong somewhere.
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@Earth
And yeah, I got tracker/watcher mixed up. I was claiming from memory.
Town could have also done without me being a competitive asshole to Cerulean and Lunatic. Sorry for that everyone.
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@WyIted
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@Lemming
Had a good mafia game recently: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/11997-bo-burnham-mafia-endgame
Outside of that, not a whole lot. I know I've had comp games in overwatch where I popped off and was happy, but that's eh. I could play multiple comp games in a day, so no particular pop-off is special to me.
Kinda scraping the bottom of the barrel here.
I played football and wrestled in my first couple years of high school... wasn't good at either. I was ecstatic after my first win in a wrestling match; so there's that.
Oh here's a good one: When I was in elementary and middle school, my private school used to go to a competition (called an "Academic Festival") to compete against other in-state private schools in various trivia games/other competitions. There was spelling, history, math, Bible knowledge, science, general knowledge, something called "SDK," and speed puzzle solving. Idk why that last one was a part of the competition, nor do I remember what "SDK" was... I just know it's on some ribbons I got from the event. Could be "standard knowledge," at which point my list of events becomes redundant. Idr.
I remember dominating every category, every year in that competition.
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@WyIted
Good idea. I heard about a stock market app that lets you copy the trades the senators and house reps make
Not sure if I want to get into the stock market yet… but it is interesting to me
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@Lemming
I had a love/hate with a Taco Bell I used to work at. Serving customers was nice, free Taco Bell was nice... some nice coworkers.
Place was understaffed and stressful at time, and the store went through 6 different RGMs in my time there... so some real assholes as well. There's been a few shithead coworkers that were fired for on-the-job meth usage. Hated them.
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Yeah, I still can’t give Skipper anything but a townread now. Noobs are gonna noob, what can I say. I did like how he just gave some reads. That’s neat- he’s learning 👍
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And then there’s Barney floating around. I mean earlier I kinda felt like a dick for wanting his claim when he was so busy… but then I had another thought: I’ve seen him update the claims list numerous times… each of those is a time where he at least showed he was skimming the DP, and could’ve noted something tiny about something, but didn’t. I still don’t think he should’ve signed up for this game in the first place, but if he’s gonna spend the time on that, why not say something small in each of those claims list updates? Perhaps he sees it as some duty to show he’s doing something, like he’s compelled or owes something to town, and is setting some limit on himself… I can see him thinking that if he starts doing little reads in claims list updates, he could get carried away and spend more time than he wants
However, whether it’s fair or not, inactives are harder to read, and I understand why Pie wanted him to claim. I wonder if I should’ve said that after Barney responded to my vote on him. I guess town will have to see how active he is DP2 and make that call there
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Thinking about my wagon. Someone on it has to be opportunistic.
It can’t be Lunatic. As much as I hate his reasoning on me, I can’t conclude he’s scum in any way I could slice it. I’d have to believe he’d be faking so much of his reasoning and behavior- an unfathomable amount of it imo.
As for Casey… the thing that bothers me is whole thing about “Mharman’s not on Lunatic and I, that’s a good sign!” And it low key reads as a “not me, don’t read into me!” Type of statement. Almost like a warning to me and a subliminal message to town at the same time. There’s also the fact that she went after my claim, despite saying she townread me.
But to believe she’s scum, I’d have to deny everything else I complemented about her earlier that told me she was town (including her early DP interactions) and I’d have to think hated is fake. I can’t do it. She’s probably town.
As for Pie. I had an early townread on him, but I’m more or less neutral. There’s a few thing that bothers me. He said Barney was skating. Might be some truth to that, but up until now when he finally did stuff, I would’ve said that was a bit of a hypocritical point from him, given how little he did for most of this DP.
It also looks like he’s just copy pasting Lunatic’s logic on me, and I’m not a fan of it
As for that early townread, yeah, there’s still some merit to it at least… that early interaction with Casey and his question to Earth still looks good. Earth wouldn’t tell me anything about how a hated would work, so I can see why he’d ask Casey while being hesitant to say why. It’s a reasonable move
On Wylted: He is the most interesting player in this game from my POV. I was viewing him in a positive light after the Skipper thing, but hold on. I’ve seen a few people say he’s a little slower to jump or push on someone this game. I wouldn’t say that’s true in its entirety, but I can’t deny he feels a little less original in his thoughts on others. Like he’s playing the common narrative.
although- his points on Cerulean and Casey are unique, so maybe not. I wouldn’t say his points on rather of them are all that strong tho.
whiteflame… not currently on my wagon, but was… hm, maybe. But I’m okay with how he’s been playing this game. One thing I notice is the lack of fake contributions…. And I think a lot of what he was doing early in the DP sat well with me. Can’t say I have super strong town case for him, but whatevs. I will say that, on the flip side, one of the reasons I scumread him last game was because I felt the way he jumped on some wagons was opportunistic.
And then there’s Cerulean, who agrees with me that someone on my wagon is opportunistic. He places a lot of that blame on Lunatic though, and I’m not convinced. And if you ask Lunatic, he could be doing some meta play where he’s the one who gets to sit back and accuse others of being opportunistic, when he’s actually the one being opportunistic.
It’s an interesting theory, I suppose. The only real way to gauge it is by looking at who he’s been sussing. Lunatic nah, Whiteflame ok… there was an earlier sus on Wylted as well. Something about how Wylted either misread or ignored something. Can’t say there’s a whole lot of merit to that point specifically… I mean, maybe? Ehhhh meh.
there’s still my earlier thoughts on cerulean at play here. The townread, that is
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I don’t think post #91 is completely fair to Skipper. I wouldn’t say it implicates Casey, but I think it’s real easy to get super aggro on noobs over nothing. I remember I used to defend noobs really hard, and gave them a lot of passes for a lot things, and was right a lot of the time.
I think Banana being scum last game when I have her a noob pass kinda messed with my reasoning in this game to the point where I sussed Skipper over something kinda insignificant.
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I don’t know what I’m even accomplishing asking Skipper that question.
I was reading Skipper’s posts over and over again. could’ve sworn that I saw some scum slip and double triple and quadruple checked it
Skipper: I think me being so immediately open about my role is no longer a helpful tactic
Casey: You weren't really open about it at all. Literally the only thing I know about your role is that you are a boss, like everyone else apparently, and have a role which is helpful to the town. Cool.
Skipper: Oops, I hadn't meant to say "role." I meant side/team
I kept thinking, shouldn’t Skipper know that being open about one’s team is harmful to only scum? Is this is a slip? But in context, this came after he made that whole post about how “he’s town, and the people trying to cast doubts on him being town are mafia trying to be subtle about their accusations”… so is he, for whatever reason, thinking that him talking about being town wasn’t productive? That’s wasn’t anyone’s problem with his post (rather, the anyone who doubts him is mafia part) but I don’t know if he took it that way.
Then there’s the whole Discord chat thing. Wylted asks him if he’s in a Discord chat. Skipper doesn’t answer until Wylted tells him only scum is in a Discord chat. Than he says “no I can’t possibly be in one” and then “silly me for asking that question,” referring to his question of if there’s a scum chat in Discord.
So I thought, shouldn’t he know that there’s no town discord chat if he’s town? Shouldn’t it be obvious to him?
But then the counter-argument: What if Skipper interpreted Wylted’s question weirdly, like he thought Wylted was implying there’s a discord chat for townies that he should be in?
I think the key lies in how Skipper said he isn’t in a chat, “as of yet,” implying that he’d okay getting in one or that he’s expecting to be in one. That tells me he probably did misinterpret Wylted’s question in such a manner.
Noobs are weird. But I don’t know how I can push Skipper if I’m arguing from good faith.
Unvote
Honestly this paints Wylted in a better light for me as well.
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@Skipper_Sr
One question: Do you think it’s helpful for townie to be open about being town?
I know this sounds like a stupid question, but bear with me.
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And there’s still the whole thing about “Earth doesn’t have my discord, wink wink”
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@WyIted
Honestly the Casey interaction helps my point imo.
He made a weird post that was completely oblivious to how scummy it looked, as a response to me simply saying i wasn’t fully convinced therefore I am scum keeping things ambiguous with implications that I won’t say outright… ignoring the fact that he was doing the exact same ringing in his post. Then, when Casey called him out on it, he just dipped. To me, it looks more noob scum anything else
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@Cerulean
Any push I make will look problematic to someone
.
I don’t care. I just gonna give my thoughts
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@Cerulean
And I gave my reasons on Skipper. His noob town stuff looks fake.
Another thing worth noting is I get the feeling mafia spent a lot of time in the shadows, doing little to contribute to town because they want us to turn on each other… Skipper has been online plenty, but has given no thoughts or anything
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I guess my closest guess for a teammate would be Wylted first, Pie second
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@Cerulean
I don’t know who the exact scum team is. I’m thinking Skipper is one, and someone in connection with him
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@Lunatic
I gave plenty of arguments. Don’t even.
I’m not even playing anything. I’m just pointing out your logic and admittedly I’m also just disappointed that you didn’t think about some this shit.
But i am far from crying.
Go cool off.
I’m not even playing anything. I’m just pointing out your logic and admittedly I’m also just disappointed that you didn’t think about some this shit.
But i am far from crying.
Go cool off.
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@ILikePie5
Skipper is in my pool. I’ve been thinking his supposed town slips were a little strange since the start
As for Cerulean, we don’t even if know if what he has competes with what I have
I wouldn’t mind a Skipper push.
VTL Skipper
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@ILikePie5
I was just trying to get the role out quick to get it over with, so town could move on.
Apologies
Apologies
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@whiteflame
I’ve explained everything else, but I wanna touch on this
suggesting wild busses would not be new for scum
I did not, at any point, suggest a wild bus was happening. I refuted a point about one that Lunatic made to Pie.
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@WyIted
Just spit out whatever you’re reading. Unless you really think it’s gonna do THAT much harm… there’s no reason to conceal your thoughts on someone, even if no one really agrees with it
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@ILikePie5
I cannot remember to tag people today
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1) Earth may not have given a fake claim, so you yoloed into saying the most absurd thing possible
Earth literally confirmed scum was given a fake claim…
2) Earth did give you the fake claim and you used it
At which point you’d have to believe JOAT doc, watch, and cop was a fake claim given to me
3) Your character and role is Bowser and JOAT but you are Mafia, and you guessed what roles town would/would not have.
and so I guessed town wouldn’t have three of the most common roles in the entire game? Lol
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The skill and ability of the player also kind of goes with the WIFOM though. I am more likely to believe you are capable of high level wifom for example than a noob or someone who just doesn't do it often.
Also, bro…
This is just a justification for a fear-based ad hom on players you think are good.
gee, I wish I could say “youre a good player, so all your points are invalid because you could be a mastermind engaging in WIFOM” to hand waive away any points I don’t like. Would have saved me a lot of time refuting you
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@Lunatic
To play devils advocate a little bit, I will say my role PM mentions Bowser. I didn't want to read too much into that because if the mod did give that as a fake claim, i'd be shooting myself in the foot by placing too much stock into that, but in the context of what mharman claimed and what I am, I can see the justification making great sense.
So you saw a reason it could work and didn’t consider it, until now…
Bro.
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@ILikePie5
I can’t answer why backup isn’t a role. I will also state that you don’t know what the other town PRs are, or what scum has.
Anyway, I know I’m not lying.
As for Bowser: 1. We are clearly all bosses from the Original Paper Mario. This has long been established. Earth has stated there is a theme split and that mafia has been given a fake claim. I’m willing to think that Earth gave them a fake claim because what they have as is not easily spun as town. Specifically, their characters… I’m thinking Mario and Peach are the scum characters. Could also be party members Mario can add to his team in Paper Mario
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WF’s vote on you struck me as opportunistic, but he did say he was going to explain the post right before this one.
I see some towny things in Whiteflame, personally.
Ya, I don’t like the justification, but Bowser should be in the game. Earth hasn’t revealed anything about fake claims either yet. What links Bowser to a JOAT?
Getting the Star Rod have Bowser a ton of new abilities, and became near invincible because of it. You are free to look up the plot of Paper Mario in the Super Mario Wiki. I think Casey linked it on page 2
I don’t understand this. How do link everything?
Can you be more specific about your confusion?
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@Lunatic
So, what if someone other than me is arguing points about what I would or wouldn’t do as scum? Is that also pure dismissible WIFOM?
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@ILikePie5
I’ve said this before, but just saying WIFOM means so little.
The point about me having a partner is ok I guess, but Cerulean doesn’t strike me as that kind of player
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@ILikePie5
post 239, all’s revealed between Cerulean and I here https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/12026-paper-mario-mafia-chapter-1-dp1?page=8&post_number=239
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Rereading again, just noticed I screwed up the wording of Q3 here
Q1. You have a role that is not exactly one of mine, but it is similar enough to CC. What does this mean?A: Mafia has probably has something that counters your role.Q2. Mafia probably has something that counters your role. What does this mean?A: If I'm scum I would see said role that counters your role.Q3. I probably have a role that counters yours if I'm scum. I can obviously see it. What does this mean?A: I wouldn't think anything that counters your role would be a safe fake claim, because I know my roles would be designed to counter something that I could be claiming, indicating there is a high risk of me being CCed.And what does that mean? It means my claims are legit.
Lemme correct that:
Q3: Lunatic, I probably have a role that counters your if I’m scum. I can obviously see it. What does that mean?
A: it means that I wouldn’t think any role that one of my scum roles would counter would be a safe claim; this is because I know my scum roles are designed to counter stuff that is in the game. Therefore, I’d obviously know any claim my scum roles counters would be crazy, because I’d know there’d be a high chance of me being CCed.
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The pool is Skipper, Pie, Wylted, and Barney. I'll be thinking on them for an hour or two. I wouldn't surprised if I was wrong on someone in my town pool- that's in the back of my mind... Im gonna focus on the scum pool first
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Even if I disagree with his points on me... his perspective isn't as crazy as Lunatic's
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I still gotta give Cerulean a town read, for reasons I gave earlier. I'm gonna give Whiteflame a townread as well. His logic and points are sound, and it doesn't look like he's faking any contributions
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I should clarify that by some of these things, I'm talking about Lunatic's reads on Skipper and Casey.
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Second townie is Lunatic. I can see some of these things from a point of view, and the tunneling is just something he wouldn't do as scum. The CC wouldn't be either.
He can talk about how he's aggressive enough to claim miller, but I just don't see it. Maybe he is, but I still can't picture him doing what he's doing right now if he's scum.
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Gonna reset my town reads and look for those to narrow a scum pool down.
First townie is Casey.
I just can't see the hated claim from her as scum, and I also appreciate how she's been taking her time to evaluate the arguments others around her are making. I like her interactions with me, Skipper, and Cerulean. I think she's asking a lot of good questions at least.
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@Cerulean
Your help would be great too. Almost forgot about you
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@WyIted
Alr cool. Also, the Rs got the house? Also cool.
Alr, I'm getting to work.
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