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@Lunatic
I am just trying to draw an explanation for why you would resort to making such a large "OMGUS" post while addressing its omgus and your being baited, to still allow yourself to be baited in hopes of it not looking like omgus...
The simpler explanation is that I really believed what I was saying at the time… lemme ask: Can you picture yourself, Wylted, or Pie doing what I’m doing as scum?
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My townread are gonna be Pie and Casey. My townread on Pie is still early-ish, but I’ve gotten more confident in my townread of Casey.
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@Lunatic
Yeah I’ve not been playing super consistently in my 8 years in this community… I will admit I’ve made plenty of changes to how I play this game, and still do.
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Alr, I’m not sure where to go next. I think the options are looking at Skipper or Wylted. Skipper for reasons already mentioned, and It think Cerulean does bring up a good point on Wylted. Barney, less so.
Imma wait for Pie to be done with his catch-up before I say anything more.
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@ILikePie5
I’m talking about how I’ve been playing I just after the game starts in DP1. Not everything about my play as a whole.
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@Cerulean
I guess. I’ll back off on you. I’m not fully settled on you, but there’s reasonable doubt on my case now.
Unvote
As for the smidge of towniness that gives me pause, I’ll say that something you said to me earlier was pretty towny. I guess I can see this whole thing from your perspective, too.
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@Cerulean
"Avoiding commitment" would me saying "I still don't feel amazing about Mhar, but I'll unvote for now." I was under the impression that what I said implied well enough what I thought about your posting- that it wasn't amazing, but not bad enough to lay down a case.
Ok, but why not just say the tiny case you had? This doesn’t answer that question.
The rest of your points are fine.
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Honestly I probably should hold off on team theories for a bit. I’m still trying to piece together who i should even scumread at this point
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@Cerulean
I will give you your point about how you’d behave if you were in a team with Skipper. That’s a fair one.
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@Lunatic
Nah, Mharman is a young guy I believe early twenties, and he's coming hot off a town game he did rather well in. This bolsters his confidence quite a bit I think and is leaving him feel a bit invulnerable. Speaking as someone who played like this as mafia a lot after a strong town win where I am placed as mafia next, trying to ride off the success and town reads of the last game by pushing someone super aggressively as scum in the next game. If I hadn't been in this spot before I wouldn't suspect it so much. But maybe I am wrong, I wanna see how this plays out.
This is a ridiculous point tho. If I’m overconfident because of a good town game, it would lead me to be overconfident in bad reads as town too. You seem to think my read on Cerulean is so bad, so why is this not a point in your head?
As for Casey, I would have agreed earlier that she’s kinda riding off her claim for a townread. Since then, I’ve liked how she called out Skipper, and I like how she is at least giving time to what Cerulean and I are saying.
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@WyIted
I still am gonna observe at the start of games tho, I’ll just make a first post to let town I know that’s what I’m doing.
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@WyIted
Please stop doing tha5n the first posts are always awkward but just do them.
Fine.
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@Lunatic
I was picking up on the stuff you were laying down with skipper, because I also think he was laying the noob stuff on a lil too thick. Some of the questions almost seem like he is selling it too hard (asking what "SOP" means for example, that is a fairly common piece of terminology used all over the world, almost anyone who has ever had a real job knows what a "Standard Operating Procedure" is. That and I when he was asking about the pm stuff, a lot of that felt fairly common sense to me and where he over sold it is trying to say "Earth doesn't have my discord information, so I guess I have to be town right? haha right guys? look at silly little innocent noob me hahah!"
THIS. The last sentence anyway, I don’t agree with the SoP point. That whole post about how earth doesn’t have his discord info is what pinged my bs detector.
Even qouting one of Eminem's famous diss songs against Ja rule "Bump heads" (love that song btw, hard af. Almost seems like you are trying to be a badass and intimidate people off your lynch, which if you are genuinely town, you don't need to be doing this. This bravado does much the opposite, and I say that from the perspective as someone who has used this tactic with varying success as mafia before. I don't like it, and it seemed entirely unnecessary.
As I said earlier, I can see why you didn’t like this. I got hint that there was more to Cerulean’s activity prompt on me that meets the eye (something that is true, given that he just talked about how he read into my activity), so I took it as he’s looking for a mislynch on me. I also felt like saying something back to him right away wouldn’t be a good look, so I waited until it looked like someone would at least hear me out. Of course, I interpreted that as part of his plan, when it really doesn’t have to be that complicated. So I took his whole plan as I saw it as some sort of challenge, and got ready and hyped for the Rust 1v1. I did this with Austin a few games ago, if you remember.
But yeah, I did jump the gun a little bit. I think there’s something to what I’m saying, but there are a few decent points I’ve noted. I have a few points and few questions I need answered, and I will back off on the Cerulean if the answers are good.
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@Cerulean
I checked it before I placed the vote. Mhar wasn't online at the time (approximately 16:45), but apparently was online 4 hours beforehand (12:45?), which might have been after the day started (12:35).
Bruh. It rounds down. I was offline for more than 4 hours.
Ok, so maybe I can kinda see why you’d take note of my activity then if you didn’t pick up on that the site rounds down… but one question: why conclude that’s suspicious? Some people like to observe a bit before saying anything. I’ve been doing it my last few games, with the exception of last game because everyone else else was doing it and I got annoyed by that, so I felt like I had to generate activity for me to observe back there.
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I’m go. I’m gonna poke some holes
Ignore the “I’m go.” Bad typo.
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@Cerulean
Ping, tag, whatever you call it. I forgot
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Alright, I can see a few signs Cerulean might be town, or that I’m at very least pushing on too little evidence. I’m go. I’m gonna poke some holes and see how the defense holds up before I’m certain, because so much of it looks scummy to me.
Do you think that's not good enough for a page 2 vote, less than an hour after I'd joined the game? I don't think it's unreasonable to read into activity, especially since you were online before then.
I mean I was online before the game started. I don’t see why that’s worth reading into.
This is just a guess at what I would have done, is it not? Your entire case seems to hinge on me having a master plan which you've gleaned from exactly two posts about you.
I did overstate my case a lot. You didn’t have to be thinking that far ahead. It could be as simple as “I want to get a mislynch on someone, but being committal looks scummy. Let’s hint at someone and see if town makes a case for me to parrot.”
It wasn't meant to be a reaction test of any sort. Let me lay out the thought process:1. Mharman hasn't been in thread even though I would expect him to be.2. Therefore, I'll ping him and place a vote for activity.3. Mharman's posts are so-so and not worth townreading.4. Since I don't have any major scumreads, I'll maintain the status quo (having my vote on Mharman) until something changes my mind.You made three posts from when you joined up until 68, when I said I would keep my vote on you. Can you tell me which one I should have been townreading you for?
I can follow the steps of this thought process until point 4. At that point, if I had no strong scumread, I would have unvoted.
When you keep your vote on someone after getting activity out of them, you’re implying a scumread on them. When I see that, I’m obviously going to look for reasons you might be scumreading me, to see if they make any sort of sense from a perspective that isn’t mine. All I saw was you clearly felt suspicious of no immediate activity, which means absolutely nothing and makes me think you’re looking for reasons.
It’s not that you should immediately be townreading me, it’s that leaving your vote on someone you apparently “don’t have a strong read on” is weird. I feel like this is a disingenuous point.
63 and 64 were reads posts of mediocre quality. Not obviously bad, but hedgy (note: "hedging" as in "playing both sides of a read to avoid committing to either") enough with Casey and Skipper that I didn't feel inspired to unvote.
That’s something I do to showcase my thought process, and it gives out relevant information that others could look at to weigh my conclusions, as well as any conclusions they have made or have yet to make. It also helps me keep track of my thoughts, just typing them out. I guess I can at least see how could misinterpret what I’m doing here, but it really doesn’t mean anything, especially since I’ve been doing it my last few games.
I suppose I could have said that exactly in 68, but I didn't.
So, why didn’t you? To me, it looks you were avoiding commitment more than you were apparently thinking I was.
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some points against my case kinda make
sense… I don’t know the extent of which I should put stock into those.
I’ll think about it while going about my morning
And yeah, I was a little too hyped for the epic 1v1 lol… I should stop that shit and I see why Lunatic was put off by it
and yet, I still think I have somewhat of a case. Cerulean just doesn’t look right to me. At the very least, I’m gonna question some of the points in the defense
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I’ll think more on him tmrw
I need sleep and I prolly shouldn’t have stayed up this late this time
Gn yall
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I know Skipper already looks better than every noob I’ve ever seen and is probably capable of telling guys all we want to hear, but wow it is getting g harder to scumread him after he says stuff like that
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@Casey_Risk
I feel similarly. Banana and Owen were both pretty clearly noob town in their first games. Skipper is clearly a noob, but he's not obviously noob town or noob scum, so I don't really know how to feel about him.
Fair. That’s why he’s not my highest priority right now
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@Casey_Risk
That's a much better point imo. On reread, that's the one thing I really don't like coming from Cerulean.
Btw, this was the point I was making earlier. I may have worded in a way that made it hard to understand… my b if that’s the case
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@Casey_Risk
On Skipper and Cerulean?
Well, what I said. Your thoughts on him have some merits, and I really do not like Cerulean's behavior.
So, noticing how he's accusing me (in the same post you called out) and how Cerulean seemed to be doing a similar subtle accusation in his reply to me earlier, I established a link in their behavior, meaning potential collusion. The logic pipeline is essentially Cerulean -> Skipper for me.
I did however, make note of the fact that Skipper could be town conditioned to overread into me as Cerulean wants, or he could be a teammate sent by Cerulean if he saw no townie was gonna do it. At the time I believed the latter.
As for now? His recent response to you about he understands your points is kinda pointing me in the direction of the former now; nonetheless I will acknowledge that your original case on him does have some points. I guess I'll say he's up in the air for me after that.
One thing: Sometimes I like to think about possible scum team theories and how they fit into what I'm observing. It helps me figure things out, and it's how I got pointed in Whiteflame's direction last game.
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@Casey_Risk
I'm gonna be honest, it feels like you're trying to buddy me here really hard. I never said anything about Cerulean, yet you say that I'm "starting to take a look at some of these things". It's like you're trying to make me think your thoughts were actually my ideas, too, when... no, they were not.
Not my point. I'm not saying they're your ideas, I'm saying that I like how you're questioning narratives the town seems to be forming. Which told me you would give a good look at my ideas, instead of immediate dismissal.
As for the 4D chess point, yeah i don't think such a plan is inconceivable, especially for an experienced mafiauniverse player. I guess you a have a bit of a point here that it is merely a possibility, but I wouldn't count out the idea. What about his behavior looks legit to you? To me, it just doesn't look that real. He kept his vote one me? Why not say why? Wouldn't that still be good for a reaction test? To me, the subtlety just looks like he's hesitant to commit to saying anything. Like something self-preserving scum would do, whether they thought super hard about it, or its more subconscious/instinct.
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@Casey_Risk
I agree that calling you out for inactivity when you hadn't said anything yet is a little bit weird, but he didn't say "Mharman is less active than I suspect." It's weird that you put that in quotes when he didn't say that. What he actually said was, "For someone who was being a little pushy about getting people to join, you sure haven't bothered to show up yet. By all means, come join the thread." Personally, I read his vote as being an activity vote first and foremost. What makes you so sure it was a reaction test?
I'm paraphrasing him. I don't think this is an activity prompt, given that he doubled down on it in his one reply to me.
I'm actually saying it's not a reaction test. I'm saying he's faking one. I gave a reason for that: I just don't see the need for him to be subtle about it. He can say outright he doesn't like something about me and it'd have the same effect. The subtlety is part of the plan. He can call it a test if he gets called out, and he can wait for someone else to make a case on me... which I think he was trying to condition someone to do.
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@Skipper_Sr
Thoughts on what I said? About you and Cerulean.
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I'll add one more point: I'd be a great candidate for such a tactic. Not only can he argue precedent, but a mislynch on me would remove a threat... considering what I accomplished last game.
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I mean sure, yall can argue that being subtle enhances the effect of the reaction test, but I honestly think a straight accusation is a more honest way of conducting such a test. I think the subtlety is more of a safety net so he can play dumb if he ever gets called out.
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@Casey_Risk
Mharman, I also see you and your message and I will respond to it, but I also have the sudden desire for a midnight snack and need to run to Taco Bell before they close. I'll be back.
I haven't had Taco Bell in a while. You're tempting me here lol
Take all the time you need
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@whiteflame
@ILikePie5
@WyIted
@Cerulean
I want to pressure Cerulean. His logic on me is basically just "Mharman was less active than usual, I'm kinda sus." Which he doubled down on by keeping his vote on me, but refused to accuse outright.
1. It's the same terrible logic Banana had on Pie last game.
2. He has a plan behind that looks really good, even if I call it out
3. He doesn't need to be so subtle if this is a genuine reaction test.
Alr Cerulean, game on.
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@Casey_Risk
I mean, I think this conversation between Skipper and me that just started might lead us somewhere, so there's that. Feel free to weigh in on it, if you please.
Sure. I'll give you town cred for calling Skipper out on that.
As for your case on him, some of it makes sense.
The fact that he said nothing in his defense, other than reiterate that Wylted townreads him. Also the fact that his remarks do seem aggressive, albeit passive aggressive. Although I suppose we've all been doing that. Again, a lotta respect to you for having the guts to break the impasse. I should take a page out of your book. I think I will in a moment.
The only point I don't agree with is that townies can never be afraid of being mislynched. To some degree, this is correct... scum tends to invest a little bit more into defending themselves from lynches. The big thing, however, is that I can think of a good reason a townie might want to invest a lot into avoiding a mislynch. Does it apply to Skipper? Idk. I do know that I'm not willing to give noobs passes for bad logic; I learned that lesson last game... again, shoutouts to Pie for making that case on Banana.
One thing you missed though: He talks a lot about others being vague, but then does it himself. I guess we all have, but I don't get the lack of self-awareness on his part.
All in all, you have a semi-decent case.
I won't lie, though. I'm more inclined to believe it because it looks like a post one would make while working connection with... Cerulean!
Lemme apply that page I took out of your book and have the balls to say: I think he's trying to bait an OMGUS from me.
I gotta give him props for the plan, too. I OMGUSed Pie in Villainous Villains, and he saw it. So why not start with some terrible logic ("Mharman is less active than I expect")?
If I give pushback, it's OMGUS. Time to pressure for a claim, perhaps a mislynch. If I say nothing, he continues to sneak diss the whole way, implying his sus on me. He can afford to wait for someone else to accuse me, and knows someone from town will eventually try to "pick up what he's putting down," because he's conditioning town to take real nice close look at me. Then, when someone makes their case on me, he gets to parrot, maybe "add to it" a little.
And if he gets called out for it by someone else? He can fall back on it being a reaction test. If I don't believe because, he doesn't need to be so subtle about such a test, or because it all seems too convenient (both of which I am alleging), he can say my pushback is irrational and spin it all back on me saying that he didn't really think I was scum until I reacted this way- he was merely testing me.
And if town is little slow to accuse me for his parrot, he can send his teammate (who is being townread by a few people) to help imply there's a case on me. It's not his first choice, but if he has to do it he has to do it.
Admittedly, I am aware he can spin one of my points back on me. I've also been hesitant to accuse until now, so what gives? Well, I was hesitant because I know if I counter-accuse, he's got what he wants. In a way, I'm giving him just that- except for the fact that someone else from town is starting to take a look at some of these things- you're kinda my hero for being the ice breaker. I'm gonna trust you.
I agree there's a case on Skipper, but I think Cerulean is more sus.
VTL Cerulean
We'd all much rather get along than fight you
Me and Hailie dance to your songs, we like you
And you don't really wanna step inside no mic booth
Come on now, you know the white boy'll bite you
I'll hurt your pride, dawg, and you know I don't like to
But I will if I have to, with syllable after
Syllable I just slap you, killin' you faster
Than you poppin' pill after little pill of them tabs
Of that shit you on, but if you want it, you got it
You'd bump this shit too, if we ain't diss you on it
But if we lock horns, we can charge harder than Busta (Green Lantern!)
We bump heads with any motherfucker that wants to (yeah)
So what's the deal, where was all the tough talk?
When I walked up to you like, "Ja, what up, dawg?"
How come you didn't say you had a problem then?
When you was standin' there with all your men, we coulda solved this then
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I always feel like somebody's baiting meeeeeeee
And if say who I'll get mislynched
(Who's baiting?)
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@Casey_Risk
I'll say this: You do have a point in that the whole town has reached an impasse.
Do you wanna be the first to say something, or would you prefer it be me? I suppose I've observed enough.
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@Casey_Risk
Mharman - not sure how to feel about him. He hasn't said too much yet, but comparing what he has said to last game, it already feels like he's doing less to try and get the game moving and figure stuff out. Might be reading too deep into it though. Null read for now.
Keep in mind that last game was different in that no one was doing anything early on. If you remember what I said last game, I was annoyed by the fact that everyone else was doing what I've been enjoying lately... sitting back and observing. Which is why I got that party started... no need to do that now.
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@Cerulean
So, what's with the reaction test?
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@whiteflame
I don't think it makes sense to hold this in reserve, so I'll note what may or may not be obvious: both Tubba Blubba and General Guy are bosses in this game
I was thinking antagonists, but bosses are a subset, so this makes sense. Mine is also a boss.
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@Greyparrot
4 cats, 1 dog in my house. I love them all, but I will say I'm more of a cat person
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Not sure if I buy Skipper's alleged town noobslips just yet. On the surface, they look nice, but I kinda get the sense he's leaning a little too hard into being a noob. The thing is, I've seen noob town act extra nooby on purpose just out of fear of getting mislynched DP1 of their first game. I did it in my first game, Philosophers IV.
Null for now. Same goes for everyone else.
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I'm having an early townread on Pie. I like his interaction with Casey, and his question to Earth. It feels like I can see his thought process, which I like.
I guess I'm liking Casey's claim, but I'm not gonna hardlock Casey as town just yet. Mafia were given fake claims after all. Normally this would be a claim too risky for scum, but if it's a fake claim, it may have emboldened her. I don't have any real evidence that this is the case, but it's worth noting.
The reason I buy it for now is that scumreading the claim would require me to think Earth set up the fake claim as bait (or just gave scum a really bad fake claim), and that Casey would fail to notice such a thing as scum... neither of which are great assumptions. Occam's razor is my hero. Plus, others have voiced support for the claim, with Whiteflame saying there may be a pattern. I have two theories as to what he may be alluding to (yall have already voiced one of them), and both of them work well with my character.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
His theory of other minds is so broken that he doesn't understand how to fool people
Playing mafia helps develop this skill lol
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Low tier troll skills
Now please play mafia
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@ILikePie5
I’m pretty sure this is Underdog aka Alec aka some other accounts idr…
From what I understand, he’s not breaking the ToS, he’s just moving to new accounts repeatedly like Wylted did
From what I understand, he’s not breaking the ToS, he’s just moving to new accounts repeatedly like Wylted did
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@RemyBrown
You should try I think
Also, out of curiosity, why do you have a new account every year?
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This is a haiku.
Nothing special, now is it?
Doesn’t need to be.
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There are so many modern technologies/inventions that we take for granted.
Various hygiene products come to mind. I’d hate living in a world without those.
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